[Apoc] Datasheet Ideas

[Chicop76]

1. Once a warrior squad is wiped out with a cryptek coming back at the end of the phase you get 1 kill point for killing the warriors and none for the Crptek.
2. You do not give up any kill points until the Cryptek is dead.
3. In the above case if you wipe the unit you get 1 kill point, but if the Cryptek comes back with the arrior squad you get an additional kill point.

[Chicop76]

This really is one of the few things not addressed by the latest Necron FAQ. This problem is, however, addressed quite succinctly in the Space Wolves FAQ, as they have a very similar dynamic to Crypteks. I think the concept and ruling can be ported directly to the Necrons. Q. If a Wolf Guard Pack Leader has joined a unit of Troops, does that unit cease to be a scoring unit? And does the Wolf Guard cease to count as an Elite model? (p86) A. When a Wolf Guard model joins another unit because of his Pack Leader special rule he becomes part of that unit to all intents and purposes. For instance, a Pack Leader that leads a Troops unit will still be able to claim an objective even if his Troops unit is wiped out – he is considered to be part of that Troops unit. He would also still be able to deploy in a mission that only allows Troops units to be deployed at first. Conversely, a Pack Leader that leads a Long Fang unit is counted as part of a Heavy Support choice, and therefore could not claim an objective, even if under the effects of Logan Grimnar’s The Great Wolf special rule. This also applies to the calculation of kill points and victory points – the Wolf Guard who have been split off from their original Wolf Guard unit count as part of their assigned unit in all respects. For example, I have a Wolf Guard squad of 10 and I like to split 3 of them off to be Wolf Guard Pack Leaders, one to lead my Blood Claws, one to lead my Grey Hunters, one to lead my Long Fangs. My opponent would score one kill point if he kills off all 7 of the Wolf Guard left in the squad after splitting, who are still forming a ‘normal’ unit. He doesn't need to kill all 10 of the Wolf Guard to get that kill point, as the other three Wolf Guard are now part of other squads. Conversely, because the Wolf Guard Pack Leaders are attached to these new squads, he would not score a kill point for killing those squads unless he kills ALL of the models in those packs, including the Wolf Guard Pack Leaders. So, given this, you would not get a KP for a Warrior + Cryptek unit until all the Warriors and the Cryptek are dead for good. This also means that an Ark can spawn Warriors into a Warrior + Cryptek unit that has been reduced to just the Cryptek.

I didn't think about the ark tidbit which would be very helpful. my main concern my opponets get a little angry when all the warriors are gone, but that darn cryptek keep getting up. I honestly think that lords are better now due to this. That means with an orb and better save it would be much harder to claim that kp from that unit.

[Lord Witherfume]

With nothing other then the Wolf Guard example (which works in exactly the same way, but instead of a model coming back to life, but being the last one left in the unit), I would follow that same precedent. So, the attached character would count as an upgrade model to the unit.

Might be more annoying to get that KP, but a 4+WBB roll is never a sure thing. The ark bonus can be helpful, as it can bring a fleeing unit to above 50% for rallying purposes.

[Chicop76]

With nothing other then the Wolf Guard example (which works in exactly the same way, but instead of a model coming back to life, but being the last one left in the unit), I would follow that same precedent. So, the attached character would count as an upgrade model to the unit. Might be more annoying to get that KP, but a 4+WBB roll is never a sure thing. The ark bonus can be helpful, as it can bring a fleeing unit to above 50% for rallying purposes.

Funny thing is I never failed a rally test unless in combat. Although if you was fleeing and died in the process and came back would you continue to flee due to failing the morale check while alive, or you come back and continue to run off the board.

[Zeeblee]

Units that fail morale checks cannot use RP.

[Lord Zambia]

Funny thing is I never failed a rally test unless in combat.

Funnier still, I didn't know it was possible to fail a rally test in combat...because you don't take rally tests in combat. Rally tests are either taken before a combat begins or after it's over (in the subsequent turn usually).

Also i'd be a bit careful when using a SW FAQ to do your own FAQ on necrons. Some players (rule lawyers for example) may not accept this. It would be interesting to see how tourneys handle it, that could prove helpful.

[Chicop76]

Funny thing is I never failed a rally test unless in combat.

Funnier still, I didn't know it was possible to fail a rally test in combat...because you don't take rally tests in combat. Rally tests are either taken before a combat begins or after it's over (in the subsequent turn usually).

Also i'd be a bit careful when using a SW FAQ to do your own FAQ on necrons. Some players (rule lawyers for example) may not accept this. It would be interesting to see how tourneys handle it, that could prove helpful.

Morale test. The point is if you are running back below half strength and said cryptek either get killed by gun fire, trapped, assaulted while falling back, etc. When it gets back up will it continue to run or just be dandy.

[Schev]

That's a tricky one. In my mind, that unit ceases to exist until such time that it comes into existence again. I would think that all effects that had been in place on the unit before it ceased to exist would be removed when it comes back. That would mean he would stand up and no longer be fleeing (and also that he could have been pinned / gone to ground before he died, and similarly stand back up in normal condition). Hardly definitive, just my two cents.

Is this not covered in the codex?

[Wargamer]

Okay, trying to cover a few things I've seen in this thread:

The Codex states that characters do not count as part of a unit for the purposes of Resurrection Protocols, meaning you cannot attempt an RP if the only models left are a Lord / Cryptek / joined IC. However, the Ghost Ark states that you nominate "a unit of Warriors". Since the Royal Court member becomes a member of the unit for all intents and purposes (save for RP as that is an explicit exception), then as long as that character is alive, he is still part of "a unit of Warriors".

As for Cryptek / Lord respawning from combat, he can be killed in combat and, due to being Ever-Living, resurrect within 3" of the Ever-Living token (and 1" away from enemy models). No Morale test is taken; Resurrection occurs after Morale, and units that are awaiting Resurrection do not take Morale Checks (or, indeed, interact with the game in any way, shape or form). Thus, there is no way he can come back and immediately be forced to flee; RP is the last thing you do in each phase.

Note you do not generate Ever-Living if the model was destroyed via sweeping advance, Tank Shock or similar; the Ever-Living counter is placed wherever a model is when "removed as a casualty". Sweeping Advance does not state the models are casualties - it simply states the unit is destroyed and removed from the table. Likewise, other "remove from play" abilities would most likely prevent Ressurection Protocols / Ever-Living; they are not 'casualties', but are instead simply no-longer part of the game.

[Schev]

That does not resolve what happens when a Warrior + Cryptek unit is fleeing and is comprised of only the Cryptek. If he gets shot down while fleeing, does he still count as fleeing when he stands back up?