Author Topic: Do we have an Ork V Tyranid Tactia?  (Read 1 times)

crazedmongoose2003

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Re: The Invasion of Gaza..........yet again......
« on: January 07, 2009, 02:24:38 PM »
Has anyone here actually been to Israel?

For everyone who does not support Israel 100%, here are the facts.

1) Hamas is a terrorist organization
2) "Israel exists and will continue to exist until Islam obliterates it" (Part of the Hamas Charter)
3) Most Palestinians support Hamas because they fund social welfar programs.
4) Why do they fund social programs? I thought they where terrorists? Well terrorists aren't stupid, they know they need fresh recruits since every suicide bombers don't have a very long life expectancy.

The "Terrified" Palestinians could take things into their own hands and get rid of Hamas, but they think they need Hamas to repair the damage of Israeli attacks, which wouldn't be occurring if Hamas didn't provoke them.

Israel clings desperately to a tiny strip of land on the coast of the Mediterranean. They where given this land in ancient times and it is rightfully theirs, but the Islamic extremists refuse to grant them this small area. Why? Mostly because of the common human emotion called greed.

In summary, the Palestinians are so possessed by hate that they will drive themselves to extinction to destroy Israel. Israel MUST defend themselves by striking back at Hamas, but they are handicapped by other nations, namely those of the U.N. meddling in their affairs. Everyone loses their head when and Israeli missile kills a civilian, not realizing that the only way for Israel to win is for them to kill everyone, man woman, child, everyone. This are only two ways this war could end: One side is erased from existence, or the end times arrive and none of it matters anymore.

If you do not support Israel because innocents are killed in their attacks, then perhaps you should realize that there are no innocents.

If you support Hamas, then you are supporting a terrorist organization. Hopefully nobody here actually supports Hamas.

Thanks for not reading the last 10 pages.

Oh also fyi almost everybody outside of the US, and most people inside the US, sympathizes with Palestinians, welcome to the civilized mindset.


btw off topic and whatever, but personally TO it fills me with great pride to see the public opinion in this thread turn so sharply against Israel since the opening of the thread. Reality and basic human decency is carrying through the day.

Offline KingWinter

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Re: The Invasion of Gaza..........yet again......
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2009, 03:41:37 PM »
Has anyone here actually been to Israel?

For everyone who does not support Israel 100%, here are the facts.

1) Hamas is a terrorist organization
2) "Israel exists and will continue to exist until Islam obliterates it" (Part of the Hamas Charter)
3) Most Palestinians support Hamas because they fund social welfar programs.
4) Why do they fund social programs? I thought they where terrorists? Well terrorists aren't stupid, they know they need fresh recruits since every suicide bombers don't have a very long life expectancy.

The "Terrified" Palestinians could take things into their own hands and get rid of Hamas, but they think they need Hamas to repair the damage of Israeli attacks, which wouldn't be occurring if Hamas didn't provoke them.

Israel clings desperately to a tiny strip of land on the coast of the Mediterranean. They where given this land in ancient times and it is rightfully theirs, but the Islamic extremists refuse to grant them this small area. Why? Mostly because of the common human emotion called greed.

In summary, the Palestinians are so possessed by hate that they will drive themselves to extinction to destroy Israel. Israel MUST defend themselves by striking back at Hamas, but they are handicapped by other nations, namely those of the U.N. meddling in their affairs. Everyone loses their head when and Israeli missile kills a civilian, not realizing that the only way for Israel to win is for them to kill everyone, man woman, child, everyone. This are only two ways this war could end: One side is erased from existence, or the end times arrive and none of it matters anymore.

If you do not support Israel because innocents are killed in their attacks, then perhaps you should realize that there are no innocents.

If you support Hamas, then you are supporting a terrorist organization. Hopefully nobody here actually supports Hamas.

Ah, another post from you to pick apart.
Lets see...

"Has anyone here actually been to Israel?"

Have you? And I am going there in 2 months time.

"For everyone who does not support Israel 100%, here are the facts."
Opinions are not facts, even if you pull them from your bum.

"1) Hamas is a terrorist organization"

Sure. Why not? Terrorists, freedom fighters, potato, potatoe. From their actions, Hamas, the IDF and the Israeli government are terrists.

"2) "Israel exists and will continue to exist until Islam obliterates it" (Part of the Hamas Charter)"
 Full quote: "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." Also, this refers to the current State of Israel. Not the Israeli(Jewish) people.

3) "Most Palestinians support Hamas because they fund social welfar programs."
...sigh...source please...though I would never see one...
There are quite many reasons that many Palestinians support the Hamas. Perhaps it got something to do with them being the only defense they have against Israeli military aggression. And Hamas is also far, far more than just a military organization. Many of the Palestinian refugees I've been assisting have explained many reasons for their support. They build infrastructure, schools, orphanages, universities, handing out food and water to the starving population, risk their lives smuggling supplies (and weapons) through their tunnels, fund and run healthcare centers, police forces, and so very much more. Why wouldn't one support someone who keeps you alive?

"4) Why do they fund social programs? I thought they where terrorists? Well terrorists aren't stupid, they know they need fresh recruits since every suicide bombers don't have a very long life expectancy.
"

Where is the logic in this? "Thanks for giving me and my family food, shelter and education. I'm off to blow my self up now. Kthxbai."
Why does anyone fund social programs?

"If you support Hamas, then you are supporting a terrorist organization."
I support many of the programs run by Hamas. Well, herp, derp, bring on the Guantanamo express and get me.

Offline Boneguard

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Re: The Invasion of Gaza..........yet again......
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2009, 07:27:05 PM »

Many of us likely do the same. When the Soviet Union occupied Afghanistan, where did our sympathies lie? After 9/11, did our opinion of that country change?


I'm just a bit curious here...why is always 9/11 blamed on Afghanistan?
The perpetrators were Saudi...their leader is Saudi and large parts of the "command" section is Saudi.

Why doesn't Saudi Arabia get any of the blame?

Because Saudi Arabia is a big business partner/friend of the USA, maybe.
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Offline Midnight

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Re: The Invasion of Gaza..........yet again......
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2009, 08:27:44 PM »

Many of us likely do the same. When the Soviet Union occupied Afghanistan, where did our sympathies lie? After 9/11, did our opinion of that country change?


I'm just a bit curious here...why is always 9/11 blamed on Afghanistan?
The perpetrators were Saudi...their leader is Saudi and large parts of the "command" section is Saudi.

Why doesn't Saudi Arabia get any of the blame?


I'm pretty sure it's because that for the most part, people were told that the Taliban in Afghanistan was responsible/hiding Bin Laden/etc., and the Saudi element covered up to a high degree, and 'softened'. Since I wanted to know if perceptions changed as a result of that, I didn't go about correcting the inaccuracy, since that specific inaccuracy wasn't relevant to perception in the context of my question.

crazedmongoose2003

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Re: The Invasion of Gaza..........yet again......
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2009, 06:25:02 AM »
@King Winter: That picture is up to interpretation. His father said that he was used as a shield. How can his fathe know what the Israeli Police were doing? Is he a mind reader? That paper was dated in April 2004. YOu call my source old and I'll call yours old.
If you took notice of the tense I used in that article it was the Past tense. I stated "Hamas, or whoever, has used UN schools as an immunity ground to launch rockets and mortars from". They would use them again if they can easily waltz into a United nations school.

I think that a multi-national force should control the borders between the two. They should allow aid and supplies in as per Hamas's needs, and prevent arms being smuggled into Gaza as the Israeli government wants. This should apply to all borders, even Egypt's, to allow aid to go in but not weapons. Israel has stated they will not attack unless provoked, so any worries of Israel secretly planning to suppress arms going into the Gaza Strip so they can dominate can be forgotten.

I ask this question how would you react to your government if they provoked and attacked a stronger neighbor when we all know that they will retaliate, would you condemn your own government? or condemn the other state retaliating? No matter how big the retaliation is.
It is like charging a person for murder when they act in self defence. In law today we allow people to act in self defence with what force they deem necessary. They did it in WWII, and many other conflicts since.

If the other government was a historical invader who chased us out of our homelands, treats us as second class citizens, regularly bypasses our sovereignty to kill key public officials, and has confined us to a hopeless ghetto? A foreign government who, whether in peace time or war, regularly conducts raids, civilian kidnappings, sieges, using rubber bullets to shoot child protestors...

Look, I'm not defending Hamas' rocket attacks on Israel, I don't think anybody is. But at the end of the day the Gazans are acting as any reasonable third world oppressed people would act, and being punished ruthlessly, generation after generation, for it.

Offline KingWinter

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Re: The Invasion of Gaza..........yet again......
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2009, 07:36:32 AM »
@King Winter: That picture is up to interpretation. His father said that he was used as a shield. How can his fathe know what the Israeli Police were doing? Is he a mind reader? That paper was dated in April 2004. YOu call my source old and I'll call yours old.
If you took notice of the tense I used in that article it was the Past tense. I stated "Hamas, or whoever, has used UN schools as an immunity ground to launch rockets and mortars from". They would use them again if they can easily waltz into a United nations school.

I think that a multi-national force should control the borders between the two. They should allow aid and supplies in as per Hamas's needs, and prevent arms being smuggled into Gaza as the Israeli government wants. This should apply to all borders, even Egypt's, to allow aid to go in but not weapons. Israel has stated they will not attack unless provoked, so any worries of Israel secretly planning to suppress arms going into the Gaza Strip so they can dominate can be forgotten.

I ask this question how would you react to your government if they provoked and attacked a stronger neighbor when we all know that they will retaliate, would you condemn your own government? or condemn the other state retaliating? No matter how big the retaliation is.
It is like charging a person for murder when they act in self defence. In law today we allow people to act in self defence with what force they deem necessary. They did it in WWII, and many other conflicts since.

Indeed, you may call my source old. Because it is. It provides another view on the "human-shield" discussion. It is a proof of IDF troopers using civilians as human shields. It's still a war crime, even after 5 years. (And just so you are aware, posting links from the IDF propaganda-machine isn't actually a credible source. So that video would be up to debate as well. You don't see me linking to Fox news as a source, do you?)

And aye, you used past tense...after editing your post.

Also, I can agree to put an multi-national force to protect Gaza. Though, that would never happen, considering Israel's and America's power in the UN-concil.

Lets see. Your comparison is flawed.
In the case of attacking/retaliation I'd probably ask the question: "WHY do they attack us?" Could it have something to do with the horrid and inhuman ways we treat them in their everyday life? Could it be because we refuse them travel to their workplace, hospitals ans schools. Could it be because we have stolen, burned or salted their fields. Could it be because of the constant terror from settlers, and the grave consecquenses if they defend themselves?

It would be like charging you for murder when you act in self defense. And in the sense of the person trying to kill you had his house burned down, family murdered and himself tortured and tried to kill you because of this.

Waaghsteve

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Do we have an Ork V Tyranid Tactia?
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2009, 09:38:47 AM »
Hey all, I was fighting Tyranid for the first time the other day with my SM army but as I was playing I thought to myself if I was using my Orks I dont think I would of stude a chance. Is there a Tactia for dealing with them?

Offline SILKiam

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Re: Do we have an Ork V Tyranid Tactia?
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2009, 10:46:16 AM »
I'm afraid I don't know too much about dealing with Tyranids - it's been years since I've even seen them on the table top!!

All that I could advise would be dealing with the two main types - Swarm and monsters.


Offline IVEATCH

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Re: Do we have an Ork V Tyranid Tactia?
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2009, 01:50:20 PM »
I play both armies.  As an Ork player, your mightiest weapon against "da Bugeyes" monstrous creatures is the Power Klaw.  You should have one in every nook and cranny of your army.  A big mob of 30 boyz (with one of them being a Power Klaw armed Nob) should take down even the toughest Carnie in two or three turns.  A Hive Tyrant with three Tyrant Guard is a different matter.  The mob will need help on that one.

Look out for Genestealers with Scuttlers outflanking you.  This is one of the more effective bug tricks you'll see.  A unit like this will tear right through any Lobba Ork units or Grot Bomb Launchas placed to close to one side or the other of the backboard.

Swarm armies are actually a little tougher for Ork Hoard armies to deal with than the typical NidZilla army.  Ripper swarms can be nasty.  Torch them with Burnas.

 
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Offline scar face

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Re: Do we have an Ork V Tyranid Tactia?
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2009, 05:17:18 PM »
I don't tend to have a problem with the monsters and most of the 'nid horde (10 nobz with PK's and big choppas go far), its the 'stealers I find a problem. A solution to that is lootas. With their high rate of fire, they can penetrate any genestealer's armour and provide enough fire power to scythe down the broodlord.

I reccomend putting your lootas in cover in the center of your deployment area, as 'stealers with scuttlers or a broodlord can move in from the sides, fleet and assault. (the broodlord's unit misses fleet though, but gains outflank/scouts for free)

Hope that helped,

scar.

Waaghsteve

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Re: Do we have an Ork V Tyranid Tactia?
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2009, 05:47:49 PM »
Thanks for the handy advice, I just got to make sure if I use my lootas to not put them in area tarrain if I can. Dont want any Lictors poping up lol

Offline scar face

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Re: Do we have an Ork V Tyranid Tactia?
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2009, 07:37:43 PM »
Thanks for the handy advice, I just got to make sure if I use my lootas to not put them in area tarrain if I can. Dont want any Lictors poping up lol

On a separate note, lictors aren't all that great. if they assault a unit of basic eldar guardians, the lictor, an average will kill about 1.1 guardians. Then, on average, the guardians will have a 50/50 (-ish) change of killing the lctor back. Not great.

However, that could change in the new 'nid codex.

Also, you may want to try a shokk attack gun with your lootas for extra warrior/'stealer/swarm killing fun.

scar.

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Re: Do we have an Ork V Tyranid Tactia?
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2009, 02:22:45 AM »
Burnas in a looted wagon, or skorcha buggies are great for roasting nids, especially genestealers. The Orks don't have any good units for taking them down in hand to hand, so shoot the klkn out of them.

If he's running a swarm list, take out the synapse creatures and force the small ones to flee.

Always be mindful of any units near area terrain, as lictors can distract a unit just enough to get some other unit bye their line of sight unmolested.

Tankbustas work very well against the monstrous creatures, since the nids don't have tanks and the glory hog rule doesn't come into effect. Tankhammers are very good at putting wounds on fexes and tyrants.

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Re: Do we have an Ork V Tyranid Tactia?
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2009, 10:05:13 AM »
One unit that has caught my eye recently is shoota boyz in battle wagons. If I was going to be facing an army of tyranids, and the innevitable outflanking genestealers then this is what would be number one on my list:

20 Orks: 17 Orks with shootas, 2 Orks with big shootas, 1 Ork Nob with power klaw, boss pole and slugga = 170

Battle Wagon: 4 big shootas, armour plates and red paint job = 135 points.

Stick it in the centre of your deployment zone where it has good line of sight to pretty much anything that will be out flanking, drive up to an out flanking unit of genestealers and shoot the klkn out of it.

Or, alternatively, if Outflanking genestealers are going to be a problem, stick two lots of 20 grots on your flanks as you march up. Keep them within 1" of the edges of the table in a nice long line and watch as the genestealers have to come on in their own table edge, effectively.

Offline Nox

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Re: Do we have an Ork V Tyranid Tactia?
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2009, 02:03:05 PM »
20 Orks: 17 Orks with shootas, 2 Orks with big shootas, 1 Ork Nob with power klaw, boss pole and slugga = 170

Battle Wagon: 4 big shootas, armour plates and red paint job = 135 points.

Don't forget (as of the last Ork FAQ) it is legal to build Shoota Nobs with a PK, Boss pole and Big Shoota. :)

That would give you 7 total big shootas in that build.
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Offline spacecooky

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Re: Do we have an Ork V Tyranid Tactia?
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2009, 02:28:48 PM »
20 Orks: 17 Orks with shootas, 2 Orks with big shootas, 1 Ork Nob with power klaw, boss pole and slugga = 170

Battle Wagon: 4 big shootas, armour plates and red paint job = 135 points.

Don't forget (as of the last Ork FAQ) it is legal to build Shoota Nobs with a PK, Boss pole and Big Shoota. :)

That would give you 7 total big shootas in that build.

That's not correct, as you're allowed a maximum of 2 big shootas for 20 boyz. If you shift it to your Nob, you'll lose one for the normal boys

Offline Thor

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Re: Do we have an Ork V Tyranid Tactia?
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2009, 02:32:35 PM »
You can't have 2 big shootas on the Boyz and then one on the Nob also, not at 20 Boyz. I assume that's what you're saying? The FAQ states the Nob can upgrade his weapons before the Boyz get shootas so that he can get a PK or big choppa. The Nob however can not get a big shoota just by being a Nob. I know what you're saying, Nob replaces choppa with PK which leaves him a slugga to replace for a big shoota. However, the catch being that you can only get a big shoota for every 10 Boyz. At 20 Orks that's 2 big shootas, no matter how you work out weapon swapping, because the Nob does not himself have a big shoota upgrade option.

Offline Nox

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Re: Do we have an Ork V Tyranid Tactia?
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2009, 03:25:27 PM »
Sorry I went brain dead for a sec and forgot the 1 in 10 limit applied to the Nob as well. :P
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Offline BigToof

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Re: Do we have an Ork V Tyranid Tactia?
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2009, 02:33:15 PM »
WaaghSteve:
Just for my two cents:
I have also found that Tyranids tend to run either as Nidzilla (a lot of MCs) or Horde (lots of Guants).
What is distressing for many people is that Carnifexes (the backbone of Nidzilla lists), can be made into assault or shooty monstrosities, and it can be daunting to deal with them.  But in the end, remember that Shooty Carnifexes rarely have more than a few attacks (think of them like a big Dreadnaught), and thus can be brought low with PK.
Also, they can be either 3+ or 2+ save MCs, so it is important to figure out which ones you have a prayer of hurting with shooting (2+ MCs are much more durable).
Hive Tyrants (the other MC flavor) are also fairly tough, but are S6 creatures, so in the end, they're killing normal boys pretty well, but you don't have to worry about them instant killing your Nobs.
The Tyranid Codex is rather interesting in that there are a LOT of upgrades available to the many broods, and it is difficult to tell what each group has been upgraded with.  Just be aware of a few nasty ones (I usually mentally note these for early destruction):

1.  Feeder Tendrils
These must go.  Absolutely.  They provide the unit (and units near them within a small radius) the USR of Preferred Enemy.  Yes, even the MCs.
2.  Warp Field
People may not tell you, but it is a pretty nasty 2+/6+ upgrade, so be careful.
3.  Leaping
Leaping nids will usually hit you first.  With fleet, they have an effective 24" charge range (if they roll well), so it's often going to hurt.

The Tyranids have a few other nasty abilities but they are mostly of things to note:
The Horror, which forces a Ld Check before you assault them (not good for Nobz squads w/o an IC), and as always, flesh hooks (which give them assault grenades).

That's all that comes to mind immediately.

But really, play to your opponent rather than his list.
Look for weaknesses, especially in deployment.
Tyranids rarely have an easy time with Mech (kind of like Orks surprisingly), and can be outmaneuvered.  The smaller guants can get in the way of things (and cover objectives), but they're not much better than guardsmen in assault.  The Big MCs are scary and huge, but really, you have PK.  Herding smaller Nids by Tank Shocking is also fun, as they don't really have much that can hurt vehicles (just don't try to Tank Shock an MC).  Apply Skorcha as necessary once they are clumped up.
Oh, and a word on synapse:  A number of creatures generate this controlling field, but once they are taken out, the smaller guants will have to make some pretty hefty checks to act normally.  Otherwise they will mill around.  Most decent players will overlay Synapse fields, but it's always a comforting sight to watch that big horde of guants that were about to hit your lines mill about sniffing the scenery.

Best,
-BT

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Re: Do we have an Ork V Tyranid Tactia?
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2009, 02:53:44 PM »
Just wanted to say nice reply BigToof and a fungus beer well earned. These are the type of responses I like seeing.