Pegasian 7th Panzergrenadier Guard Regiment of the Line

[Shas O Dalyth Montau]

OK so I'm ACTUALLY starting guard after years of procrastinating and a new codex released. so here it is...my beloved doctrines cast aside :'(

Company Command Squad 50pts
Company Commander with Power Weapon
Regimental Standard
Vox-Caster
Missile Launcher
Astropath
Master of Ordnance
X2 Bodyguards
185

Infantry Platoon
Platoon Command Squad 30
Platoon Commander with Power Weapon
Vox-Caster
Lascannon
65
Infantry Squad
Grenade Launcher
Vox-Caster
Krak Grenades
Chimera with Pintle Stubber
135
Infantry Squad
Grenade Launcher
Vox-Caster
Krak Grenades
Chimera with Pintle Stubber
135
Mortar Squad
60
Mortar Squad
60
Platoon total: 455
Penal Legion Squad
80
Penal Legion Squad
80

Leman Russ Vanquisher 155
Lascannon
X2 Multi-Melta Sponsons
200
GRAND TOTAL: 1000pts

The command squads and mortar squads hang back shooting & issuing orders to one another. The command squads use their heavy weaps on whatever is big and left alive after the vanquisher has shot.

The penals outflank

The 2 mounted infantry squads move forward to engage enemy or take objectives as appropriate
------
Please critique as you see fit. I may swap the missile launcher in the platoon command to the company command so that the lascannon has +1BS from the veteran heavy weap operators, but apart from that it is pretty tight. I playtested once with a lord commissar instead of the second penal squad but thought a second squad of penals might be more effecive

[Warptide]

Very good starting block. Interesting choices what with the penal legion and vanquisher. I'd suggest more standard options like vets in chimeras and normal Russes, but totally up to you.  Two things Id point out:

One: you can only have one regimental advisor in a command squad. This means a MoO OR an astropath OR two bodyguards. If you want a second one you'll need a second command squad.  :'(

Two: Kraks On guardsmen are totally worthless. If theyre that close to an enemy vehicle: theyre dead. Period. I enjoyed fielding massive guard hordes, but now they really arent effective. Too many killpoints and negative staying power. Might as well drop ALL the kraks and get an extra chimera.



Best of luck with the Guard! 

[Finn]

One: you can only have one regimental advisor in a command squad. This means a MoO OR an astropath OR two bodyguards. If you want a second one you'll need a second command squad.  :'(

Read it properly; you can have up 1 MoO, 1 OotF, 1 Astropath and 2 Bodyguards in a single Company Command Squad which can make a Company Command Squad a 10-man squad.

Anyway...

If this is a Panzergrenadier theme army, I would suggest using Veteran Squads to increase your damage output and to compensate the points being used in the Chimeras. I think 2 Veteran Squads with 3 of the same Special Weapon and 1 Heavy Weapon to complement the Special Weapons along with Carapace Armor and maybe even Melta Bombs mounted on Chimeras would suffice for your Troop Choices. Then you can spam into your Leman Russes.

[Warptide]

Read it properly; you can have up 1 MoO, 1 OotF, 1 Astropath and 2 Bodyguards in a single Company Command Squad which can make a Company Command Squad a 10-man squad.

By Jove, your right! My sincerest apologies. This will actually change my army a little now that I can take astro and MotF in the same command squad.

[Shas O Dalyth Montau]

If this is a Panzergrenadier theme army, I would suggest using Veteran Squads to increase your damage output and to compensate the points being used in the Chimeras. I think 2 Veteran Squads with 3 of the same Special Weapon and 1 Heavy Weapon to complement the Special Weapons along with Carapace Armor and maybe even Melta Bombs mounted on Chimeras would suffice for your Troop Choices. Then you can spam into your Leman Russes.

I did originally want to go for veterans to make the whole elite-troop panzergrenadier feel, but I've got a Mortar fetish which you may have seen in the couple of squads I've included. And seeing as the only way to get Mortar squads is in an infantry platoon these days I went for the infantry platoon instead. It ends up saving me the 20pt diff between an inf squad and a vet squad and I get to have a squad of mortars rather than just one in random squads.

Kraks On guardsmen are totally worthless. If theyre that close to an enemy vehicle: theyre dead...Might as well drop ALL the kraks and get an extra chimera.

HA if only I could get a whole chimera extra instead of 20pts worth of kraks

I just wanted to have some cc anti-tank option there. anyone else have anything to say about the krak grenade option for an inf squad?

[FrisbeeForLunch]

Purely about the krak grenades: If you want them to have some anti-tank melee option, then Meltabombs on the sergeant are cheaper and more likely to hit something big. Or, seeing as you REALLY don't want guardsmen that close to tanks, if you want something against AV11-type vehicles then a Heavy Bolter is more likely to do your work (or the Multi-laser...)

[General_Dakari]

I'm astonished that no one has even commented that there are wargear points costs clearly posted...

Get rid of individual points costs please.

[Shas O Dalyth Montau]

As you wish Kvatch.

But back on track to krak grenades and such...10 krak grenade attacks at twice the cost of 1 meltabomb attack...surely the ten kraks are better?

[sarnas]

-didn't read the list close enough, and will comment later-

[FrisbeeForLunch]

10 krak grenade attacks at twice the cost of 1 meltabomb attack...surely the ten kraks are better?

Against AV13+ kraks are totally useless, and you have Multilasers on the Chimeras to deal with AV-12.

[Hoarday]

10 krak grenade attacks at twice the cost of 1 meltabomb attack...surely the ten kraks are better?

Against AV13+ kraks are totally useless, and you have Multilasers on the Chimeras to deal with AV-12.

Has everyone here completely forgot that grenades always hit back armour? Krak grenade spam on guardsmen is a pretty good choice. Thats alot of S6 hits that are typically going to be against AV10. There's only 2 tanks in the game it can't hurt, Raiders (which will be easy prey to that vanquisher of Anti-Tank doom) and Monoliths (Which are easily avoided). Almost every other tank in the game has a back armour of 10, or if they're REALLY lucky, 11.

[Shas O Dalyth Montau]

Hey Kraks are better than I thought!

[FrisbeeForLunch]

Oh yes, I did forget! Thank you for pointing that out.

Anyhow, surely the Multilasers you already have can deal with lighter vehicles and your Vanquishers take on harder targets? Anyway, perhaps upgrading one or two squads per platoon would be alright then,

[Shas O Dalyth Montau]

well it's just the two inf squads in the whole list that have the upgrade so that's fine

anything else to say guys?

[raiza(archer)]

Deep strike tactic I know how to do but I do not know how to perform the tactic on foot

[knightperson]

Deep strike tactic I know how to do but I do not know how to perform the tactic on foot

You basically can't, but why would you want to? A foot-slogging assault squad (which they aren't but might as well be based on their threat range) either has to be able to cross the 18 inch boundary (the threat range of generic units) or be tough enough to take a turn of rapid-fire before making their own attack. Jet Pack infantry is more mobile than Infantry, but they can't close with the enemy any faster. I suppose you could kit them out with 2 shield drones a piece and make them pretty seriously tough, but that defeats the purpose of having a really cheap suit.

Think of the TL flamer crisis suits like Flamers of Tzeentch or a few models that represent a single-use orbital bombardment. I was about to say that the Daemon version is far more effective and cheaper, but they're actually the exact same price if I did the math in my head right. Which is better? I think it's surprisingly close. Crisis suits have larger bases, which makes the deep strike slightly riskier, so slight advantage Tzeentch. Tau can have a reroll of the scatter within LOS of a devilfish, while Tzeentch can have no scatter but only within 6 inches of an icon, so we'll call that one a tie. Crisis suits will wound more against most targets unless the target is T6 or more, but Flamers of Tzeentch bypass armor saves: too close to call. For surviving the return-fire or assault, crisis suits have more wounds and a better save, but the Flamers' save is invulnerable and they're Fearless: again too close to call. Melee stats are similar (as in lousy in both cases) with crisis suits having a better strength but flamers having a better initiative. Since the initiative difference is irrelevant against most armies, I'll give that one to the Tau by a nose.

In my opinion, it comes down to what you're fighting. Against Space Marines the Daemons will do better. Breath of Chaos will kill a lot more marines by getting around their armor save. 3/4 wound but 1/3 unsaved is 1 kill for every 4 models under the template (TL flamer), while 1/2 wound and all unsaved is 1 kill for every 2 (breath of chaos). Also, the Daemons might survive against powerfists, melta guns, or lascannons. Against a horde army that doesn't get a save against a flamer, the crisis suits are going to win decisively. Guardsmen, Tyranids, or Eldar pathfinders will die on rerollable 3's for 8/9 of a kill per model while the Daemons will still only get 1/2 a kill per model under the template.

Sorry about the mathematical ramble there, but the comparison ended up being more complicated than I thought it would be when I started writing it.

[Scoutfox]

If you really want them to bound up to flame you can hide them behind an advancing devilfish or a gun drone line for cover. They are good at protecting the fish from close combat, cause any assaulters need to bunch up to attack it in hand to hand making them vulnerable to flaming. The gun drones are nice cause they can bound away during the shooting phase and in front of the suits in the assault phase granting cover to the XV8s. Footslooging I think only works if you set them up like I did. I would never walk a unit that had nothing but flamers.

You can also use them defensively and cover areas you think the enemy is going to outflank or deep strike in. If you have a home objective they are good fire support for keeping it clear of enemies. Some times you have to let the enemy come to you for the flamers to be useful. You can set up distraction units that outflankers will try to go after and then torch the enemy when they show up.

[Colonel Marksman]

I was rather shocked to find out that, if you hit at least 5 models with 3 suits armed with flamers and give them plasma and a multi-tracker, they do more cost-effective damage than Fireknife.


Assuming there's no cover save and 3 suits armed identically, on average you should get this:

Fireknife (Plasma/Missile/Multi) - 186 points
GEQ    - 5 wounds, about 25 points
MEQ   - 3.33 wounds, about 53 points
Orks   - 5 wounds, about 30 points
TEQ     - 2.09 wounds, about 84 points
T6, 3+ - 2.17 wounds, variable points
T3, 4+ - 5 wounds, about 55 points



Assuming you hit at least 5 models each with 3 identically armed suits on average you should get this:

Hot Knife (Flamer/Plasma/Multi) - 162 points
GEQ    - 13.17 wounds, about 80 points
MEQ    -   5 wounds, about 80 points
Orks   - 13.17 wounds, about 80 points
TEQ     - 2.92 wounds, about 116 points
T6, 3+ - 2.67 wounds, variable points
T3, 4+ - 8 wounds, about 85 points



Fireknife can only kill 3.33 Marines a turn in rapid fire range; Flamer+Plasma kill 5. Even against Marines, this is better for the most part turn for turn (of course the Fireknives have more range though). I've used this set-up with a Commander and 2 Shield Drones. They are surprisingly very effective against many kinds of enemies. They even survived a few games to the end, taking on multiple units.

Flamer + Fusion is very risky, but cheap and flexible and I've used that effectively as well.



As for deploying them, as others have said Deep Striking them behind a unit, notably the Pathfinder's Devilfish, and running them behind cover in some way if you don't want to play the risk. I do; I set them around 7" away from my target unit, sometimes 5-6" if I'm feeling lucky.

Another key thing is to charge after you shoot not jump away. Unless you can manage to get completely behind difficult or impassible terrain, you are going to get assaulted anyway. Your best chance is go on ahead and move into combat, denying your opponent that +1 A for charging and giving yourself +1. If it's getting hit hard by flamers anyway, you should have a decent chance with your suits against what's left.

[Scoutfox]

I wouldn't just charge anything you are shooting at to deny them the chance to get +1 attacks on you. It really depends on the unit. If you have a chance to tie them up in combat, go ahead and charge, but if the enemy unit is good in close combat and may take out your suits don't charge. That way the opponent has to take his turn and charge you, otherwise you charge he kills you and then goes after another unit his turn.

[Colonel Marksman]

I wouldn't just charge anything you are shooting at to deny them the chance to get +1 attacks on you. It really depends on the unit. If you have a chance to tie them up in combat, go ahead and charge, but if the enemy unit is good in close combat and may take out your suits don't charge.

Anything you can reasonably point a flamer at, a Battlesuit unit can tie up in combat. Anything that has flamers as a noted weakness can be defeated by Battlesuits in combat (after taking a wave of hits of course).