Countering Flyers

[Carrelio]

Alright everyone, new topic because after playing a few games in 6th edition I see there will be issues with this... What are Tau going to do against flyer heavy lists?  Specifically, necrons can bring a lot of flyers.  They aren't great flyers... but quite frankly without any way of dealing with them in our lists and no preperation for them... they are going to be a serious problem.

Deathrains and broadsides, with their twinlinked high strength weapons seem like our best option so far since they boost our chance to hit from about 16.7% to about 30%. But even with 6 deathrains and 4 broadsides (in teams of 2) I haven't really found this to be enough... and to add even more anti-tank firepower would be to take away from my anti-infantry capacity.

Has anyone else played against a flyer heavy list?  And does anyone else have any ideas of how to fight them?

[Narric]

I came up with a simpy Army list ploy for my 6th Ed Tau army.

Include three Hydras of course, to keep it legal I took a Lord Commissar (for that excellent Leadership value) and a unit of Shotgun toting Veterans (to use that Ld and to clear out any enemies in Cover), and Guardsman Marbo for a bit of sneaky.

In my mind this should give my opponent pause for thought when using his Flyers, and leaves some breathing space for my main Tau army to shoot-to-swiss-cheese the enemy ground forces.

[Tybalt Defet]

That's actually what I've been thinking about doing. Though my only Guard models are Elysians so how I'll fit a hydra into it and not have it look wierd is my current predicament.

[Narric]

That's actually what I've been thinking about doing. Though my only Guard models are Elysians so how I'll fit a hydra into it and not have it look wierd is my current predicament.

If you make a Landing Pad, you could claim the Hydras are in place to defend you base camp, and the Valk is for recon and resupply, depending on the situation.

Based on this, you could add fluffy rules to the game, to offer extra objectives to you and your opponent.

[Lord Sotek]

You could also take the opportunity to convert up a drop-Hydra.

[BigToof]

I've found/seen Broadsides for Tau working well, as well as Seeker missiles (as long as everyone agrees to the Markerlight interpretation).  As far as other options, IG has Hydras and Vendettas, which are solid.

If you don't mind getting a little green on you, Lootas and Dakkajets are quite nice for their price.

I've also seen TL-Autocannons working well in IG blobs, as the firepower from Necron Scythes can be withering, but if you're behind an Ageis or such, you can usually take it pretty well without losing the important bits of your blobs.

TL-Scatter lasers also seem pretty good.

Best,
-BT

[Narric]

You could also take the opportunity to convert up a drop-Hydra.

And here is a very useful guide on how to scratch build a Hydra

[Tybalt Defet]

You could also take the opportunity to convert up a drop-Hydra.

And here is a very useful guide on how to scratch build a Hydra

I might order the heavy elysian buggy and convert it like this guy did for my hydra then. Add a Valk and it should fit what I'm going for.

[Chicop76]

I just realize flamers of tzeentch is really good against flyers.

[Tybalt Defet]

I didn't think templates could hit flyers.

[knightperson]

Templates can not hit flyers, unfortunately. However, I can tell you that the "Flying Circus" Necron list is not unbeatable. I just came from a local tournament where everybody was expecting the Necron flyers to just walk away with first place, but that didn't happen. I'm still wrapping my mind around this fact since I don't usually do very well at tournaments, but I actually won! I wasn't playing Tau, I was playing my Chaos Daemons, but I faced the Flying Circus in the first round, and he only won by the tertiary objective of killing more characters than I did. Details of my list don't belong here (I'll probably post a battle report or analysis when I'm less tired), but it was heavy to Tzeentch units packing Breath of Chaos and had lots of small horror squads.  Anyway, the weakness of a flyer-heavy list is that there is a rule somewhere that if you ever have all of your units off the field after the first turn, that's considered a Tabling, even if you still have things in reserve. Knowing what was coming at him (lots and lots of Daemonic shooting), my opponent deployed far more on the table at the start of the game than he would have normally: three of five troop squads and his HQ, I think, and I still almost tabled him. Counting some poor Everliving / We'll Be Back Reanimation Protocol rolls, I had him down to 4 models before the flyers showed up.

THAT is the weakness of a flyer-centric list. If there are just a few flyers, then particularly the Tau with there large amount of strength 6 or 7 crisis suit weapons and twinlinked railguns will have an easier time than most taking them down. If the list is very heavy to flyers, then, again, Tau have a better-than-average chance of eliminating the ground forces before the reserves arrive.

[Chicop76]

Templates can not hit flyers, unfortunately. However, I can tell you that the "Flying Circus" Necron list is not unbeatable. I just came from a local tournament where everybody was expecting the Necron flyers to just walk away with first place, but that didn't happen. I'm still wrapping my mind around this fact since I don't usually do very well at tournaments, but I actually won! I wasn't playing Tau, I was playing my Chaos Daemons, but I faced the Flying Circus in the first round, and he only won by the tertiary objective of killing more characters than I did. Details of my list don't belong here (I'll probably post a battle report or analysis when I'm less tired), but it was heavy to Tzeentch units packing Breath of Chaos and had lots of small horror squads.  Anyway, the weakness of a flyer-heavy list is that there is a rule somewhere that if you ever have all of your units off the field after the first turn, that's considered a Tabling, even if you still have things in reserve. Knowing what was coming at him (lots and lots of Daemonic shooting), my opponent deployed far more on the table at the start of the game than he would have normally: three of five troop squads and his HQ, I think, and I still almost tabled him. Counting some poor Everliving / We'll Be Back Reanimation Protocol rolls, I had him down to 4 models before the flyers showed up.

THAT is the weakness of a flyer-centric list. If there are just a few flyers, then particularly the Tau with there large amount of strength 6 or 7 crisis suit weapons and twinlinked railguns will have an easier time than most taking them down. If the list is very heavy to flyers, then, again, Tau have a better-than-average chance of eliminating the ground forces before the reserves arrive.

I was thinking of doing a flying list with Immortals last edition. I was shooting fr a high amount of Tesla twin linked shbooting then, but now realise how nasty it is now. The point values makes more sense now. Anyway glad you did well with the least loved 40k army out there. Too bad flamers can not use Boc against flyers. Due to rule changes I probably will run more flamers and horrors than before and focus on flying Tzeentch Mcs that can fire bolt and gaze with little chance of being assaulted. More I think about it now Boc might be nice for flying nurgle princes that can fly around dishing out 2-3 attacks that wound on 2s with breath of chaos with a flying range of 24" and needing 6s to hit on top of being a t6 model.

Did the 3+ than the 2+ reserve roll really help out. With Tzeentch coming in as early as you can really helps. I am thinking of running my flammers as a squad of 6.

I thinking about trying out the chaos alliance option. The benefit of such an alliance is for one cheap icons for accurate deep striking. Also you get to take advantage of having 3 flying Mcs as an Q option. I though 5 hq options was possible, but than remebered that the summoned.daemon can't be the main hq choice,

[crisis_vyper]

Anyway, the weakness of a flyer-heavy list is that there is a rule somewhere that if you ever have all of your units off the field after the first turn, that's considered a Tabling, even if you still have things in reserve.

It is the weakness of Daemons (or any reserve-based army) as well, which is why a lot of Daemon players are now taking allies as well to mitigate this weakness to an extent. If that first wave is obliterated, they lose the game.

[knightperson]

Anyway, the weakness of a flyer-heavy list is that there is a rule somewhere that if you ever have all of your units off the field after the first turn, that's considered a Tabling, even if you still have things in reserve.

It is the weakness of Daemons (or any reserve-based army) as well, which is why a lot of Daemon players are now taking allies as well to mitigate this weakness to an extent. If that first wave is obliterated, they lose the game.

True in priciple. In practice I haven't seen it as much of a problem. Maybe if you land an all Slaanesh force for your first wave you could be in danger of an early tabling, but that's why I lead with Tzeentch. Well, that and the fact that I like shooting better than assault anyway. Unless you have terrible luck with the scatters of a Tzeentch opening act, your first half is going to be facing far less than the full enemy's strength. Depending on the opposing army, he will still probably outnumber you at the Bottom of One, but not by a lot, and 2/3 of your remaining force is coming in on Turn 2.

[crisis_vyper]

True in priciple. In practice I haven't seen it as much of a problem. Maybe if you land an all Slaanesh force for your first wave you could be in danger of an early tabling, but that's why I lead with Tzeentch. Well, that and the fact that I like shooting better than assault anyway. Unless you have terrible luck with the scatters of a Tzeentch opening act, your first half is going to be facing far less than the full enemy's strength. Depending on the opposing army, he will still probably outnumber you at the Bottom of One, but not by a lot, and 2/3 of your remaining force is coming in on Turn 2.

I roll saves and deepstrikes like a bandit.

And agreed on a number of things. With the Flamers having a reduction in invul saves but an increase in wounds (not to mention cheaper too) it can be a pseudo-deathstar like unit, especially when you max out the unit, put the pyrocaster in there, put all 4 heralds with breath of Chaos on discs and fire away. It will kill anything that is not a flyer.