1850 Tyranids

[akthomas89]

This is a list that I've been working on for some time and have modified quite a lot since it's original build. I have gotten it pretty close to the way I like it, but there are still kinks to be worked out and things that I am not sure of. That being said, all comments are appreciated short of "this is totally wrong, do it my way."

Headquarters - 389 pts
Hive Tyrant - 188 pts (Winged, Warp Field, 2x Scything Talons, Toxin Sacs, Toxic Miasma, (WS) Adrenal Glands)
Hive Tyrant - 201 pts (2x Twin Linked Devourer, Toxin Sacs, Enhanced Senses, 2x Tyrant Guard)

Elites - 342 pts
Carnifex - 114 pts (2x Twin Linked Devourer, Enhanced Senses, Flesh Hooks)
Carnifex - 114 pts (2x Twin Linked Devourer, Enhanced Senses, Flesh Hooks)
Carnifex - 114 pts (2x Twin Linked Devourer, Enhanced Senses, Flesh Hooks)

Troops - 760 pts
10x Genestealers - 160 pts (Vanilla)
10x Genestealers - 160 pts (Vanilla)
10x Genestealers - 160 pts (Vanilla)
14x Hormagaunts - 140 pts (Vanilla)
14x Hormagaunts - 140 pts (Vanilla)

Heavy Support - 353 pts
2x Zoanthrope - 130 pts (Warp Blast, Synapse Creature)
Carnifex - 223 pts (2x Scything Talons, (I) Adrenal Glands, (WS) Adrenal Glands, Bonded Exoskeleton, Extended Carapace, Flesh Hooks, Regeneration, Reinforced Chitin, Toxin Sacs, Tusked, Mace Tail)

Total: 1844 pts
Models: 66
Wounds: 87

A few notes, you'll notice a lack of warriors. I hate them. They are costly, weak, and scream "shoot me!" because of their synapse power. Synapse isn't a big concern for me either, the only creature that really needs it are the hormagaunts who can be maintained by the winged tyrant - everything else has LD 10 or brood telepathy. The Zoanthropes are questionable too. The warp blast is only a 50/50 chance and they're relatively expensive, but I feel the need for their tank busting capabilities. I also forsee criticism for the heavy support carnifex. So far he is experimental. I want him to be intimidating and draw fire. That's his job. He goes slow and gladly so, if he absorbs lascannon blasts and plasma blasts on his way down, he will have served his purpose. I realize that he is potentially, and most likely will be, a huge point sink. The thought process is that if he takes all the shots to go down, that many fewer will be directed towards the genestealers and the other fexes and tyrants. Also, I am split between carapace on the genestealers or not. It would prevent being caught off guard by rapid firing bolters, but it would have to drop 6 stealers to equip all the squads with the biomorph.

Anyway, tell me what you think guys. I'm appreciative of any thoughts.

[Mage001]

I'd take the regeneration off the Carnifex. It looks good on paper, but you have to roll a 6 for him to regenerate a wound. That's a 1/6 chance. Not really worth it for 30 points. I'm not going to comment on the Hive Tyrant, as I don't use them that much. I'm sure about taking four Carnifex's in this army. Some people might call is cheap to have that many in an army. I'd cut it down to two. Everything else looks good. I'd only change what I mentioned above. I'd give this army a thumbs up. *looks to thumb smiley* I guess I'll just have to give you a smiley instead. 

[akthomas89]

Yeah, Regen I was thinking about dropping from the start. Maybe dropping Regen and his extended carapace and taking a third tyrant guard for my footslogging tyrant.

I don't think it's cheap, but I'll have to ask what other people think. They're very vulnerable if you ask me, and begging to be shot. In my opinion, they're less resiliant than a tac squad of marines. Higher toughness, but fewer wounds and the same save. And less firepower.

I should ask some people what they think about that subject. I think it's fine. It just seems intimidating if you don't know how to react to them along with 30 genestealers.

[Mage001]

Most people do consider it cheap. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, just that there might be some people that won't want to play against you. I'd take out two of the Elite Carnifex's. You could try Biovores instead. Or use a Lictor, as they can be a powerful force. My Tau friend is afraid to go near any terran when I use a Lictor. It's so much fun to see.

[akthomas89]

I'm really reluctant to drop carnifexes because some people won't like it. It really will just make the list weaker. Besides, people not wanting to play against carnifexes is like me not wanting to play against lascannons or assault cannons. I may not like it, but it's still part of the game and its still fair.

I may give it a shot for casual play but for tournament play I don't see myself dropping fexes to spare someone.

[Mage001]

I wouldn't drop them in a tournament, but in casual I would. It'd probably end up being more fun for you and them. It's not a problem with me, as I don't use them that much. I stick the swarm part of the 'Nids.

[akthomas89]

Aight, well I guess with all this said I am aiming for this to be a competitive list. So keep that in mind.

When it comes to casual gaming with 40K and anything I never aim to be a power gamer and definitely not a rules lawyer.

Only thing I can't stand is when people measure 12 inches and noticably move the model 13 inches.

But that's besides the point.

[Journeyman]

I would definitely recommend a lictor, and a biovore, you have no idea how useful and effective these units can be, and they are quite cheap points wise.

I don't like wings on a tyrant personally but that's up to you, but I would definitely change the equipment of the waling tyrant, keep the tyrant guard, but I recommend scything talons to provide a little extra combat prowess, which will be needed as the hormagants are very weak against the likes of Marines and Necrons.

[akthomas89]

This is intriguing - reading through the posts, and now twice here, people seems to suggest biovores a lot. Every other message board I've read through always goes the other way with biovores, saying that their too costly and that they never really work the way you want them to. However, this sudden enthusiasm for them may force me to try them out.

As for lictors, I've found that - while their abilities are neat - they are too fickle for the price. If they had more wounds or even a 4+ save they would be more viable in my eyes, but a lone lictor striking a squad will net a few kills, then if you try to run, a bad hit and run roll will see the lictor steamrolled. They are fun units for casual play and do add more flavor to the game, I would not use them in competitive play unless I had a defined reason or a way to ensure that they'll be doing what I want and won't need to worry about a streak of bad luck seeing my 80 point model dead.

Regarding Tyrants, contrary to what a lot of people think, I think - give or take a biomorph or warp power - that these are the best loadouts for hive tyrants. The winged tyrant can stay in the forefront of the army attracting fire and keeping synapse with the hormagaunts. On such a beast, scything talons are the best biomorphs available, as every attack is potentially another dead MEQ. As for the footslogging tyrant, I've best heard him described as having the firepower of 4 heavy bolters. While lacking the AP of a heavy bolter, he maintains the strength, and the ability to reroll misses and wounds makes up for the inability to penetrate armor. As always though, I proxy my models with my friends as having different weapon loadouts from time to time. If I find a more effective loadout for a hive tyrant, I'll be sure to change it.

[UXO]

I agree with you.  I think people are supporting biovores and lictors because they are fun to play.  But if you are going for competitiveness you're better off without them in your army.  Both vores and lictors got severely nerfed by the new codex.  If you field biovores and lictors and you have to fight marines then you are just giving away points.  They're not bad against other armies but when over 75% of the armies out there are marines of some sort...

Winged Tyrants are one of the best things.  Either your winged tyrant annihilates everything or draws all the fire for the rest of your army to annihilate everything.  Either way its win win. 

[akthomas89]

Yeah, when it comes to casual play I'm not picky about what I play with. I could see lictors maybe being used competitvely as a way to nail a few guys by surprise, but their fragility coupled with their status as 'loner' and therefore being unable to secure table quarters, etc., makes the prospect of taking them for comptetitive use less and less appealing.

I'm glad you like the winged Hive Tyrant - mine is the centerpiece of my army. Still unpainted and needs some sanding but still very impressive with a 7 inch wingspan and 2 sets of scything talons.
Being new to this forum I've been really surprised at the number of people disliking Hive Tyrants and favoring Broodlords heavily. Broodlords never quite appealed to me - not over a 2nd hive tyrant at least. I think the way to go is many TMCs in a hybrid army such as this, or no TMCs taking 2 broodlords as HQ in a horde army with Zoanthropes for anti-tank support. I don't like mixing and matching broodlords and hive tyrants.

[The Artist Formerly Known As Phage]

Personally, I think that the fact that the Broodlord is relatively cheap for what it does (most common unit in Tyranids to now be called cheesy), plus it was new in the new codex and thus a new toy, which everyone loves (the toy, not necessarily the unit) means it gets highly recommended.  Lictors are great for the fear factor (I have a friend who plays Necrons who loathes these critters).  In my opinion, it's their greatest weapon.  That and the fact that they can be quite flexible, so they are especially good against Necrons, with tying down the heavy/ destroyers.  They're not really there for kills, or they'd be far too powerful.

Never liked Biovores.  If you want ordnance, I favour Carnifexes with Barbed Stranglers.  The better strength means that you instakill anything you wound (mostly anyway).  Biovores are just too darn unpredictable for my taste.  But, each to his own....

[Journeyman]

Biovores no longer use  any template other than small blast in teh new codex, but the ability for each biovore to fire up to 3 spore mines a turn each means that they can do some serious damage.

[akthomas89]

It's definitely an effective HQ, especially for the cost. But the fact that he takes fleet of feet from the Genestealers and it would also mean losing either my heavy bolter tyrant or my winged tyrant, both of which I prefer to a broodlord, despite their higher costs. Seeing 2 hive tyrants come down - one of them winged - makes for some serious intimidation. The infiltration provided by the broodlord is nice, but, as with the lictors, it's more of a little treat to me than a super effective tactic to be added.

People seem to be relatively adamant about lictors as well. I'll playtest them but other than the odd story of a guy who forgot about them and then lost a tank or whatever else, it just seems that they charge, net a few kills, and then either get owned when they strike back or tries to hit and run and doesn't make it back. I'll play them though, and I do think they'd be very fun units, so they might be a very nice addition to my casual games.

I share the same thoughts as you, Phage, regarding biovores. However, when push comes to shove I usually edge them both out for something else. The only time I really think a strangler fex is effective is if you actually shell over the points to twin link it. With that single D6 at 50/50 chance to hit, half of the time the carnifex is going to be a walking point sink. It's even worse with a barbed strangler / venom cannon combo - irony always laughs in your face by making the strangler miss and the venom cannon shots hit. It always goes the other way around with vehicles; the strangler hits and the cannon misses.
In short, I don't like either gun that much; but I at least see the strangler as usable. The venom cannon is just laughable to me.

Mkoll, are you certain that's how they work? I remember the codex saying that "the brood [as a whole] fires sporemines equal to the number of biovores in the brood," not "each biovore in the brood fires sporemines equal to the number of biovores in the brood." Does anybody know the actual wording on this? I looked in my codex, but found nothing. Is this in the core rulebook?

[Mage001]

The whole Biovore BROOD fires as many mines as there are Biovores in the brood.  This doesn't diminish their effectiveness though. The ability to place them anywhere on the field 48" away is a very nice ability.

[UXO]

If you need points in your army then biovores and lictors would be ok.  However, a veteran player is not going to be intimidated by the lictor (becuase he will probably have seen for himself how easy they die) and its inability to claim objectives is quite a handicap. 

Biovores on the other hand are now great objective getters (well unless your reconning and marching them clear across the table).  They just don't seem able to kill much.  Even more so than other tyranid units, their success is more highly dependent upon the roll of the dice. 

And yes the whole brood fires only one clump of mines per turn, the number of which is determined by the number of biovores in your brood. 

[akthomas89]

Thanks for the clarification on the Biovore rules, Mage.

I think that a lictor might be a viable addendum to the list in a 2000 point version. Filling out the genestealer squads and adding a lictor, then using the rest for however many hormas I can fit. Same goes for biovores, I don't think using those extra 150 points for a biovore or two would dimish the effectiveness of the list.

[Mage001]

Thanks for the clarification on the Biovore rules, Mage.

No problem. That's what I'm here for...... I think. *runs off to check*

I'd always take atleast two biovores. They fire a barrage, meaning the whole brood fires at one, and the mines stay together (atleast I think so). Plus when one blows up, every other mine near it blows up too. Bio Acid mines are great against Marines, as they are AP3.

[Zenith_XS]

Since you only need the hormagaunts, when you buy the gaunts box would you mind mailing the termagants to me?
Seriously though, you seem to need some high strength range. Not sure how monsterous with devourers go, they used to only have the massive selection of hth weapons, venom cannons or barbed stranglers. I'm probably miserably wrong and you should ignore this post 

[akthomas89]

Yeah, barrage weapons are pretty nifty. Don't they force pinning checks also? Or is that negated given the nature of the weapons biovores use?

As for high strength range; you're definitely right, this list definitely lacks range. However, Since every weapon is assualt, I'll be moving the entire army forward every turn for the most part, short of something completely stupid. The twin linked devourers on monstrous is absolutely amazing. Even against MEQ they'll statistically take down about 3 marines.

I've tried stranglers and venom cannons - they're too fickle for me. They never hit when you need it most and the venom cannon is absolutely horrendous for its points. The only good way to run a strangler is twin linked on a carnifex. And that's only occasionally - I can usually find a better use for those points.