Battlesuit Advice

[RED_NED]

Hi all,

As far as I can tell from browsing the forums, you can spend all 3 crisis battlesuit hardpoints on weapon systems. I didn't know this when buying and glueing my suits up, becauseiI bought them second hand, so alll my suits have the 'fireknife'(?) setup of plasma rifle and missile pod. I have given my two squads of  battlesuits and both my Shas'O/Els these weapons and used the last hardpoint on some piece of equipment or other.

Now I gather that the team leader of a unit, or everyone in a bodyguard may select to have hardwired upgrades instead of using a valuable hardpoint on them. What's the best way to set my suits up? I picked up some hammerhead boxes for a cheap price, and I'm thinking of building them as devilfish and using the smart missile systems as missile pods on my crisis - making them twin linked. Is this a good idea? Or is it a waste of points upgrading a bloke to a team leader purely to have a twin linked missile pod?

[Black Behemoth]

Here's the most popular ones and their uses. Whichever looks most appealing you should take.

Fireknife (Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi-Tracker) - Most popular and most versatile combination, Good at killing heavy infantry, low save models, and light vehicles.

Death Rain (Twin-Linked Missile Pod, Flamer or Target Lock) - Good at killing heavy infantry and light vehicles, and is accurate.

Burning Eye (Twin-Linked Plasma Rifle, Flamer or Target Lock) - Good at killing heavy infantry and low save models (like marines)

Sunforge (Twin-Linked Fusion Blaster, Shield Generator) - Good deep-striking suit. Can get behind tanks to kill them, and is pretty hard to kill thanks to 4+ invunerable save.

Death Rain Fireknife (Twin-Linked Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle, Hard-Wired Multi-Tracker) - Better version of Fireknife, but usually only used on Shas'el commanders, as it is expensive.

Burning Eye Fireknife (Twin-Linked Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Hard-Wired Multi-Tracker) - Better version of Fireknife, but usually only used on Shas'el commanders, as it is expensive. The Death Rain Fireknife is usually used more often than the Burning Eye Fireknife, as the Missile Pod is more versatile and destructive.

Accurate Fireknife (Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Targetting Array, Hard-Wired Multi-Tracker) - Not able to use yet. Targetting Array is rumored to be a supprot system in new codex. It makes both the Plasma Rifle and Missile Pod more accurate. Would be good on Shas'els, as they get Shas'O BS for only 5 points.

[.mace]

Hi all,

As far as I can tell from browsing the forums, you can spend all 3 crisis battlesuit hardpoints on weapon systems. I didn't know this when buying and glueing my suits up, becauseiI bought them second hand, so alll my suits have the 'fireknife'(?) setup of plasma rifle and missile pod. I have given my two squads of battlesuits and both my Shas'O/Els these weapons and used the last hardpoint on some piece of equipment or other.

Now I gather that the team leader of a unit, or everyone in a bodyguard may select to have hardwired upgrades instead of using a valuable hardpoint on them. What's the best way to set my suits up? I picked up some hammerhead boxes for a cheap price, and I'm thinking of building them as devilfish and using the smart missile systems as missile pods on my crisis - making them twin linked. Is this a good idea? Or is it a waste of points upgrading a bloke to a team leader purely to have a twin linked missile pod?

Correct. IF possible, don't glue on the weapons on any future crisis suits, they can be pushed into placed once painted, so that you can always swap configs etc for different army lists. The same goes for the Hammerhead/Devilfish.. Have a look at this modular tanks guide, if you need any help, I'll have a newer more detailed version of the guide out in a few days time

Now, as for the crisis suit configs, it all depends on which army you're facing and what type of units they'll have. Have a look at the 'Important Topics' sticky at the top of this board, and look for XV8/Crisis Suit Configs, there are some good posts linked to there, especially MalVeauX's

[Smitty]

Here's the most popular ones and their uses. Whichever looks most appealing you should take.

Fireknife (Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi-Tracker) - Most popular and most versatile combination, Good at killing heavy infantry, low save models, and light vehicles.

Death Rain (Twin-Linked Missile Pod, Flamer or Target Lock) - Good at killing heavy infantry and light vehicles, and is accurate.

Burning Eye (Twin-Linked Plasma Rifle, Flamer or Target Lock) - Good at killing heavy infantry and low save models (like marines)

Sunforge (Twin-Linked Fusion Blaster, Shield Generator) - Good deep-striking suit. Can get behind tanks to kill them, and is pretty hard to kill thanks to 4+ invunerable save.

Death Rain Fireknife (Twin-Linked Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle, Hard-Wired Multi-Tracker) - Better version of Fireknife, but usually only used on Shas'el commanders, as it is expensive.

Burning Eye Fireknife (Twin-Linked Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Hard-Wired Multi-Tracker) - Better version of Fireknife, but usually only used on Shas'el commanders, as it is expensive. The Death Rain Fireknife is usually used more often than the Burning Eye Fireknife, as the Missile Pod is more versatile and destructive.

Accurate Fireknife (Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Targetting Array, Hard-Wired Multi-Tracker) - Not able to use yet. Targetting Array is rumored to be a supprot system in new codex. It makes both the Plasma Rifle and Missile Pod more accurate. Would be good on Shas'els, as they get Shas'O BS for only 5 points.

I am new at both the Tau and 40K, and I was under the impression that crisis suits had the three hard points and that you had to pick from among support systems and weapons to fill them.  How exactly does this hardwired upgrade thing work as a way to bypass using hard points?  Is it that all commander units can pick from the hardwired support systems list and those do not count against hard point options.   If so that is very cool!!!

[Khanaris]

I am new at both the Tau and 40K, and I was under the impression that crisis suits had the three hard points and that you had to pick from among support systems and weapons to fill them.  How exactly does this hardwired upgrade thing work as a way to bypass using hard points?  Is it that all commander units can pick from the hardwired support systems list and those do not count against hard point options.   If so that is very cool!!!

Hardwired systems do not occupy a hardpoint on the suit.  Simple as that.     You still need to fill all three hardpoints, though.  You can't leave one empty.

[Smitty]

In that sense couldn't you take Burning Eye Fireknife plus a drone controller and two gun drones?  Since I don't think gun drones count against the multi-trackers two shootable weapons?  Or is that simply an option which is never taken because it is too many points into one model?  I am just having visions of being able to fire the missile pod, twink-linked plasma rifles and two gun drones in one shooting phase.  If I am off on something please let me know...I'm still  learning.  And perhaps even throw in target lock so the souped up units could fire at different targets. 

[Khanaris]

In that sense couldn't you take Burning Eye Fireknife plus a drone controller and two gun drones?  Since I don't think gun drones count against the multi-trackers two shootable weapons?  Or is that simply an option which is never taken because it is too many points into one model?  I am just having visions of being able to fire the missile pod, twink-linked plasma rifles and two gun drones in one shooting phase.  If I am off on something please let me know...I'm still  learning. 

Sure.  The drones are separate models and fire on their own (at their low BS).  The problem with this configuration is that a commander with drones no longer counts as an independent character (this is the current interpretation, although there has been some debate).  This means that he and the drones can be targeted even if they are not the closest models to the shooter.  It also gets mixed up with the majority toughness rules, meaning that the commander will be taking tests on the drone's lower toughness.  Have a look around the forums.  We have had a number of good discussions of this particular problem.

[Smitty]

I'll stop being a bother after this...I am just happy to learn about these options.  I thought that the Commander HQ was still an Independent Character even with drones...though I suppose the unit toughness thing could be an issue.  If anyone can direct me to the appropriate thread I would be much obliged.  Regardless, thank-you for this new information; I am even more so looking forward to picking up that Battlion Box now. =-)

[Khanaris]

Glad to be of help.  That's what the forums are here for, after all.   

I should have been a little clearer.  Although the Crisis Commander with drones is still an independent character with regards to joining other units, only an independent character that is not part of a unit is protected from enemy fire by the IC rules.  Since the commander counts as being part of a unit when he has drones, he is vulnerable to enemy Heavy Weapons fire.

[[something clever]]

Just a note:

Only the HQ Commander can have up to three hard-wired systems.
HQ Bodyguards can take one HW system.
Normal Crisis suits cannot have hard-wired systems, but the team leader (designated for 5pts.) can choose one HW system.

Reading, it sounded like Smitty thinks all Crisis suits can have as many support systems as they want... not the case, sorry buddy.

[march10k]

Here's the most popular ones and their uses. Whichever looks most appealing you should take.

Fireknife (Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi-Tracker) - Most popular and most versatile combination, Good at killing heavy infantry, low save models, and light vehicles.

Death Rain (Twin-Linked Missile Pod, Flamer or Target Lock) - Good at killing heavy infantry and light vehicles, and is accurate.

Burning Eye (Twin-Linked Plasma Rifle, Flamer or Target Lock) - Good at killing heavy infantry and low save models (like marines)

Sunforge (Twin-Linked Fusion Blaster, Shield Generator) - Good deep-striking suit. Can get behind tanks to kill them, and is pretty hard to kill thanks to 4+ invunerable save.

Death Rain Fireknife (Twin-Linked Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle, Hard-Wired Multi-Tracker) - Better version of Fireknife, but usually only used on Shas'el commanders, as it is expensive.

Burning Eye Fireknife (Twin-Linked Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Hard-Wired Multi-Tracker) - Better version of Fireknife, but usually only used on Shas'el commanders, as it is expensive. The Death Rain Fireknife is usually used more often than the Burning Eye Fireknife, as the Missile Pod is more versatile and destructive.

Accurate Fireknife (Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Targetting Array, Hard-Wired Multi-Tracker) - Not able to use yet. Targetting Array is rumored to be a supprot system in new codex. It makes both the Plasma Rifle and Missile Pod more accurate. Would be good on Shas'els, as they get Shas'O BS for only 5 points.

Deathrain is not good at killing heavy infantry.  It doesn't have the armor penetration required.

Also, it's my understanding that we have some sort of convention for naming standard configurations that have one of the weapons twinlinked, based on the strength of the twinlinked weapon, as in a suit with twinlinked missiles, plasma, and hrdwired multitracker would be fireknife-7, since the twinlinked weapon is strength 7.  If you twinlinked the plasma instead, you have fireknife-6.  Is this official GW fluff?  I don't think so, but it's generally used on this forum, and I've seen it elsewhere, as well. 

Let the buyer beware.  Everyone on this forum (including me) has an agenda when it comes to arming suits.  Statements such as "The Death Rain Fireknife is usually used more often than the Burning Eye Fireknife, as the Missile Pod is more versatile and destructive." should not be taken as anything other than the author's personal opinion. My personal opinion happens to differ 

(at least) One important suit has been left out, the helios suit.  There is no better suit for killing infantry with 3+ and 2+ saves.  The helios suit mounts a plasma rifle, a fusion blaster, and a multitracker.  This gives you 3 shots at heavy infantry, provided that you are within 12" when you shoot, an all 3 shots wound on 2+ without allowing an armor save.  These suits are not suitable for attacking bikes or jetpack infantry, due to the ability of these units to move+charge more than 12".  Care must also be taken to attack in a time and place where the rest of your opponent's army is unable to return fire on the target's behalf.  So, the helios configuration is incredibly effective against heavy infantry, and very much capable (though this should not be its mission!) of destroying the heaviest tanks, but requires extremely careful application, due to its short range (one shot at 24" will never justify the suit, 3 shots at 12" will do so very quickly).  This suit isn't for novices, but it is, in my not so humble opinion, the best that money can buy if you regularly face power-armored foes.

[Smitty]

You are right [something clever], I was getting some of the options mixed up between the HQ, Bodyguards, and the Elite Commander; but it's all straight in my head now.  (I'm in the middle of midterms, so the brain is full of lots of pointless info. right about now)


March10k, how would you support the helios suit when it is required to be so close to enemy troops?  Do you simply hide in terrain and "pop"out; or is it backed up by stealth suits or something else.  I would just think that the second you kill off three space marines in one turn; your opponent would focus all of his energy on smiting that suit.  Even deep-striking would leave you pretty open to death.  The set-up does indeed sound deadly; I'm just a n00b trying to figure our how you keep it from being crushed.  Though I suppose that if you keep "hopping" out of LOS he would never get a chance to use his deadlier heavy weapons; but still what else do you have on the board which removes the "priorority one" target from your suit?"

[march10k]

Well, I am definitely a fan of stealth suits.  In another post that I made about helios suits, I specified a few things that I left out here.  Any your questions are in precisely those areas. 

First, while a monat helios isn't bad, you should really take three for best results.  Rarely will a single suit kill three marines in one turn.  A set of three will average 5 marines down in a turn without markerlight support, and 7 kills if only the plasma gets markerlights (rarely will you get 6 markerlight hits and be able to hit with all 6 weapons on 2+).  A single suit will kill 1-2 on a normal turn.

Second, always have something in range to help out with massed S5 shots if the suits have a terrible shooting phase.  They can handle 3-4 marines rapid-firing bolters their way, but not 7-10!  Stealth suits work very well in this role, as a squad of 6 will put down 2 marines per turn, statistically speaking.

Third, if you are sure you can get the marines down to a manageable number (such as, there are 7 or fewer of them before you start shooting), you don't have to plan for having terrain shield you from the rest of his army, you can plan to charge the 2-3 remaining marines to "hide" from his shooting in hand to hand combat.  Just don't wipe him out on the charge!

Oh, and never deepstrike helios suits, their range is too short to deal with scattering!