Author Topic: Does ANYONE use Krootox ?  (Read 6 times)

Professor

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Does ANYONE use Krootox ?
« on: November 18, 2005, 11:49:16 AM »
I'm just wondering, if anybody uses Krootox out there? Sorry, if this has been discussed already, but I'm new to the board.

pravo

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Re: Does ANYONE use Krootox ?
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2005, 11:51:44 AM »
I use them... they are currently sitting on my desk holding a stack of papers down incase an errant gust of wind plays havoc with my filing.

Offline LordDemon

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Re: Does ANYONE use Krootox ?
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2005, 12:21:52 PM »
Not yet, though I may get few after new codex comes.
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Offline White Wolf

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Re: Does ANYONE use Krootox ?
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2005, 02:17:40 PM »
Hmmm... toughness 3 for instant death purposes, heavy support choice, nearly as much as a battlesuit? i think not. There are many other better ways to spend points in my opinion. Might think about using them when new codex comes out if they're better.

march10k

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Re: Does ANYONE use Krootox ?
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2005, 02:20:57 PM »
well...you probably find them in "kroot mercenaries" lists.   :P

Black Behemoth

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Re: Does ANYONE use Krootox ?
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2005, 02:36:12 PM »
My friend uses them. I MIGHT use one when the new codex comes out, but ony if they lower the points to 35 or less. 50 points for a weapon worse than the Missile Pod and Autocannon NOT worth 50 points.

Vash113

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Re: Does ANYONE use Krootox ?
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2005, 03:13:19 PM »
I would never consider using them. Giving up a valuable heavy support slot for a single rapid fire missil pod, no thank you. Its not even its own squad, is easily insta killed and way overpriced. Im not giving up a Hammerhead for the ox. If in the new codex its points are decreased and it becomes an upgrade to a kroot squad instead of a heavy support choice than I might consider using some kroot and the ox. Until then it is just one of the worst if not the worst unit in the Tau army.

MalVeauX

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Re: Does ANYONE use Krootox ?
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2005, 03:53:20 PM »
I'm just wondering, if anybody uses Krootox out there? Sorry, if this has been discussed already, but I'm new to the board.

Welcome to the Boards Professor.

Just some quick advice for general forum use, make sure to always browse stickied topics, which appear just above the normal threads, in their own little box. There, you will find one, on every board almost, that is called Important Topics. There's quite a bit in these topics, especially here at the Tau board. If all else, if you really want to find things quickly to browse, check out the Search Feature. And to make it even better, use the Advanced feature, so that you can limit your search to the Tau board, and then search for something that interests you (such as Krootox in your case). You will be given a long list of topics that all include that theme you'd like to know more about, both older and recent ones alike, based on relevance to your search. Give it a shot, you may find what you need much faster that way.

Now, as it is, you will find an overwhelming amount of information which points to the Krootox being the ultimate waste of points in the Tau army list. You will find many things that show them as being the worst possible purchase for a Tau army and that they simply are too weak for what we have to do to get them. First of all, let's look at just what makes them the black sheep that they are:

1 - They're a heavy support choice (That means, they deny us Hammerheads & Broadsides in their place)
2 - They must be attached to a Troop selection of Kroot (That means, we must pay for another unit just to even get this unit, taking up two selections)
3 - They cripple the Kroot's abilities (That means, you just lost infiltration, which is one of the key reasons to have Kroot, which means it's hard to get cover early)
4 - They're expensive (You pay big cash, and big points to field them, while they add very little to your army, other than looks, compared to a Tau unit)

There are positive arguments for them, but they will be much more difficult to find, and much more difficult to truly validate from many players, however, here's some examples:

A - They're good combat support in small games (Strength 6 in combat can be handy)
B - The Kroot Gun is still a long range, decent strength dakka weapon, buried within a warm mass of Kroot for protection, and you can have several.
C - Cool looking model (Sometimes, for theme's sake, it's just cool to see them)

Now - if you follow some of the rumors on the new Tau codex, which is coming out soon, you may find a few things that may interest you. One of these rumors, is that the Krootox will stop taking up heavy support when they're attached to a Kroot troop. That means it will be more like a unit upgrade and not subtract in a bad way from the rest of your army's force organizational chart. That simple change will eliminate many of the negative points of the Krootox and make them a rather attractive and simple unit to have. If this rumor proves true, I would expect to see Krootox sells go up, as people want more and more massed Kroot Guns (which are basically autocannons, but they're rapid-fire) and these will be useful for stationary squads that can spend time in cover, and act as light anti-tank support, or mowing down infantry or harassing high toughness creatures from afar. For a troop selection in the Tau army to suddenly have long range higher strength weapons, it will be something worth exploring. But again; this is based on a rumor - so we must wait to see.

Personally though; I'm picking up a few before stores raise the price on them if the demand suddenly shows up (since store stock on them are usually low due to zero sales on Krootox models). Around me, they're cheap because no one wants them. If you don't mind potentially wasting money, it could be an interesting little investment for the future.

Cheers! :)

Bayruun

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Re: Does ANYONE use Krootox ?
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2005, 04:34:00 PM »
My friend uses them. They never do anything. I've seen them take clear shots at the rear of a rhino and do nothing. For four turns in a row. In a word: useless.

the_vilest_worm

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Re: Does ANYONE use Krootox ?
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2005, 06:07:40 PM »
I agree with pavo. they make for an awesome paperweight. at the very least, you can use it to start a conversation at your local store.

"hey is that a krootox?"
"yes, every day i wake up to the greatest of joys, that of being [your name here]"
"uh. ok"

cheeseman

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Re: Does ANYONE use Krootox ?
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2005, 08:33:41 PM »
krootox have one use. when playing a noob or a stupid player who hasnt seen its stats it can draw alot of fire but give up a heavy slot for it? not a chance.

Calaban

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Re: Does ANYONE use Krootox ?
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2005, 12:56:19 AM »
I dunno.... I see a lot of paradigms being stated here... and a lot of them are unfair:

"T3 Inta-kill"   
  umm majority rules. Krootox are like a SMurf with a Missile Launcher... they die last.

"50 pts is too much for a rapidfire missile pod"
   but 150 for 3 Str 7 shots aint all that bad when considered together. theyre now cheaper and longer ranged than 3 deathrains.. with a minimum of 10 meat shields around them... bonus: theyre good in CC, too!

hopefully, (oh, puhlease!!!), the new codex will move the Krootox from a Heavy Support slot to a Heavy Weapons option within a Kroot Carnivore Troop slot. in that case, a minimized Kroot squad simply supporting 3 krootox may be a viable option.

but they ARE a great paperweight! even better, I put one on top of my Cash Lockbox in my closet to give me an evil glare when I want to dip into my rent money!!!   :P

Vash113

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Re: Does ANYONE use Krootox ?
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2005, 02:37:37 AM »
That is true they die last, however that is still only 3 str 7 guns using up a heavy support slot, something we can put more of and usually at the same price in elites and they get jet packs and another hard point system aswell as a much better save. Even if they are not that bad they also restrict the kroot by negating their infiltration, almost every gun in the game will negate a 6+ save even if you buy it, so out in the open kroot are dead meat and without infiltrate it will be hard to get them into and then keep them in cover. Also no sane Tau player would give up a much needed heavy support slot, especially in games of 1000 points and over where you really need to fill all 3. As a heavy weapon upgrade to a karnivore squad they would be worth taking, as they are... not a chance. Those points can be spent better on really anything else in the army. The kroot are really the worste unit in the Tau army, probably the only reason I see hounds fielded is because most players do not use all their fast attack slots anyway though hounds should also become an upgrade to a karnivore squad.

Like mentioned above the Ox have some advantages, they just do not make up for the overwhelming disadvantages. The good drowned in the bad. With luck this will change, lets keep our fingers crossed.

tyrehire

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Re: Does ANYONE use Krootox ?
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2005, 06:34:48 AM »
I dunno.... I see a lot of paradigms being stated here... and a lot of them are unfair:

"50 pts is too much for a rapidfire missile pod"
   but 150 for 3 Str 7 shots aint all that bad when considered together. theyre now cheaper and longer ranged than 3 deathrains.. with a minimum of 10 meat shields around them... bonus: theyre good in CC, too!


Yeah, but a decent ionhead might only cost 15 more points and then its moblie, durable, longer ranged and it's an even better paper holder!

Tyrehire

Calaban

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Re: Does ANYONE use Krootox ?
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2005, 04:52:22 PM »
but a marine Lascannon outr there would simply drool over targeting an ionhead... but merely scratch its head wondering why on earth its zorching - save kroot instead of shooting something else... while the decent (argue all you want!) Kroot Gun is blazing away!

really though, the only way I can argue this at all is under the condition that we're talking abiut 3 krootox, not 1.  :)

Vash113

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Re: Does ANYONE use Krootox ?
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2005, 10:21:51 PM »
I dunno, lascannons usually shudder when they see any of my Hammerheads, they never have good luck... Im not sure Ive ever lost a Hammerhead to a lascannon. A couple times to battle cannon and thousand son sorceror spells but never any rockets or lascannons... hmm. The Hammerhead is very good at surviving big shots and cannot be damaged by most weapons, where as the kroot are succeptible to even the smallest of enemy fire and even worse should they be cought out in the open ordanance will have a field day. Plus with the ox being so much larger than the kroot a player may well be able to use profile terrain to snipe away the ox first, you can only remove cassualties in a unit that can be shot by the enemy and if said enemy cannot see the kroot torsos but can well see the ox, well the ox have to die. I play on boards that use a fair amount of profile terrain, so this may not be that much of a problem for some players. Also a vindicare assasine wont care much if the kroot are there or not and simply shoot the ox anyway. There are a number of situations where either a large number of cassualties will force the ox to die or where they must be removed as cassualties.

Just in general there really are many better options to perform whatever the kroot ox are good at sadly and the limitations they place are not worth the expendature.

Also practicly kroot ox are pretty expencive, for the coste of 3 ox you can buy a Hammerhead something that can put out a significantly greater volume of fire and still have $5 left over. Cheaper in cash, slightly more expencive point wise, uses the same FoC slot and puts out easily as much and more fire... Ill take the HH.

Offline Fish Ead

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Re: Does ANYONE use Krootox ?
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2005, 12:42:19 AM »
Might make an intesting tzeentchy chaos spawn...
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Vash113

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Re: Does ANYONE use Krootox ?
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2005, 01:15:03 AM »
Might make an intesting tzeentchy chaos spawn...

Hmm... that reminds me of the story about kroot eating chaos marines and turning to chaos themselves. I wonder what a chaos themed kroot merc army would be like or how would tainted kroot be represented in a chaos force, allies? Hmm...

Good idea though.

ToastMaster

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Re: Does ANYONE use Krootox ?
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2005, 04:09:15 PM »
Post Deleted, un-educated.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2006, 07:56:10 PM by ToastMaster »

SqurielLord

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Re: Does ANYONE use Krootox ?
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2005, 05:30:09 PM »
The only way my tanks can be killed is on close combat. Lascannon? Phafh. Hive tyrant? Whimper.

I might pick up a Krootox or two just to see if they're any good. Since my kroot squads are usaly small, it wont matter...its only $12USd, right?....