Author Topic: is this list just too cheesy/weak??  (Read 136 times)

Calaban

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is this list just too cheesy/weak??
« on: September 29, 2005, 12:43:16 AM »
Master
  Terminator Armor, Power Weapon, Storm Bolter

Venerable Dreadnought
   AC/SB/DCCW xtra armor

Venerable Dreadnought
   AC/SB/DCCW xtra armor

Venerable Dreadnought
   LC/MP xtra armor

10 man Tac Squad
 Las/Plas xtra armor
 sgt w/T honors/ power weapon/ pistol

10 man Tac Squad
 Las/Plas
 sgt w/T honors/ power weapon/ pistol

Tornado Landspeeder
 AC/HB

Tonado Landspeeder
 MM/HF

Dreadnought
 AC/HF xtra armor

Dreadnought
  AC/HF xtra armor

Dreadnought
  LC/MP xtra armor
------------------
1500 points

obviously Minor Divergence (Heed the Wisdom of the ancients/We stand alone)

i dont play SM, but i was thinking of this list as a purchase.. mostly because i LIKE dreadnoughts models, theyd be worth the $240, and i thought itd be kewl to see 6 lined up... but how acceptable is it?? how underpowered/overpowered is it?? how much should i burn in hell for even thinking this?

phish

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Re: is this list just too cheesy/weak??
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2005, 12:53:02 AM »
Wow, thats a lot of dreadnaughts! Yah lots of people will call that cheesy. Im not sure how affective that would be either, besides that it would be expensive and hard to paint. (i dont like painting vehicles).I would suggest not doing it but if you really want to then go for it.

Aun’o Tash’var Shin’jin

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Re: is this list just too cheesy/weak??
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2005, 01:35:49 AM »
i don't find the list cheesy, easier to kil yes but cheesy, no, if it's in your fluff then no problem...
personally i would'nt bother with the terminator honours on you Sgt's, i'd give your tac squads Plasma Cannons and Plasmaguns, (AP2 Goodness) and instead of two hurricanes, get more speeders, if you bring more they're less likely of going down easy, give them all Heavy Bolters, give one more dread a Lascannon, and take of the missile launchers on the others, give them storm bolters, then you'll scare your opponant with 6 charging Dreads, this especially scare the hell out of small hoard players as practically nothing can hurt them in close combat. just be wary of Imperial Guard.

Offline Spiritbw

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Re: is this list just too cheesy/weak??
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2005, 01:44:43 AM »
I'd have to say the list is underpowered in my humble opinion.  Very themely though I must admit.  It's jsut that even with the best of luck your going to loose a fair number of dreads in the course of the battle.  If you ahve my luck you'll loose them all.  :P  Still, you seem to ahve spread your weapon choices out well though i ahve toa sk where the poor commander is going to go?
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Delightfully Emo

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Re: is this list just too cheesy/weak??
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2005, 10:31:35 AM »
My buddy played this list. He used the veny dreads with assault cannon DCCW, and the normal dreadnoughts with LC, ML combo. he has never lost with this list......Of course there are some pretty tricky tactics to nail down with this army.

march10k

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Re: is this list just too cheesy/weak??
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2005, 01:02:24 PM »
This list will either win overwhelmingly, or die quickly...depending on the opponent.

It's somewhat similar, though much weaker, to the list a buddy of mine used for a while (3 furiosos, 3 normal dreads, sanguinary priest with escort, 2 min/max las squads, pie-plate if there were points to spare).  His furiosos never lived to see the assault phase, but they attracted so much fire that the rest of his army did pretty well, most of the time.  Against my IG (only 7 lascannons and 3 autocannons, I promise!), he never made it to turn 4.  Against my DA, his infantry fell quickly to my plasma, but my 4 lascannons had trouble with the dreads due to only being able to target one per turn (but they rarely failed to kill one every turn).  If he was able to kill my devastators quickly enough, he generally won, if my lascannons made it to their 4th shooting phase, he generally lost.

With a list like this, you have to be able to eliminate pretty much all anti-tank threats in the first two turns, no ifs, ands, or buts. 2/3 of your army is vehicles of AV12 or worse.  Good news: you need S6 and god rolls to glance a dread.  Bad news: it doesn't take a lot of S7 or better weapons to ruin your day.

So, no, it's not cheesy, only an oponent who gambles that he won't face more than 2 vehicles and spends his points accordingly will have insurmountable problems.  If anything, it's a weak list.

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Re: is this list just too cheesy/weak??
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2005, 03:19:09 PM »
personally i wouldn't bother with the terminator honours on you Sgt's, I'd give your
I would, one of my sergeants with Terminator Honours, Power Weapon and a bolt pistol walked through half an army (OK, exaggeration, but he kill more than 2 of my squads worth in points.

i don't find the list cheesy, easier to kil yes but cheesy, no, if it's in your fluff then no problem...
Only powergamers would in my opinion.

i'd give your tac squads Plasma Cannons and Plasmaguns, (AP2 Goodness)
I prefer meltas, higher strength, better AP (true it's only useful against vehicles but that's not the point), can double-toughness Marines and it doesn't overheat!!

and instead of two hurricanes, get more speeders, if you bring more they're less likely of going down easy, give them all Heavy Bolters
I don't have a problem with these land speeders, in fact I use these myself and they always last at least 2 turns and always win their points back.

give one more dread a Lascannon, and take of the missile launchers on the others, give them storm bolters.
Not my first choice, but it's your army. Personally I'd recommend leaving the Dread's as they are.

then you'll scare your opponant with 6 charging Dreads, this especially scare the hell out of small hoard players as practically nothing can hurt them in close combat. just be wary of Imperial Guard.
This I agree with. 'Nids only have a selct few units which can harm a Dread's front armour, the Orkz have poor accuracy (unless you happen to be nicknamed Brin Milo like my Orky friend), but Guard can have a ton of lascannons and tread-fethers (missile launchers), not to mention autocannons and their ordnance.
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Feeple

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Re: is this list just too cheesy/weak??
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2005, 06:32:45 PM »
Holeee klkn, that's a lot of anti-tank power! :o

If you fiish painting that, let us know.  I'd love to see that many Dreads!

As others stated, you'll want to focus on getting rid of every tank FIRST THING.  That will mow down any horde army (with the exception of IG, who keep an extra Lascannon in their undershorts.  Really.  It's in the Codex.)  Other Marines and Chaos would be a decent challeneg for you, but heavy mech forces could potentially tear this apart.

Just be cautious, and you'll be fine.

Calaban

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Re: is this list just too cheesy/weak??
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2005, 11:59:18 PM »
after reading these posts, im definately gonna min the Tac squads, and get more throwaway Melta LandSpeeders.. just to pop the dread poppers first! IF i go this route...  im sure id catch hell at my local game store lining up 6 dreads on a tabletop.... id get some groupie ooooh!!!'s but also a lotta veteran Boooooo!!!'s

Feeple

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Re: is this list just too cheesy/weak??
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2005, 04:18:36 PM »
after reading these posts, im definately gonna min the Tac squads, and get more throwaway Melta LandSpeeders.. just to pop the dread poppers first! IF i go this route...  im sure id catch hell at my local game store lining up 6 dreads on a tabletop.... id get some groupie ooooh!!!'s but also a lotta veteran Boooooo!!!'s
Dude, screw the haters.  If you like Dreads, play 'em.  People who don't like can either beat you with a new strategy or die trying.  Always do your own thing, man.

Offline Deadnight

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Re: is this list just too cheesy/weak??
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2005, 04:47:06 PM »
in a nutshell, 6 dreads, 2 land speeders and 2 tac squads.....

OK, i see a few flawed units:
Tonado Landspeeder
 MM/HF


that weapon loadout does not work. you have coupled a dedicated medium range tank cracker to a light infantry weapon. not the right thing to do, IMO.

Personally, i would go beggar with the speeders, and just take a h.bolter or a melta. Id only take the dyi. cannon on the h.bolter one.

Secondly, your commander: you have a tooled up cc monster of a HQ and two generally shooty tac.squads. what is his role? would he simply be wasted where he is?

thirdly, your 2 tac squads. what is their role? they look to be generally shooty, but you have an obscenely tooled out bruiser of a vet.sarge in each. is he there to bolster the squad of they get engaged, or does the squad exist to bolster him in close combat? i can't see that bit working, in all honesty. i don't like how those squads are made out. i would redistribute the points, and go with more smaller squads. remember, you dont need a vet.sarge in each. a cheaper chapter master can perform the same role in the squad. i'd prefer a few smaller squads with more h.weapons.

One thing is, the list is a bit slow. its nice. but slow. take a drop pod or two for those dreads. they are vicious.

Lastly, the lack of smoke launchers on your dreads is obvious. get them! its 18 pts in total. and its worth it for  a turn of glancing hits only!
it would surely be a fun list to play - thats for sure. though i can see it having  a tough time against some armies. my tau, for instance pack 2 rails, 2 ion cannon, and 6 missile pod shots a turn. or an infiltrating CSM or SM army with meltas/lascannons could ruin your day. or lots of squads with vets with hidden powerfists.

but it would be fun! if you want to play it, sure run with it, and see where it gets you! if it doesnt work, you can always buy more models! *GW is pleased*
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SMRCommander

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Re: is this list just too cheesy/weak??
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2005, 08:13:47 PM »
This list will either win overwhelmingly, or die quickly...depending on the opponent.

I have to agree.  Also said (I forget who) was that it does take some tricky tactics to use this army.  If you plan on lining up Dreadnoughts and letting loose, I say'd you'd be gone.  And this list would NOT stand up against an armpured compnay list;lol....you'd get creamed.  Not cheesy though, and can be fluffy.  Underpowered...definitly.  You'll want to take a dread out of the Elites section and buy a Techmarine with atleast 2 Tech Servitors-you gonna need to be able to fix those dreads broken weapons quickly if you have any chance of surviving.  The Venerables should be shooting dreads, as they can take tank hunters.  Tanks and Heavy Weapons squads will be your biggest threat.  If you have Tank Hunter combined with Missile Launchers and Lascannons, you'll be able to take out tanks easier.  The 3 Heavy Support Dreads should be geared towards CC.  Let them stay with their Assault Cannons and DCCW and Storm Bolter; those will do fine.  You could use these guys to hunt out anti-armor infantry.  When the main threats are dead, you can just kill the rest without many threats.  However, this will fail indoubtly against an Imperial Guard list or some Eldar lists; both of these have many anti-tank/anti-marine weapons, and Imperial Guard have enough units in their army to make your dreadnoughts head spin before killing them all.  And this army will be doomed in objective games, such as Table Quarters and Retrive Objectives and such. 

If you like this army though, then go for it.

And I've had amazing luck with my 1 dread; 2 hammerheads shot at it in a turn.  One misses and the other w. a railgun does absolutly no damage; not even a glancing hit.  Next turn another Hammerhead fires and only shakes the dread.  And that's just one game ;D   

march10k

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Re: is this list just too cheesy/weak??
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2005, 12:04:11 PM »
Yeah, I usually bring a single venerable dread with plasma cannon, DCCW, and tank hunters.  Sounds like an odd combination, but S8 against vehicles, Ap2 against marines, and the venerable survivability?  It's priceless.  He's died once in 9 games (careful use of terrain helps!), and kills 200-400 points per game.  He was in assault only twice in those games, once because the plasma cannon was blown off, and once because a squad of ogryns got too close to my devastators.  He usually lurks in terrain just forward of my deployment zone, roasting things at 36" with the plasma cannon, and is available as a counter-assault unit. 

My feeling on dreadnaughts is the opposite of my thinking on sentinels.  For sentinels, I recommend taking at least 6, or not taking them at all.  For dreadnaughts, I think the perfect number is one venerable dreadnaught.  Two might be okay, but the more you take, the harder it is to find useful parts of the battlefield for them, where antitank fire is minimized, but targets are maximized.

SMRCommander

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Re: is this list just too cheesy/weak??
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2005, 01:41:56 AM »
How do you take a Plasma Cannon? You must be a non-codex chapter (dark angels, blood angels, or space wolves) cuase I know of no other chapters allowed to do that...

Aun’o Tash’var Shin’jin

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Re: is this list just too cheesy/weak??
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2005, 01:45:30 AM »
How do you take a Plasma Cannon? You must be a non-codex chapter (dark angels, blood angels, or space wolves) cuase I know of no other chapters allowed to do that...

Forge World... they're not tournament legal... but they do rule... when i start my second space marine army then I'm including 3 of them... but then again I'm going to go plasma crazy...

SMRCommander

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Re: is this list just too cheesy/weak??
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2005, 01:06:02 PM »
but then again I'm going to go plasma crazy...

Erm....not a good idea.

march10k

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Re: is this list just too cheesy/weak??
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2005, 04:44:03 PM »
they're not tournament legal... but they do rule...

1. They are legal for DA and IIRC, space puppies as well.

And they RULE  (no "gets hot")

But don't forget my caution about taking more than the terrain supports.  especially if you're limited in your ability to make them venerable (this is essential!)

Brother-Captain

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Re: is this list just too cheesy/weak??
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2005, 05:48:57 PM »
Er... wow... you've fit six dreadnaughts in a 1,500 point army...

Alright, no offense my friend but with 20 marines i'd be having a field day running circles around you with my own list. Drop some of those dreadnaughts and get yourself a Devastator squad and another Tactical squad and you'd be better off. The Venerable Dreadnaughts can absorb a lot of fire, but when exposed to a hard hitting anti-tank unit, like Devastators they tend to blow up quicker then most people expect. I personally love normal Land Speeders, that IS just me though, so if I were you I would downgrade your flyers there and get a multi-melta for one of them.

Uhh... I really don't know what to say, besides this is a case of brawn over numbers, i'm sure you could bully your way through armies developed to deal with large numbers of troops, but larger infantry based armies with several heavy weapons spread out among different units would weigh you down...

An interesting idea... but like anything, the Astartes need their troops to proform excellently.

Aun’o Tash’var Shin’jin

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Re: is this list just too cheesy/weak??
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2005, 05:41:20 AM »
Er... wow... you've fit six dreadnaughts in a 1,500 point army...

i can fit six in a 750pt army...

SMRCommander

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Re: is this list just too cheesy/weak??
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2005, 11:03:46 PM »
Er... wow... you've fit six dreadnaughts in a 1,500 point army...

i can fit six in a 750pt army...

And have nothing else...