1500 Points Allround

[Ithorion]

Hey guys,

I recently found this page and scrolled through several Armylists. To my suprise they look completely different in most cases to what I am used to playing and what I am used to see around here. I think one reason might be the international flavour of this board here. Thats why I wanted to post the list I play pretty successfull. I just ate Wolves last weekend. In my opinion the List is pretty strong, not totally maxed out but hard stuff, and as I said differently to most I see here.

Feel free to critizie and maybe give me some new ideas.

***************  1 HQ  *************** 

Commander
- Shas'el
+ - 1 x Cyclic ion blaster
   - 1 x Plasm rrifle
   - Targeting array
   - Hw. Blacksun Filter
   - Hw. DC
   - Hw. Multi-tracker
   - Stimulanti injector
   - 2 x Shield Drone
 - - - > 143 points


***************  2 Elite  *************** 

Crisis Team
+ Crisis
   - 1 x Missile pod
   - 1 x Plasma rifle
   - Multi-Tracker
+ Crisis
   - 1 x Missile pod
   - 1 x Plasma rifle
   - Multi-Tracker
 - - - > 124 points

Crisis Kampfanzugteam
+ Crisis Teamführer
   - 1 x Missile pod
   - 1 x Plasma rifle
   - Hw. Blacksun Filter
   - Hw. DC
   - Multi-tracker
   - 2 x Shield Drone
+ Crisis
   - 1 x Missile pod
   - 1 x Plasma rifle
   - Multi-Tracker
+ Crisis
   - 1 x Missile pod
   - 1 x Plasma rifle
   - Multi-Tracker
 - - - > 224 points


***************  3 Standard  *************** 

6 Firewarrior
 - - - > 60 points

6 Firewarrior
 - - - > 60 points

10 Kroot
 - - - > 70 points


***************  2 Sturm  *************** 

5 Pathfinders
+ Devilfish
   - Smart missile system
   - Targeting array
   - Multi-tracker
   - Disruption pod
 - - - > 180 points

5 Pathfinders
+ Devilfish
   - Smart missile system
   - Targeting array
   - Multi-tracker
   - Disruption pod
 - - - > 180 points


***************  2 Unterstützung  *************** 

Broadside Team
+ Broadside Teamleader
   - Smart missile system
   - Advanced stabilisation system
   - Hw. Blacksun Filter
   - Hw. DC
   - 2 x Shield Drone
+ Broadside
   - Smart missile system
   - Advanced stabilisation system
+ Broadside
   - Smart missile system
   - Advanced stabilisation system
 - - - > 278 points

Hammerhead
- Railgun
- Smart missile system
+ - Multi tacker
   - Target lock
   - Disruption pod
 - - - > 180 points

Commander goes with the 2 Crisis. The Warfish take the Firewarriors and keep them save (hopefully) till the end of the game.  Found Fireknives to be the best Suite available. The damage output is enormous against almost any enemy at long range already and becomes even bigger at rapidfire distance. However the good thing is, that i dont have to go in close to cause lots of damage.

Cheers!

[Watchdog]

Your Troops choices are pretty weak. If you keep the Fire Warriors inside Devilfish transports, they may fare fine, however, if you go second, they have to start on foot and will be one of the primary targets in an objectives missions. The Kroot without any Hounds do not fare that well in my opinion. Adding 5 Hounds to the Kroot unit would increase their efficiency and survivability greatly.

[Rytlock Brimstone]

Looks pretty solid, although i do agree with watch dog on the troops.  The kroot defiantly need more of themselves (or hounds), as it lets them do what they do best (die?) for more then just one turn.  Besides that there are only a few things that i might change. 

Black sun filters really only help for one turn in one deployment type, so as it stands i consider them fairly useless.  However should a lot of night fight games go on where you play feel free to leave them as is. 

The crisis suits you've got are solid (though im not really a fire knife fan), however perhaps consider making one suit per team more anti horde (if all you play is meq then leave as is), as it should greatly bolster your all around fire power.  Perhaps a deathrain suit with a flamer (for burning eye which ever you prefer), or perhaps a fire storm. 

[Ithorion]

Thanks for the comments.

@ Troops Section: Yes, this part is weak indeed. I used to play 2 FoF, but since the 5th edition came out, I found that minimal standards are all you need. Everything gets a 4+ cover save against the FoF which decreases its effciency a lot against mass troops that usually have no/a bad armor save.

About the suggestion with the hounds. I like that. The main problem is, where to take the points?

About my style of play. When I dont get the first turn I usually keep the standards in reserve, depending on the enemy. Otherwise I set em up in cover and in a way that deepstriking close to them makes it dangerous. My philosophy is that standards win the game by surviving not by killing the enemy. The klling is done by the suites and tanks. The hounds however would really increase the survivability of the Kroots.

I also changed the 2 XV8 Fireknife team to a 3 XV8 Deathrain team and left out the Blacksun filters except at the Broadside. I had 3 points left and I thnik that these points might be best spent for a nighvision for the broadside.

Here we go again:


***************  1 HQ  ***************

Commander
- Shas'el
+ - 1 x Cyclic ion blaster
   - 1 x Plasma rifle
   - Targeting array
   - Hw. DC
   - Hw. Multi-tracker
   - 2 x Shield Drone
 - - - > 130 points

Joins the Fireknife Team
***************  2 Elite  ***************

Crisis Team
+ Crisis
   - 2 x Missile pod
   - DC
   - 1 x Shield Drone
+ Crisis
   - 2 x Missile pod
   - DC
   - 1 x Attack Drone
+ Crisis
   - 2 x Missile pod
   - 1 x Flamer
 - - - > 158 points

Crisis Team
+ Crisis
   - 1 x Missile pod
   - 1 x Plasma rifle
   - Multi-tracker

+ Crisis
   - 1 x Missile pod
   - 1 x Plasma rifle
   - Multi-tracker
+ Crisis
   - 1 x Missile pod
   - 1 x Plasma rifle
   - Multi-tracker
 - - - > 186 points


***************  3 Standard  ***************

6 Firewarrior
 - - - > 60 points

6 Firewarrior
 - - - > 60 points

10 Kroot
3 Kroothounds
 - - - > 88 points


***************  2 Fast Attack ***************

5 Pathfinders
+ Devilfish
   - Smart missile system
   - Targeting array
   - Multi-tracker
   - Disruption pod
 - - - > 180 points

5 Pathfinders
+ Devilfish
   - Smart missile system
   - Targeting array
   - Multi-tracker
   - Disruption pod
 - - - > 180 points


***************  2 Heavy Support ***************

Broadside Team
+ Broadside Teamleader
   - Smart missile system
   - Advanced stabilisation system
   - Hw. Blacksun Filter
   - Hw. DC
   - 2 x Shield Drone
+ Broadside
   - Smart missile system
   - Advanced stabilisation system
+ Broadside
   - Smart missile system
   - Advanced stabilisation system
 - - - > 278 points

Hammerhead
- Railgun
- Smart missile system
+ - Multi tacker
   - Target lock
   - Disruption pod
 - - - > 180 points

[juraigamer]

The list looks fine, however I would remove the smart missile system on the hammerhead, extra points for less shots isn't that great to be honest.

Try to fit a hw targeting array on your hq, it could help out. Also I have found giving the TL missile pod teams team leader the airbursting fragmentation projector very handy, with the other two taking a flamer and the last taking two shield drones.

A nice looking list btw.

[Watchdog]

The list looks fine, however I would remove the smart missile system on the hammerhead, extra points for less shots isn't that great to be honest.

Definitely agreed.

Try to fit a hw targeting array on your hq, it could help out.

Sadly, our Codex does not allow a Hard-Wired Targetting Array.

Also, I found out that using 2-man Crisis Teams with Shield Generators can be very effective, since they do not need a Bonding Knife as they cannot get below 50%. Also, you have to kill a Suit to force a Morale Check. Shield Drones make great Ablative Wounds, however, not having the Suit controlling them equipped with a Shield Generator means that being hit with just a few AP3 (or lower) weapons, especially S8 or better ones, can mean the whole team dying. I prefer using Shield Drones only for my Commander and the Broadsides, which, again, work best in teams of two, this time with a Team Leader, having a HW Target Lock to allow them to split fire.

EDIT: Typo.

[Rytlock Brimstone]

I disagree on the SMS, as i like the fact that say the railgun gets shot off that i can park it out of LoS and still be effective.  However thats just me. 

[Ithorion]

The list looks fine, however I would remove the smart missile system on the hammerhead, extra points for less shots isn't that great to be honest.

I played both versions so far. The burst cannons work really well, and are most likely the first source to find some spare points, however the Smart missile system hast 2 big advantages. One is the obsious no LOS and the other one ist that it counts as one weapon. Burst cannons are sadly 2 weapons hence I can only fire my railgun and one other cannon when I choose to stay mobile. Most of the time when enemies get within 18" of my Railhead I rather get up and going otherwise I get the autohits in close combat and almost everything is running around with some sort of power fist.

Also I have found giving the TL missile pod teams team leader the airbursting fragmentation projector very handy, with the other two taking a flamer and the last taking two shield drones.

Thats a point I really struggle with. I'd love to integrate the AFP, but didnt find a configuration that suites me yet. I usually try to keep the Deathrains as far away from the enemy as possible. So I dunno if that would be a good place for the AFP. Maybe I should try some sort of anti horde HQ like:

'el with ion Blaster+Burst Cannon + 'vre with AFP+twin linked Burst Cannons.

That could maybe work, gotta try that.

Also, I found out that using 2-man Crisis Teams with Shield Generators can be very effective, since they do not need a Bonding Knife as they cannot get below 50%. Also, you have to kill a Suit to force a Morale Check. Shield Drones make great Ablative Wounds, however, not having the Suit controlling them equipped with a Shield Generator means that being hit with just a few AP3 (or lower) weapons, especially S8 or better ones, can mean the whole team dying. I prefer using Shield Drones only for my Commander and the Broadsides, which, again, work best in teams of two, this time with a Team Leader, having a HW Target Lock to allow them to split fire.

That makes the Crisis hell expensive and I would need to play em as bodyguards. So far i didnt really have too many problems with S8 AP3 stuff. The wound allocation mostly made it possible to kill the drones and keep the suite alive. The shield Generator would be best at Suites that have to come in close, such as Helios. Again, they are hell expensive:

2 Bodyguards, Plasma, Fusionblaster, Shield Generator, Hw. Multi tracker = 184 points

thats the price of a 3 man Crisis team and more than I have to pay for a well equipped Deathrain team. A shield Generator might be perfect at the new XV9 though. (Dunno if it is an option you can pick)

Ty for your thoughts guys

[Watchdog]

Why would you need to play the Suits as Bodyguards? Maybe I forgot to mention that such a unit requires the weapons to be Twin-Linked.

For instance, two suits, one with a TL Missile Pod and one with a TL Plasma, both having a Shield Generator, come at 138 points.

[juraigamer]

Sadly, our Codex does not allow a Hard-Wired Targetting Array.

Opps I meant hard wired target lock... also one can only wish.

Burst cannons are sadly 2 weapons hence I can only fire my railgun and one other cannon when I choose to stay mobile.

A hammerhead with mutlitracker, which makes it count as a fast vehicle, that moves up to 6" can fire all of it's weapons, while moving at 12" it can fire one (railgun)

I'd love to integrate the AFP, but didnt find a configuration that suites me yet.

I used to run an HQ unit with the 'el as CIB and burst, + ta and hw multi and a 'vre bodyguard with AFP and burst, +ta and multi against eldar, it worked extremely well.

[Ithorion]

Why would you need to play the Suits as Bodyguards? Maybe I forgot to mention that such a unit requires the weapons to be Twin-Linked.

For instance, two suits, one with a TL Missile Pod and one with a TL Plasma, both having a Shield Generator, come at 138 points.

Now I fully  understand what u mean. But honestly, I have to say that I consider this version squishier than the Shield drone version. Why? When you fail one save of a S8+ weapon your whole suite goes down. When u have the drone and you fail the save you just lose the drone. One more advantage I see is that you have more groups to allocate wounds.
As you can see I am not a ral fan of mixing Weaponry. In this case the plasmas would like to come within rapidfire range to unfold their full potential while th rocket pods would like to play hide and seek far far away.

A hammerhead with mutlitracker, which makes it count as a fast vehicle, that moves up to 6" can fire all of it's weapons, while moving at 12" it can fire one (railgun)

Totally true, I don't know what I was thinking.

I used to run an HQ unit with the 'el as CIB and burst, + ta and hw multi and a 'vre bodyguard with AFP and burst, +ta and multi against eldar, it worked extremely well.

Ah, great to hear. Did you also play that version against other armies. I most likely will be playing in a small tournament in some weeks. The date is not set yet and we will only be like 12 people. The opponents will be 1-2xCSM, 4xSM, 1xNecron, 1xTau, 1xEldar, 1xOrcs, 1x'nids + me. I don't know which armies I'll be facing but since more than half are MEQ I don't know if I should switch my HQ.

Now something esle. Would you substitute the Railhead for something else? I know the Railhead isnt really a cheap efficient tank, especially not suitable for tank hunting. Is there another alternative that you would prefer? Since the Railhead was meant to be anti horde I wonder if a Ghost unit would be better suited for the job.

Here the idea:


***************  1 HQ  ***************

Commander
- Shas'el
+ - 1 x Cyclic ion blaster
   - 1 x Plasma rifle
   - Targeting array
   - Hw. DC
   - Hw. Multi-tracker
   - 2 x Shield Drone
 - - - > 130 points


***************  3 Elite  ***************

Crisis Team
+ Crisis
   - 2 x Missile pod
   - DC
   - 1 x Shield Drone
+ Crisis
   - 2 x Missile pod
   - DC
   - 1 x Attack Drone
+ Crisis
   - 2 x Missile pod
   - 1 x Flamer
 - - - > 158 points

Crisis Team
+ Crisis
   - 1 x Missile pod
   - 1 x Plasma rifle
   - Multi-tracker

+ Crisis
   - 1 x Missile pod
   - 1 x Plasma rifle
   - Multi-tracker
+ Crisis
   - 1 x Missile pod
   - 1 x Plasma rifle
   - Multi-tracker
 - - - > 186 points

4 Ghost
- 4 x Drone controller
- 6 x Attack drone
 - - - > 180 points

***************  3 Standard  ***************

6 Firewarrior
 - - - > 60 points

6 Firewarrior
 - - - > 60 points

10 Kroot
3 Kroothounds
 - - - > 88 points


***************  2 Fast Attack ***************

5 Pathfinders
+ Devilfish
   - Smart missile system
   - Targeting array
   - Multi-tracker
   - Disruption pod
 - - - > 180 points

5 Pathfinders
+ Devilfish
   - Smart missile system
   - Targeting array
   - Multi-tracker
   - Disruption pod
 - - - > 180 points


***************  1 Heavy Support ***************

Broadside Team
+ Broadside Teamleader
   - Smart missile system
   - Advanced stabilisation system
   - Hw. Blacksun Filter
   - Hw. DC
   - 2 x Shield Drone
+ Broadside
   - Smart missile system
   - Advanced stabilisation system
+ Broadside
   - Smart missile system
   - Advanced stabilisation system
 - - - > 278 points


I don't really know if the ghosts are better than the Head. A Railhead has the avantage to cause instant death against the W3, has more shots and a greater damage potential.

On the other hand, ghosts are stealthy and due to the drones, can take way more wounds before they loose effciency.

What do you guys think, what makes more sense? Is there any other alternative that you would prefer over both of these ideas.

Cheers!

[Rytlock Brimstone]

Personally, i wouldnt take the stealth suits (or ghosts).  My  reasoning is that if you look at thier point cost its another unit of crisis suits, or a railhead, both of which are better choices.  Also, yes they have alot of wounds, but a few well placed plasma cannons will kill the entire unit with out the possibilty of saves (unless they are in cover).  This is however up too you. 

Another thought though might be to take an Ion cannon instead of the railgun on a hammer head.  Yes, yes i said not to take a rail gun, but you already have 3 (TL i might add).  It gives you some solid all around fire power that can really threaten light vehicles and any infantry on the field.

[juraigamer]

Your going to be fighting up to 8 MEQ or better armies. Drop the missile pods on the plasma/pod team for fusion blasters, trust me on this.

Also in this case drop the stealth team for a railhead, then try to bond the plasma/fusion team and give them up to two shield drones, since they will normally be close to the enemy.

Remember if your HQ loses both drones and fails his ld, he can't regroup without a bonding knife.

If you really need points, take out the three kroot hounds, since they won't much much of a difference in melee.

[Watchdog]

If you really need points, take out the three kroot hounds, since they won't much much of a difference in melee.

I disagree. I would say add at least two more. Even now, 9 attacks at I5 can make a serious difference.

[Ithorion]

Heyya,

regarding the fact that there will be a lot of MEQ I could use a team of Helios suites. Although i really prefer the Fireknife version since it gives me more flexibility. I dont feel that i will need the bonding knives. The HQ will always join a Crisis team. So far I never needed the Bonding.

I scratched the Deathrains off the list. I wasn't too happy with them today. I really missed the rapid fire mode of my plasmas.

This is how it looks now.

Btw. I wont use the railhead for tank hunting. Thats what the Broadsides will be doing. The Railhead is just for masses.

Here we go (if some translations arent totally correct, I am sorry, I am using a german freeware army builder tool):

***************  1 HQ  *************** 
Commander, Shas'el
+ 1 x Ion blaster, 1 x Plasma rifle, Targeting array , Hw. Drone controller, Hw. Mult-tracker, 2 x Shield drone
 - - - > 130 points

***************  2 Elite  *************** 
Crisis team
+ Crisis, 1 x Fusion blaster, 1 x Plasma rifle, Multi-tracker
+ Crisis, 1 x Fusion blaster, 1 x Plasma rifle, Multi-tracker
 - - - > 124 points

Commander goes with this team and brings the drones.

Crisis team
+ Crisis Team leader, 1 x Missile pod, 1 x Plasma rifle, Multi-tracker, Hw. Drone controller, 2 x Shield drone
+ Crisis, 1 x Missile pod, 1 x Plasma rifle, Multi-tracker
+ Crisis, 1 x Missile pod, 1 x Plasma rifle, Multi-tracker
 - - - > 221 points

***************  3 Standard  *************** 
6 Fire warrior
 - - - > 60 points

6 Fire warrior
 - - - > 60 points

10 Kroot, 5 Kroot hounds
 - - - > 100 points

***************  2 Fast Attack *************** 
5 Pathfinder
+ Devilfish, Smart missile system, Targeting array, Multi-tracker, Disruption pods
 - - - > 180 points

5 Pathfinder
+ Devilfish, Smart missile system, Targeting array, Multi-tracker, Disruption pods
 - - - > 180 points

***************  2 Heavy Support *************** 
Broadside team
+ Broadside Teal leader, Smart missile system, Advanced stabilisation system, Hw. Drone controller, 2 x Shield drone
+ Broadside , Smart missile system, Advanced stabilisation system
+ Broadside , Smart missile system, Advanced stabilisation system
 - - - > 275 points

Hammerhead, Railgun, 2 Burst Cannons
+ Multi-tracker, Target lock, Disruption pods
 - - - > 170 points


Total points Tau : 1500

I have to say, I really like that list. I will try the Helios before though, as I feel they need to be handled really carefully.

Cheers!

[Watchdog]

I would give the Battlesuit Team Leaders Bonding Knives. With 2 Drones in the unit of 3 Crisis Suits if you lose the Drones and one Suit and the unit Falls back, it cannot Regroup now. The same goes for the Commander and his 2 Drones.

[Ithorion]

I would give the Battlesuit Team Leaders Bonding Knives. With 2 Drones in the unit of 3 Crisis Suits if you lose the Drones and one Suit and the unit Falls back, it cannot Regroup now. The same goes for the Commander and his 2 Drones.

That's not the way we play it and not RAW in my oppinion. The Codex explicitly states when drones are counted and for what purposes. It is mentioned that they count towards the 25% morale check nothing more. So in order to be unable to regroup I would need to lose 2 of the suites. Otherwise I agree that they need the knife.

[Ithorion]

Alright, I thought about how to improve my list and took some inspiration of the ideas here. So far #i have to say I really like that list. It is a little weak against hordes but since more than half of my possible enemies on that upcomming tourny are MEQ I specialized a bit more against those cans.

Here we go:

***************  1 HQ  *************** 
Commander, Shas'el
+ 1 x Cyclic ion blaster, 1 x Plasma rifle, Targeting array, Hw. Drone controller, Hw. Multi-tracker, Stims, 2 x SD
 - - - > 140 points

Joins the Helios team

***************  2 Elite  *************** 
Crisis team
+ Crisis Teamleader, 1 x Fusion blaster, 1 x Plasma rifle, Multi-tracker, Hw. Drone controller, 1 x SD
+ Crisis, 1 x Fusion blaster, 1 x  Plasma rifle, Multi-tracker
+ Crisis, 1 x Fusion blaster, 1 x  Plasma rifle, Multi-tracker
 - - - > 206 points

Crisis team
+ Crisis , 2 x Missile pod, Drone controller, 1 x SD
+ Crisis , 2 x Missile pod, Drone controller, 1 x GD
+ Crisis , 1 x Flamer, 2 x Missile pod
 - - - > 158 points

***************  3 Standart  *************** 
6 Fire warrior
 - - - > 60 points

6 Fire warrior
 - - - > 60 points

10 Kroot, 4 Hounds
 - - - > 94 points

***************  2 Fast Attack *************** 
5 Pathfinders
+ Devilfish, Smart missile system, Targeting array, Multi-tracker, Disruption pod
 - - - > 180 points

5 Pathfinders
+ Devilfish, Targeting array, Multi-tracker, Disruption pod
 - - - > 160 points

***************  2 Heavy Support *************** 
Broadside team
+ Broadside Teamleader, Smart missile system, A.S.S, Hw. Drone controller, 2 x SD
+ Broadside , Smart missile system, A.S.S
+ Broadside , Smart missile system, A.S.S
 - - - > 275 points

Hammerhead, Railgun, 2 Burst cannon
+ Multi-tracker, Disruption pod
 - - - > 165 points


total points Tau : 1498

I chose to add a Teamleader with another SD at the Helios team since I expect them to take a lot of heavy fire. That also gives me another wound group in this team.

Cheers.