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Second Sphere Announcements, News and Community => News, Rumours and Trading => Topic started by: Begel Dverl on August 03, 2013, 04:56:54 PM

Title: Codex: Space Marine Up for Pre-Order!
Post by: Begel Dverl on August 03, 2013, 04:56:54 PM
*trumpet noise*

The might Dakka hath spoketh.

Quote from: Redemption 543907 5910181 df3d2375daa4391c1b3f8dfdc2fbca04.jpgBest_Pone over at Warseer (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?377950-Codex-Space-Marines), who was also spot on with his High Elf, Eldar, Apocalypse and Black Legion rumours (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/448304.page), had this to say about the new Codex: Space Marines:

Quote from: Best_PoneUp for release in September is the new Codex: Space Marines.

- There will be 7 Ltd Ed varients. 6 of these will be covers for First Founding chapters, whilst the 7th will have Black Templars on the cover.

- New weapon family: Grav weapons. I believe these wound against the armour save (so terminators would be wounded as if they had a toughness of 2).

- First Founding chapters will be getting a substantial section each to themselves, so hopefully this can be looked as as Codex: Space Marines instead of Codex: Ultramarines. This will also show in a rule called Chapter Tactics, for which the effects depend on the chapter being played.

- There is a new armour type that at first glance looks to be somewhere between a terminator and a dreadnought - looking more closely, it appears to go over the marine's power armour however.
- This new armour can be armed in 2 ways, depending on the user. The devastator version has either a bolter array or missile launchers mounted on the chest armour, whilst the gauntlets can be armed with heavy bolters, lascannons or grav cannons. The assault version has a bolter array or frag launchers mounted on the chest armour, with assault drills mounted on the gauntlets.

- There are 2 new AA tanks. One tank veterans will already be familiar with as the Hunter, armed an AA missile launcher. The other tank mounts 2 tri-barreled turrets instead.

- There is a new tactical squad. Lots of options as you'd expect, but of particular interest will probably be the grav pistol and grav rifle.

- A new plastic Sternguard veteran squad.

- A new plastic Vanguard veteran squad.

- New plastic characters: a captain, a librarian and a chaplain.
Hopefully this will finally dispel the consistent rumours about the SM getting some mega-dreadnought.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Narric on August 03, 2013, 05:32:49 PM
Why would Space Marines ned a Mega-dreadnought? They can already Ally to Grey Knights for the Deathknight :P
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on August 03, 2013, 05:34:54 PM
 - New weapon family: Grav weapons. I believe these wound against the armour save

If this is true then fuck it. Why bother playing? Why spend all those point for that 2+ save when this weapon laughs at you? If they were just heavy weapons then it might be ok, but if they have troop ready pistol and rifle versions then why take anything else?
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Narric on August 03, 2013, 05:56:36 PM
And this edition had the start of such a balanced game.

Good to see Space Marines and their relatives will always get the most ridiculously OTT toys.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on August 03, 2013, 06:01:41 PM
The Grav guns actually render MCs obsolete. T8 Wraithknight? T3 now. T6 Riptide? T2 now. Wraith Guard? T3. What is the freaking point?
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Narric on August 03, 2013, 06:12:46 PM
It basically the Deus Ex Winnier of the GW Poster boys. Notice how most of what was mentioned, was Counter-units, to pre-existing units? AA Tanks, and Grav Weaponry?

The New Tactical Squad sounds interesting, but thats just because of the fact of, how the heck do you have two types of Tactical squad? Aren't tactical squads supposed to be Tacticaly versatile? Meaning, not Specifically for Defensive or attak, they're the jack-of-all-traes unit. Garauntted the new unit will be heavy offesnive, rendering the older and familiar Vanilla Tacitcal Squad left to Deployment Zone & Objective Defense.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on August 03, 2013, 06:17:20 PM
Well the SMs already have a pretty good flier, can already land in your lines turn one, have the toughest vehicle in the game and the best all round stats, why not give them the toys to make anyone else obsolete.

For feth sake GW, just when I thought you were making a turn around you pull this.

My only hope is that these special toys are prohibitively expensive so you are either limited to only a few in the army or you have plenty but very few men over all.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Narric on August 03, 2013, 06:24:08 PM
Quote from: The Man They Call Jayne on August 03, 2013, 06:17:20 PM
My only hope is that these special toys are prohibitively expensive so you are either limited to only a few in the army or you have plenty but very few men over all.
And what if the is a Blast or Large Blast Grav Weapon?
AFAICR the (Dark) Eldar would have this kind of technology, and I don't remember them having these sorts of toys.

I'd like to ask everybody who continues to buy into GW: Why?
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on August 03, 2013, 06:31:33 PM
Seems like the Horus Heresy books are being dragged forward. This kind of tech was probably not uncommon at the height of the Imperium. But Heresy ISN'T 40k and just taking a basic game mechanic and saying "Well, you can ignore it because you are you" is just stupid. The Eldar being able to run and shoot was bad enough.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Chris on August 03, 2013, 06:48:13 PM
And so begins the battle of Marine Bashing.
If you're a marine player and you don't like the Gav weapons, don't use them. If you're not a Marine Player, you will either have a 4+ sv or a 5+ save, in which case, chances are they're not going to be all that effective.

Lets not forget, these are still only rumours, and the first wave at that. There is a lot of room for manoeuvre.

I'll be interested to see what these mini-dread / Uber terminators look like... They sound horrendous, and I'd like to see how they rationalise it. 
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Cammerz on August 03, 2013, 07:06:03 PM
Well the grav weapons sound horrible, but it depends on their strength. If they're just strength 2 then my Bloodthirster can still hope to ignore its effects most of the time. Although something tells me it'll be Str 3 or 4 and we'll all need to bring hordes of Cultists, Guardsmen or Orks to deal with them, or maybe vehicles, perhaps vehicles will make a triumphant return.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: crisis_vyper on August 03, 2013, 10:29:20 PM
Quote from: Begel Dverl on August 03, 2013, 04:56:54 PM
*trumpet noise*

The might Dakka hath spoketh.

Quote from: Redemption 543907 5910181 df3d2375daa4391c1b3f8dfdc2fbca04.jpgBest_Pone over at Warseer (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?377950-Codex-Space-Marines), who was also spot on with his High Elf, Eldar, Apocalypse and Black Legion rumours (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/448304.page), had this to say about the new Codex: Space Marines:

Quote from: Best_PoneUp for release in September is the new Codex: Space Marines.

- There will be 7 Ltd Ed varients. 6 of these will be covers for First Founding chapters, whilst the 7th will have Black Templars on the cover.

- New weapon family: Grav weapons. I believe these wound against the armour save (so terminators would be wounded as if they had a toughness of 2).

- First Founding chapters will be getting a substantial section each to themselves, so hopefully this can be looked as as Codex: Space Marines instead of Codex: Ultramarines. This will also show in a rule called Chapter Tactics, for which the effects depend on the chapter being played.

- There is a new armour type that at first glance looks to be somewhere between a terminator and a dreadnought - looking more closely, it appears to go over the marine's power armour however.
- This new armour can be armed in 2 ways, depending on the user. The devastator version has either a bolter array or missile launchers mounted on the chest armour, whilst the gauntlets can be armed with heavy bolters, lascannons or grav cannons. The assault version has a bolter array or frag launchers mounted on the chest armour, with assault drills mounted on the gauntlets.

- There are 2 new AA tanks. One tank veterans will already be familiar with as the Hunter, armed an AA missile launcher. The other tank mounts 2 tri-barreled turrets instead.

- There is a new tactical squad. Lots of options as you'd expect, but of particular interest will probably be the grav pistol and grav rifle.

- A new plastic Sternguard veteran squad.

- A new plastic Vanguard veteran squad.

- New plastic characters: a captain, a librarian and a chaplain.
Hopefully this will finally dispel the consistent rumours about the SM getting some mega-dreadnought.


Salt. Lots of salt must be taken. Always remember the salt. Or did everyone forget the first rules of rumours? :facepalm001:
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on August 03, 2013, 10:42:26 PM
I find it hard to believe that Marines of all people would get new toys that just weren't all that effective. Tau have a good amount of 3+ and 2+ saves, as do Necrons if I recall. Eldar are mainly 4+ but there are more 3+s now Jetbikes are so much fun.

Yes, I know these are just rumours, but you can only react to what you hear, and so far I am not a fan.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: crisis_vyper on August 03, 2013, 11:10:27 PM
Quote from: The Man They Call Jayne on August 03, 2013, 10:42:26 PM
I find it hard to believe that Marines of all people would get new toys that just weren't all that effective. Tau have a good amount of 3+ and 2+ saves, as do Necrons if I recall. Eldar are mainly 4+ but there are more 3+s now Jetbikes are so much fun.

Yes, I know these are just rumours, but you can only react to what you hear, and so far I am not a fan.

Would be utterly useless against vehicles if the context of the rumours were right, and the author of the original rumour did say he 'believed', which a sign of uncertainty on his/her part as well. Not to mention that a lot of people tend to overreact anyway to anything. As always Marines will get the toys, but the general proposition is still that they are Marines, and will die the same.

I am more interested in the AA options of the Marines, as those could actually keep those that are using flyers to play it honest at times.

Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Rej on August 04, 2013, 12:29:26 AM
Do you know what I'm really sick of? All the whining, moaning and gamesworkshop bashing. People wonder why this websites become so quiet, it's because it's a pit of negativity that spends it's time attacking a game we're all meant to love.

I was going to type out a really firey and rousing call to arms but I can't be fragged anymore.

I for one am really excited for the update, not codex ultramarines? Sign me up! Sounds great, I'll be able to buy an Imperial Fists Lmt Edition codex? Great! Chapter Traits? Yes!!!! New units that and weapons? I'm cool with that, something to add  or not to my army, something new to fight, am I worried about it being over powered? Nope, I don't care, I play with friends, who also play for fun, the focus isn't on winning but having a nice game and eating ice cream after we're done. PLASTIC STERNGUARD WAHOOOOO!!!! I'll be able to make a sweet looking unit of ten now!

I mean, ohhh nooo, Marines are getting something new, the games broken, I quit based on these rumours from one guy that don't place the new units or weapons in context, in the codex at all or give us the actual rules.

But also

Quote from: Narric on August 03, 2013, 06:24:08 PM
I'd like to ask everybody who continues to buy into GW: Why?

Seriously? Go tuk'me yourself. But to answer your question, probably the same reason people having been buying from them for how long now? We had 40ks 25th anniversary last year didn't we. So quite sometime. They make quality products for a fun game that people enjoy playing. They've made an effort recently to increase the rate of their updates, we're getting a new release every month, it's great! Black Library and forgeworld are booming too! It's a good time to be a 40k lover.

I'd like to ask, for someone who obviously only has disdain and bad things to say about GW, why do you keep coming here? This website/forum was based on originally Tau, a 40k faction, and people came here to discuss and write about all things Tau and 40k. If you only have bad things to say, why would you keep coming here? To simply ruin the game for others? You hate GW and 40k, great for you, but frag off, take it somewhere else. Leave people alone that want to enjoy the game and stop trying to shit on their parade.

Edit: Thantos - reining in the profanities a level.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Thantos on August 04, 2013, 03:14:28 PM
Yea, lets not jump the gun here. Grav guns may indeed wound vrs armor saves. So your terminators become T2. But if grav guns are S2 AP- then it really doesnt look that bad, and its the equivalent of shooting termis with a bolter. Perhaps more of a problem for Wraithlords and Riptides, but i dont reckon it will unbalance the game (...much more  :shifty:) Plus they are already out at forgeworld with rules in IA?

The new suit of armor with chest mounted weapons which has no mention in any of the fluff... annoys me however. I dont like how they keep doing new stuff and rewriting fluff to suit the new models. There are plenty of things which need a model - the Stormbird, the Tarantula, the Reaper. Without inventing something unheard of before. Id prefer them to do great minis for these forgotten units.

Personally im going to ignore the bits i dont like and keep building my Falcon Guard jump marines chapter ;D Perhaps ill get some nice jump pack traits and tactics to play with in the new dex.




Try and keep it civil Rej, we understand your frustrated with the GW bashing, and i agree it gets a bit much sometimes, since we all want to be part of a positive hobby community. If we wanted to spit bile at GW all day - we'd go to Frothers Unite. But make your point without personal insults please.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on August 04, 2013, 05:44:52 PM
Grav guns are from the heresy series I think. A series where the imperium is at is height of technology. Sticking the stuff into 40k just imbalances the whole thing. We can be reasonable here, but these are unlikey to be less powerful than a bolted in terms of S. AP could be - which would be nice, but it still renders all the MCs they have been releasing useless. People who have just spent £50-75 on a now T2/3 pointsink now have very fragile glass cannons.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on August 04, 2013, 05:55:24 PM
Ok, from what I can see so far this is a very mixed bag for first wave rumours. I love the idea of it not being Codex: Ultramarines and a potential return to Traits. I may actually be able to get my 4th ed Chapter back without having to use a separate codex for the First Company. :P

The grav weapons I'm a bit iffy on. It depends on how widely available and how much they cost as to how I'll react to them.

The new units though, as Thantos said, there's plenty of stuff that doesn't have models which they could use without introducing new ones which have no precedent at all. Prime example would be the Tyrannofex. It wasn't needed, they could've quite easily just kept Carnifexes more useful than a chocolate fireguard while bringing in the Trygon, but that would've been sensible so didn't happen. Hopefully soe existing units will get models too in order to counter this.

So far not terrible and could still go either way. Not entirely sure about the idea of a second tactical unit though. As has been said, the whole point of Tactical Squads, and Marines as a whole really, is they're all-rounders. They're not supposed to excel in 1 area. If it's specialists and they're limited, then fair enough, if not then GW'll have their work cut out justifying it as anything other than money grabbing.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Narric on August 04, 2013, 06:27:28 PM
Rej, I apologise up front that my Marine & GW bashing can be harsh, and more often than not uncalled for.

Here is my stance.
I do not dislike Warhammer 40k, & Fantasy as games as a whole. They are great outlets for my creativity, and can be pretty inspirational (Horus Heresy that I've read so far, being an example). I however, do dislike GW as a company. I'll first use Codexi and Rulebooks as an example.

Today, the Warhammer 40k Rulebook is £45. This isn't much of a problem, if you purchase the Dark Vengeance Box set, as you get the obvious duo of armies, which do look pretty good, and it is a reasonable price. However, a similar book printed independantly, in a bulk of 250copies, would cost you £34 (through Azimuth print).
Codexi as we all know, are now £30 per book, and supplemets are the same IIRC. Thats roughly a 100page book, full colour, feature three unique sections for a specific army or race. Now I could take a PDF containing the exact same content, and purchae in bulk six thousand, or sixty thousand copies of a given book, a individually they would cost ~£23.
Now I understand GW is a company, and they need to make a profit to meet their costs, but charging an axtra £7-9 per Codex or Rulebook seems a bit overkill.

Another thing I don't like is the limitations of the kits, combined the overabundance of variety of kits, that pretty much kills any real need to be creative and do conversions. Notice how more people are going with just a single kit for a single squad?
Why bother converting a truly awesome Sternguard squad from the contents of a Command Squad box and your own collection of bitz, when you can just buy a Metal/Finecast/Plastic kit that is specifically for making Sternguard?

Then there is also how they advertise on their website. Did nobody else notice that during the Apocalypse 6th ed release, the Baneblade was treated like a new release, yet the Ork Stompa was not? I'm not saying this becuase I'm anti-imperial, but I would have preferred to have seen the Ork kit, as it would have given the release the image of greater variety, instead the Imperial armies were the most numerous. What are people going to buy? what they see the most of. Their sales are defined by their releases, which are in turn defined by their own preferrences, which are defined by sales. Oh so it seems.

The last thing that pisses me off, is how they treat their own community. When I first started, I remember their being community driven campaigns. Anyone remember the "Nemesis Crown" campaign for Fantasy? That got me into collective Dwarfs! Their site was split between a store, and a hobbyists dream. You could see what their staff were up to, you could understand what they did. GW felt like it would except people into its ranks. Now the website is just a webstore. its hobby pages only done to increase sales artificially.
And in this category is all the lawsuits I've heard GW prosecute against people. Chapterhouse being a more well known case, and the lawsuit against the american writer being a recent one. The case against Chapter house was a bit overbearing. CH were simply supplyiing products that GW had yet to even hint at releasing. CH was enabling Hobbyists to field the best builds to play the game GW had made. Do I think CH didn't deserve what happened? In some ways, yes. They used names and referneces to 40k and Fantasy like hashtags are used on twitter nowadays. in a way it was/is making money of anothers' IP. DO I think GW should have takenCH to court? NO! The Designers of Chapter House should have been treated as equals, and for the more skilled, offered places within GW/FW. The Lawsuit against the American Writer for using the term "Space Marine" wasn't the act of a company that cared for its community, or how it presents itself. It gave GW the appearence of a bully who picks the pockets of the weaker kids, just 'cause. Did the Writers' work have anything to do with 40k or Warhamer at all? not as far as I heard. What grounds did GW really have for persuing this?

I understand this may not seem the best of reasons, and I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with them. However, this is my thoughts on the matter, and unless I see a true change in the right direction from GW, I will not change my opinion.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Arguleon-veq on August 04, 2013, 08:17:03 PM
The Grav Guns are fine, DE Poison doesnt stop monster spam, Kroot Sniper Insanity doesnt stop it, Grav Guns wont stop it. They really arent very powerful.

Lets see what they actually get before we start calling them broken. Eldar didnt seem too bad at first but its becoming clear that they are utterly brutal on a Tau level. Marines have been very weak for a very long time.

Something that is happening in 40K and Fantasy these days is that there will be a book that is considered weak for years and they suddenly start to do very well as the meta changes. Nids were considered poor for a long time and then they recently had about a year of being a very powerful army again without getting a new book [they are back to poor now though thanks to Eldar and Tau!]. In Fantasy the current Orcs and Gobs were considered pretty poor and now they are winning big tournaments pretty often.

So not only should we not call out books as broken/weak before we even see them, we need to actually let them settle too. 
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on August 04, 2013, 08:19:59 PM
I thought Eldar were evil from the moment I picked up the codex. I was thrashed by a rookie with the dex against a fairly sturdy Tau list because of Jet Bike Spam.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Deraj on August 05, 2013, 12:58:48 AM
I hate agreeing with something as inflammatorily worded as what rej did, but I agree wholeheartedly. People are blowing stupid things way out of proportion, or just complaining with approximately half the story, or... complaining because apparently that's their real hobby, not playing a game, painting models, etc. If people don't play the game the exact same way or for the exact same reason, they're idiots. And to keep being on GW's side: I would much rather have the GW of today than the GW of 5-10 years ago. We get tons of choice, new codices, and yes, change.

Also; we've had graviton weapons for more than a year now in forgeworld, though those ones make you take a strength test or take a wound and have the concussive special rule. I'm just hoping either the primogenitors being in the codex or having supplements is something that happens, that would be great for fluff players, and I loved the farsight one.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: crisis_vyper on August 05, 2013, 09:46:28 AM
Quote from: Arguleon-veq on August 04, 2013, 08:17:03 PM
The Grav Guns are fine, DE Poison doesnt stop monster spam, Kroot Sniper Insanity doesnt stop it, Grav Guns wont stop it. They really arent very powerful.

That grav gun would be utterly horrible vs hordes (5+-6+ saves).

Quote
Lets see what they actually get before we start calling them broken. Eldar didnt seem too bad at first but its becoming clear that they are utterly brutal on a Tau level. Marines have been very weak for a very long time.

Always considered them strong, but the lack in some departments can be rather worrisome (Hard to kill 2+ saves reliably in close combat). But of course that saying Dark Eldar allies would cover that gap.

Quote
Something that is happening in 40K and Fantasy these days is that there will be a book that is considered weak for years and they suddenly start to do very well as the meta changes. Nids were considered poor for a long time and then they recently had about a year of being a very powerful army again without getting a new book [they are back to poor now though thanks to Eldar and Tau!]. In Fantasy the current Orcs and Gobs were considered pretty poor and now they are winning big tournaments pretty often.

So not only should we not call out books as broken/weak before we even see them, we need to actually let them settle too.

Agreed. I find Tau firebases a little too short for comfort, especially when several armies outranges them in shooting. That and a castling Tau has very poor options once they are surrounded.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on August 05, 2013, 11:47:10 AM
Castling Tau CAN have it's benefits once it comes to being charged. Having 3 other units within 6" of the charge unit will destroy almost anything, especially if you have some plasma in there as well.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: crisis_vyper on August 05, 2013, 05:16:16 PM
Quote from: The Man They Call Jayne on August 05, 2013, 11:47:10 AM
Castling Tau CAN have it's benefits once it comes to being charged. Having 3 other units within 6" of the charge unit will destroy almost anything, especially if you have some plasma in there as well.

Realistically, I find 6s to hit iffy, even with all that Tau overwatch special rule. Not to mention that there are a whole lot of things out there that can make a mockery of a firebase in the game these days. Wave Serpents, Heldrakes, Manticores, the list goes on and on. Even with Skyfire and all that Str 7 spam, all it takes is a good strike to open a gap for the end game.




Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on August 05, 2013, 07:11:11 PM
Markerlights, you can overwatch at BS 3 or even 4 if you use them right.

But im going off topic.

Right now, with what I see here, I do not like the way it is heading.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: crisis_vyper on August 05, 2013, 08:01:22 PM
Quote from: The Man They Call Jayne on August 05, 2013, 07:11:11 PM
Markerlights, you can overwatch at BS 3 or even 4 if you use them right.

But im going off topic.

Right now, with what I see here, I do not like the way it is heading.

Markerlight tokens need 6s as well, not the most reliable of ways to shoot. And back to topic.

Personally as to the direction of the rumours, Marines need something for me to have the kick to fight them again. :P
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Chris on August 05, 2013, 08:19:46 PM
As a dedicated marine player, I'm quite excited about these rumours... Although I am surprised over how small the gap between rumours circling and release day.

I'll wait and see if the rumours for a september release is true, it could hold off my bid to start Chaos marines for a good while!
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: salamut2202 on August 05, 2013, 10:23:45 PM
Quote from: Narric on August 04, 2013, 06:27:28 PMAnother thing I don't like is the limitations of the kits, combined the overabundance of variety of kits, that pretty much kills any real need to be creative and do conversions.
Good, I'm no good at conversions.

*shoots gun in air*

Am I the only one around here who did not immediately hate the idea of grav weaponry? I guess when I read it I didn't immediately assume whole squads of vets having them, infact I didn't see them being much more abundant then combi-weapons, except may expensive. It's a cool and fun idea, that you increase the gravity in a localized area and so what you wear can very much be a detriment to you. That and that it makes gaunts, kroot, cultists and guard seem like heavy infantry when used against them, which is quite a draw back. Interestingly enough, if it is more abundant that combi-weaponry than the codex keeps itself in check in the way of a wave of codex creeps seeing that what this codex is effective against is.... other heavy infantry!

I'm far more worried about
QuoteThere is a new armour type that at first glance looks to be somewhere between a terminator and a dreadnought - looking more closely, it appears to go over the marine's power armour however.
...Dreadknight is a terminator inside a terminator and most who I've encountered laugh at the concept outright. Is no one else trepedous about more space marines inside space marines (no homo...well maybe some homo) at all? I mean I thought Space marines had their elite heavy infantry. You know, necron warriors have immortals and lych guard, tyranid gaunts have tyranid warriors, eldar have wraithguard, space marines have terminators! I mean who really thought  of the idea of ;

"You know what I think is missing in the space marine armoury? Well armed, elite, heavy infantry!" I will name him Pillock Mcdipshit.

Now Pillock was probably the  one who thought that making a plastic nightwing would be too awesome so Eldar magically was out of a fighter, that tau who were into multifaceted and mobile warfare needed a biggah suit and eviedently had no seen the land speeder when he thought there was a role for the Stormtalon to fill or that the thunderhawk was too good not to have in the normal game so Pillock drew up the concept for its ugly thalidomide brother . Pillock probably gets paid a lot though, so he knows what he's doing. I do fear the next daemon engine that Pillock will dream up though, seeing he's now into the retro thing into taking Eldar Knights and Epice Chaos Warengines into the modern fray.

In Pillock we trust.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Begel Dverl on August 05, 2013, 10:37:31 PM
Has anyone assumed that these Grav-Weapons may be limited or even one of those Legendary Pieces of Wargear?

And, with all seriousness, I assume they could be taken by certain Heroes like Techmarines or Captains.

And besides, it's not like the Grav-Weapon can snipe your stuff from the other side of the board. It's probably a mid-range weapon like 12" or 18" or something.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Narric on August 05, 2013, 10:47:35 PM
My complaint about Grav-weapons, is the fact they are not a game standard weapon type. Its currently a one-off Imperial Codex exclusive.

Eldar and their dark kin would have far greater understanding of such tech. Tau have practical applications in place (vehicles?), so would easily be able to weaponize it. Necrons would have mastered the Technology eons ago. Tyranids would have some sort of Psychic equivalent. Orks are just Orks, and would just make the tech if they thought it would make killing stuff more fun/effective. Chaos Deamons again would have some sort of Psychic equivalent.

Imperial understanding of Grav-tech seems limited to vehicular applications (Land Speeders), and IIRC they're not really known for inovation in pre-defined fluff, so would not instantly think to weaponize it.

So why is it not a game-standard?

I am ignoring Forge World books for this, as I have never had much contact with facing/playing AI rules/units.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: salamut2202 on August 05, 2013, 10:56:13 PM
Okay, they look more like harnesses then spacemarines is spacemarines so far....
BIG IMAGES
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-l8UEDLlNc1Y/Uf5Ib2RkhhI/AAAAAAAAYFU/wHeUMPTn7nc/s1600/img4160681d06f11.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TJMp_DWRHsc/Uf5IbRYmCpI/AAAAAAAAYFI/bh286QzxBT0/s1600/img416068671a79a.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FzyDLgzdghM/Uf5IblN0_UI/AAAAAAAAYFM/-SUyNivLazM/s1600/img41606909502f0.jpg)
Source http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/september-white-dwarf-cover-and-old.html (http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/september-white-dwarf-cover-and-old.html)


So, now I'll just stand by what I said about superfluous kits, lest these replace devastators.

Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Railgun Convention on August 05, 2013, 11:15:45 PM
Those pictures look like terminators, but geared for moving with heavy weaponry rather than protection. So sort of glass cannon terminators, as much as anything is made of glass in an Astartes armoury. Could work.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on August 05, 2013, 11:46:58 PM
But the question is WHY? Other than money grabbing, why are they needed? Why are regular devastators simply not enough?
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: salamut2202 on August 06, 2013, 12:29:20 AM
Quote from: The Man They Call Jayne on August 05, 2013, 11:46:58 PM
But the question is WHY? Other than money grabbing, why are they needed? Why are regular devastators simply not enough?
This! THIS! Oh, my feelings are known to another!
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Deraj on August 06, 2013, 04:22:34 AM
Because it's cool to have new things. Some aren't great, but some are pretty cool. I'd rather not be playing warhammer with an army of white plastic beakies and MK 1 tanks, moving forward and getting more choices is always a good thing. Even if those choices aren't great. No one is going to hold a gun to your head and make you include them in your army....
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: salamut2202 on August 06, 2013, 05:37:21 AM
Sure, but there is a hellavalota difference between updating models for aesthetic reasons and new things for new things sake. I mean if they replace devastators then it's all good, but if it's a Storm Talon while the Land Speeder exists then...


Up yours Pillock!
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Thantos on August 06, 2013, 07:30:14 AM
Top left of the picture says Devastator?
Looks like to me, that devastator marines are just getting an upgrade, back towards the old 2nd edition style where their weapons were all shoulder mounted. Looks great IMO as the devastator marines were probably the most dated of the marine plastics. Although i wonder what all those new armor plates will do to the rules... please no 2+ save.

Kind of feel sorry for the marine with neck mounted missiles, if he loses his helmet. . . missiles tend to have a bit of fiery backwash when launching  :-X
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Cammerz on August 06, 2013, 11:50:28 AM
Anyone else notice that the top-left devastator is dual-wielding assault cannons. That does look pretty badass but I'm not sure such a model should exist in a regular infantry unit.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Narric on August 06, 2013, 01:06:01 PM
I'm suddenly imagine people playing agry marines as a legit chapter. I'm sure there is a character/option for a marine dual-weilding Assault Cannons.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: DEF Knight on August 06, 2013, 10:53:16 PM
just wait until they run out of founding Chapters to release, then comes the official Angry Marines PDF update.

Then you will know that GW has reached rock bottom. But in that act, having dredged up what should not, can not, be from the bowels of the Hate Machine, GW will become so much more. It will be a new beginning; an apotheosis. GW will reach nirvana, the ultimate culmination of years of increasingly capitalist toil. They will become the ultimate parody of themselves, yet the ultimate embodiment of fandom in ascent. The true face of bald, consumerist greed matched with the true success of art, the very quintessence of the creative endeavour made manifest. It will be both beauteous, and horrific. It will be heretical, yet divine. Exultant but hateful. GW will become all, and it will become nothing. And then?

And then, we shall see... and probably get a few more marine releases, cause why not?
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: salamut2202 on August 08, 2013, 06:49:57 AM
Latest from BoLS

RULES/BOOKS
- Codex: Space Marines with a very nice picture of badass looking Space Marine (probably best C:SM cover so far)
- confirmed the 7 limited versions
- none showed in WD, all mentioned obviously as mail-order only
- Apocalypse Warzone:Damnos will also be released (unsure if it's digital only or not) – Damnos (see the BL book "Fall of Damnos" – basicly Necrons vs. Ultramarines)


NEW PLASTIC KITS
Space Marine Captain & Space Marine Librarian (2 separate clam-packs)
- not to confuse with multi-part customisable Space Marines Commander set which should stay around
- those are like Cadre Fireblade, Aspiring Champion etc... 1 pose, plastic
- Captain has Cato Sicarius-like helmet and lots of bling, has a very similar pose to Captain from AOBR, Power Sword and Combi-Grav
- Librarian has beard (a lot of SM beards + bald heads in this release) and a skull-cap thingy wihich makes him look a bit like... Merlin
- Librarian also has a power staff (or whatever you call that) held horizontally, and one ugly cherub-like servitor cupid (creepy stuff)


Reclusiam Command Squad
- contains the mentioned SM Command Squad (don't see any changes here), a plastic Chaplain and... Razorback – all for 55£
- this definetly isn't the prettiest Chaplain model out there but it has some nice bitz, nice big skully Crozius and 2 heads – one bald with Kano-like face implant and the other is a skull helmet (looks a bit iffy)
- he also has purity seals with massive ribbons/parchments blown by the wind


Sternguard Veterans
- all the best elements fromt heir old metal versions, long loincloths, tons of bling, ornaments on helmets and armor, seems to have lot of bitz
- finally we get plastic versions of combi-weapons, all seem to be here including the new Combi-Grav
- nice new plastic Heavy Flamer and Heavy Bolter (version with drum-mag)
- badass heads and poses (yap, another bald head with beard)
- sergeant has a "Roman-mohawk" on his helmet (not the Sicarius one, other way around)
- 5 models in box


Vanguard Veterans
- slightly less bling then their on-foot veteran brothers
- nice ornaments on chainswords and power sword (relic/master-crafted versions?)
- mohawk head for sarge (like Lord Executioner, perhaps it's a trend for jump-packers?)
- some nice aquila markings on jump packs
- awesome power-sword / relic blade
- 5 models in box


(NEW) Tactical Squad
- 10 models, price increased slightly
- not many changes here, will nicely mix with bits from old kit
- major addition is more head variants and new Grav-Gun and Grav-Pistol
- some new ornaments on backpacks and shoulder pads (not all, just few bits to make some difference among marines)
- interesting bits: Auspex is back! (but DA heralded that already), set of bolter/arms during reload (looks cool), badass Combi-Flamer, nice new (smaller) Power Fist

Stalker / Hunter
- the rumored dual-kit AA tank
- lots of new parts, side armor is massive and has some kind of pistons that seem to be pinning it to the ground
- front plate is also different from other vehicles on Rhino-chassis: Stalker / Hunter has one that looks a bit Heresy-era with a "bumper" that looks similarly to the one Landspeeder has (that belt-of-cubes bumper thing)

- Stalker is the one with dual 3-barrel autocannon-like guns, it also has a nice radar dish, really badass look
- it's described as rapid-firing AA (guess it's SM version of IG Hydra)
- now here's big thing: it's not twin-link! those are TWO SEPARATE guns that are mentioned to be able to shoot at TWO SEPARATE targets

- Hunter is the one that looks like that vintage SM Hunter tank – one massive AA turret barrel
- shoots "Skyspear Rockets" but no details on special rules here


Centurion Devastator Squad / Centurion Assault Squad
- the "Big Suits" everyone is talking about, apparently they are this release's big spotlight
- Devastators are Heavy Support (duh!) and Assaults are... Fast Attack (what did you expect?)
- come in plastic kits, 3 models per box
- they really look like if the exoskelton is worn ON the Power Armour – their heads look super tiny
- they all seem to have same weapon in each hand and something mounted on the chest
- the Devastator options displayed contained Lascannons and Heavy Bolters
- the Assault options were Breaching Drills (like that arm FW's Siege Dread has) with Stormbolters(?) attached, no other arm option shown
- the "chest weapon" apparently gave us choice of : frag lanuchers, mini-hurricane bolter (?!) and some rockets (chest mounted Typhoon ML?)


BTW, the spacemarine inside a spacemarine - I offically hate them now
(http://www.anony.ws/i/2013/08/08/Fvpz.jpg)
New Tank
(http://www.anony.ws/i/2013/08/08/i1Stg.jpg)
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Thantos on August 08, 2013, 08:12:46 AM
Quote from: salamut2202 on August 08, 2013, 06:49:57 AM
BTW, the spacemarine inside a spacemarine - I offically hate them now
(http://www.anony.ws/i/2013/08/08/Fvpz.jpg)

:shifty: Groxshit! Why have 18 inches of armor all over your body and a bare head? Looks like Warmachine. Im going to pretend it doesn't exist .. la la la la la LA!

Reclusiam command squad sounds good, i need one of them :D And im sure they will do a nice job on the vanguard vets.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Wargamer on August 08, 2013, 10:12:32 AM
In the Grim Darkness of the Far Future there is only increasingly really. Fucking. STUPID design choices.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Narric on August 08, 2013, 10:14:21 AM
A person on DA re-designed Terminators to look like that.

Spoiler
(http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2013/011/e/7/terminator_armor_executor_pattern_by_orcbruto-d5r4qal.png)
Spoiler
(http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2013/003/3/1/tactical_dreadnought_terminator_armor_by_orcbruto-d5qaa67.png)

And these designs are from early January this year :P
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: crisis_vyper on August 08, 2013, 10:20:40 PM
Quote from: salamut2202 on August 08, 2013, 06:49:57 AM
(http://www.anony.ws/i/2013/08/08/Fvpz.jpg)
New Tank
(http://www.anony.ws/i/2013/08/08/i1Stg.jpg)

So I see a Marine Mutilator/ Obliterator/Ironmonger.

As for the Stalker, I like the looks of it.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on August 08, 2013, 10:53:39 PM
With regards to the Grav weapons, I have to agree. I don't see why they're Marine exclusive. Asdrubael Vect sent someone a Black Hole in a box ffs.  So long as they're quite restrictive/expensive however, I'm ok with it. So long as similar weapons are included in other codexes where appropriate.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on August 08, 2013, 11:30:34 PM
So Marines get to be the ones with stupid anti Air capabilities. Why Are they getting what does sound like an even more powerful HYdra? As if the Hydra wasn't powerful enough already?
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: crisis_vyper on August 08, 2013, 11:54:46 PM
Quote from: The Man They Call Jayne on August 08, 2013, 11:30:34 PM
So Marines get to be the ones with stupid anti Air capabilities. Why Are they getting what does sound like an even more powerful HYdra? As if the Hydra wasn't powerful enough already?

Honestly I would let them have it, and this is from a Xenos player mind you. It keeps the rest of us a little more honest, and also prevents them from being killed too quickly for our own good. They need to be a competent codex once more.

Seriously, we do not know the true range of the unit and how much points is the Stalker/Hunter. Those two factors will be the main thing that will decide its competitiveness in the new Marine army composition. So once again Jayne, just take this with salt until the true extent of it is revealed for good.  :facepalm001:

P.S: No offense, but we have been in this hobby for a while now, and we should be behaving a little better.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on August 09, 2013, 12:04:56 AM
Quote from: crisis_vyper on August 08, 2013, 11:54:46 PM
Honestly I would let them have it, and this is from a Xenos player mind you. It keeps the rest of us a little more honest, and also prevents them from being killed too quickly for our own good. They need to be a competent codex once more.

Seriously, we do not know the true range of the unit and how much points is the Stalker/Hunter. Those two factors will be the main thing that will decide its competitiveness in the new Marine army composition. So once again Jayne, just take this with salt until the true extent of it is revealed for good.  :facepalm001:

P.S: No offense, but we have been in this hobby for a while now, and we should be behaving a little better.
Your last point is entirely valid. However there's a couple of flaws in the logic of GWwhich, while not bulletproof may explain the responses shown by Jayne and others,

1) Marines getting a (seemingly) improved anti-flier weapon. Given the Guard's American ethos of throw enough at it and bring it down the improvement doesn't seem entirely impossible. However, given that the Hydra has pretty much been the benchmark for AA the Marines getting an equivalent/improvement is highly suspicious.

2) As I've already mentioned, if Grav weapons are being introduced the Imperium should be amongst the last to implement such technology. The Dark Eldar, Eldar and Necrons should, arguably, be the first 3 factions with this capability.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Railgun Convention on August 09, 2013, 12:19:23 AM
Just thought I'd throw this in; the Tau have a pretty decent understanding of grav tech, and are starting to deploy it in the field (inhibitor drone), so that's one more race on the list of "We should have grav weapons first".

On the other hand, Hydras cost less than a Whirlwind and come in squadrons of three. Your move.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on August 09, 2013, 01:05:21 AM
Well the Whirlwind is a weaksauce area bombardment weapon, and the Hydra is an AckAck unit that happens to be able to do good work against ground targets.

As fro the who coming in 3s, that is just because the IG dex needs to be seriously OP or it won't get taken seriously. They NEED Hydras and Basilisks and Leman Russes and Vendettas to come in 3s because 1 just don't do nothin'. Every other codex has shown that if you can only have a single vehicle in a slot, it is useless, so IG get 3 of everything.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Deraj on August 09, 2013, 01:07:06 AM
First off on the imperium being the first to get grav weapons: they've had the same gun for 10,000 years, IE since approximately the fall of the elder and when tau were throwing sticks at eachother.

And a new codex getting something better than what's in a 5 year old codex? There's no way to address that without sarcasm.

And a third thought: I would love to like those suits, the idea would seem great for a warsmith or an iron father or such, but.... man are they ugly. I do love the idea of them bringing back a mk 1 look to tanks though.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on August 09, 2013, 02:04:29 AM
A new codex getting something better than a 5 year old one, no problem. Getting something better than what is in a 5 year old codex that is STILL considered to have the best toys, some of which are STILL outperforming things from the current new codexes, problem. A Hydra or 2 makes flyers redundant. It has skyfire and it ignores any cover saves you might choose to take, it is TL to ignore IGs mid level BS because heaven forbid they have a weakness, and it's weapons have the range to cover the whole damn table. And it might have Interceptor, I admit I don't know that bit for sure. And it is cheap as all hell too.

WHY does that need improving on other than "Because fuck it why not"?
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Chicop76 on August 09, 2013, 06:11:02 AM
Remember that Marines can find lost technology and use it. What's possible is they could had gra tech thousands of years ago and rediscovered it.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Thantos on August 09, 2013, 07:54:23 AM
Quote from: Chicop76 on August 09, 2013, 06:11:02 AM
Remember that Marines can find lost technology and use it. What's possible is they could had gra tech thousands of years ago and rediscovered it.

Scene 17. Marneus Calgar and Lion El'Jonson are playing Wii Boxing.

Lion: Ha! Take that! Knockout! I beat you again Marny-arse! In your face!

Marneus: Whatever ... that move wasnt codex astartes approved anyway. It doesnt count...

Marneus slumps down on the sofa in defeat, his hand comes into contact with something between the cushions

Marneus: Hey!

He digs down and pulls an object out from between the seats, covered in bits of fluff, broken up tissues and the odd melted jellybaby

Marneus: Nice! I found another STC!

Lion: Oh? Really .... thats great.... great... really great.... HEY! Want another round? Ive changed the colour of my gloves!

Marneus: Yea sure, load it up . . . Hmm an STC for grav weapons... this must have been there since the heresy days! Hey Lion, i wonder what other STCs are down the back of our sofa!

Marneus blows dust off the STC and sets it aside ready to fish in the sofa

Lion: Yea not now Marny-arse! Round 1 is starting. Put um up!

Marneus grabs his Wii remote again and forgets all about the likely cache of STCs down the back of their sofa until the next time when Space Marines get a new codex released.

:P




New one
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1157473_598552766854416_1688600100_n.jpg)
Doest seem to fit with the current marines... although if its an old rogue trader style imperial robot... that would be cool :D

Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Narric on August 09, 2013, 08:28:54 AM
Quote from: crisis_vyper on August 08, 2013, 11:54:46 PM
Honestly I would let them have it, and this is from a Xenos player mind you. It keeps the rest of us a little more honest, and also prevents them from being killed too quickly for our own good. They need to be a competent codex once more.

Seriously, we do not know the true range of the unit and how much points is the Stalker/Hunter. Those two factors will be the main thing that will decide its competitiveness in the new Marine army composition. So once again Jayne, just take this with salt until the true extent of it is revealed for good.  :facepalm001:

P.S: No offense, but we have been in this hobby for a while now, and we should be behaving a little better.
"keeps the rest of us honest" Well, clearly GW release updates to ensure a balanced game for all races. We have never seen them Release something just because, or maybe to boost sales ;)

All it means is that the Riptide/Wraithtitan/Helbrute have something they have to destroy first, before continuing with the players personal targeting choices.

Yes we have all been in this hobby for a while now. Some of us are seeing more negative aspects of GW, while others are not.

Quote from: Chicop76 on August 09, 2013, 06:11:02 AM
Remember that Marines can find lost technology and use it. What's possible is they could had gra tech thousands of years ago and rediscovered it.
And theres the one thing that makes Marines somewhat a Mary Sue race. They will always be able to pull out their arse the best equipment to deal with the current (Meta)game, and they only need to say "We found an STC *shrug*" its an overused and quite frankly lazy tool to add new features. If we were told "The Mechanicum has been developing this since this first contact with the Eldar/Anomalous threat" it makes the equipment seem like a genuine addition, that the Marines and Imperium have worked towards. They've had to field test it, they've had to prototype it. It makes Marines feel less sterile. But no, GW will always pull "Its a rediscovered STC" because why not, they've done before.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on August 09, 2013, 11:21:00 AM
Quote from: Deraj on August 09, 2013, 01:07:06 AM
First off on the imperium being the first to get grav weapons: they've had the same gun for 10,000 years, IE since approximately the fall of the elder and when tau were throwing sticks at eachother.
If they had the tech then why has there never been a mention of it? (to my knowledge at least)

Furthermore, even if it is Heresy era weaponry rediscovered, that still doesn't explain why the Eldar and Dark Eldar don't have any grav weapons as their understanding of such tech would have been far, far superior even at the dawn of the Heresy.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Wargamer on August 09, 2013, 02:39:12 PM
Piss-poor writing is common in GW, but surprisingly not in Forgeworld.

Storm Talon vs Storm Eagle is a prime example.

Storm Talon: "Err... we found an STC! Yeah, that's it! An STC for a gyrocoptor gunship thing that was totally used all the time in the Horus Heresy! Yeah... that sounds right... right? STC!"

Storm Eagle: "What this? Oh, it's always been there... it's just not really meant for front-line combat. If you want to go in hot you use a Thunderhawk. Storm Eagles are more for when you want to get stuff down outside of the line of fire, or if you need to perform an air strike and the Imperial Navy is too busy. It's not something that really fits into the scale or style of warfare that Warhammer 40,000 represents."

Now, how brilliant is that? How simple, elegant and utterly believable is that Storm Eagle logic? They do it again and again, taking something that fills an obvious "well they must have something that does x" role and then justifying its lack of presence thus far in believable ways. Why haven't we seen the Leman Russ Executioner before? Because they're only built on Ryza. Destroyer Tank Hunter? A bitch to build and maintain, so aren't standard issue. Firestorm Grav-Tank? Eldar Fighters are so damn scary they don't normally need AA weapons - they can count on their Nightwings achieving air superiority! Squiggoths? Feral Orks are a lot rarer than normal Orks, so you don't see that many of them.

This stuff doesn't need to be shoehorned in. It's easy to explain why it's not been seen or mentioned before. You just need to know a bit of 40K lore and care enough about it to put some effort in... which, of course, explains why Forgeworld does this (or did, not so sure these days) and GW does not.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Vyper on August 09, 2013, 03:52:30 PM
Quote from: Thantos on August 09, 2013, 07:54:23 AM
New one
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1157473_598552766854416_1688600100_n.jpg)
Doest seem to fit with the current marines... although if its an old rogue trader style imperial robot... that would be cool :D

(http://i.imgur.com/A2rZVxh.jpg)

It's a transformer lol.  :derp:
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Pilum on August 09, 2013, 11:57:08 PM
Ye gods, I know people's tastes differ but those 'big termies' haven't just fallen out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down, they've climbed back up to have another go. I can see what the sculptor was going for but doesn't work for me at all. It's almost heading into caricature.
EDIT: Having done some poking about, and seen more photos, I now think the problem is mainly two things (ok, three if you count the flat, dull poses). The faces on the helmetless heads and the drills. Together, they just don't work. The faces are emotionless and a rather lazy effort, the drills are just plain ugly. HOWEVER. The picture on Dakka in the C:SM rumour thread of Ultramarines "built as Devastator squad" (below)... oh yes. Oh dear lord, YES. Especially the advancing guy bottom right. They LOOK like how the fiction presents Marines. They look, dare I say it, rather close to my mental image of Heinlein's original 'apes'. THERE are your 'true-scale' Astartes, boys and girls, look no further.

(http://www.anonmgur.com/up/dc5ea43c58a0eddf7360317e80ae3f32.jpg)

The 'robot' doesn't look too bad in a 'retro' way, problem is the retro isn't RT, it's cheap toys from back when I was ... well, a lot younger! It's quite a blurry photo though, so could turn out to be better than first impression. I can't quite shake the idea that it looks ... almost like a Titan (or Battlemech, or aforementioned toy) design that someone's figured out is just the right size to be a Dread.

The Stalker's quite good and intriguing; it looks like it's a lot heavier, more reinforced than a regular Rhino hull. Or have GW taken the opportunity to redesign the base tank? (Apologies here, I've not kept up with rumours if it's a widely known thing.)
EDIT: So it's artillery-esque bracing rods. Interesting. Is it a general redesign or just this kit?

Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: crisis_vyper on August 10, 2013, 12:27:29 AM
Quote from: Vyper on August 09, 2013, 03:52:30 PM
Quote from: Thantos on August 09, 2013, 07:54:23 AM
New one
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1157473_598552766854416_1688600100_n.jpg)
Doest seem to fit with the current marines... although if its an old rogue trader style imperial robot... that would be cool :D

(http://i.imgur.com/A2rZVxh.jpg)

It's a transformer lol.  :derp:

If there is a 'Like'  button on 2S, I would be clicking on your post right now. But that saying, it has been proven as a fake.


Quote from: Narric on August 09, 2013, 08:28:54 AM
"keeps the rest of us honest" Well, clearly GW release updates to ensure a balanced game for all races. We have never seen them Release something just because, or maybe to boost sales ;)

All it means is that the Riptide/Wraithtitan/Helbrute have something they have to destroy first, before continuing with the players personal targeting choices.

Yes we have all been in this hobby for a while now. Some of us are seeing more negative aspects of GW, while others are not.

Ever since the Grey Knights codex, I am rarely ever giving much care about the fluff, as they utterly raped the logic of the universe. :derp:

As for the negative side of GW, I will say that I like the hobby, but I can't defend it anymore as I saw how it almost ruined a friend's life thanks to GW quota policies. But at the same time, I will also say overreacting this early is like crying wolf before even knowing if it is either a wolf or a bear or a manbearpig.

Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Narric on August 10, 2013, 08:07:34 AM
Quote from: crisis_vyper on August 10, 2013, 12:27:29 AM
Ever since the Grey Knights codex, I am rarely ever giving much care about the fluff, as they utterly raped the logic of the universe. :derp:

As for the negative side of GW, I will say that I like the hobby, but I can't defend it anymore as I saw how it almost ruined a friend's life thanks to GW quota policies. But at the same time, I will also say overreacting this early is like crying wolf before even knowing if it is either a wolf or a bear or a manbearpig.
But when is a good time to be negative?

I was hopeful and positive up until the Tau release. Then I saw what GW were doing with the models, and it broke me. The faction that had gotten me into this hobby, the faction that was so close to my heart, was turned into a boxy and sterile robot, made only to drive sales. Ever since then I have tried to not let myself become hopeful, and everytime I'm right to do so.

Loyalist Marines are a sour note for me anyway. Partially from being influenced by the opinions of others, but also from my own observations. Being the Poster-boys of GW, really does mean they will always win. They don't even have to try. They are the faction that will always get the best toys, the newest ideas for weapons and Powers (Grav-tech, and SW Jaws of the World), the most likely to get a kit revamp. Every other race has had to wait until this edition to see any love, but Marines are still the favoured child.

[edit]
Just found this in my inbox on DA
Spoiler
(http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/221/4/8/bruva__i_herd_you_leik_powah_armaaaaah_by_mrrumbles-d6hf9ck.jpg)
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Pilum on August 10, 2013, 12:00:42 PM
It's an obvious joke Narric, but it has a point. Having a proper look in daylight and I can see the exoskeleton parts which spoil them a little. Not much, but... a little. Why not just make big, chunky suits and leave it there? If I was feeling snarky, I'd guess that they've made a unit that strictly speaking isn't needed - I'd guess they fill a similar tactical role to Terminators in-universe but new codex needs new shinies. I don't object to them in and of themselves (apart from the assault version as above), as models they're nice and what marines should have always been. But as an addition to a currently existing set of options, they do seem a bit unnecessary. Or make Termies obsolete, which would at least provide the semi-mythical "advance the timeline".
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Narric on August 10, 2013, 07:55:32 PM
Found some interesting info for you guys. Haven't read it yet myself, I'm just Copy/pasting it.

Link for links, as I'm not copying all that stuff over :P : http://dedard.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/rules-for-space-marine-centurions.html

Quote from: DED 'ARDRules for Space Marine Centurions

The Space Marine Centurions have been the talk of the town the past couple days. A lot of people don't like the models, don't like how they'll be retconning the fluff to fit them in, and of course it's the new over powered unit that everyone has a problem with. Personally, I'm not a fan of the models, but they are starting to grow on me a bit. I'm reserving final judgement until I see them person. As to the rules, the sky isn't falling and I hate how people form an opinion before we have all the info. Take a breath and relax.

Anyway, my favorite 40K Podcast, 40K Radio, has been posting some info over on their Facebook page of what the rules look like in the upcoming Space Marines Codex. Here is what we got so far and I did reformat this a bit for ease of reading and to fix some typos. If you want to see the original post, check out their Facebook page here. They also said there is more coming, so it would make sense to follow them on Facebook and give them a Like.

Rules after the break.


CENTURION DEVASTATORS

    Centurion "Devastators" come with Twin-linked Heavy Bolter and Hurricane Bolter for 60 points. You can have up to 6 in a squad.
    Can be taken as Elites or Heavy Support.
    Heavy Support are the "Devastator" option. They come with Twin-linked Heavy Bolters and Hurricane Bolters. Hurricane Bolters can be upgraded to missile (Not sure what kind. –TH) and Heavy Bolters upgraded to Twin-linked Lascannon or Grav-cannon and Grav-amp. (From what I've heard, a Grav-amp makes Grav Weapons Twin-linked. Nasty! –TH)
    Can upgrade to Omniscope which gives Night Vision and Split Fire special rules.
    Can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
    Special Rules: Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols (can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, And They Shall Know No Fear.



CENTURION ASSAULT

    Elites are the assault option. They come with Siege Drills at Strength 9, Twin-linked Flamers, and Ironclad Assault Launchers. They can upgrade Flamers to Melta and Assault Launchers can be upgraded to Hurricane Bolters.
    Can upgrade to Omniscope which gives Night Vision and Split Fire special rules.
    Can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
    Special Rules: Moves Through Cover, Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols (can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, And They Shall Know No Fear.


There also is a Q&A going on in 40K Radio's Freebootaz Forum with some additional rules information. Not to be a tease, but I won't spoil that here as to be one of the Freebootaz requires a membership and that just wouldn't be cool of me to do. You can register for a membership here if you need to know everything (Grav weapons are soooo nasty!).

Till next time,
–The Harrower
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on August 10, 2013, 09:41:33 PM
So. . .Space Marine Crisis Suit, done how Crisis Suits should have been done and better at everything other than over all mobility.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Narric on August 10, 2013, 09:48:32 PM
Quote from: The Man They Call Jayne on August 10, 2013, 09:41:33 PM
So. . .Space Marine Crisis Suit, done how Crisis Suits should have been done and better at everything other than over all mobility.
In short, a Crisis suit with Slow & Purposeful as default :P
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Narric on August 11, 2013, 06:31:17 PM
Sorry for double posting, but I don't think modifying a message will bring this thread up in peoples "unread" lists.



Another tip-bit from DED 'ARD, pictures of the new Tactical Marines:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yEJvu-jQTV4/UgcKPQv06pI/AAAAAAAAA8M/l-4Nv5I0xYE/s640/TacticalSquad.jpg)(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ic0CdJvDiE4/UgcKPkEPAbI/AAAAAAAAA8Q/FhVrdWvDZm8/s640/TacticalSquad2.jpg)(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7_lp5G6cWe0/UgcKPFz6j2I/AAAAAAAAA8E/rdWlnDOHF1Y/s1600/TacticalSqaudReload.jpg)

This next one is a pcture of a new Sternguard model:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Bot1IXBQF-Y/UgcUX7ZNoDI/AAAAAAAAA8c/To3NgblzaFQ/s320/SternguardSergeant.jpg)

Link to blog posting: http://dedard.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/new-space-marine-tactical-squad-pics.html
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: DEF Knight on August 11, 2013, 06:43:35 PM
It seems to me like one half of the team wanted SM to have their own Crisis suit, and the other half wanted them to have their own Obliterators, so they figured they'd just split the difference.

so. yeah. There's that.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Wargamer on August 11, 2013, 10:07:08 PM
Has anyone witnessed their "fluff" yet?
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Chris on August 11, 2013, 10:19:25 PM
There is this one thing floating around, although I'm not sure it was legit. I'm waiting until I have the codex in my hands, then I'll pass final judgement. Although, I'll admit, the miniatures are growing on me. With a bit of more varied posing, I think they could look very cool!

As for the Tactical Marines, I reckon they look great. A few new bits and bobs, some nice poses like the aiming and the reloading. And I love the Mohawk on the sergeant.

Question though, does anyone know if it has been announced when the supplements will be released? Are they going to be done seperately from the Codex? I need to know how long My Black Templars will be sat on the shelf for....
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Narric on August 11, 2013, 10:23:41 PM
Quote from: Chris on August 11, 2013, 10:19:25 PM
Question though, does anyone know if it has been announced when the supplements will be released? Are they going to be done seperately from the Codex? I need to know how long My Black Templars will be sat on the shelf for....
IIRC, I don't think The Farsight Sup was even hinted at before the Tau Empire release. I at least didn't know until people started talking about it.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Chris on August 13, 2013, 10:28:16 AM
Just firing this up again.

UNIT CHANGES
-Chaplains are HQ , W:2, A:2 and grant Zealot.
-Master of the Forge gains It Will Not Die
-Scouts drop 2 points, can take LS Storm as a dedicated transport.
-Tacticals drop 2 points.
-Devastators drop 2 points.
-Sternguard drop 3 points.
-Vanguard drop 1 point, jumppack option drops 7 points.
-Honour guard are cheaper.
-SM Bikes drop 4 points.
-Hunter/Stalker re both armed with s:7 weapons (Stalker heavy4, Hunter heavy1). The Hunter's weapon is AP:2 Armorbane.
-Command Squads may take bikes, and a bike-equipped Commander makes a SM Biker unit troops.
-Crusader Squads may take 2 power weapons per squad. Costed and equipped as Tacticals as standard. May swap out for BP/CCW for free. Max size 10 Initiates and 10 Neophytes.
-Centurions WS4 BS4 S5 T5 W2 I4 Ld8/9 Sv2, Squad size 3-6, each costed as a Predator.


CHAPTER ABILITIES
- Raven Guard have Stealth, may use jump packs in movement AND assault phase.
- Imperial Fists reroll '1s' to hit with standard bolters (Bolter Drill). Devatators/Centurions have Tank Hunters and +1 on the building damage table.
- Salamanders reroll failed to-wounds with flame weapons, and failed armor penetration rolls versus vehicles. Characters gain a free master crafted weapon. Vulkan is the only way to grant twin-linked meltas.
- Black Templars have Chapter Tactics options instead of Vows. The Emperor's Champion is an HQ choice for them only and chooses from either (reroll failed to-hits plus rending in challenges), or (gain Adamantium Will plus Crusader). No Librarians allowed.
- Ultramarines choose from one of the following donctrines:
a) Tactical - Re-roll ones, unless they're Tactical marines and they re-roll all shooting failed to hits.
b) Assault - Re-roll charge distance, unless they're Assault squads, Bikes, Attack bikes who gain Fleet.
c) Devstator - Re-roll on snap shots and overwatch, unless they're Devastators who gain Relentless (except when disembarking).
- White Scars bike equipped Captain makes 1 bike squad troops
- Successor Chapter use the Chapter Tactics of their Founding Chapter. Many Successor Chapters are listed by name.

NEW ITEMS
6 new Chapter Relics
Grav Weapons have Concussive

CHARACTERS
-Marneus Calgar may take 3 Warlord Traits and is pricier.
-Korsarro Khan grants Scout to mounted troops and bikes. He inflicts D3 Hammer of Wrath hits.
-Kayvan Shrike may Infiltrate with Jumppack units.
-Emperor's Champion equipped with AP:2 sword, armor is 2+/4+i
-High-Marshal Helbrecht grants Hatred and Fleet to Black Templars in the Assault phase once per game.
-Lysander returns with Eternal Warrior, Units in 12" re-roll on morale and pinning test.
-Grimaldus Grants Zealot to his unit.
-Several Named Characters retain USRs that affect their entire army.

Source: http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?33376-Space-Marines-Rumor-Roundup&p=337345&viewfull=1#post337345

I for one hope some of these a wrong... They condradict other rumours and some of them are ancient!
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on August 13, 2013, 11:59:16 AM
"- Ultramarines choose from one of the following donctrines:
a) Tactical - Re-roll ones, unless they're Tactical marines and they re-roll all shooting failed to hits."

Seriously? Because the one thing BS4 Power armoured killing machines need is to be MORE accurate. I have always felt that they were lacking in that area, only being BS4 as an all round type army.

"-Hunter/Stalker re both armed with s:7 weapons (Stalker heavy4, Hunter heavy1). The Hunter's weapon is AP:2 Armorbane."

AP2 Armourbane? These things better cost a damn fortune.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Begel Dverl on August 13, 2013, 03:44:48 PM
Quote- Salamanders reroll failed to-wounds with flame weapons, and failed armor penetration rolls versus vehicles. Characters gain a free master crafted weapon. Vulkan is the only way to grant twin-linked meltas.

In what situation is rerolling AP rolls with flamers useful? At best, they worst they'll ever do is wreck Dark Eldar Raiders or Ravagers.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Railgun Convention on August 13, 2013, 04:07:24 PM
I suspect failed armour penetration rolls is irrespective of whether it is a flame weapon. Although that would be OP.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on August 13, 2013, 07:29:39 PM
Quote from: Chris on August 13, 2013, 10:28:16 AM
-Command Squads may take bikes, and a bike-equipped Commander makes a SM Biker unit troops.

- Raven Guard have Stealth, may use jump packs in movement AND assault phase.

- Ultramarines choose from one of the following donctrines:
a) Tactical - Re-roll ones, unless they're Tactical marines and they re-roll all shooting failed to hits.

- White Scars bike equipped Captain makes 1 bike squad troops

CHARACTERS
-Marneus Calgar may take 3 Warlord Traits and is pricier.
Right, so a normal Captain means you can do a White Scars First Company list but a White Scars Captain means you can't? That's flat out retarded.

Raven Guard move faster than Dark Eldar Hellions, with a better armour save and, presumably, negligible price difference? Get stuffed.

Ultramarine Tactical Squads, if this and my math is right, now hit with 8 out of every 9 shots? I'm sorry but just no.

And why the FETH does Calgar get 3 Warlord Traits when characters like Eldrad, who are far older and have faced more, don't even get to choose their 1?
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Narric on August 13, 2013, 07:55:47 PM
Don't forget, you can have whichever chapter tactics you want, provided you claim it to be a "Successor Chaptor" :P

I find it odd that they've regressed in terms of White Scars. A fully Mounted SM army was one of my plans in the past. The price of such an army was it ultimate downfall to me :P Would have looked awesome though, and this essentially nerfs an entire Chapter. But then, if you want fully-mounted Marines, go play Dark Angels of course :derp:

Can't compare to Dark Eldar, they're a 5th edition codex, said the Space Marine Player.

Why are Ultramarines better shots than any other (non-ultramarine/successor) marine Chapter, is what I want to know.

Calgar gets Calgar treatment becuase he is Ultramarine, obviously :derp: Why are you even trying to compare him to some other non-space marine character anyway?

Mkoll, I'm not making fun of you, I'm poking fun at the rumoured codex contents. Just saying that now, in case my post implies differently.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Kur'os on August 13, 2013, 08:38:44 PM
Though I am genuinely excited about finally getting a BT update, I still dread the power armor tsunami that's coming. 

Quote from: The Man They Call Jayne on August 13, 2013, 11:59:16 AM
AP2 Armourbane? These things better cost a damn fortune.

I completely agree.  It sounds like a knee-jerk unit to cope with the serious impact that flyers/FMCs have had upon the game.  Just one of these seems like an easy button to completely shut down an enemy's airspace.  (Not that it was really needed given their already potent flyers)

On the other side of the coin, the model does look pretty snazzy...  >.>;;

-Kur'os
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: crisis_vyper on August 13, 2013, 09:42:05 PM
Quote from: Kur'os on August 13, 2013, 08:38:44 PM
Though I am genuinely excited about finally getting a BT update, I still dread the power armor tsunami that's coming. 

I have the 'Preferred Ennemy' rules against Space Marines of any kind. The more Marines I see on the table, the more happier I am in crushing their dreams.

That saying these rumours are meant to be taken with salt.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on August 13, 2013, 10:34:54 PM
Quote from: Kur'os on August 13, 2013, 08:38:44 PM
Though I am genuinely excited about finally getting a BT update, I still dread the power armor tsunami that's coming. 

Quote from: The Man They Call Jayne on August 13, 2013, 11:59:16 AM
AP2 Armourbane? These things better cost a damn fortune.

I completely agree.  It sounds like a knee-jerk unit to cope with the serious impact that flyers/FMCs have had upon the game.  Just one of these seems like an easy button to completely shut down an enemy's airspace.  (Not that it was really needed given their already potent flyers)

On the other side of the coin, the model does look pretty snazzy...  >.>;;

-Kur'os

But the whole big thing of 6th was "LOOK! FLYERS!" And now, JUST as the Marines roll out they say "Lol, Trolled you bro! Flyers are gone! Useless! What a waste of money!"
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Narric on August 13, 2013, 10:39:54 PM
Maybe Marines should be the first codex, and then all the Xenos/Non-imperium armies can get the sweet stuff that actually works, and is plled out GWs arse?

Nah.

GW would just Errata the SM codex every release to ensure it keeps beating everything else, or the non Marine armies will just get sucky updates. Or both.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Chris on August 13, 2013, 11:10:45 PM
Ok, so my previous post sort of summarised this, but I found all this (I'll stick it in a spoiler as its long), it goes into a bit more detail than my previous post. Same source as before.

Spoiler
The scouts went down 2 points and they can now take a Storm as a dedicated transport. They mostly stayed the same.

-----

Tactical Marines are fourteen points each.

----

Raven guard get stealth and the ability to use their jump packs in the movement and assault phase.

----

IF get bolter drill and that allows them to re-roll any 1s, it does not work with sternguard special rounds. Also Devs and Centurion Devs get Tank Hunters special Rules with a +1 on damaging buildings.

Sallies get to re-roll any failed armor saves from flame based weapons, also with their flame weapons they get to re-roll any failed wounds or armor penetration that fail to cause a penetration or glancing hit. Also any character gets to master craft one weapon for free points.

-----

Both weapons (Anti-Tank weapons on new AA tank) are S7. The Hunter is AP2 and has armorbane so it should handle most flyers out there.
-------

Vows are gone. BT come with Chapter Tactics just like all the other marine army. One allows you to re-roll to hits rolls and rending, when you're in challenges. The other one gives you Adamantium Will and Crusader. Also their ally matrix did not change.

-----

The only way you get twin-meltas is if you take Vulkan

-----

The crusader squads are cool because you can have up to two power weapons in the squad, if you take a Sword Brother. The Initiates are fourteen points and come with bolter, bolt pistol, frag, and krak. You may exchange the bolter for a ccw for the price of free.

-----

There is new wargear for Chapter relics, 6 of them.

Stalker has RoF 4 and the Hunter has RoF 1.

You get the option to take 5 bikes as a troop if your captain has a bike, also your command squad can have bikes.
-----

The Emperor Champion is and HQ choice and for his points will be a good character hunter. Those abilities no longer exist, they're just gone. The chapter Tactics they get are called "Accept any Challenge, No Matter what the Odds" and "Crusaders".

(Emperors Champion) When in a challenge you get to re-roll your To Hit rolls and all attacks have rending.

-----

Q) Does special characters still add the USRs/special rules that they have in this codex to your army/squad? EX: Shrike and Infiltrate? Pedro and +1 Attack aura?

A) Yes some SC still have USR that boost their army.

Q) Is it finally possible to take jump packs for our command squads?

A) No, only bikes.

Q) Can you confirm/disprove the "special" Rhino variants that were rumoured? EX: Medical, Recovery, etc.

A)Those do not exist. That was wish listing.

Q) Could you shed some light on the UM special rules?

A)Ultra marines are a little lengthy but they choose the doctrines of Tactical, Assault, or Devstator. The Tactical detachment re-roll ones, unless they're tactical marines and they re-roll all failed to hit rolls in the shooting phase. The Assault detachment re-rolls charges, unless they're assault squads, bikes, attack bikes and they get fleet. The Devastator detachment get to re-rolls on snap shots and overwatch shots, unless they're Devastators and they gain relentless as long as they're not disembarking from a transport in the movement phase.

Q) Are there any special banners that can be taken? EX: Banner of Devastation from DA Codex, etc.

A)No, that is more wish listing. You can have the good old Chapter Banner.

------

(Sternguard) went down to 22 points.

------

(Emperors Champion) has an AP2 sword striking at initiative and if you add the BT Chapter Tactics be becomes a challenge machine. He also has 2+/4+.

-----

(Emperors Champion) are only for BT armies.

-----

Once per game Helbrecht can give Hatred and Fleet in the Assault phase. It only works on units with Chapter Tactics(Black Templars)

------

Bikes are 21 points.

-----

Q) how big can a crusader squad be?
A)Up to 10 Initiates and up to 10 Neos.

Q) what USRs do Helbrecht and Grimaldus provide?
A)Grimaldus gives Zaelot

Q) what units are restricted to Templars?
A) Only librarians

Q) how do Castellans work?
A)You pick either a SM captain, Chapter Master or Termie Captain.

-----

1) (Emperors Champion has fighting stances. First one is +2 str and AP2) yes if you pick that stances, but counts as two-handed. the other stances gives you rending.

2)Yes he is always 2+/4+.

-----

Q) can castellans/marshals take command squads
A)Yes they can take command squads, but they are just Captains now.

Q) can Helbrecht take an honor guard
A)Yes because he is a Chapter Master

Q) what USRs and where in the Force Org chart are normal chaplains
A)Chaplains are HQ and Zealot.

Q) which HQ choices actually take up a slot, and which ones don't
A)Chapter Masters, Captains, Chaplians, and Librarians. BT can not take librarians.

-----

Only major change to dedicated transports is the Storm moving there.

-----

(Devestators) went down. Close to Dark Angel book.

-----

No way to get 2 special (weapons).

----

(Grav Weapons) Solid shot and they have concussive.

----

Dreads a basically the same.

-----

All Ultra characters are in. (They are) Virtually the same. Calgar can take three Warlord traits and went up in points. He's a beast.

-----

(Chaplains) Two wounds and two attacks (base).

-----

(Lysander) Yes he still has Eternal Warriors.

-----

If you play a successor chapter you will use the Chapter Tactics of the Founding Chapters. The codex covers a lot of the successor chapters.

-----

(Is it possible for White Scars to run an all bike army) Yes but you have to take 2 captains so you can get two bike squads to be troops.

-----

(Honour Guard) They went down in points. That is their big change.

-----

(Hunter Missle) S7 AP2 Armourbane.

-----

(Vanguard vets) They are 19pts without jump pack and 22 points with jump pack. Heroic Intervention does not work the same as last codex.

-----

Shrike can only infiltrate with jump infantry.
Khan give scout to bikes and mounted troops. His bike does D3 Hammer of Wrath hits.

-----

(Centurions)
WS/BS 4 S/T 5 W2 I4 LD8/9 Sv 2+

First 3 cost 190 and 60pts for each. Squad can be 3-6 suits

-----

(Centurions) The drills give a bonus attack to the assault version.

-----

No Termie command squads.

-----

(Transport capacity) LR = 10, LRC = 16, and LRR = 12

-----

(Lysander Chapter Tactics) Gives all units in 12" with Chapter Tactics (IF), re-roll on morale and pinning test.

-----

Master of the forge is almost the same. He will get "It Will not Die" USR and a 1+ to Blessing of the Omnissiah from the IH Chapter Tactics.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on August 13, 2013, 11:14:45 PM
It sounds like the whole damn codex has been wishlisted by who ever wrote the damn thing? Who is getting the blame for this abortion anyway?
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Narric on August 14, 2013, 07:24:58 AM
14pts for a Tactical Marine that can re-roll failed to hit rolls? ??? ??(`?´)??? ???

QuoteQ) Does special characters still add the USRs/special rules that they have in this codex to your army/squad? EX: Shrike and Infiltrate? Pedro and +1 Attack aura?

A) Yes some SC still have USR that boost their army.
Sounds like White Scars mounted lists are still in.
Quote(Is it possible for White Scars to run an all bike army) Yes but you have to take 2 captains so you can get two bike squads to be troops.
I spoke to soon, and who ever wrote this is an idiot. Two Bike Squads are not a full mounted army :facepalm001:




So everything got cheaper? Didn't DA have this for them?
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Arguleon-veq on August 14, 2013, 01:42:53 PM
The re roll misses on Tacs isnt a big deal, run the numbers on it and it still doesnt put them on a par with other firepower units released under 6th so far.

What is a big deal is the Raven Guard army getting stealth for free, the whole army;

6x5 Tacs with Skyfire Missile Launcher
6 Razorbacks with Las/Plas
3 Preds with 2 Las 1 Autocannon
3 Dreads [or any other good shooty elite unit] with Missile/Twin Linked Las
Libby
Skyshield Landing Pad

1750pts

You put the whole army on and around the pad with the walls up, your whole army [because the pad should be big enough] gets a 2+ cover save.

3+ from Fortification, +1 for Stealth.

Add to that; Untill it gets FAQ'd you cant actually ignore cover on vehicles [because they dont take wounds]. Youve got overwhelming firepower that is next to unkillable. If anything did manage to hit your lines you still have the whole issue of it being a nightmare to actually assault up a Skyshield because its so big that when your at the base of it, you cant actually see whats on top of it so you cant charge them.

Now the issue here is as much to do with the Skypad being broken as that doctrine but its this kind of combination that games designers need to look at. Its not like they didnt know about it, Eldar are already abusing it with Wave Serpents.

Raven Guard are brought up in a nasty industrial/mining place, Stealth[Ruins] would have made plenty of sense and still have been very effective but nowhere near as broken as you cant bring your own enormous ruin as part of your army and it doesnt start by giving you a 3+ cover.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Begel Dverl on August 15, 2013, 09:39:34 PM
SUDDENLY, MORE PICTURES

Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/roHKLo7.jpg)

(http://www.anonmgur.com/up/ff9c9ffa274b48ff4798f7515bcc909a.jpg)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Ag2MfvMFC3M/UgRKKDjC_GI/AAAAAAAAH1Q/2aeMHJ1EOKM/s1600/5f4e4da81c696ba19410b97141546087_77083.jpg)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2QIrLkWStE0/UgRKOBbr_gI/AAAAAAAAH1Y/P7cq895wlq0/s1600/d3424dab48459d02036905a2b4ff0c90_77083.jpg)

(http://i1.minus.com/iAbKwMdDVCSsZ.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/CV59qMa.jpg)  (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-pUdkUkmH7ek/UgdN8p-kVlI/AAAAAAAAG6s/zyxT7VfZbeg/s400/1376208246181.jpg)

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CGAE6yOSgeU/UgRJ8bH60gI/AAAAAAAAH1A/3Gd9GBAc1ew/s1600/1014190_646899495339860_259668101_n.jpg)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-X860st5N4Z4/UgRKAP3DyAI/AAAAAAAAH1I/0umZ4rfaMMw/s1600/551006_646901465339663_1379874471_n.jpg)

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IKSPApzW5sQ/UgRKQjA4c7I/AAAAAAAAH1g/wizQGCB7jtI/s1600/db1a358648f4b27285f57a5d9901da5d_77083.jpg)  (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2MLvQFIALGo/UgRJ40zBAhI/AAAAAAAAH08/oBRiCxWWaeY/s1600/55188cd402ec8d4ad3cc63ca918fb94d_77083.jpg)

(http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/at2/2013/8/10/f0fafa51ee5a171fa047d891b349dd91_11155.jpg)  (http://i.imgur.com/MRnhxDW.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/hNpOLOd.jpg)  (http://i.imgur.com/MgInKxS.jpg)
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Chris on August 16, 2013, 01:15:23 PM
Love some of the new sternguard. They're a bit too blingy for me, but that's nothing a hobby knife and file can't take care of! Buzzing for the advance orders!
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Begel Dverl on August 16, 2013, 02:07:53 PM
Quote from: Chris on August 16, 2013, 01:15:23 PM
Love some of the new sternguard. They're a bit too blingy for me, but that's nothing a hobby knife and file can't take care of! Buzzing for the advance orders!
Well, they have to show that they're better than everyone else somehow  :P
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Thantos on August 16, 2013, 03:30:43 PM
Love the minis. All great apart from the ones that im pretending dont exist  :shifty:

Libby is great, but im going to hacksaw off his cherub mascot who is way too freaky to exist anywhere outside of an inquisitors retuine  :P
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Narric on August 16, 2013, 04:17:49 PM
Gotta love how the new "Commander" model is just a redesign of the "Cato Sicarius" captain from AoBR :P Just has a Combi-Grav gun to spice things up ::)

I find the Combi-weapons of the Sternguard highly ammusing, as once I showed Icer these:
Spoiler
Combi-weapons produced by Anvil Industry under the name "Lance Carbine" (http://www.anvilindustry.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=60_104&product_id=276)

(http://www.anvilindustry.co.uk/image/cache/data/a-new/rifles_pistols/lance-carbine--400x400.jpg)
I believe his response was how impracticle such a setup was. This sorta proves that in wargaming, nothing is impracticle, and possibly that GW is copying Anvils' designs :shifty:

All in all, these kits are not very inspiring to me.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Begel Dverl on August 17, 2013, 10:28:41 PM
Is it me or do the Grav-Weapons look like they use the gun tubing from Necron Immortals?
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Wargamer on August 18, 2013, 02:32:04 PM
Is it me or are there now more Grav-weapons than boltguns in your typical Space Marine armoury? :facepalm001:
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: salamut2202 on August 19, 2013, 01:51:29 AM
Grav Pistol
Grav Rifle
Grav Cannon
Grav Amp

Bolt Pistol
Bolt gun
Storm Bolter
Hurricane Bolter
Heavy Bolter
Combi-weapons
(non standard space marine bolt weapons)
Combi-bolters
Psycannon
Vulcan Mega-bolters
Avenger bolt cannon

Heck, there's more variety of imperial fusion, flamer and plasma technology than gravaton weaponry and one of the grav weapons aren't even weapons!
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: crisis_vyper on August 19, 2013, 09:53:29 AM
Quote from: Wargamer on August 18, 2013, 02:32:04 PM
Is it me or are there now more Grav-weapons than boltguns in your typical Space Marine armoury? :facepalm001:

Is it me or are there more Marines within Marines than Marines so that they could Marine a Marine?  :derp:
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on August 19, 2013, 10:37:47 AM
Quote from: crisis_vyper on August 19, 2013, 09:53:29 AM
Quote from: Wargamer on August 18, 2013, 02:32:04 PM
Is it me or are there now more Grav-weapons than boltguns in your typical Space Marine armoury? :facepalm001:

Is it me or are there more Marines within Marines than Marines so that they could Marine a Marine?  :derp:

Yes, and the worst part is that the model for it is stupid.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Tactical Genius on August 19, 2013, 02:16:22 PM
Quote from: The Man They Call Jayne on August 19, 2013, 10:37:47 AM
Quote from: crisis_vyper on August 19, 2013, 09:53:29 AM
Quote from: Wargamer on August 18, 2013, 02:32:04 PM
Is it me or are there now more Grav-weapons than boltguns in your typical Space Marine armoury? :facepalm001:

Is it me or are there more Marines within Marines than Marines so that they could Marine a Marine?  :derp:
i acctualy quite like them. and the fluff needs to evolve or else the game will become stagnant.
Yes, and the worst part is that the model for it is stupid.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on August 19, 2013, 04:18:28 PM
But the whole point of the imperium is that it is technologically stagnant. The least they could do is come up with more than "suddenly, a wild STC appears! Its super effective!".
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Tactical Genius on August 20, 2013, 09:08:50 AM
what do you sugest jayne? how would you add new units to sm codex withoit these complaints. ay the end of the day from a game progression and unfortubatly we all need new fun units to keep it fresh with a new codex. theres no point in having a new codex ifyou dont get fun bew toys.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Narric on August 20, 2013, 09:54:38 AM
Quote from: Tactical Genius on August 20, 2013, 09:08:50 AM
what do you sugest jayne? how would you add new units to sm codex withoit these complaints. ay the end of the day from a game progression and unfortubatly we all need new fun units to keep it fresh with a new codex. theres no point in having a new codex ifyou dont get fun bew toys.
Allow me to point to the old "TODex" project run on this very forum.

Near every unit included was something that used an existing kit, or challenged the player to actually do some work to their army to get the best build. The only exception would be the Special Characters, which were mostly fan-made characters with completely fan-made rules and wargear.

The Dex would have been on-par with every GW produced Dex, and didn't need new models to use.

GW uses new Codexi as an EXCUSE to make new ridiculous kits. They skewer their own sales, by making Big Machines and Monsters, which younger children WHO OFTEN DON'T CARE FOR THE GAME ITSELF will only want because they're Big Machines & Monsters.

And as Jayne said, they could at least create some sort of believable piece of backstory for the new unit that isn't just:
Quote from: The Man They Call Jayne on August 19, 2013, 04:18:28 PM
"suddenly, a wild STC appears! Its super effective!".
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on August 20, 2013, 12:42:35 PM
The argument for how to introduce these new units is simple. Look at the Predator Annihilator. Of I remember correctly, that came about because a group of Space Wolves were cornered and needed tanks that could take care of tanks, so they strapped a bunch of lascannons to Predators. Instead of "A wild STC appears" they could try creating an actual need for the new units in a situation and then branch out from there.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on August 20, 2013, 12:53:12 PM
Forexample, the stalker/hunter. They need an AA unit in 6th, good reason to get one, even if the rules we have seen so far are stupid, the unit is justified. The centurions suits however, are somebody saying"you know what would be awesome? If the Space Marines had Hazard Battle suits!". There is no justification for them.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Chris on August 20, 2013, 01:27:18 PM
There is no justification for them THAT WE KNOW OF. None of us have read the fluff yet and we are only speculating that it will be a "Wild STC"... This is the downside of the rumour mills, we get some people who simply can't accept that the basic canon is shifting and new stuff is either being created or re found and so are therefore jumping to conclusions which they then use to judge GW... Its a joke!

Over the last wave of releases, we have seen drastic shifts, Necrons have become almost human in the way they work. This has introduced huge versatility, Imperial Guard have been enriched and loads of other stuff have coming out. Just because Stagnation has been the platform for the last 5 editions of 40k doesn't mean that something could happen. When the 5th edition rules came out, people were commenting on how Space Marines were becoming more seperate and autonomous rather than simple point and destroy weapons. Perhaps we could be seeing this unfold more in the new rules...

So rather than just have people slating new things on alleged reasons for introduction, how about to wait and see what GW do, and then judge them... Lets return this conversation to the actual Rumours... I'm just compiling a list of all of the so far and I'll stick it up soon... 
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Narric on August 20, 2013, 01:31:40 PM
And what will you say if our guesses and assumptions are in fact true?
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Chris on August 20, 2013, 01:35:58 PM
BIG GIANT COMPILATION POST

GENERAL RULES:
Veteran Sergeants are an upgrade again.
Can't use Special Characters from other Chapters or mix Chapters in a detachment. (further clarification needed)
Space Marines have their own Warlord Traits.

WARGEAR:
CHAPTER RELICS:
There are 6 different ones.
Two swords, one Bolter, set of armor, one Storm Shield and one banner
They range from 25pts to 65pts.
One Chapter Relic grants a 6+ Invulnerable Save. (It's unclear who benefits from the Save generated by the Relic)
Relics are not Chapter-specific.

NEW WEAPONS:
Grav weapons - Have the Concussive special rule, but are not Blast weapons.
Grav weapons wound the target based on their Armor Save. For example a terminator has a 2+ save so they would be wounded on a die roll of 2+. Against vehicles roll a die, 1-5 does nothing and on a 6 the vehicle is Immobilized and loses a Hull Point.

GRAV WEAPONS
Grav Pistol: Range 12" AP:2, Concussive
Grav Rifle: 18" salvo 2/3 AP:2, Concussive
Grav Cannon: 24" salvo 3/5 AP:2, Concussive

Grav Amp: Re-roll failed To-Wound and Armor Penetration rolls for Grav weapons.

Grav-Pistols and Grav-Rifles are available to all units that haves access to Pistol upgrades and Special Weapons, respectively.
Grav-Cannons are only available to Devastator Centurions.
Hunter Multi-Launcher (or whatever it is now called) - 60" S:7 AP:2 Heavy1, Armorbane, Skyfire
Stalker's anti-aircraft guns - 48" S:7 AP:4 Heavy4, Skyfire -Able to split fire.
Siege Drills - S:9 AP:2 Melee, Specialist Weapon, Armorbane

CURRENT WEAPONS:
Auxiliary Grenade Launcher - is now 24" Rapid-Fire
Shotguns are S4 Assault 2

CHAPTER TRAITS & SPECIAL CHARACTERS (Chapter Traits seem to also apply to vehicles unless otherwise noted):
ULTRAMARINES CHAPTER TRAITS:
Ultramarines armies may choose 1 of the following three doctrines:
Tactical - The Tactical detachment re-rolls ones, unless they're Tactical Marines, in which case they re-roll all failed To Hit rolls in the Shooting Phase.
Assault - The Assault detachment re-rolls charge ranges, unless they're Assault Squads, Bikes, or Attack Bikes, in which case they get Fleet.
Devastator - The Devastator detachment get re-rolls on Snap Shots and Overwatch shots, unless they're Devastators, in which case they gain Relentless (as long as they're not disembarking from a transport in the Movement Phase).

MARNEUS AUGUSTUS CALGAR:
Is now 275pts
Is equipped with Artificer Armour by default. May upgrade to the Armour Of Antilochus for +10pts.
Marneus Calgar can take three Warlord traits. Calgar rolls 3x on the Warlord Traits and rerolls any duplicates.
The Armour Of Antilochus - his Terminator Armor - does not prevent him from preforming a Sweeping Advance, and it has a built in Teleport Homer.

VARRO TIGURIUS:
Tigurius is Mastery Level 3.
He knows all Psychic Disciplines.
He can re-roll his dice when determining his psychic powers.
He can re-roll Reserves rolls(even successful ones).
The Hood Of Hellfire is now a Psychic Hood that lets him re-roll failed Psychic Tests.
Costs 165 points (down from 230 points).
Tigurius has the same stats.

ORTAN CASSIUS:
5 points more expensive.

CATO SICARIUS:
15 points cheaper.
Grants a +1 to Reserves rolls and no longer seizes the initiative on a 5 or 6.

TORIAS TELION:
Telion has the same points cost.
?Updated with sniper rules for 6th Edition.

ANTARO CHRONUS:
Chronus is cheaper.
He increases the BS of his tank by +1.


SALAMANDER CHAPTER TRAITS:
Get to re-roll any failed Armor Saves from flame based weapons. (Flamers, Meltas, etc, as per page 56 of the Rulebook)
Their flame weapons (Flamers, Meltas, etc, as per page 56 of the Rulebook) get to re-roll any failed To-Wound rolls or Armor Penetration rolls that fail to cause a Penetrating or Glancing Hit.
Any Character gets to Mastercraft one weapon for free.

VULKAN HE'STAN:
Vulkan gives the Mastercrafted ability to Meltaguns, Combi-Meltas, and Multi-Meltas.
Otherwise essentially the same.
Is still 190 points.
No longer makes Thunder Hammers become Mastercrafted.


RAVEN GUARD CHAPTER TRAITS:
They all get the Stealth USR.
They get the ability to use their Jump Packs in the Movement and Assault Phase.

KAYVAAN SHRIKE:
Shrike can only Infiltrate with Jump Infantry.
????


WHITE SCARS CHAPTER TRAITS:
+1 to Jink saves
Autopass Dangerous Terrain tests
+1 to Hammer Of Wrath attacks
All White Scars units gain the Hit & Run USR, except for Terminators and Centurions.

KOR'SARRO KAHN:
Khan gives Bikes and Dedicated Transports in the White Scars detachment the Scout USR.
Moondraken inflicts D3 Hammer Of Wrath hits.
Kor'Sarro Kahn costs 125 points.
Moondraken costs 25 points.


IMPERIAL FISTS CHAPTER TRAITS:
Bolter Drill - All Imperial Fists reroll '1s' to hit with Bolters (It works on every Bolter on page 56 of the Rulebook.).
Devastators and Centurions have the Tank Hunters USR and gain +1 on the Building Damage Table.

DARNATH LYSANDER:
Costs +30pts more
Has the Eternal Warrior USR.
Units within 12" re-roll failed Morale and Pinning Tests.
Lysander has the same stats.

PEDRO KANTOR:
Pedro Kantor makes Sternguard Veteran Squads into Scoring units.
Costs 186 points (11 point increase).
Kantor keeps his 12" +1A bubble
Kantor now has W4 and A4


IRON HANDS CHAPTER TRAITS:
All Iron Hands have the Feel No Pain USR on a 6+.
All Characters and vehicles have the It Will Not Die USR.
Iron Hands get a 1+ to Blessing Of The Omnissiah


BLACK TEMPLARS CHAPTER TRAITS:
A Black Templars army may choose one of the following:
"Accept any Challenge, No Matter what the Odds" - Gain the ability to re-roll To-Hits rolls, and gain the Rending USR when you're in challenges.
"Crusaders" - Gain the Adamantium Will and Crusader USR's.
The Black Templars retain their current Ally Matrix.
The Black Templars may not take Librarians.
Black Templars may take Crusader Squads consisting of up to 10 Initiates (i.e. Tactical Marines) and up to 10 Neophytes (i.e. Scouts).
Black Templar Initiates may exchange their Bolters for Close Combat Weapons for free.
A Crusader Squad may purchase up to 2 Power Weapons or Power Fists, if you take a Sword Brother (i.e. the Veteran Sergeant upgrade).

HELBRECHT:
Once per game Helbrect can grant a Black Templars unit the Hatred and Fleet USR's for an Assault Phase.
May take a unit of Honor Guard.
Helbrecht does not get Orbital Bombardment
Helbrecht now has W4 and A4

GRIMAULDUS:
Grants the Zealot USR to any unit he joins.
If a unit is within 6" of Grimauldus' Servitors, they gain a 6+ Invulnerable Save.
Grimauldus has the It will not Die USR.
He has Wounds:3 and Attacks:3

THE EMPEROR'S CHAMPION:
The Black Sword (one-handed stance) - S:4 AP:2 Melee, Mastercrafted
The Black Sword (two-handed stance) - S:6 AP:2 Melee, Mastercrafted, Two-Handed
The Armour Of Faith - Grants The Emperor's Champion a 2+ Armor Save and a 4+ Invulnerable Save.
The Emperor's Champion is an HQ choice and DOES take up an HQ slot.
He may be the Warlord.
The Emperor's Champion has Initiative:5 and Attacks:2 (not counting weapons).


HQ UNITS:

CHAPTER MASTER:
Now has Attacks:4 and Wounds:4.
Still has Orbital Bombardment.

CAPTAIN:
Equipping the Captain with a Bike allows a single 5-8 man Bike Squad to be taken as a Troops choice.
Captain is now 90pts

CHAPLAIN:
There is only one level of Chaplain.
Now has Attacks:2 and Wounds:2.
Chaplain grants Zealot to any squad he joins.

LIBRARIAN:
They use the Psychic Powers out of the Rulebook.

MASTER OF THE FORGE:
Now has the It Will Not Die USR.

HONOR GUARD:
10 points cheaper per Marine. Now 25 points.
Honour Guard retain Artificer Armour and Power Weapons

COMMAND SQUADS:
Can have Bikes
Cannot have Jump Packs
Cannot have Terminator Armor

ELITES UNITS:

STERNGUARD VETERANS:
3 points cheaper per Marine.
Access to Grav weapons.

VANGUARD VETERANS:
Have been moved from the Fast Attack section to the Elites section.
Heroic Intervention: Negates the penalty for Disordered Charge and the Sergeant auto-passes Initiative checks for Glorious Intervention.
They CANNOT charge after Deep Striking anymore.
1 point cheaper per Marine.
Jump Pack upgrade is 7 points cheaper per Marine.

TACTICAL TERMINATORS/ASSAULT TERMINATORS:
Thunderhammers & Stormshields cost +5pts per Assault Terminator to upgrade.
Points costs for either type of Terminator otherwise unchanged.
There is no way to make Terminators into Troops choices or Scoring units.

TECHMARINES:
No news to report.

ASSAULT CENTURIONS:
WS:4 BS:4 S:5 T:5 W:2 I:4 A:1 Ld:8/9 Sv:2+ InvSv: -

Unit Size: 3 - 190pts
- May purchase up to 3 additional Centurions for 60pts each

Standard equipment:
- Siege Drills (S9 AP2 Melee, Specialist Weapon, Armorbane)
- Twin-Linked Flamers
- Ironclad Assault Launcher

Weapon Upgrades: (ALL UPGRADES COST BETWEEN 10-20pts)
- Twin-Linked Flamers may be upgraded to Twin-Linked Meltaguns
- Ironclad Assault Launcher may be upgraded to Hurricane Bolters

Upgrades: (ALL UPGRADES COST BETWEEN 10-20pts)
- Can purchase Omniscope which gives Night Fight and Split Fire special rules.

Dedicated Transport:
- They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.

Special Rules:
- Move Through Cover
- Slow and Purposeful
- Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase)
- Very Bulky
- Chapter Tactics
- And They Shall Know No Fear

DREADNOUGHT:
No news to report.

VENERABLE DREADNOUGHT:
No news to report.

IRONCLAD DREADNOUGHT:
No news to report.

LEGION OF THE DAMNED:
Legion Of the Damned are cheaper and all of their shooting ignores cover.

TROOPS UNITS:

TACTICAL SQUADS:
2 points cheaper per Marine (14pts each).
Access to a Grav-Rifle as a Special Weapon option.

SCOUT SQUADS:
2 points cheaper per Scout.
May take Land Speeder Storms as Dedicated Transports.

FAST ATTACK UNITS:

ASSAULT SQUADS:
Assault Marines are 17pts.

BIKE SQUADS:
4 points cheaper per Marine.

ATTACK BIKES:
Attack Bikes are 45pts.

SCOUT BIKES:
Scout Bikes still have their mines.

HEAVY SUPPORT UNITS:

DEVASTATOR SQUADS:
2 points cheaper per Marine.
Flakk Missiles can be bought for +10pts.

DEVASTATOR CENTURIONS:
WS:4 BS:4 S:5 T:5 W:2 I:4 A:1 Ld:8/9 Sv:2+ InvSv: -

Unit Size: 3 - 190pts
- May purchase up to 3 additional Centurions for 60pts each

Standard equipment:
- Twin-linked Heavy Bolters and Hurricane Bolters

Weapon Upgrades: (ALL UPGRADES COST BETWEEN 10-20pts)
- Hurricane Bolters can be upgraded to Missile Launchers
- Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters may be upgraded to Twin-Linked Lascannons
- Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters may be upgraded to Grav-Cannon and Grav-Amp

Upgrades: (ALL UPGRADES COST BETWEEN 10-20pts)
- Can purchase Omniscope which gives Night Fight and Split Fire special rules.

Dedicated Transport:
- They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.

Special Rules:
- Slow and Purposeful
- Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase)
- Very Bulky
- Chapter Tactics
- And They Shall Know No Fear

THUNDERFIRE CANNONS:
Unchanged in rules and points cost.

VEHICLES:

RHINOS/RAZORBACKS:
No news to report.

DROP PODS:
Transport capacity has dropped back down to 10.

STORMRAVEN:
Same point cost.

STORMTALON:
No news to report.

LAND SPEEDER/LAND SPEEDER TORNADO/LAND SPEEDER TYPHOON:
Land Speeders have the same points costs.
Land Speeder Typhoons are 75pts.

LAND SPEEDER STORM:
The Land Speeder Storm is now a Dedicated Transport for Scouts.

PREDATOR DESTRUCTOR/ANNIHILATOR:
Predator Destructor is 95pts
Predator Annihilator is 140pts.

VINDICATOR SIEGE TANK:
No news to report.

WHIRLWIND ARTILLERY TANK:
20 points cheaper.
Now 65 points.

STALKER ANTI-AIR TANK:
AV 12/12/10
48" S:7 AP:4 Heavy4, Skyfire
Able to split fire.
Does NOT have Interceptor.

HUNTER ANTI-AIR TANK:
AV 12/12/10
60" S:7 AP:2 Heavy1, Armorbane, Skyfire
Does NOT have Interceptor.

LAND RAIDER:
Passenger Capacity - 10

LAND RAIDER REDEEMER:
Passenger Capacity - 12

LAND RAIDER CRUSADER:
?Passenger Capacity - 16
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Narric on August 20, 2013, 02:14:36 PM
Chris, I respectively ask you make use of Spoiler tags in future large posts like that ;)

I have a few thoughts on some of this. I'll try and stay away from previously dscussed material.

Spoiler
QuoteAuxiliary Grenade Launcher - is now 24" Rapid-Fire
Not liking this. One of my custom Character Builds was double Combat Weapon and the AGL, so he still had ranged ability, but mostly focused on Assault tactics.

QuoteShotguns are S4 Assault 2
Uhm, why mention this, they were before :P unless this includes IG Shotguns.

MARNEUS CALGAR
QuoteMarneus Calgar can take three Warlord traits. Calgar rolls 3x on the Warlord Traits and rerolls any duplicates.
As someone mentioned, it does raise a question as to why Calgar gets this, and no Eldar Character  doesn't.

QuoteThe Armour Of Antilochus - his Terminator Armor - does not prevent him from preforming a Sweeping Advance, and it has a built in Teleport Homer.
I nearly thought this was ok, but then I remembered Regular Terminators wear their armour more regularly, if not always, so why does Calgar not suffer the penalty of no Sweeping Advance?

QuoteVARRO TIGURIUS:
Costs 165 points (down from 230 points).

QuotePEDRO KANTOR:
Pedro Kantor makes Sternguard Veteran Squads into Scoring units.
Costs 186 points (11 point increase).
Kantor keeps his 12" +1A bubble
Kantor now has W4 and A4
WTF is with the funny points cost? I thought all characters followed the multiples of 5 rule for pricing!?

THE EMPEROR'S CHAMPION:
QuoteThe Black Sword (one-handed stance) - S:4 AP:2 Melee, Mastercrafted
The Black Sword (two-handed stance) - S:6 AP:2 Melee, Mastercrafted, Two-Handed
The Armour Of Faith - Grants The Emperor's Champion a 2+ Armor Save and a 4+ Invulnerable Save.
The Emperor's Champion is an HQ choice and DOES take up an HQ slot.
He may be the Warlord.
The Emperor's Champion has Initiative:5 and Attacks:2 (not counting weapons).
I somewhat like the fact the EC is now a Warlordable HQ choice. Just felt awkward for some reason with the old way.

QuoteASSAULT CENTURIONS:
WS:4 BS:4 S:5 T:5 W:2 I:4 A:1 Ld:8/9 Sv:2+ InvSv: -
Unit Size: 3 - 190pts
- May purchase up to 3 additional Centurions for 60pts each

Standard equipment:
- Siege Drills (S9 AP2 Melee, Specialist Weapon, Armorbane)
- Twin-Linked Flamers
- Ironclad Assault Launcher

Weapon Upgrades: (ALL UPGRADES COST BETWEEN 10-20pts)
- Twin-Linked Flamers may be upgraded to Twin-Linked Meltaguns
- Ironclad Assault Launcher may be upgraded to Hurricane Bolters

Upgrades: (ALL UPGRADES COST BETWEEN 10-20pts)
- Can purchase Omniscope which gives Night Fight and Split Fire special rules.

Dedicated Transport:
- They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.

Special Rules:
- Move Through Cover
- Slow and Purposeful
- Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase)
- Very Bulky
- Chapter Tactics
- And They Shall Know No Fear
No mention of a Sergeant/Character. which I guess is good considering some Chapter Traits?
Omni-scope is a bit of a cheeky upgrade. Aside from Space Wolf Long Fands, Tau have been the only army able to do Split fire (pre-6th that is, and ICR the other 6th armies atm)
Sema bit cheap for what they carry and can do. Though are 5pts more than a CSM Mutilator.

QuoteASSAULT SQUADS:
Assault Marines are 17pts.
A little bit too cheap. icr what DA was though :shrug:

QuoteDEVASTATOR CENTURIONS:
WS:4 BS:4 S:5 T:5 W:2 I:4 A:1 Ld:8/9 Sv:2+ InvSv: -

Unit Size: 3 - 190pts
- May purchase up to 3 additional Centurions for 60pts each

Standard equipment:
- Twin-linked Heavy Bolters and Hurricane Bolters

Weapon Upgrades: (ALL UPGRADES COST BETWEEN 10-20pts)
- Hurricane Bolters can be upgraded to Missile Launchers
- Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters may be upgraded to Twin-Linked Lascannons
- Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters may be upgraded to Grav-Cannon and Grav-Amp

Upgrades: (ALL UPGRADES COST BETWEEN 10-20pts)
- Can purchase Omniscope which gives Night Fight and Split Fire special rules.

Dedicated Transport:
- They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.

Special Rules:
- Slow and Purposeful
- Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase)
- Very Bulky
- Chapter Tactics
- And They Shall Know No Fear
Same comments as for Assault Centurians.
Under-priced when compared to CSM Obliterator.

QuoteSTALKER ANTI-AIR TANK:
AV 12/12/10
48" S:7 AP:4 Heavy4, Skyfire
Able to split fire.
Does NOT have Interceptor.
I thought Skyfire and Interceptor were the husband and Wife USRs for anti-air weaponry? Curious.

QuoteHUNTER ANTI-AIR TANK:
AV 12/12/10
60" S:7 AP:2 Heavy1, Armorbane, Skyfire
Does NOT have Interceptor.
I'd personally take the Stalker over the Hunter. Most flyers aren't very armoured anyway, especially none-imperial.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Chris on August 20, 2013, 04:03:17 PM
Yeah, definately should have put a spoiler on that... My bad.

The one on the AA tanks is interesting... There is a lot of bitchin going on about the lack of Interceptor, so As my understanding is, they can shoot flyers down easily enough, but if you choose to turn the guns on to ground targets, they need to be snapshot... Does this sound right? MAkes them a bit of a one trick pony, not sure how they would add up against a Devastator squad with Flak Missiles....
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Vyper on August 20, 2013, 07:45:26 PM
Quote from: Chris on August 20, 2013, 04:03:17 PM
Yeah, definately should have put a spoiler on that... My bad.

The one on the AA tanks is interesting... There is a lot of bitchin going on about the lack of Interceptor, so As my understanding is, they can shoot flyers down easily enough, but if you choose to turn the guns on to ground targets, they need to be snapshot... Does this sound right? MAkes them a bit of a one trick pony, not sure how they would add up against a Devastator squad with Flak Missiles....

Hydras don't have interceptor. Glad the Hunter doesn't, it could easily chew through most tanks otherwise. :-\
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Narric on August 20, 2013, 07:57:12 PM
Quote from: Vyper on August 20, 2013, 07:45:26 PM
Quote from: Chris on August 20, 2013, 04:03:17 PM
Yeah, definately should have put a spoiler on that... My bad.

The one on the AA tanks is interesting... There is a lot of bitchin going on about the lack of Interceptor, so As my understanding is, they can shoot flyers down easily enough, but if you choose to turn the guns on to ground targets, they need to be snapshot... Does this sound right? MAkes them a bit of a one trick pony, not sure how they would add up against a Devastator squad with Flak Missiles....

Hydras don't have interceptor. Glad the Hunter doesn't, it could easily chew through most tanks otherwise. :-\
I thought the Hydra did, hence my assumption of Skyfire & Interceptor being standard rules for anti-air targets.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on August 20, 2013, 08:05:28 PM
Armourbane does take AV11/12 down to a comparable AV8 though. Being able to damage any flier on 2s is just unjustified. Give it S8 instead, but why make it so damn easy for no good reason.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Chris on August 20, 2013, 08:18:32 PM
Yeah, the Hydra does have Interceptor. It was FAQ'd in.
So the Hunter will rape enemy fliers, but at best you'll just about be making back your points... If it had interceptor too, then it would just be unjustified....
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Vyper on August 20, 2013, 08:32:58 PM
Quote from: Chris on August 20, 2013, 08:18:32 PM
Yeah, the Hydra does have Interceptor. It was FAQ'd in.
So the Hunter will rape enemy fliers, but at best you'll just about be making back your points... If it had interceptor too, then it would just be unjustified....

Nope, only skyfire. Nowhere in the FAQ are Hydras given interceptor. Quadguns have interceptor, Hydras do not.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Kur'os on August 20, 2013, 10:15:32 PM
Quote from: The Man They Call Jayne on August 20, 2013, 08:05:28 PM
Armourbane does take AV11/12 down to a comparable AV8 though. Being able to damage any flier on 2s is just unjustified. Give it S8 instead, but why make it so damn easy for no good reason.

That tank's weapon is basically what I imagined the Broadside's HRR should have been, but at S6 instead of S8.  60" range, S6, AP1, Armorbane... 

-Kur'os
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Begel Dverl on August 22, 2013, 07:55:22 PM
MOAR NEWS FROM 40k RADIO

Part 1

Spoiler
Questions and answered gathered by Zion from Talkwargaming (http://www.talkwargaming.com/2013/08/codex-space-marines-rumor-roll-up-part.html#.UhX_hT9GOrQ)

Q: Is it true that what you guys have is an early playtest material, not the actual printed C:SM codex?
A: I have the final print copy.

Q: Are their any new Special Characters?
A: No.

Q: Is honour guard still 3-10 models, or only available as 5 models similar to command squads or BA honour guard?
A: 3-10

Q: Is relic blade still S+2 AP3 two-handed?
A: Yes

Q: Do Legion of the Damned get Soulblaze like in Apoc?
A: No

Q: Can the LotD still Deep Strike?
A: Yes

Q: Does the LotD still have Slow and Purposeful?
A: Yes

Q: Can the LotD be joined by characters?
A: No

Q: Does Cassius have the Zealot rule?
A: Yes

Q: Do the AA tanks have an alternate fire mode that lets them shoot at ground targets?
A: No, only one firing mode

Q: Can child chapters take the SCs of their parent chapters?
A: No (those are unique to their chapter)

Q: Can Pedro and Lysander be in the same army without using allies?
A: No (CF is one chapter, IF is another)

Q: Are Techmarines slotless HQs like the DA book?
A: Yes

Q: Can Captains still take Artificer Armor?
A: Yes

Q: Do Sternguard combi-weapons still cost 5 points?
A: No, they're 10 points

Q: Does Helbrecht have any other special rules besides the once a game rule that gives fleet/hatred?
A: No

Q: What is the cost of a five man scout squad with a Vet Sergeant?
A: 65 Points

Q: Any changes on Kantor's rules?
A: Basically the same (will be covered on show)

Q: Do bikes and centurions get combat squads rule?
A: Bikes yes, Centurions no.

Q: Is there is any vehicle able to get grav weapons?
A: No

Q: Are neophytes of crusade squad an independent squad that can join the main unit as it was rumoured, or crusade squads are a full unit option?
A: No, like last BT Dex.

Q: Is there option for crusade squads of getting two special weapons?
A: No.

Q: If one crusader squads takes a CLR as transport, it has any point cost reduction?
A: I don't have the BT Dex to check.

Q: Have black templars access to biker scouts?
A: Yes. They have access to everything except Librarians.

Q: Marneus Calgar "God of War" rule is still in there? Has it been replaced by the 3 warlord traits rule?
A: It's different and cool (will be covered on the show).

Q: How many points cost a grav-gun as special weapon on a tac squad?
A: 15 points.

Q: How many points are the lascannon and missle launcher upgrades on the Centurion Devastators?
A: Lascannon is 10, Missile is 10

Q: How much do Relic Blades Cost?
A: Chapter Master and Captain get it for 25 points.

Q: Does the codex include a Power Field Generator (DA Wargear that generates a 4++ for a unit)?
A: No
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Begel Dverl on August 22, 2013, 07:56:27 PM
Part 2

Spoiler
Q: Can Tactical Marines take a Special Weapon at 5 models?
A: A Squad of 5 can have a special weapon or heavy weapon.

Q: Can Calgar still take up to 3 units of Honor Guard?
A: Yes

Q: Additionally, does his still have the rule that lets him choose to pass or fail morale checks at will?
A: Yes (more in the show)

Q: Are Black Templar Characters required and/or accept challenges?
A: Not required, but they will be sick in challenges

Q: Bikes squads that can be made troops, a minimum of 5 models or 5 models max? there is some conflicting sounding information so people just want to confirm.
A: At least 5 (max 9 with Attack Bike) and if your Captain or Chapter Master is on a bike you make take them as troops.

Q: So Chapter Masters on bikes can unlock bike squads of at least 5 models as troops too?
A: Yes.

Q: Do LotD still have their 3++ save?
A: Yes

Q: Can the Bikers take the grav gun options?
A: Yes

Q: Can Scout Squads take locator beacons or teleport homes?
A: Teleport Homers.

Q: Does Shrike have any other rules?
A: No.

Q: Do Chapter Tactics cost anything?
A: No.

Q: The Stalker, does it have 4 shots total that it can split fire with or does each gun fire 4 shots each?
A: 4 shots each (this will be covered on the show)

Q: Do any of the SC's have Stubborn or Fearless?
A: No

Q: Does the Emperor's Champion take up an HQ slot?
A: Yes

Q: Does Sicarius still re-roll his Sieze Initiative attempts?
A: No

Q: Any change to Razorbacks?
A: I believe they went up 5 points

Q: Does the Ultramarines Tactical Chapter Tactic affect Sternguard special ammo?
A: I believe so.

Q: Also, are bike upgrades for Space Marine Captains cheaper?
A: I think the upgrade stayed the same.

Q: Are normal bikes cheaper?
A: Yes

Q: Are all these answers from an early rendition or playtest and subject to change? Or are these concrete answers from a full codex?
A: The book I have looks like the final. If this is a fake then a ton of effort has gone into this.


Q: Is there any way to assault from vehicles besides assault ramps on land raiders and stormravens?
A: The Land Speeder Storm.

Q: How do Successor Chapters work exactly?
A: This will be covered on the 1 Sept show. The answer is really long and it's easier to just explain it verbally than type it out.

Q: If you have two different chapters that use the same chapter tactic, can they ally to each other?
A: This will als be covered on the 1 Sept show.

Q: How do Camo Cloaks work?
A: +1 to cover, or 6+ cover if not in cover

Q: Can any of the HQs get Camo Cloaks?
A: No

Q: Is there a way to get Eternal Warrior?
A: Yes (will be covered in show (Zion's Speculation: It's a Relic))

Q: Can any of the HQs buy any special rules?
A: No

Q: Do the HQs still have access to Hellfire rounds?
A: No

Q: Can we get a rundown on what Grav Weapons will cost?
A: Grav will be on the show.

Q: In 5th Edition you were encouraged to use SCs as "Count-As" special characters to give you some new/interesting combinations. Is there anything in the new book that allows you to do this?
A: You can no longer do that due to Chapter Tactics.

Q: Just to confirm, this means the Camo Cloaks and the Raven Guard Chapter Tactic stack, right? +2 to their cover saves for having both?
A: They do stack, but there is a caveat to the Raven Guard rule that will be covered on the show. All Chapter Tactics will be covered on the show.

Q: BT High Marshal (Chapter Master equivalent?) Helbrecht has no Orbital Bombardment, but BT can take a "regular" Chapter Master and get the OB from him?
A: Correct, Helbrecht does not have it, but regular Chapter Masters do.

Q: Have Razorback weapon upgrades gotten cheaper, more expensive or stayed the same?
A: Some went down.

Q: How much do Relic Blades cost for Honor Guard?
A: 10 points.

Q: You mentioned that the Raven Guard Chapter Tactics have a caveat. Do all the Chapter Tactics have special caveats in how they can be used?
A: No, there are other rules for RG we didn't mention.

Q: Do these caveats require certain minumum requirements of units or wargear?
A: No.

Q: Are the Drop Pods priced like the DA ones (to include upgrades)?
A: Similiar.

Q: When making an army, are you required to take a chapter trait?
A: Yes.

Q: Is the Exorcists Chapter covered in the list of different Marine chapters/successors in the book?
A: Yes, there is a small blurb, but the do not have a parent chapter.


Q: Are any of these caveats negative things (like the old 4th edition flaws)?
A: No. The caveat is we have not revealed all the abilities for some chapters.

Q: Is there any clue you can give us on the nature of these caveats?
A: There are many layers to the CTs (no negatives).

Q: Did the points cost change for Power Weapons?
A: Generally the same, per units choices.

Q: Did the points cost change for Power Fists?
A: PF same.

Q: How much do Crusader Squads pay for Power Weapons?
A: 15.

Q: Can the Initiate in a Crusader Squad take a Power Fist?
A: Yes at 25 points.

Q: How does the limit for the extra power weapon in the Crusader squad work. Is it just 1 Initiate or is it 1 per X number of models in the squad?
A: 1 Initiate and then upgrade one to Sword Brother and you can get another.

Q: How do scouts look?
A: The scouts went down 2 points and they can now take a Storm as a dedicated transport. They mostly stayed the same.

Q: How about Marines?
A: Tactical Marines are 14 points each.

Q: What do Raven Guard get?
A: Raven guard get stealth and the ability to use their jump packs in the movement and assault phase.

Q: What are the Imperial Fists chapter traits?
A: IF get bolter drill and that allows them to re-roll any 1s, it does not work with sternguard special rounds. Also Devs and Centurion Devs get Tank Hunters special Rules with a +1 on damaging buildings.

Q: What did Salamanders get?
A: Sallies get to re-roll any failed armor saves from flame based weapons, also with their flame weapons they get to re-roll any failed wounds or armor penetration that fail to cause a penetration or glancing hit. Also any character gets to master craft one weapon for free points.

Q: What's up with the new tanks?
A: both weapons are S7. The Hunter is AP2 and has armorbane so it should handle most flyers out there.

Q: What do the Templars look like?
A: Vows are gone. BT come with Chapter Tactics just like all the other marine army. One allows you to re-roll to hits rolls and rending, when you're in challenges. The other one gives you Adamantium Will and Crusader. Also their ally matrix did not change.

Q: How do homebrew/unknown lineage chapters work?
A: If you're an unknow founding or a home brew chapter you can pick what Chapter Tactics you want.

Q: What's the situation with Crusader Squads?
A: The crusader squads are cool because you can have up to two power weapons in the squad, if you take a Sword Brother. The Initiates are fourteen points and come with bolter, bolt pistol, frag, and krak. You may exchange the bolter for a ccw for the price of free.

Q: Any new wargear (along the lines of auspex from DA codex)?
A: There is new wargear for Chapter relics, 6 of them.

Q: How high is the rate of fire for the other AA tank?
A: Stalker has RoF 4 and the Hunter has RoF 1.

Q: Can you please confirm whether or not pure bike armies are no longer legal to field?
A: No you can not. You get the option to take 5 bikes as a troop if your captain has a bike, also your command squad can have bikes.

Q: Are storm ravens/storm talons in the book. or are we required to use "Death from the Skies"?
A: Yes they are in the book and you do not need Death from the Skies.

Q: Do UM retain their "fall-back from combat and may act normally" ability? Thanks in advance!
A: No that rule does not exist anymore. Like all the chapters their Chapter Tactics are set.

Q: What is going on with the Emperor's Champion?
A: The Emperor Champion is and HQ choice and for his points will be a good character hunter. Those abilities no longer exist, they're just gone. The chapter Tactics they get are called "Accept any Challenge, No Matter what the Odds" and "Crusaders"

Q: Does special characters still add the USRs/special rules that they have in this codex to your army/squad? EX: Shrike and Infiltrate? Pedro and +1 Attack aura?
A: Yes some SC still have USR that boost their army.

Q: Is it finally possible to take jump packs for our command squads?
A: No, Only bikes.

Q: Can you confirm/disprove the "special" Rhino variants that were rumoured? EX: Medical, Recovery, etc.
A: Those do not exist. That was wish listing.

Q: Could you shed some light on the UM special rules?
A: Ultra marines are a little lengthy but they choose the doctrines of Tactical, Assault, or Devstator. The Tactical detachment re-roll ones, unless they're tactical marines and they re-roll all failed to hit rolls in the shooting phase. The Assault detachment re-rolls charges, unless they're assault squads, bikes, attack bikes and they get fleet. The Devastator detachment get to re-rolls on snap shots and overwatch shots, unless they're Devastators and they gain relentless as long as they're not disembarking from a transport in the movement phase.

Q: Are there any special banners that can be taken? EX: Banner of Devastation from DA Codex, etc.
A: No, that is more wish listing. You can have the good old Chapter Banner.

Q: Did sternguard special ammo change at all?
A: Remained the same, SG went down to 22 points

Q: Are there any other scoring units besides sternguard, tac, and scouts?
A: Only Tac and scouts. SG if you take Kantor and 5 man bike squad if you take a Captain on a bike.

Q: Any changes at all to the Black Sword or is the EC just some sort of challenge monkey now? I wonder what "for his points will be a good character hunter" could mean.
A: EC has an AP2 sword striking at initiative and if you add the BT Chapter Tactics be becomes a challenge machine. He also has 2+/4+.

Q: Thank you so much, a final question, the BT situation sounds like we were better off with a 4th ed codex, do the special characters give anything special? What does Helbrecht and Grimaldus look like and do for the army?
A: No they do not add anything. They've been basically upgraded to 6th ed. For a BT will be happy with all the options they will have.

Q: Just out of curiosity, does Accept any challenge give them rending in Challenges, or allows them to reroll rending throws?
A: They have rending.

Q: Is there any way for Templars to have access to CC boosting USRs via characters?
A: Once per game Helbrecht can give Hatred and Fleet in the Assault phase. It only works on units with Chapter Tactics(Black Templars)

Q: Any idea if the Champion is still BT-only or they opened it up for other chapters that have them in the fluff (IF and CF for example)?
A: EC are only for BT armies.

Q: Is that 3-5 man bike squad as troops, or 5-10 man bike squads to count as troops? Also, is the attack bike still an upgrade to a bike squad, as well as a separate choice?
A: Its a 3-5 man. You can upgrade one to an attack bike.

Q: how big can a crusader squad be?
A: Up to 10 Initiates and up to 10 Neos.

Q: what USRs do Helbrecht and Grimaldus provide?
A: Grimaldus gives Zaelot

Q: what units are restricted to Templars?
A: Only librarians

Q: how do Castellans work?
A: You pick either a SM captain, Chapter Master or Termie Captain.

Q: Does the Emperor's Champion's sword still have the +2 to strength in addition to being AP2?
A: Yes if you pick that stances, but counts as two-handed. the other stances gives you rending.

Q: And does the 4++ invulnerability now work outside of close combat, too?
A: Yes he is always 2+/4+.

Q: can castellans/marshals take command squads
A: Yes they can take command squads, but they are just Captains now.

Q: can Helbrecht take an honor guard
A: Yes because he is a Chapter Master

Q: what USRs and where in the Force Org chart are normal chaplains
A: Chaplains are HQ and Zealot.

Q: which HQ choices actually take up a slot, and which ones don't
A: Chapter Masters, Captains, Chaplians, and Librarians. BT can not take librarians.

Q: did the costs of dedicated transports change?
A: Only major change to dedicated transports is the Storm moving there.

Q: also, do you mind sharing any changes to devestator costs or the potential load-outs for tac squads?
A: Devs went down. Close to Dark Angel book.

Q: any way to get 2 special weapons?
A: No way to get 2 specials.

Q: Are grav weapons solid shots or blast? Do they have any other special rules ex: haywire?
A: Solid shot and they have concussive

Q: Any improvements to dreads?
A: Dreads are basically the same.

Q: Are the whole range of Ultramarines Special Characters still in there?
Calgar, Tigurius, Cassius, Chronus, Telion, and Sicarius?
What do they do nowadays?
A: Yes all Ultra characters are in and are Virtually the same. Calgar can take three Warlord traits and went up in points. He's a beast.

Q: If BT indeed use regular SM Chaplain entry, do the chaplains have two or three wounds, and two or three base attacks?
A: W2 A2

Q: Does Lysander give any special rules?
A: No. He went up in points but he is still gnarly.

Q: Can Sternguard become Troops?
A: No they can not. Kantor allows them to be scoring.

Q: Does Lysander still have Eternal Warrior?
A: Yes, he still has EW.

Q: You covered BT, UM, Ravenguard, Fists, Salamanders, and Iron Hands. Is that all of the chapters? Or are there more special chapter rules for other chapters?
A: If you play a successor chapter you will use the Chapter Tactics of the Founding Chapters. The codex covers a lot of the successor chapters.

Q: So to confirm, you can't take an all bike army?
A: Yes but you have to take 2 captains so you can get two bike squads to be troops.

Q: Any change to Honor Guard?
A: They went down in points. That is their big change.

Q: Is there any way to get an extra attack on tacticals? Such as a combat blade?
A: There is no way to do that.

Q: Did Vindicators change in price or function?
A: Right about same points. No big change, basically the same.

Remember that CF with use the Imperial Fist Chapter Tactics.

Vanguard Veterans are 19pts without jump pack and 22 points with jump pack. Heroic Intervention does not work the same as last codex.

Q: Can we just get the whole Centurion statline out of the way once and for all?
A: WS/BS 4 S/T 5 W2 I4 LD8/9 Sv 2+

Q: Any changes to Shrike or Kor'sarro?
A: Shrike can only infiltrate with jump infantry.
Khan give scout to bikes and mounted troops. His bike does D3 Hammer of Wrath hits.

Q: For salamanders. Do flame weapons include melta and flamestom cannon. Also what does vulkan do for the army?
A: Only for flame weapons covered on page 56 of the Rulebook. Meltas get twin-linked if you take Vulkan.

Q: For BT Chapter tactics, is the reroll and rending only in a challenge? Or is it reroll all the time and rending in challenge?
A: Yes that is only in a challenge. When in a challenge you get to re-roll your To Hit rolls and all attacks have rending.

Q: How many attacks do the Centurians have?
A: 1A and Sgt 2A. The drills give a bonus attack to the assault version...

Q: Would you happen to know if the capacity on the land raider is still 12?
A: LR = 10, LRC = 16, and LRR = 12

Q: Are there terminator command squads?
A: No Termie command squads.

Q: What buffs does Lysander have other than EW?
A: Gives all units in 12" with Chapter Tactics (IF), re-roll on morale and pinning test.

Q: So only characters benefit from the BT chapter tactic?
A: Yes for challenges. Your army also gets Crusader USR and Adamantium Will USR.

Q: What does Grimauldus specifically give? You mentioned Zealot, is that army wide?
A: No army wide rule. Zealot USR works for him and the unit he is in. If a units is within 6" of the servitors they get a 6+ invul.

Q: Any special characters for Iron Hands?
A: No Iron Hands Characters.

Q: Any changes to the Master of the Forge?
A: Master of the forge is almost the same. He will get "It Will not Die" USR and a 1+ to Blessing of the Omnissiah from the IH Chapter Tactics.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Begel Dverl on August 22, 2013, 07:57:29 PM
Part 3

Sorry if this seems like spam :-[


Spoiler
Q: Is it possible to give the MoF invl save now? < big iron hands player wanna run a themed force with ironfather HQ but i think ill need the invl for CC
A: Looks like 6+ FNP will be the best you can get unless you take a Chapter Relic, which gives a 6+ invul.

Q: Is that +1 to the blessing for IHs a specific rule of the MoF or part of the IH traits that applied to all techmarines?
A: +1 is only for IH Chapter Tactics

Q: And does bolter drill still work on all bolt weapons (minus the sternguards) or just rifles/combirifles?
A: All Bloters on page 56 of Rulebook and combi-wepon bolters. You can not use it on the special ammo that the sternguard use.

Q: What are the White Scars Chapter Traits?
A: +1 to jink save, Auto pass on dangerous terrain, +1 to Hammer of Wrath attacks, Hit and Run except for termies and both sets of Centurions.

Q: What does Khan do?
A: He gives Bikes and Transports the Scout USR

Q: What are the options for the Crusader Squads?
A: Crusader squads are basically the same as last BT. You get the option of a Sword Brother upgrade(Vet sgt). So you could put 2 power weapons in one squad. There can still be up to 20 models in one unit.

Q: Has Marneus Calgar changed at all?
A: Calgar gets three warlord traits, his armor does not prevent him from preforming a sweeping advance, and he went up in points. He's a supreme badass but you pay for it.

Q: Are those big fists on the shooty Centurions powerfists? What about the assault version- do they strike at initiative because they have Ironclad assault launchers?
A: Centurion Devs do not have PF. The Assult Centurions do strike at initiative, the drills are not unwieldy.

Q: Are black templar's still prohibited from allying with non-grey knight psykers? (Sanctified Psykers, Inquisitors with Psionics, etc)
A: BT are still Ally of Convenience. You will still follow the rule book.

Q: And does the Emperor's champion take up a force organization slot?
A: No.

Q: What chief librarian tigurius? Is going to give other pysker's a run for their money?
A: I think Tigurius is easily the most improved SC. He will be very tempting for Ultramarine players and he comes in relatively cheap. Overall A+ over last edition.

Q: Can the Emperor's Champion be taken as the Warlord?
A: Yes because he is taken as a HQ choice.

Q: Is Calgar above 300 points?
A: Calgar is 275

Q: Have TH/SS termies gone up in price?
A: TH/SS Terminators cost +5 points

Q: What're the rules for the Assault Centurion's drills?
A: S9 AP2 Melee, Specialist Weapon, armorbane, strikes at initiative

Q: What is Grimaldus' stat line like? Any variations from a standard chaplain? And does he have anything like Eternal warrior or IWND?
A: He has "It will not Die", no EW.

Q: Any special BT items or upgrades?
A: Nothing special for Black Templars, you just get the full access to the codex. So you get Vanguard, Sternguard, Centurion and so on. You have the ability to put multiple power weapons in crusader squads. One is a non-character which can not be challenged. You get to hide a power weapon.

Q: Is there any limitations to the EC? Can anybody take one?
A: EC can only be taken by BT and they're a HQ choice.

Q: Is a "Castellan" a BT sgt in a vet squad?
A: Castellans are gone. Vet Sgts are Sword Brothers.

Q: Mind a rundown of the 6 Chapter Relics?
A: he relics consist of two swords, one bolter, set of armor, one storm shield and one banner.

Q: Are there Space Marine Warlord Traits?
A: Yes, one chart for all armies.

Q: Does Imperial Fist Bolter drill give rerolls to hit and to wound of 1? Or just to hit?
A: To hit rolls of 1's.

Q: Is Telion cheaper/different?
A: Telion is the same points and all updated with sniper rules for 6th

Q: Same with Chronus? Is he worth considering now?
A: Chronus is cheaper but still not worth it. Just increases the BS by 1

Q: Is the basic Chapter Master differentiated from a Captain with more than orbital bombardment?
A: CM has A4 and W4 and access to honor guard as command squad.

Q: Does the command squad of a master have better/different options than a captain?
A: It's Honor Guard.

Q: Is the Storm Raven more expensive in these new rules? Different in any other ways?
A: Storm Raven stayed 200 points.

Q: What sort of special tricks does Tigirius bring to the list?
A: Tight is ML 3, knows all disciplines, he can re-roll his dice when determining his psychic powers, he can re-roll reserves(even successful ones), HoH is a psychic hood and he can re-roll failed psychic test.

Q: are drop pods still 12 to a pod?
A: Dop pod is back to 10.

Q: Landraider redeemer the same?
A: LRR is 12

Q: How is Heroic Intervention different?
A: They do not get the penalty for disordered charge and Sgt auto passes initiative check for Glorious Intervention.

Q: Two small questions on the new tanks: what are their AV values? And do either of them have interceptor?
A: AV 12 12 10 and no interceptor, I repeat no interceptor.

Q: Do the Vanguard Veterans still get to assault the turn they deep strike jump packs then?
A: No. That rule is gone.

Q: How many wounds and attacks does Grimaldus have?
A: Grim is W3/A3

Q: And are Reclusiarchs in the codex?
A: Reclusiarchs are gone. There is one Chaplain to chose from.

Q: For those with non first founding chapter & BT, is there a system of making your own chapter tactics(like the chapter traits from the 4th edition codex)?
A: No. You will have to chose out of the Chapter Tactics provide.

Q: Did the predator tanks and devestators have their prices modified in the codex?
A: They both got point decreases.

Q: Is the old Power Armored Marneus Calgar mini nonexistent?
A: He's in Artificer armor. For 10 points more he gets Termie armor.

Q: Are there any new Ultramarine Characters?
A: No new characters.

Q: Does Orbital Bombardment still exist?
A: Yes

Q: Is Calgar's Termie Armor the same? Built in Teleport Homer, or does it do anything special?
A: Same, but let's you sweeping advance in Terminator Armor and still has homer.
Q: There are so many BT on because we are getting screwed by GW who is basically trying to make us in to a lame variant of a codex chapter, something we are definitely not. The more I read, the less I want to continue playing 40K.
A: I think the BT are better. You have more options than you know what to do with and most if not all of your troops are cheaper. It's not that bad.

Another BT player raising his complaints....
Q: More options but if CC crusaders are not getting any bonus in CC then BT are WORSE in CC then with the 4th ed book and because termies will get 1 less heavy weapon in a squad of 5 BT Gunline will have less missiles
A: Those things had gone they way of the dodo bird a half a decade ago. Even if they got their own dex there ways no way that you were still going to get two heavy weapons in five termies and other outdated rules.

Squads are just as good as there 4th codex iteration. They're cheaper, they come with frag/krak grenades, up to two power weapons, 2 flyer types, and the list goes on. There are far more pluses than minuses.

If you were banking on rules that are old and outdated then you will be disappointed. If you look at all the options then you will be excited about the possibility and the flexibility that the new dex offers.

Back to the Q&A:

Q: Ironclads the same?
A: Ironclads are the same.

Q: About Honor Guard, have they gotten cheaper? Has the chapter champion got more bad ass or is he still...meh?
A: Honorguard are cheaper and the company champion is the same, at least he's cheaper.

Q: landspeeders the same? Or similar to the dark angels cost wise? Doubt they get 1-5 too.
A: Speeders are 1-3

Q: What about Cassius and Sicarius?
A: 1)Sicarius is 15 points cheaper and basically the same.2)Cassius is 5 points more.

Q: Any change regarding the Whirlwind?
A: Nope. Missiles do the same and its 65 points.

Q: Does IF bolter drill only apply to boltguns/bolt pistols (minus special ammo) or does it apply to hvy and hurricane bolters as well?
A: It works on every bolter on page 56 of the rule book. Hurricane bolters already get a re-roll and you can't re-roll a re-roll.

Q: Can you give the full breakdown of grav-weapons? S value? how do they work v. vehicles? difference between grav gun and grav cannon?
A: Grav weapons wound the target based on their armor save. For example a terminator has a 2+ save so they would be wounded on a die roll of 2+. Against vehicles roll a die, 1-5 does nothing and on a 6 the vehicle is immobilized and loses a HP.

Q: Did the Codex Powers change?
A: They use the psychic powers out of the rule book, so null zone and the other powers are gone.

Q: What are te ranges on the new Grav Guns? Are they rapid fire?
A: Pistol: Range 12", Gun: 18" salvo 2/3, and Cannon: 24" salvo 3/5

Q: Did the dreadnoughts gain any rules (like the rumored Inspiring Presence)?
A: No, I think that's more wish listing.

Q:  Do the Devs get Flakk Missles?
A: Yes. They have to pay and additional 10 points.

Q: Can Honor Guard get and invunerable now (storm shields)?
A: No.

Q: Is there some caveat to the first half of the UM tactical rule (like..i don't know,does not work on heavy weapons for example...) or is it just a plain better version of the IF one even without the extra bonus for tactical squads?
A: It will work on any weapon that rolls a 1, while the IF only works on bolter type weapons.

Q: How many points are the Scout Bikes?
A: 18 points

Q: Did they change the Cereberus launcher on the LS storm? used to be -2 leadership to enemies assaulted after disembarking.
A: It's not the same. It's range 18" S 2 large blast Blind.

Q: Do BT get Land Raider Redeemers as Dedicated, or only Land Raider Crusaders?
A: Just LRC.

Q: Out of intrest, is there anything in the book that stops BT from allying with a psyker? (I know they cant take one)
A: Im not seeing anything that will stop you from allying.

Q: Any change to the Sternguard ammo types?
A: Same as before

Q: Who can take the Grav Weapons?
A: Basically anyone who can take special weapons or pistol upgrades. They heavy one is only on the Dev Centurions.

Q: How much cheaper are Honor Guard exactly?
A: They dropped 25 points.

Q: Does the Signum still work the same?
A: Yes it give one member BS5

Q: So they actually gave the straight better rule to ultramarines (at least with other chapters they have different rules...Here it's just...better)...That makes me kind of sad.
A: Not really you have to invest a lot points into Tac squads and there essentially picking your army for you.

Q: Do you have the points cost for AA tanks?
A: Stalker = 70, Hunter = 75

Q: Do any units have Interceptor?
A: No.

Q: Has libby base cost decreased?
A: Yes, Psyker down to 65 points.

Q: Oh, do the Chaplains get any melee weapon options, or are they stuck with Crozius only?
A: They have other power weapon options and they can also have Chapter Relics.

Q: With the Ultramarines Chapter Trait do you choose, or is it based on how you build your army?
A: You choose but it will kind of force yourhand to build a certain way to take advantage of CT.

Q: Do Grav have haywire as some early rumors suggested?
A: Grav have concussive.

Q: On the stalker model it seems that its two weapon turrets can move seperatly, there was also a rumour before that they could split fire. Is there any indication of this or does the stalker simply have a s7 heavy 4 gun?
A: You're very astute. There is an option to fire at two targets with a lowered BS.

Q: What are the specs of the flame launcher on LoD with ignores cover USR?
A:  All shooting attacks ignore cover saves.

Q: Do we get interrogator chappie/reclusiarch?
A: No, basic Chaplain for all.

Q: Did shooty Terminators get better/cheaper?
A: Heavy Flamer went up in points, while assault cannon and cyclone saw a same points decrease.

Q: How many points costs Tigurius now?
A: 165 points. Down 65 points.

Q: How much do ML 1 and 2 librarians cost?
A: ML1 = 65 and ML2 is a 25 point upgrade.

Q: Does Thunderfire Cannons get any advantage of IH Chapter Tactics? I mean, FNP or It never dies? Their techmarine gets de +1 on Omnissiah's blessing?
A: Yes the Techmarine would get FNP, +1 Omniissiah, and it will not die.

Q: Has auxillary grenade launcher changed?
A: 24" rapid fire.

Q: Are Tactical Squads basically the same as in Codex Dark Angels, as far as organisation and equipment options go?
A: Yes

Q: Grav Amp lets you reroll wounds, that's the only information on it that has come out so far.
A: Grav Amp allows you to re-roll failed wounds and armor penetration with grav weapons.

Q: Are Vanguard Vets for sure FA or Elites?
A: They are elite.

Q: Does Vulkan get Eternal Warrior?
A: No.

Q: How many points is Vukan and does he still mastercraft Thunder Hammers?
A: Vulcan is 190 and he no longer upgrades thunder hammers to MC.

Q: Can you mix your army. Like have some units be ultra marines and others be salamanders?
A: Yes. They're allowed to ally out of the same codex.

Q: Can Independent Characters (captain, chapter masters, techmarines,etc) take centurion armour as part of their wargear?
A: No, that is not a wargear option.

Q: Can non-Black Templar armies (homebrew/unknown founding chapters) choose the Black Templar Chapter Trait? If they can do they have to take Crusader Squads instead of Tactical Squads?
A: The writing on it is a little vague. I would say yes but it may need a FAQ to clear it up.

Q: Any Salamander Relics?
A: No Sally Relics. The are space marine relics shared by all chapters.

Q: Any idea how grav weapons work against units with mixed armor saves ie Dlord + Wraiths?
A: It does not but I would figure you would wound on the majority armor save.

Q: And do Chapter traits work for allied detachments?
A: No, some SC characters have abilities that effect other units but they must have the same CT to receive that bonus.

Q: Any new pieces of common wargear like DA got (auspexes, infravisors, power field generators, etc.)?
A: Mostly grav weapons, Omniscopes, new weapon types for the AA weapons and generally moving wargear to be inline with 6th Ed.

Q:  I keep hearing Vulkan twinlinks Melta and is the same, although it would be a mercy if someone came out and said there are no MC thunder hammers. Can you please confirm? Also I just saw on Natfka that Sallies get to re-roll armour saves from flame weapons including Melta- does this mean invul saves as well?
A: 1)Vulkan TL meltas
2) He does not master craft TH anymore.
3) Only works on flame weapons which are on 56 of the Rulebook.

Q: How many points for Kantor and Vulcan?
A: 1)Kantor 185
2)Vulkan 190

Q: Sorry - meant if you have an allied detachment of say Ultramarines with Tau, do the Ultramarines still benefit from CT despite being Allies?
A: Yes, their abilities will work on that detachment. They do not lose CT for allying.

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1397751#post1397751

Q: Do the AA tanks have to snapshot at ground targets (i.e. do they only have skyfire, but no interceptor?)
A: AA tanks do not have interceptor.

Q: Does honour guard get to keep both their weapon and 2+ save for their new low price?
A: HG get Arti armor and power weapons.

Q: Does Helbrecht gain Orbital Bombardment?
A: Helbrecht does not.

Q: Does Kantor still keep his 12" +1A bubble?
A: yes Kantor does.

Q: Thanks for the answer, do crusader squads have any other special rule besides ATSKNF and Chapter tactics?
A: No BT do not.

Q: How many points is a LS typhoon?
A: Typhoon 75 points

Q: How many points for a Dakka Pred/Las Pred?
A: Las 140 and Dakka 95

Q: Did they reduce the cost of the Captain?
A: Captain is 90

Q: Can models with different chapter tactics be in the same detachment? i.e. Can I take UM and IF in the same primary army then ally in some DA if I wanted them?
A: No they would have to ally those detachments together.

Q: How does work sergeants on tac squads? there is an extra cost for sergeant and veteran sergeant like dark angels?
A: Same as DA

Q: Any changes on attack bikes in cost, size of unit, etc.?
A: Attack bikes are now 45

Q: Is there any unit or weapon in the new codex with Interceptor rule?
A: No

Q: Any changes on Land Speeders?
A: Same

Q: Are crusader squad availabe to other chapter tactics than BT?
A: No

Q: Do Kantor and Helbrecht both have W4 A4 like the generic chapter masters now apparently get?
A: Yes

Q: Are Lysander's stats the same, wounds and such?
A: Same

Q: Legion of the damned weapon costs and special rules?
A: Went down and all their shooting attacks ignore cover.

Q: Can you go a little bit deeper into what the Chapter Relics are?
A: Going to cover on the show.

Q: Am I right to assume that generaly speaking, the costs of units and vehicles that are also in the DA book are the same as they are in that book?
A: Pretty close to each other.

Q: Is the Storm Talon the same cost as in Death from the Skies?
A: Yes.

Q: Can you use characters from a different Chapter than the one whose trait you are using? In other words, can I make an Iron Hands chapter but still use Tigurius, for example?
A: No.

Q: Does the Tactical trait affect only infantry units or does it affect vehicles too?
A: Yes.

Q: Do SM get their own Warlord Traits table, and if so, what are the traits?
A: Yes, we will cover it on the show.

Q: Does Calgar get to pick his traits or does he just get 3 rolls on the tables?
A: Three rolls on the chart, re-roll doubles.

Q: how do Grav weapons work on models who don't have armor saves (like Daemons)?
A: I would say a 5+, might be FAQed.

Q: Any change to shotguns?
A: Shotguns S4 assault 2.

Q: When you say you can ally out of the same codex, is that through the actual ally rules, or that you can mix two armies and their Chapter tactics?
A: You have to ally the two detachments.

Q: Raven Guard CT: is Stealth handed out to Vehicles too?
A: Yes, models in the detachment gain stealth.

Q: Khan: How much does he cost? How much does Moondrakkan cost?
A: Khan 125 and bike 25.

Q: Has the war gear for normal terminators changed .... Ie Can they take combi weapons?
A: No

Q: Any improvements to regular captains not previously mentioned? ie cheaper or wargear options besides the relics?
A: Pretty close to the same.

Q: Terminators of either type cheaper?
A: No.

Q: Scout bikers still lay mines or is that different?
A: Yes.

Q: Can we get elaboration on the Stalker? All I know right now is "S:7 Heavy4"
A: S7 AP4 Range 48"

Q: Can it split fire or something?
A: You can split fire

Q: Any special rules, or is it basically just two glorified AA-Autocannons?
A: Glorified Autocannon

Q: What is the range on the Hunter's gun?
A: 60"

Q: The Ultramarines' Tactical Doctrine only re-rolls 1's for shooting, right?

Q: Have Tigurius' stats changed at all?
A: Stats are the same.

Q:  Does a bike Captain only make a bike squad a Troop if it numbers exactly 5 bikes, or or can it be a full "8 man + attack bike" squad?
A: At least 5 bikes can be up to 8.

Q: Anything changed with assault squads? Can they be taken as troops?
A: 17pts and can't be troops.

Q: Can command and honor guard take jump packs?
A: No.

Q: Do librarians have invuln saves? If not, can they buy them as upgrades?
A: Only in Terminator Armor.

Q: Do any of the characters or chapter tactics give fearless or stubborn?
A: No

Q: What about assault squads? Did their cost decrease a little too? Can they finally take meltaguns?
A: 17 Points and No Melta Guns.

Q: So for clarification on the bikes: any 1 bike unit of at least 5 models (of which one may be upgraded to an attack bike) can be a troop choice per captain on a bike in your army?
A: Correct.

Q: How many base attacks do Centurions have?
A: Centurions have A1. Centurion Sergeants have A2.

Q: Beyond being 15 pts cheaper, any changes to Sicarius?
A: You get +1 to reserves and no longer seize the initiative on a 5 or 6.

Q: How many power weapons can a Crusader squad take (besides the Sergeant) and is there an option to take a pair of lighting claws (either for normal BT marines or the Sergeant)
A: Power Weapon or Power Fist.

Q: Just to make sure I got it right, Honor Guard get: artificer armour, power weapon, Bolter and bolt pistol for 25 points? That sounds like a good deal even if they don't have a invul save.
A: Yes, but don't forget about the frag and krak grenades.

Q: Does the Ultramarine Tactical Doctrine trait (Rerolling Ones for non-tatical marines) apply to vehicles? (The answer before was unclear)
A: Yes, it says "models" in the detatchment. Vehicles are models.

Q: Does the rule for not taking non-chapter characters apply to Telion?
A: Telion is marked as an Ultramarine character and has CT(Ultramarines).

Q: Just to confirm, chapter tactics affect all models in a detachment, to include vehicles, unless otherwise stated, correct?
A: Yes.

Q: Lastly, is each gun on the Stalker Heavy 4 or is each gun Heavy 2?
A: Stalker is Heavy 4. There is an ability to fire at two separate targets. That will be covered on the next show.

Q: Does the Stalker and Hunter have Skyfire?

A: Yes, but they do not have interceptor.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Chris on August 22, 2013, 10:42:46 PM
A lot of this sounds promising... Although I am getting fed up of Black Templar players bitching about being merged.... Yes, I'd like a codex of our own, but with the rules as are in the C:SM and a supplement on the way, I think we're getting some lovin!
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Narric on August 22, 2013, 10:48:06 PM
Quote from: Chris on August 22, 2013, 10:42:46 PM
A lot of this sounds promising... Although I am getting fed up of Black Templar players bitching about being merged.... Yes, I'd like a codex of our own, but with the rules as are in the C:SM and a supplement on the way, I think we're getting some lovin!
I'm not gonna bitch about it, I just think it shouldn't be done. BT have been a seperate book for ages, why suddenly decide to combine it into the "Vanilla" codex? Had they not done so, it probably would have left a large amount of room for more variety, and possibly new characters for the other Chapters like Salamanders and Raven Guard. Having only a single character decide what chapter traits your army uses is a little bit borig and uncreative. Its spit-shine and add new things.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Thantos on August 23, 2013, 02:37:07 PM
Look on the bright side? At least you only have to buy one codex to play BT now? ;D
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Narric on August 23, 2013, 03:58:59 PM
Quote from: Thantos on August 23, 2013, 02:37:07 PM
Look on the bright side? At least you only have to buy one codex to play BT now? ;D
I already have the old BT codex, and aside from a few pieces of wargear being updated, I have no real need for the new codex :P

That and the fact I don't collect GW anymore, I just have an annoying compulsion to add my 2cents to most discussions :P
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Charistoph on August 23, 2013, 09:10:33 PM
Quote from: Chris on August 22, 2013, 10:42:46 PM
A lot of this sounds promising... Although I am getting fed up of Black Templar players bitching about being merged.... Yes, I'd like a codex of our own, but with the rules as are in the C:SM and a supplement on the way, I think we're getting some lovin!
"Some" being the operative word.  While model and unit expansion is great, we've pretty much lost everything else that makes us Templars that doesn't involve models.

Meanwhile, other codices which have had an easier time being folded in (Angels), were given even more crap to play with.  We're getting the middle finger and some are saying, "at least it's well manicured."
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Chris on August 23, 2013, 09:18:54 PM
I disagree... We can play a pretty good army with the bog standard C:SM stuff... The two traits sound like they could be very good, and the EC is now a combat challenge MONSTER! and with the promise of a supplement on the way, its going to get very good...
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Narric on August 23, 2013, 09:38:14 PM
The EC was already a mopnster in Combat :P He hasn't changed, aside from having some tweaks a-la SMurf :P

Different Chapters of Space Marines can easily be represented by the 5th Ed codex, and the Blood Angels Codex. Black Templars are Crusaders and so have a Crusade structure, not a Chapter Structure.

Thinking on it, I find it strange that SMurfs are getting a Supplement before Eldar, who could be said to have even greater need, due to the wide variety of actual cultures that the Craftworlds hold.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Charistoph on August 23, 2013, 09:50:27 PM
Quote from: Chris on August 23, 2013, 09:18:54 PM
I disagree... We can play a pretty good army with the bog standard C:SM stuff... The two traits sound like they could be very good, and the EC is now a combat challenge MONSTER! and with the promise of a supplement on the way, its going to get very good...
Um...  2 Traits (which MAY be only 1 can be used) to replace about 4 Army Special Rules...  Yeah, that's awesome.

If I wanted to play Codex Rowboat, I would be PLAYING Codex Rowboat.  Instead I want to play Codex Emperor's Champions.  Is that really too much to ask?

Quote from: Narric on August 23, 2013, 09:38:14 PM
Thinking on it, I find it strange that SMurfs are getting a Supplement before Eldar, who could be said to have even greater need, due to the wide variety of actual cultures that the Craftworlds hold.
??? Iyanden Eldar were the first Supplement... ???
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Mabbz on August 23, 2013, 10:09:09 PM
Quote from: Narric on August 23, 2013, 09:38:14 PM
Thinking on it, I find it strange that SMurfs are getting a Supplement before Eldar, who could be said to have even greater need, due to the wide variety of actual cultures that the Craftworlds hold.
If you're going to claim that Eldar should be supplemented before Space Marine because they're more diverse, I have to point out that the IG actually described in the codex as "the most diverse fighting force in the entire galaxy"  :P. I've gotten into many arguments at my local GW when I've said that SMurfs shouldn't have more codexi than the Guard.

All in all, I'm just glad that they're reducing the number of SM codexi. I always hated the fact that they got five different codexi when other, more deserving armies had to make do with one.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Narric on August 23, 2013, 10:19:55 PM
Quote from: Charistoph on August 23, 2013, 09:50:27 PM
Quote from: Narric on August 23, 2013, 09:38:14 PM
Thinking on it, I find it strange that SMurfs are getting a Supplement before Eldar, who could be said to have even greater need, due to the wide variety of actual cultures that the Craftworlds hold.
??? Iyanden Eldar were the first Supplement... ???
I was thinking I was wrong on that. I couldn't remember anyone even talking about an Eldar Supplement, let alone even see it on the GW site.

Quote from: Mabbz on August 23, 2013, 10:09:09 PM
Quote from: Narric on August 23, 2013, 09:38:14 PM
Thinking on it, I find it strange that SMurfs are getting a Supplement before Eldar, who could be said to have even greater need, due to the wide variety of actual cultures that the Craftworlds hold.
If you're going to claim that Eldar should be supplemented before Space Marine because they're more diverse, I have to point out that the IG actually described in the codex as "the most diverse fighting force in the entire galaxy"  :P. I've gotten into many arguments at my local GW when I've said that SMurfs shouldn't have more codexi than the Guard.

All in all, I'm just glad that they're reducing the number of SM codexi. I always hated the fact that they got five different codexi when other, more deserving armies had to make do with one.
Heh, that does make sense. :P They even make a point of describing a couple other Regiments that aren't Cadian or catachan in the Codex. I can agree that IG should have equal if not more Codexi than SMurfs ;)
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: salamut2202 on August 23, 2013, 10:23:18 PM
Quote from: Mabbz on August 23, 2013, 10:09:09 PMI have to point out that the IG actually described in the codex as "the most diverse fighting force in the entire galaxy"  :P. I
A very good friend of mine who has some pretty evil looking slaaneshi traitor guard is making blood sacrifices in hope that it will make it more likely that this supplement business will result in a Lost and Damned book.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Narric on August 23, 2013, 10:25:49 PM
Quote from: salamut2202 on August 23, 2013, 10:23:18 PM
Quote from: Mabbz on August 23, 2013, 10:09:09 PMI have to point out that the IG actually described in the codex as "the most diverse fighting force in the entire galaxy"  :P. I
A very good friend of mine who has some pretty evil looking slaaneshi traitor guard is making blood sacrifices in hope that it will make it more likely that this supplement business will result in a Lost and Damned book.
If he captures some GW designers, it may be more likely :shifty:
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Charistoph on August 24, 2013, 07:15:42 AM
Quote from: Narric on August 23, 2013, 10:19:55 PM
Quote from: Charistoph on August 23, 2013, 09:50:27 PM
??? Iyanden Eldar were the first Supplement... ???
I was thinking I was wrong on that. I couldn't remember anyone even talking about an Eldar Supplement, let alone even see it on the GW site.
Iyanden was indeed the first, and currently the only one that cannot ally with its parent codex...  It's also the only one available in dead tree form.  Farsight and Black Legion are both still digital.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Chris on August 24, 2013, 08:42:26 PM
I like the way they are making supplements for what would normally have been its own codex. Its consolidating and condensing so it doesn't seem so daunting for newbie, whilst offering the diversity of an individual codex. There is little new news flowing, so I guess its just a wait and see until the 7th of Sept! At least we shall get some form of confirmation on some of the stuff when the new White Dwarf comes out next week!
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Begel Dverl on August 25, 2013, 04:12:19 PM
Mah bruvars.

I come...

bearing gifts!

Spoiler
Strikeforce is the replacement for the Battleforce but instead a "starter army" box built around a theme of some kind. So more of starter box than the current Battleforce is. Every army will get one eventually that will be named after something relevant to that army (example: Wraithhost for Eldar).

240 Points for 3 Centurions with Grav-Cannons/Grav-Amps and Hurricane Bolters. 60 point upgrade for Grav-Cannon/Grav-Amps.

Assault Centurions have Move Through Cover

"Chapter Tactics I got to use that one turn" < Ultramarines CT

Codex: Space Marines is largely in line with Codex: Dark Angels points wise.

176 Pages in their copy of the codex (same as rumored)

Hunter has "Savant-Lock". When shooting at a flyer you put a marker on it for each miss. The markers stay on the flyer until it leaves the table or is destroyed. At the beginning of every friendly shooting phase you roll for those markers. On a 5 or a 6 that missle hits.

Artwook is nice, and book is Space Marines more in a general form. More updated fluff, not just the rehashed fluff.

Some of the classic Black and White was colored, but a lot of new art too.

Book is in sections for each chapter and a large number of the Successor Chapters to help players know who should be using what rules.

Salamanders don't really have any successor chapters because their chapter had suffered a large number of casualties so they have a larger number of Marines in their chapter.

"Equivilant to Forge World background" in terms of fluff.

Forgeworld fluff included in the codex.


Warlord Traits - Only Chart for the Codex 
1. Angel of Death - Warlord and his unit have the Fear special rule.
2. Imperium Sword - One use only. Declare that your Warlord is using this at the start of one of your assualt phases. The Warlord and his unit have the Furious Charge special rule until the end of the turn. (Sicarius has this one!)
3. Storm of Fire - One use only. Declare that your Warlord is using this at the start of one of your shooting phases. For the duration of that phase a single frienly unit from Codex: Space Marines may re-roll any failed to-hit rolls.
4. Rites of War - When taking morale tests friendly units from Codex: Space Marines within 12" of the Warlord use his characteristic instead of their own.
5. Iron Resolve - When determining your assault results add +1 to your total if the Warlord is locked in that combat.
6. Champion of Humanity - If your Warlord causes the enemy Warlord to be removed from play in a challenge he scores D3 extra victory points in addition in the usual amount of points given for slaying the enemy Warlord in this scenario. Note that killing the enemy Warlord in a sweeping advance does not reward these extra victory points.


Chapter Tactics 

Successor Chapters - You use whatever chapter tactics of your parent chapter is. The ONLY Exception is the Black Templar.

Homebrew - You can pick any tactic you want and use the Special Characters of that chapter. Those characters have to use the same Chapter Tactics as the same Chapter their from.

Allies - "A Space Marine Detachment that has one set of Chapter Tactics MAY ally with another Space Marine Detachment with a different set of Chapter Tactics, Ultramarines and Raven Guard for example. For purposes of the Allies rules these allies are treated as being from two different codexes and are treated as Battle Brothers. Note that you may field models from two different chapters that have the same Chapter Tactics, such as Ultramariens and Praetors of Orpheus in the same detachment. These chapters are so closely affiliated that they count as a single army on the battlefield."

Ultramarines - Combat Doctrine: 
This detachment can utilize each of the following combat doctrines once per game. To do so at the start of your turn you state which combat doctrine you wish to use, if any, until the start of your next turn. You can only use one combat doctrine per turn.
Tactical: Units in this detachment re-roll ones while shooting, unless they're tactical marines and they re-roll all failed to hit rolls in the shooting phase.
Assault: Units in this detachment can re-roll their charge range. Assault squads, bikes, or attack bikes instead have the fleet rule.
Devastator: Units in this detachment may re-rolls to-hit on snap shots, including overwatch shots, in addition models in this detachment's Devastator squads have the relentless unless they disembarked from a transport in their movement phase.

White Scars - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME 
Born in the Saddle: Models in this detachment with the Bike Unit Type automatically pass Dangerous Terrain tests, and recieve a +1 to their Jink Cover Saves. In addition add 1 to their Strength when resolving their Hammer of Wrath hits.
Fight on the Move: Models in this Detachment have the Hit and Run Special Rule. Note that this does not include models in Terminator Armor, Devastator Centurions or Assault Centurions.

Imperial Fists - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME 
Bolter Drill - Models in this detachment may re-roll all to-hit rolls of 1 made with a bolt pistol, boltgun, stormbolter, heavy bolters, or combi-weapons that are firing as boltguns. This rule does not apply to Helfire, Kraken, Vengence or Dragonfire rounds.
Siegemasters - Models in this detachment in Devastator squads and Centurion Devastator squads have the Tank Hunter special rule and add +1 when rolling on the building damage table.

Black Templars - BOTH RULES ALL TIME 
Accept Any Challenges, No Matter the Odds: When engaged in a challenge, Black Templar Characters reroll all failed to-hit rolls, and have the Rending Special Rule.
Crusaders: Black Templars have the Crusader and Adamantium Will Special Rules. In addition Black Templars have access to a special unit called a Crusader Squad.

Iron Hands - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME 
The Flesh is Weak: Models in this detachment have the Feel no Pain on a 6+ Special Rule. Note that if they benefit from more than one instance of Feel no Pain they use the best version available.
Machine Empathy: All vehicles and characters in this detachment have the It Will Not Die special rule even though vehicles do not have Chapter Tactic special rules. Furthermore, Techmarines and Masters of the Forge in this detachment add +1 to their Blessing of the Omnissiah rolls.

Salamanders - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME 
Flamecraft: Models in this detachment can re-roll their saving throws against wounds caused by flamer weapons as defined by the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook. Furthermore, flame weapons used by models in this detachment re-roll failed to-wound rolls and armor penetration rolls that don't cause a glancing or a penetrating hit.
Master Astisan: During the army selection each character in this detachment may upgrade on of his weapons, even one they have purchased as an upgrade, to have the Mastercrafted Special Rule at no additional cost.

Raven Guard - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME 
Strike from the Shadows: Models in this detachment have the Scout Special Rule. In addition, on the first game turn, models in this detachment have the Stealth Special Rule. Note that units that include models with the Bulky or Very Bulky Special Rules do not benefit from either rule.
Wings of Deliverance: Jump Infantry Models in this detachment may use their Jump Packs in both the movement and assault phases of the same turn. Futhermore, they must re-roll all failed to-wound rolls caused by their Hammer of Wrath hits.

COUNT AS: If you want to use Vulkan in a Ultramarines army you have to play use the Salamander Chapter Tactics. So you CAN do "count-as" but you lock yourself into their Chapter Tactics.

Black Templars: + Gains / - Losses (might not be a complete list)
- No More Vows
- No More Marshalls or Castellans
- No More Terminator Command Squads
- No More Master of Sanctity/Reclessiarchy
- Sword Brethren are no longer units
- No More 2 Heavy Weapons in a 5 man Terminator Squad
- No More special rule upgrades (Tank Hunter, ect)
- No More Storm Shields on Assault Squads
- No More extra power weapons in bike squad
- No More Fearless in Close Combat
- No More Righteous Zeal
- Some Flavor
- Most Heavy Weapons +5 more
- No More Power of the Machine Spirt upgrade

+ Chapter Master and Captains
+ Honor Guard
+ Regular Chaplains
+ Master of the Forge
+ Tactical Squads
+ Scout Squads
+ Land Speeder Storm
+ Vanguard
+ Sternguard
+ Ironclad Dreadnoughts
+ Centurions (Assault and Devastator)
+ Scout Bikes
+ Devastators
+ Whirlwinds
+ Hunter
+ Stalker
+ Land Raider Redeemer
+ Crusader Squad keeps Land Raider Crusader as a Dedicated Transport
+ Initiates are 5 points cheaper (counting Frag and Krak Grenade upgrades)
+ Sword Brother option in Crusader Squad
+ Keep Initiate Power Weapon/Fist option
+ Neophyte leadership increased to Ld 8
+ Neophyte Shotguns S4
+ Crusader Squad keeps Pistol and Chainsword option
+ Crusader Squad Organization stays the same


Special Characters:
Marneus Calgar: 
- 275 Points
- Artificer Armor standard (2+)
- God of War: May use a single Combat Doctrine twice per game
- Titanic Might: Re-rolls all armor penetrating hits in close combat. He may reroll glancing hits to attempt to get a penetrating hit. Must accept the second roll even if it is worse than the first.
- Warlord Trait: Rolls 3 times on the Warlord Table, rerolling doubles, and chooses a single Warlord Trait.
- Weapons and Ammo still the same. Terminator Armor still has Frag and Krak Grenades. Retain his Teleport Homer.
- Terminator Armor is 10 points and doesn't prevent sweeping advances.


Captain Cato Sicarius: 
- 185 points
- Surprise Attack: +1 to Reserve Rolls
- Weapons still the same
- Battle-forged Heros: Pick a Tactical Squad and they gain Counter-Attack, Infiltrate or Scout.
- May still use the Coup-de-Grace with his sword.
- Warlord Trait: Rites of Battle

Tigirius: 
- 165 points
- +1 Wound
- Master Psyker: May re-roll any or all of his rolls to choose which powers he knows. He has access to all the powers.
- ML3
- Hood of Hellfire: Psychic Hood that allows you to re-roll failed psychic tests
- Rod of Tigiruis: Same as before with the addition of Soulblaze
- Gift of Prescience: If your army contains Tigirius you may choose to re-roll reserves and apply the result to units of the same attachement.
- Warlord Trait: Storm of Fire

Cassius: 
- Zealot
- All equipment the same
- Warlord Trait: Angel of Death

Telion: 
- Chapter Tactics Ultramarines
- Same points cost
- Same rules

Sergeant Chronus: 
- -20 points
- +1LD
- His vehicle gains It Will not Die

Khan: 
- -35 points (bike is still 20 point upgrade)
- Bike does D3 Hammer of Wrath hits
- Furious Charge
- If Khan is your warlord friendly models with the Chapter Tactics White Scars special rule that are bikes or have dedicated transports have the Scout special rule.
- Khan makes all bike squads who are 5 bikes or more count as troop choices.
- Warlord Trait: Champion of Humanity

Vulkan: 
- The Forgefather: If Vulkan is your warlord, all meltas, multi-meltas and combi-meltas in this detachment become twin-linked.
- Lost Digital Weapons
- Warlord Trait: Iron Resolve

Shrike: 
- 185 points
- Stealth
- Before deploying Shrike can only join a Jump Infantry unit
- Lost Fleet
- Weapons stayed the same
- Warlord Trait: Angel of Death

Lysander: 
- +30 Points
- No more Bolter Defenses
- Icon of Obstinancey: All models with the Imperial Fist Chapter Tactics re-roll failed morale and pinning checks
- Same wargear
Warlord Trait: Champion of Humanity

Chapter Master Pedro Kantor: 
- +1 Attack
- Oath of Rynn: If Chapter Master Kantor is your Warlord all models in Crimson Fist detachments have the Preferred Enemy (Orks) Special Rule. Furthermore, all such models within 12" of Kantor have +1 Attack while he lives. This bonus does not affector Kantor, and is not cimulative with the similar bonuse that the Chapter Banner gives.
- Still has Hold the Line: Crimson Fist Sternguard Veterans are scoring
- Same Wargear and points
- Warlord Trait: Iron Resolve

Helbrect: 
- 180 points
- +1 WS
- Rites of Valor - Gone
- Crusade of Wrath: Once per game, during the Assualt Phase, all models with the Black Templar Chapter Tactics gain Hatred and Fleet until the end of the phase.
- Sword of the High Marshalls is the same
- Legacy of Dorn (+D3 attack on the charge) same

Grimaldus: 
- 185 Points
- -1 BS
- +1 Wound
- -1 Attack
- It will Not Die (replaced "Only in Death Does Duty End"
- Zealot
- Relics of Hellsreach: Any Black Templar of a servitor in 6" gains a 6++ Invunerable save.
- Unmatched Zeal: Black Templar models within of 6" of Chaplain of Grimaldus have the Zealot special rule.

Emperor's Champion: 
- Uses HQ Slot
- 140 Points
- 2+/4++
- Black Sword: AP2, Mastercrafted
- Combat Stances:
Smite the Unclean - +2 Strength, Black Sword is two-handed and unwieldy
Slay the Heretic - Rolls of 6s to wound are Instant Death
- Bolt Pistol gives extra attack (unless using Smite the Unclean)

Pretty much, it's just confirming a buncha stuff.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Chris on August 25, 2013, 07:20:27 PM
Yup...

I can't help that choosing Ultramarines were a bad choice as a Progenitor for my new DIY chapter...

And that BT's have been bent over and ram raided... Sucks!
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Narric on August 25, 2013, 08:23:33 PM
I put it into a spoiler, as my post is rather large.....
Quote from: Begel Dverl on August 25, 2013, 04:12:19 PMStrikeforce is the replacement for the Battleforce but instead a "starter army" box built around a theme of some kind. So more of starter box than the current Battleforce is. Every army will get one eventually that will be named after something relevant to that army (example: Wraithhost for Eldar).
These probably won't be the most efective starter sets, meaning new players will be forced to purchase more expensive kits. Its also a smack in the face, ass the Battleforces shouldn't be replaced, as they're perfect for experienced players to start a new army, or add to a pre-existing one, as intended.

Also the fact its based on a theme, is lame, as the SMurf Battleforce = Tactical, BA = Assault, Ravenwing = Mounted. The only army style not really represented is Terminator/Veteran.

Quote from: Begel Dverl on August 25, 2013, 04:12:19 PM
Hunter has "Savant-Lock". When shooting at a flyer you put a marker on it for each miss. The markers stay on the flyer until it leaves the table or is destroyed. At the beginning of every friendly shooting phase you roll for those markers. On a 5 or a 6 that missle hits.
I don't like this -_- This outclasses Tau Seeker Missiles, which would potentially be able to do the exact same thing.

Quote from: Begel Dverl on August 25, 2013, 04:12:19 PMWarlord Traits - Only Chart for the Codex 
Spoiler
1. Angel of Death - Warlord and his unit have the Fear special rule.
2. Imperium Sword - One use only. Declare that your Warlord is using this at the start of one of your assualt phases. The Warlord and his unit have the Furious Charge special rule until the end of the turn. (Sicarius has this one!)
3. Storm of Fire - One use only. Declare that your Warlord is using this at the start of one of your shooting phases. For the duration of that phase a single frienly unit from Codex: Space Marines may re-roll any failed to-hit rolls.
4. Rites of War - When taking morale tests friendly units from Codex: Space Marines within 12" of the Warlord use his characteristic instead of their own.
5. Iron Resolve - When determining your assault results add +1 to your total if the Warlord is locked in that combat.
6. Champion of Humanity - If your Warlord causes the enemy Warlord to be removed from play in a challenge he scores D3 extra victory points in addition in the usual amount of points given for slaying the enemy Warlord in this scenario. Note that killing the enemy Warlord in a sweeping advance does not reward these extra victory points.
1. Why?
2. Sounds cool, thats about it.....
3. Pointless if you're a Ultramarine player.....
4. Why isn't this the standard SR for Captains and Chapter Masters?
5. Why?
6. I think this is mis-labeled. Champion Slayer would make more sense to me. The trait itself is ok....

Quote from: Begel Dverl on August 25, 2013, 04:12:19 PMChapter Tactics 
Successor Chapters - You use whatever chapter tactics of your parent chapter is. The ONLY Exception is the Black Templar.

Homebrew - You can pick any tactic you want and use the Special Characters of that chapter. Those characters have to use the same Chapter Tactics as the same Chapter their from.

Allies - "A Space Marine Detachment that has one set of Chapter Tactics MAY ally with another Space Marine Detachment with a different set of Chapter Tactics, Ultramarines and Raven Guard for example. For purposes of the Allies rules these allies are treated as being from two different codexes and are treated as Battle Brothers. Note that you may field models from two different chapters that have the same Chapter Tactics, such as Ultramariens and Praetors of Orpheus in the same detachment. These chapters are so closely affiliated that they count as a single army on the battlefield."
Homebrew = Successor in a way :P Kid of works, as in my mind, successor chapters often build from tactics of their parent chapters.

Quote from: Begel Dverl on August 25, 2013, 04:12:19 PMBlack Templars - BOTH RULES ALL TIME 
Accept Any Challenges, No Matter the Odds: When engaged in a challenge, Black Templar Characters reroll all failed to-hit rolls, and have the Rending Special Rule.
Crusaders: Black Templars have the Crusader and Adamantium Will Special Rules. In addition Black Templars have access to a special unit called a Crusader Squad.
Ok, I cant complain about this for BTs. only downside is our Character are predominantly Indepedent, making them easy to pick off by Sniper fire.

Quote from: Begel Dverl on August 25, 2013, 04:12:19 PMUltramarines - Combat Doctrine: 
Spoiler
this detachment can utilize each of the following combat doctrines once per game. To do so at the start of your turn you state which combat doctrine you wish to use, if any, until the start of your next turn. You can only use one combat doctrine per turn.
Tactical: Units in this detachment re-roll ones while shooting, unless they're tactical marines and they re-roll all failed to hit rolls in the shooting phase.
Assault: Units in this detachment can re-roll their charge range. Assault squads, bikes, or attack bikes instead have the fleet rule.
Devastator: Units in this detachment may re-rolls to-hit on snap shots, including overwatch shots, in addition models in this detachment's Devastator squads have the relentless unless they disembarked from a transport in their movement phase.
Nice to know there is some sort of shackle on Ultramrine players. This is a genuinely surprising developement if it is true.

Quote from: Begel Dverl on August 25, 2013, 04:12:19 PMWhite Scars - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME 
Spoiler
Born in the Saddle: Models in this detachment with the Bike Unit Type automatically pass Dangerous Terrain tests, and recieve a +1 to their Jink Cover Saves. In addition add 1 to their Strength when resolving their Hammer of Wrath hits.
Fight on the Move: Models in this Detachment have the Hit and Run Special Rule. Note that this does not include models in Terminator Armor, Devastator Centurions or Assault Centurions.
Isn't Hit & Run redundant with Combat Tactics? the boost to Jink Saves and Hammer of Wrath is cool.

Quote from: Begel Dverl on August 25, 2013, 04:12:19 PMImperial Fists - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME 
Spoiler
Bolter Drill - Models in this detachment may re-roll all to-hit rolls of 1 made with a bolt pistol, boltgun, stormbolter, heavy bolters, or combi-weapons that are firing as boltguns. This rule does not apply to Helfire, Kraken, Vengence or Dragonfire rounds.
Siegemasters - Models in this detachment in Devastator squads and Centurion Devastator squads have the Tank Hunter special rule and add +1 when rolling on the building damage table.
Imperial Fists seem to be more reliable than Ultras in terms of shooting.

Quote from: Begel Dverl on August 25, 2013, 04:12:19 PMIron Hands - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME 
Spoiler
The Flesh is Weak: Models in this detachment have the Feel no Pain on a 6+ Special Rule. Note that if they benefit from more than one instance of Feel no Pain they use the best version available.
Machine Empathy: All vehicles and characters in this detachment have the It Will Not Die special rule even though vehicles do not have Chapter Tactic special rules. Furthermore, Techmarines and Masters of the Forge in this detachment add +1 to their Blessing of the Omnissiah rolls.
I like this. I can easily see people creating Mechanicum lists as counts as Iron Hands ^_^

Quote from: Begel Dverl on August 25, 2013, 04:12:19 PMSalamanders - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME 
Spoiler
Flamecraft: Models in this detachment can re-roll their saving throws against wounds caused by flamer weapons as defined by the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook. Furthermore, flame weapons used by models in this detachment re-roll failed to-wound rolls and armor penetration rolls that don't cause a glancing or a penetrating hit.
Master Astisan: During the army selection each character in this detachment may upgrade on of his weapons, even one they have purchased as an upgrade, to have the Mastercrafted Special Rule at no additional cost.
Flame weapons used for destroying Armour? Uhm, i think somebody got mixed up in the Design department.

Quote from: Begel Dverl on August 25, 2013, 04:12:19 PMRaven Guard - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME 
Spoiler
Strike from the Shadows: Models in this detachment have the Scout Special Rule. In addition, on the first game turn, models in this detachment have the Stealth Special Rule. Note that units that include models with the Bulky or Very Bulky Special Rules do not benefit from either rule.
Wings of Deliverance: Jump Infantry Models in this detachment may use their Jump Packs in both the movement and assault phases of the same turn. Futhermore, they must re-roll all failed to-wound rolls caused by their Hammer of Wrath hits.
Scouting and Stealthy Marines? Cool.

I love how some rules specify the re-rolls MUST be taken. Who are these strange people who choose not to, forget to do their re-rolls?

Quote from: Begel Dverl on August 25, 2013, 04:12:19 PMCOUNT AS: If you want to use Vulkan in a Ultramarines army you have to play use the Salamander Chapter Tactics. So you CAN do "count-as" but you lock yourself into their Chapter Tactics.
So no mix-y-matching of chapters? I can deal with that :P

Quote from: Begel Dverl on August 25, 2013, 04:12:19 PMBlack Templars: + Gains / - Losses (might not be a complete list)
Lost
- No More Vows
- No More Marshalls or Castellans
- No More Terminator Command Squads
- No More Master of Sanctity/Reclessiarchy
- Sword Brethren are no longer units
- No More 2 Heavy Weapons in a 5 man Terminator Squad
- No More special rule upgrades (Tank Hunter, ect)
- No More Storm Shields on Assault Squads
- No More extra power weapons in bike squad
- No More Fearless in Close Combat
- No More Righteous Zeal
- Some Flavor
- Most Heavy Weapons +5 more
- No More Power of the Machine Spirt upgrade

gained
+ Chapter Master and Captains
+ Honor Guard
+ Regular Chaplains
+ Master of the Forge
+ Tactical Squads
+ Scout Squads
+ Land Speeder Storm
+ Vanguard
+ Sternguard
+ Ironclad Dreadnoughts
+ Centurions (Assault and Devastator)
+ Scout Bikes
+ Devastators
+ Whirlwinds
+ Hunter
+ Stalker
+ Land Raider Redeemer
+ Crusader Squad keeps Land Raider Crusader as a Dedicated Transport
+ Initiates are 5 points cheaper (counting Frag and Krak Grenade upgrades)
+ Sword Brother option in Crusader Squad
+ Keep Initiate Power Weapon/Fist option
+ Neophyte leadership increased to Ld 8
+ Neophyte Shotguns S4
+ Crusader Squad keeps Pistol and Chainsword option
+ Crusader Squad Organization stays the same
- I personally found Vows awkward. It didn't feel like something that should have been done. Having set abilities for a BT army, is leagues simpler.
- The lose of the differing chaplains is unfortunate. I personally find it strange that they WEREN'T included.
- Sword Brethran are Sternguard in my eyes anyway :P
- Storm Shield Assault squads were OP :P
- Righteous Zeal was a btich to remember and use properly :P
- PotMS didn't make sense as an Upgrade :P
- I can't really complain about all the stuff BTs have access to. I guess its a case of you don't know what you have until you lose it?
- Wait, Sword Brother Option is Crusader Squad? So Sword Brethan are like those Space Wolf Characters then?

Marneus Calgar:
- So can Calgar use two Doctrines, or does he allow for two doctrines to be used?
- Again, UMs have a couple shackles. However, being able to choose out of three is a little bit cheeky, even if it is random each game.


Tigirius: 
Why is a Librarian a better Astropath than an Astropath?

Khan: 
Mounted SMurfs arestill in. Sweet!

Shrike: 
Losing Fleet isn't as bad, becuase he can use his Jump Pack in the Assault Phase. Thats a garaunteed 12" charge range, right?

Lysander: 
Marines don't have Morale Check due to ATSKNF right? and Marines rarely ever get pinned, so isn't that icon a bit redundant?

Emperor's Champion: 
- Bolt Pistol gives extra attack (unless using Smite the Unclean) - Redundant Wording -_-;
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Chris on August 25, 2013, 09:04:37 PM
Art work AHOY!

Standard
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/giberz09/1377455402520_zps9ea30edf.jpg) (http://s719.photobucket.com/user/giberz09/media/1377455402520_zps9ea30edf.jpg.html)

Limited Editions
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/giberz09/1377456423506_zps098527cb.jpg) (http://s719.photobucket.com/user/giberz09/media/1377456423506_zps098527cb.jpg.html)
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/giberz09/1377456501048_zpse7a1db8e.jpg) (http://s719.photobucket.com/user/giberz09/media/1377456501048_zpse7a1db8e.jpg.html)
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/giberz09/1377456797982_zps8f453685.jpg) (http://s719.photobucket.com/user/giberz09/media/1377456797982_zps8f453685.jpg.html)
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/giberz09/1377456547363_zpse3d1fdec.jpg) (http://s719.photobucket.com/user/giberz09/media/1377456547363_zpse3d1fdec.jpg.html)
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/giberz09/1377456690782_zps5659a330.jpg) (http://s719.photobucket.com/user/giberz09/media/1377456690782_zps5659a330.jpg.html)
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/giberz09/1377457026040_zps0caecdfb.jpg) (http://s719.photobucket.com/user/giberz09/media/1377457026040_zps0caecdfb.jpg.html)

I'm holding out on hope that the Black Templar's one will be different. Its looks similar style, but doesn't have the title banner like the others, instead it has the other chapters icons... Odd...
Taken straight from Bolter and Chainsword
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Begel Dverl on August 25, 2013, 10:54:56 PM
Quote from: Chris on August 25, 2013, 09:04:37 PM
Art work AHOY!

Standard
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/giberz09/1377455402520_zps9ea30edf.jpg) (http://s719.photobucket.com/user/giberz09/media/1377455402520_zps9ea30edf.jpg.html)

(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2013/8/25/531205_sm-Codex%2C%20Humor%2C%20Space%20Marines%2C%20Ultramarines%2C%20Warhammer%2040%2C000.png) (http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/531205-Codex%2C%20Humor%2C%20Space%20Marines%2C%20Ultramarines%2C%20Warhammer%2040%2C000.html)
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Chris on August 25, 2013, 11:43:03 PM
Genius!
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors
Post by: Charistoph on August 26, 2013, 03:32:35 PM
Quote from: Narric on August 25, 2013, 08:23:33 PM
I personally found Vows awkward. It didn't feel like something that should have been done. Having set abilities for a BT army, is leagues simpler.
I don't see how they were awkward.  Far less so than the Traits of C:SM 4th.  Black Templars were a Space Marine force guided and directed by their HQs.  That left holes to be filled.

Though, as someone once said, they could have just left it an aura and be done with it instead of just dropping the entire mechanic

Quote from: Narric on August 25, 2013, 08:23:33 PM- The lose of the differing chaplains is unfortunate. I personally find it strange that they WEREN'T included.
They don't want the Smurf tramping on something that the Angels can do, now can we?

Quote from: Narric on August 25, 2013, 08:23:33 PM- Sword Brethran are Sternguard in my eyes anyway :P
True, well, a mix of Sternguard and Vanguard (without the Jump Pack option).

Quote from: Narric on August 25, 2013, 08:23:33 PM- Storm Shield Assault squads were OP :P
Yes, trading a Str: 4 AP: - attack for an Invul Save at 2/3rds the cost is OP.   :shifty:

Quote from: Narric on August 25, 2013, 08:23:33 PM- Righteous Zeal was a btich to remember and use properly :P
Not really.  At least, no more than remembering Furious Charge or Counter-Attack.  And it burned us as often as it helped us.

Quote from: Narric on August 25, 2013, 08:23:33 PM- PotMS didn't make sense as an Upgrade :P
That's because it is legacy.  C:SM 4th had the same option.

Quote from: Narric on August 25, 2013, 08:23:33 PM- I can't really complain about all the stuff BTs have access to. I guess its a case of you don't know what you have until you lose it?
I know what I have (made a Fandex upgrading the 4th Edition codex), and all this is like a punch in the gonads.

Quote from: Narric on August 25, 2013, 08:23:33 PM- Wait, Sword Brother Option is Crusader Squad? So Sword Brethan are like those Space Wolf Characters then?
No quite.  Wolf Guard are a separate unit.  The Sword Brethren are the Vet Sergeants for Crusader Squads.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors (New: Trailer!)
Post by: Begel Dverl on August 26, 2013, 07:42:03 PM
Look what I found, guys.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3nJRNed94Q
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors (New: Trailer!)
Post by: Chris on August 26, 2013, 08:04:04 PM
EEERRRRMMMMAAAAGGGGEERRRRRDDDDD.....
Games Workshop actually learnt how to use windows movie maker! HASHTAG:: Impressed!
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors (New: Trailer!)
Post by: Narric on August 26, 2013, 08:06:53 PM
Quote from: Begel Dverl on August 26, 2013, 07:42:03 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3nJRNed94Q
Wow, that was lame....

None of their promotional videos have really inspired me since they started doing them.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors (New: Trailer!)
Post by: Begel Dverl on August 26, 2013, 09:42:30 PM
Quote from: Chris on August 26, 2013, 08:04:04 PM
EEERRRRMMMMAAAAGGGGEERRRRRDDDDD.....
Games Workshop actually learnt how to use windows movie maker! HASHTAG:: Impressed!
Quote from: Narric on August 26, 2013, 08:06:53 PM
Quote from: Begel Dverl on August 26, 2013, 07:42:03 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3nJRNed94Q
Wow, that was lame....

None of their promotional videos have really inspired me since they started doing them.

At least we know what their trying to sell this time... right?  :D

Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors (New: Trailer!)
Post by: Narric on August 27, 2013, 09:04:11 AM
Quote from: Begel Dverl on August 26, 2013, 09:42:30 PM
At least we know what their trying to sell this time... right?  :D
Can't think of a good analogy. But simply put, that means they have failed their advertising. Just knowing what a company wants to sell you, doesn't mean squat.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors (New: Trailer!)
Post by: Chris on August 27, 2013, 09:19:03 AM
Yeah, its clear as MUD!

Still, I'm looking forward to the new book... If nothing else it will give me a chance to get excited about the hobby again..
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors (More Leaked WD Images on page 10!)
Post by: Begel Dverl on August 27, 2013, 09:36:24 PM
Guys.

More pictures and a battle report.

Look at them.

Spoiler
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iymhDvGcul0/Uhvstnbl-hI/AAAAAAAAAG0/obV9XEQ07Vk/s1600/WD07.jpg)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7IbBAm0fmXI/UhvsosVMQYI/AAAAAAAAAGM/8Fq3-eI1q4s/s1600/WD02.jpg)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xuBDsoLjHN8/Uhvs8akUFGI/AAAAAAAAAIM/mTAM8Aqa55g/s1600/WD20.jpg)

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ZQWk2FjIZFY/Uhvsqfp9VBI/AAAAAAAAAGU/nzNxKEZb2XA/s1600/WD04.jpg)

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IzY-YJku7jY/UhvssmYGa9I/AAAAAAAAAGk/1hzgSFeUSMY/s1600/WD06.jpg)

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Cs8wY6goNcs/UhvssGiwbxI/AAAAAAAAAGc/2KQoiSeUxmM/s1600/WD05.jpg)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-PEy1ZwS4B_8/Uhvs4GTZj2I/AAAAAAAAAHw/WVC2Z1RuxdM/s1600/WD14.jpg)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-jMWhht-JooU/UhvszVAHmDI/AAAAAAAAAHU/f8smVtLdoCI/s1600/WD12.jpg)

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hc0Y1en6YcA/UhvtCPW7bvI/AAAAAAAAAI0/CJTd-Kq8n8s/s1600/WD19.jpg)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Gnjo4F0k2Y8/UhvtBF6Bg5I/AAAAAAAAAIs/bDB1fPtjtwM/s1600/WD24.jpg)

Look at them.

The rest is here (http://www.talkwargaming.com/2013/08/september-2013-white-dwarf.html#.Uh0ac74o7IU).
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors (More Leaked WD Images on page 10!)
Post by: Cammerz on August 27, 2013, 10:22:55 PM
Well I'm liking the look of Erebus and Kor Phaeron, Forge World massively outclassing GW's releases this month.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors (More Leaked WD Images on page 10!)
Post by: Thantos on August 29, 2013, 09:01:54 AM
FW characters = awesome! Facial expressions, detailing, style - spot on!
Going to have to pick them up ;D

Nice to see the retro armour types getting some WD love too
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors (More Leaked WD Images on page 10!)
Post by: Wargamer on August 29, 2013, 02:07:15 PM
I'm sorry, what? The studded shoulder plate of Corvus armour provides "more protection"? Why, of course it does! I mean, it's not like those studs allow for less predictable ricochets, or the lack of a trim means that blows can just slide right off the shoulder toward the torso or face!

Clearly, Matt Ward is writing for GW still.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors (More Leaked WD Images on page 10!)
Post by: Rarity Declis on August 29, 2013, 03:05:56 PM
Quote from: Wargamer on August 29, 2013, 02:07:15 PM
I'm sorry, what? The studded shoulder plate of Corvus armour provides "more protection"? Why, of course it does! I mean, it's not like those studs allow for less predictable ricochets, or the lack of a trim means that blows can just slide right off the shoulder toward the torso or face!

Clearly, Matt Ward is writing for GW still.

Well, I imagine that if it doesn't have a trim, it means the shoulder pad is that thick all over, so it's a bit thicker, so it's a bit more protection as well as being specifically built to do so, rather than the previous Heresy Armour which is simply designed to be as quick to produce and as rag-tag as possible to scavenge.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors (More Leaked WD Images on page 10!)
Post by: Begel Dverl on August 30, 2013, 12:58:00 AM
Quote from: Rarity Declis on August 29, 2013, 03:05:56 PM
Quote from: Wargamer on August 29, 2013, 02:07:15 PM
I'm sorry, what? The studded shoulder plate of Corvus armour provides "more protection"? Why, of course it does! I mean, it's not like those studs allow for less predictable ricochets, or the lack of a trim means that blows can just slide right off the shoulder toward the torso or face!

Clearly, Matt Ward is writing for GW still.

Well, I imagine that if it doesn't have a trim, it means the shoulder pad is that thick all over, so it's a bit thicker, so it's a bit more protection as well as being specifically built to do so, rather than the previous Heresy Armour which is simply designed to be as quick to produce and as rag-tag as possible to scavenge.
Maybe it has better shielding or holy blessings than the other armors  :P
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors (More Leaked WD Images on page 10!)
Post by: Narric on August 30, 2013, 08:19:10 AM
Quote from: Rarity Declis on August 29, 2013, 03:05:56 PM
Quote from: Wargamer on August 29, 2013, 02:07:15 PM
I'm sorry, what? The studded shoulder plate of Corvus armour provides "more protection"? Why, of course it does! I mean, it's not like those studs allow for less predictable ricochets, or the lack of a trim means that blows can just slide right off the shoulder toward the torso or face!

Clearly, Matt Ward is writing for GW still.

Well, I imagine that if it doesn't have a trim, it means the shoulder pad is that thick all over, so it's a bit thicker, so it's a bit more protection as well as being specifically built to do so, rather than the previous Heresy Armour which is simply designed to be as quick to produce and as rag-tag as possible to scavenge.
Thicker armour doesn't stop a blade from sliding around.

The only way the studs grant more protection, is is they're intended to replace the Trimm, to prevent enemy blades sliding/glancing into the marines body/face. however, and opponent who know this, would simmple aim for the extreme edges of the shoulder pad, rendering the studs redundant.

I personally neverliked the studded shoulder pad pieces myself. They just felt, not fully made?
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors (More Leaked WD Images on page 10!)
Post by: Rarity Declis on August 30, 2013, 09:20:16 AM
Quote from: Narric on August 30, 2013, 08:19:10 AM
Quote from: Rarity Declis on August 29, 2013, 03:05:56 PM
Quote from: Wargamer on August 29, 2013, 02:07:15 PM
I'm sorry, what? The studded shoulder plate of Corvus armour provides "more protection"? Why, of course it does! I mean, it's not like those studs allow for less predictable ricochets, or the lack of a trim means that blows can just slide right off the shoulder toward the torso or face!

Clearly, Matt Ward is writing for GW still.

Well, I imagine that if it doesn't have a trim, it means the shoulder pad is that thick all over, so it's a bit thicker, so it's a bit more protection as well as being specifically built to do so, rather than the previous Heresy Armour which is simply designed to be as quick to produce and as rag-tag as possible to scavenge.
Thicker armour doesn't stop a blade from sliding around.

The only way the studs grant more protection, is is they're intended to replace the Trimm, to prevent enemy blades sliding/glancing into the marines body/face. however, and opponent who know this, would simmple aim for the extreme edges of the shoulder pad, rendering the studs redundant.

I personally neverliked the studded shoulder pad pieces myself. They just felt, not fully made?

You see, I quite like them, because they're something different and interesting and make a model stand out a bit. However, after a brief look around the internet, it seems to be that the Romans occasionally studded their leather dresses. So, perhaps a nod to that?
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors (More Leaked WD Images on page 10!)
Post by: The Allfather on August 30, 2013, 05:21:22 PM
Definitely. There are a lot of nods to Roman legionnaires in the Space Marine design. Even their basic combat "knife" is a Gladius.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors (More Leaked WD Images on page 10!)
Post by: Kur'os on August 30, 2013, 06:51:31 PM
Quote from: The Allfather on August 30, 2013, 05:21:22 PMDefinitely. There are a lot of nods to Roman legionnaires in the Space Marine design. Even their basic combat "knife" is a Gladius.

I think calling their knife a gladius is a bit of a stretch.  Unless you're giving mention to the size of their knives?  (I.E. their "knives" basically being short swords compared to humans)

-Kur'os
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors (More Leaked WD Images on page 10!)
Post by: Rarity Declis on August 30, 2013, 07:27:46 PM
Spoiler
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_XwiTmULAwW8/S_Zh-bvpCiI/AAAAAAAAAKM/gnYdCWzA988/s640/falsegodsbig.jpg)

If you look, we have the helmet crests, we have the gladius blade, the studded leather strap-dress things, studded shoulder pads, helmets with the side plate like Roman Helmets, and I'm sure them clambering over classical style columns isn't a coincidence.

So yes, a little bit of a nod to the Romans.  ;)
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Rumors (More Leaked WD Images on page 10!)
Post by: Narric on August 30, 2013, 08:14:01 PM
However, that is just one Legion (Luna Wolves?) and iirc, they all had a unique style to their armour, which reflected their Geneseed and their Primarch.

Studded Leather belts I can sort of understand, as it can be seen as providing protection to the groin area, from shorter/quicker opponents. A cut or slice in the right place down their can cuase serious greif, especially if your blade is big enough. Imagine a marine getting skewered from beneath by a DE Incubi Klaive. Not pleasent.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Up for Pre-Order!
Post by: Begel Dverl on August 31, 2013, 03:43:38 AM
Guys.

Guys.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCatsLarge.jsp?catId=cat440160a&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k

IT'S HABBENING

Codex: SM is up for pre-order.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Up for Pre-Order!
Post by: salamut2202 on August 31, 2013, 08:52:28 AM
Now I've seen the centurions in full 3D I have a much more definite opinion on them - they don't exist. Like the storm raven, even if they exist, they don't exist.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Up for Pre-Order!
Post by: Rarity Declis on August 31, 2013, 01:24:38 PM
Quote from: salamut2202 on August 31, 2013, 08:52:28 AM
Now I've seen the centurions in full 3D I have a much more definite opinion on them - they don't exist. Like the storm raven, even if they exist, they don't exist.

That's your choice, but like it or not, they're part of the game, as is the Stormraven. Personally, I dislike Grav weapons suddenly being so available that every squad can now take them, despite never being mentioned in any literature at all ever, are now as available as flamers, but the game moves on, and I'd rather it doesn't get stagnant.

Quote from: Narric on August 30, 2013, 08:14:01 PM
However, that is just one Legion (Luna Wolves?) and iirc, they all had a unique style to their armour, which reflected their Geneseed and their Primarch.

Studded Leather belts I can sort of understand, as it can be seen as providing protection to the groin area, from shorter/quicker opponents. A cut or slice in the right place down their can cuase serious greif, especially if your blade is big enough. Imagine a marine getting skewered from beneath by a DE Incubi Klaive. Not pleasent.

I know, I just picked that photo because it was the first to come to mind. I remember a Space Wolf book when Ragnar and Torin are dueling and Torin points out that he'd knicked Ragnar in most of his arteries, including the groin one, and that even with Space Marine blood clotting, he'd be bloodless in minutes had Torin wanted him to.

Quote from: Begel Dverl on August 31, 2013, 03:43:38 AM
Guys.

Guys.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCatsLarge.jsp?catId=cat440160a&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k

IT'S HABBENING

Codex: SM is up for pre-order.

Onto happier comments...

Finally, they do a red spray paint of dark red! Finally, I can just spray my Flamebringers army rather than have to sit down and set up the air spray which may clog and I have to buy a seperate paint and... Finally!

Finally, I can spray my Orks green. Awesome. Maybe I'll get around to actually building them since I don't have to spend hours getting all that green on.

£10.00? How long have I been out of the hobby? Were spray paints always so expensive? Ouch.

An Imperial Fist version of the Codex cover? Yes....wait, twice the price for a different cover? And no. The Ultramarine cover looks fine, I guess. I'm not paying ANOTHER codex for an Imperial Fist, even if my chapter is a successor. Sniff... it does look pretty though.

Chaplain Command Squad? I need a Command Squad. I need a Razorback. You can never have too many Chaplains, and this Chaplain looks pretty damn cool. So, I'll likely buy that, because they're awesome... WAIT, £55? The price of an old school battleforce? Are you joking? ...Discounted, around £45... I suppose I can swallow that, because I want one of every unit and this has 3 units I don't... I suppose I can deal with it... grudgingly.

Centurions? I wanna see them in person. I'll probably grab a unit of them, maybe the close combat ones, since the idea of having such a massive suit of armour and NOT punching face seems stupid to me, plus the more flamers, the better, but honestly, not hugely interested in them... So a no from me.

Space Marine Stalker/Hunter? They look... okay, I suppose. I was hoping that the Whirlwind model I love would maybe get their job... and don't we already have flyers to dedicated to taking down other flyers (Stormtalon)? I much, much prefer the two gun one, it looks quite cool, I suppose, and my Imperial Fist successors can always use more defensive tanks, but still, not interested. The single cannon one looks a bit boring, and I really don't like the missile lock rule (why don't Tau have that for Seeker missiles?)

Stern guard squad? More fancy Marines? I might as well grab a box to turn my squad of 5 to a squad of 10, and I imagine it will have a lot of conversion parts, but honestly, not interested.

Vanguard Veteran squad? Now they look beautiful (not as good as the Raptor/Warp Talon box though), have a lot of conversion parts, gives me more reasons to make my shooty army have a unit to die gloriously and looking cool? That suits me great, I'll likely get a box. £25, £20 discounted... yeah, I'll pick up a box.

Tactical Squad? I'm not sure what they have done, it looks fairly standard to my eyes, the Tactical Squad are already an incredibly flexible box, just needed all the options in the box. I've already got 4x Tactical Squads as well... I'll get a new squad every edition, so I'll just wait to get some more.

Space Marine Captain? Got one. Not interested in another guy standing there with sword out with roman crest.

Librarian? This one actually looks really, really good. Not having a little read, not standing around. With the Dark Vengeance and this one looking like they actually want to get in your face, I'm really liking it. So, yes, this one is a very excited purchas... WAITWHATTHEHELL £18? For one, 28mm, Space Marine model? Even with a discount, it's around £14.50-ish? For one basic sized model? Holy hell...

So, I'll be getting a Chaplain Command Squad, a Vanguard Veteran Box, and a Codex, because everything else seems stupidly expensive. I fear, even with discounts, I'm approaching getting priced out. I mean, I've come back from China, dusted off my old Dark Eldar and Space Marines, my girlfriend gave me a Tau army for my birthday, but I look at these prices and think holy hell. I think my Marine collection may actually just be done now.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Up for Pre-Order!
Post by: salamut2202 on August 31, 2013, 02:16:25 PM
Quote from: Rarity Declis on August 31, 2013, 01:24:38 PM
Quote from: salamut2202 on August 31, 2013, 08:52:28 AM
Now I've seen the centurions in full 3D I have a much more definite opinion on them - they don't exist. Like the storm raven, even if they exist, they don't exist.

That's your choice, but like it or not, they're part of the game, as is the Stormraven. Personally, I dislike Grav weapons suddenly being so available that every squad can now take them, despite never being mentioned in any literature at all ever, are now as available as flamers, but the game moves on, and I'd rather it doesn't get stagnant.
To be fair, grav weapons have been around since Rogue Trader and spacemarines who have them are not ugly as arse, as the flying brick and the terminators who didn't put down the cake are. Don't underestimate my ability to ignore large chunks of recent additions to the backstory.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Up for Pre-Order!
Post by: Scalphunta on August 31, 2013, 11:06:33 PM
Quote from: salamut2202 on August 31, 2013, 02:16:25 PM
Quote from: Rarity Declis on August 31, 2013, 01:24:38 PM
Quote from: salamut2202 on August 31, 2013, 08:52:28 AM
Now I've seen the centurions in full 3D I have a much more definite opinion on them - they don't exist. Like the storm raven, even if they exist, they don't exist.

That's your choice, but like it or not, they're part of the game, as is the Stormraven. Personally, I dislike Grav weapons suddenly being so available that every squad can now take them, despite never being mentioned in any literature at all ever, are now as available as flamers, but the game moves on, and I'd rather it doesn't get stagnant.
To be fair, grav weapons have been around since Rogue Trader and spacemarines who have them are not ugly as arse, as the flying brick and the terminators who didn't put down the cake are. Don't underestimate my ability to ignore large chunks of recent additions to the backstory.

I agree, my Ultramarine army list will hopefully remain the same. Only changes due to updated rules/abilities.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Up for Pre-Order!
Post by: Rarity Declis on September 01, 2013, 12:30:31 AM
Quote from: salamut2202 on August 31, 2013, 02:16:25 PM
Quote from: Rarity Declis on August 31, 2013, 01:24:38 PM
Quote from: salamut2202 on August 31, 2013, 08:52:28 AM
Now I've seen the centurions in full 3D I have a much more definite opinion on them - they don't exist. Like the storm raven, even if they exist, they don't exist.

That's your choice, but like it or not, they're part of the game, as is the Stormraven. Personally, I dislike Grav weapons suddenly being so available that every squad can now take them, despite never being mentioned in any literature at all ever, are now as available as flamers, but the game moves on, and I'd rather it doesn't get stagnant.
To be fair, grav weapons have been around since Rogue Trader and spacemarines who have them are not ugly as arse, as the flying brick and the terminators who didn't put down the cake are. Don't underestimate my ability to ignore large chunks of recent additions to the backstory.

It's not that they have grav weapons, it's that suddenly they're incredibly common, so much so Tactical and Devastators have them, despite them never being mentioned. Also, they're clearly from the Dark Age of Technology, but despite having the last Imperial Jetbike, and the most varieties of anti-grav Land Speeders, naturally it's the Ultramarines and Co. who get them, but not the Dark "We hoard everything old" Angels.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Up for Pre-Order!
Post by: salamut2202 on September 01, 2013, 01:05:37 AM
Quote from: Rarity Declis on September 01, 2013, 12:30:31 AM
Quote from: salamut2202 on August 31, 2013, 02:16:25 PM
Quote from: Rarity Declis on August 31, 2013, 01:24:38 PM
Quote from: salamut2202 on August 31, 2013, 08:52:28 AM
Now I've seen the centurions in full 3D I have a much more definite opinion on them - they don't exist. Like the storm raven, even if they exist, they don't exist.

That's your choice, but like it or not, they're part of the game, as is the Stormraven. Personally, I dislike Grav weapons suddenly being so available that every squad can now take them, despite never being mentioned in any literature at all ever, are now as available as flamers, but the game moves on, and I'd rather it doesn't get stagnant.
To be fair, grav weapons have been around since Rogue Trader and spacemarines who have them are not ugly as arse, as the flying brick and the terminators who didn't put down the cake are. Don't underestimate my ability to ignore large chunks of recent additions to the backstory.

It's not that they have grav weapons, it's that suddenly they're incredibly common, so much so Tactical and Devastators have them, despite them never being mentioned. Also, they're clearly from the Dark Age of Technology, but despite having the last Imperial Jetbike, and the most varieties of anti-grav Land Speeders, naturally it's the Ultramarines and Co. who get them, but not the Dark "We hoard everything old" Angels.
Right, but a spacemarine which holds one is not ugly as arse :D
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Up for Pre-Order!
Post by: Begel Dverl on September 01, 2013, 02:45:44 AM
QuoteThe Ultramarine cover looks fine, I guess.

Firmly grasp it.
(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2013/9/1/533254_sm-Codex%2C%20Patrick%2C%20Space%20Marines%2C%20Spongebob.png) (http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/533254-Codex%2C%20Patrick%2C%20Space%20Marines%2C%20Spongebob.html)

Also, I like how they have a section for the Salamanders and how they got more representation in the new models.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Up for Pre-Order!
Post by: Narric on September 01, 2013, 06:51:56 AM
I'm oddly shocked by the new Tactical Marine Box. A huge amount has been added, and its only gone up £5? Moments like this give me hope that there is SOMEONE in GW who isn't a complete money grubbing git.
I like the inclusion of a customisable Combi-weapon. Anvils looks cooler though :P

If you pay close atention to the Centurion, you'd notice the Marine has been stretched :P The distance between the top o the normal legs (which can be seen on the back) to the bottom of the helmet looks to be around 5mm more than a Tactical marine. And due to posing, the Centurion Headdoesn't even seem to be just a helmet on top of the marines helmet, its the actually marines head in a slightly bulkier helmet.

The captin model has a bit of derp in in. The majority of the model is pre-posed, meaning that unless you place the head facing towards the sword tip, its going to look incredibly awkward.

The Librarian is curious. The legs are sperate, maine it can actually be mixed with other marine parts. I foresee a large number of semi-unique conversions based on this new Libby.

For only two frames, the Sternguard is definately overpriced. Can't complain about contents, just the price being a turn-off.

The Vanguard frames include another strange thing to see in a GW kit. Holes suitable for magnetising. Somethings Puppets War has been doing since Day one with their kits, which makes me have a knee-jerk reaction to think they just want to sell more kits. Surprised the Vanguard kit is £25 compare to the sterngaurd £30, for roughly the same amount of things.

The Reclusiam Command box is another kit I think shows that someone in GW still cares. @ £55 there is a lot you can do with it (ignoring the fact its better for non-blinged Sternguard) The new Chaplain is a bit weird. I think they were trying too hard with him.

Can't really say I have strong feelings either way about the Stalker/hunter model.
Title: Re: Codex: Space Marine Up for Pre-Order!
Post by: Arguleon-veq on September 03, 2013, 04:44:47 PM
I really like the new tank but i dont think its worth the price they want when in terms of actual model size and parts its no better than a pred. I also think those centurians look a little better now ive seen better pics of them, I still think its a bit of a silly idea but at least they dont look as bad as I thought they would. Still think they should have included contemptors and maybe another flyer to balance the book rather than suits though.