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Messages - Mabbz

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Yay! You're back!

NEW Orks (1500): 80 Infantry, 3 Vehicles; 7 CPs (Battalion and Spearhead)
Ex-Farseer Lorilune (Weirdboy)
Axl Da Goff Rokka (Weirdboy)
Tankbustasx5 w/Rokkits, Boss Nob, Bomb Squig
Boyzx28 w/Sluggas, Choppas, Boss Nob
Boyzx28 w/Sluggas, Choppas, Boss Nob
Battlewagon w/Deffrolla
Big Mek Wingnut on Warbike w/KFF
Battlewagon w/Deffrolla
Gorkanaut BigToof (Deffstorm mega-shoota, 2 Rokkits, 2 Twin Big shootas, Skorcha)

NEW Ultramarines (1500): 27 Infantry, 4 Vehicles; 6 CPs
Captain on Bike w/Thunder Hammer
Librarian on Bike, Force Sword
Tactical Marinesx5 w/Gravgun in Razorback w/TLC
Tactical Marinesx5 w/Gravgun in Razorback w/TLC
Tactical Marinesx5 w/Gravgun in Razorback w/TLC
Bikersx5 w/Gravgunsx2
Centurionsx3 w/Gravcannons, Hurricaine Bolters
Devestatorsx5 w/MLx4

That looks... decidedly mismatched. Maybe I'm wrong (I haven't really seen the new Ork or Space Marine rules) but are you sure that's actually equal points? The Marines look significantly outnumbered and outgunned, kinda like my first game of 8th, where I didn't realise I had to pay for basic equipment but my oppponent did. Or perhaps you've missed something off the SM list, it does say 4 vehicles when I only count 3.

Not that it matters much, I'd be rooting for an Ork win even if you had half the forces.

So I just had my first proper look at the new rules, and played a 750 point game with my Tau vs mechanicus. In the interest of getting the game started, I just took my old 750pts list and worked out how much it was now, and worked it out (very, very wrongly) as 743pts. Initially I thought the Index was ok-ish in terms of writing, a bit cramped and it was weird that the points were in a different place than each armies actual rules, but ok.

After the game, I found I had misunderstood one aspect of the points system; specifically, the pts/model listed doesn't even include their base wargear unless stated otherwise (i.e. just special characters and drones for the tau). So my two standard broadsides (Heavy Rail Rifle and 2x SMS) that I thought I paid 80pts each for, should have been more like 183pts/model. Why basic wargear isn't included in the price, I do not know. Suffice it to say, I won the game since my army was about twice the points of my opponent's.

The hugely expensive broadsides seemed weird to me, but I figured, well, maybe everything is more expensive this edition. And for the most part that does look true (also, broadsides did get a buff to survivability, with an extra wound and toughness). Then I noticed the Gun Drones.

Drones cost 64pts for a maxed out squad. Unlike most models, that basic cost includes their weapons: two pulse carbines. Since all models can fire all their weapons this edition, and twin linking is gone, that means that 64pts squad puts out 32 pulse rounds at 18". Now bear in mind that in addition to normal drone teams, I can take them on every character, vehicle and a lot of other units. Sure they're inaccurate, but we have drone controllers, markerlights and commander abilities for that. They're short ranged, but they're pretty fast and RAW means they can benefit from a pathfinder team's pulse accelerator drone. They're moderately tough in large numbers, they can act as shields for characters within 6" (who can't even be targeted unless they're nearest).

Part of me is thrilled; I've always wanted to do a drone army (I'll have to update my old Commander Dronestorm house rules to 8th). But I feel this shows the biggest shift in the meta with 8th edition. I expect hordes to be king.

On the core gameplay front, I didn't have any real problems with it. I'm still not sure I like the removal of the initiative system for combat (despite playing as Tau), but it isn't terrible. I would have preferred to keep initiative combat, and change the +1A for charging to +1I or something.

Shooting seems pretty solid, although I strongly recommend taking invulnerable saves now. Vehicle explosions cause mortal wounds, which was a bit unpleasant and killed my commander. My Broadsides did barely anything with their Heavy Rail Rifles thanks to their average Bs and some bad rolling on my part, which I felt emphasized my point about hordes; big, powerful guns can be effective, but can also be unreliable, especially where Invulnerable save are involved.

Movement seems fine, although I couldn't find rules for moving through terrain.

I quite like the new Morale system. It's simple, effective, and gives an advantage to single model units that I feel would otherwise not be as competitive in 8th.

News, Rumours and Trading / Re: 8th Edition Announced: It's FREE??
« on: April 24, 2017, 08:45:58 PM »
I watched their Q&A today, and am now... Less optimistic.
Armor value is gone.
Templates are gone.
Lasguns can now hurt Land Raiders.
Formations are gone, though more complicated/specific detachments are now available.
Allies are now heavily discouraged, at least based off of what they're saying.
They're actually going with 'Whoever charges first, hits first'.

Oh, and the rules aren't going to be free, or even any cheaper to get universal access. Unit rules will be split into a number of books (for 'Space Marines,' 'Imperium', 'Xenos', and 'Chaos', or so it sounds,) at a 'lower pricepoint' than codices, but if you want detachment rules or other special options you need to buy that army's codex as well.

Angry reacts only.

So... I was cautiously optimistic. Most of the changes I knew about I had mixed feelings on (Bs and Save modifiers, Move values, etc.). Then you posted that and I'm getting more concerned.

I don't mind so much that Armour values are gone (provided they make it suitably difficult to hurt vehicles) since I've always thought there was a lot overlap between Walkers and MCs. But if Lasguns can hurt Land Raiders, then thing are horribly wrong.

Templates disappearing could be okay depending how they do it (if it's anything like Shadow War Armaggedon then it's more along the lines of removing scatter dice).

Discouraging allies is probably a good thing.

And then there's the scrapping of Initiative based combat... Why? How is that ever going to be a good idea? Giving chargers a bonus to initiative could work, but claiming that Fire warriors charging Harlequins would somehow be faster is just plain stupid.

As for the rules not being free, meh. I already buy new codices for my armies, as long as they don't get more expensive, I won't care much.

Hobby / Re: Army Showcase: Tau Hunter Cadre
« on: April 17, 2017, 02:41:02 PM »
Thank you kindly. It's a very simple scheme, but as a fairly bad painter that appeals to me. I'm generally more into the gaming and modelling sides of the hobby, really (hence the sniper fire warriors and unusually armed Shas'O)

Incidentally, the main thing missing from this photo is my Pathfinders. That's because I've been proxying them recently due to a lack of models, but last week I bought a new box for a Shadow War campaign. I'm thinking of modelling them specifically for that (so lots of sneaky poses), and writing up a few battle reports.

So I went to my friendly neighbourhood Games Workshop (or Warhammer Nottingham, as they've renamed themselves) for the usual Thursday gaming night, expecting to play a few games with my Tau. Instead, I found myself signed up for a campaign of the latest GW release, Shadow War: Armageddon. Or as some call it, the rebooted Necromunda. I'll stick with SW.

So, first impressions. I made a kill team of Tau Pathfinders, because Tau was all I had with me at the time and pathfinders are the only choice Tau get in SW. Ok, as the campaign goes on you can recruit specialists like Stealthsuits, Fireblades and an Ethereal (why he's in a kill team, I do not know), but they only last one game then you're back to pathfinders and drones.

My first thought was "Wow, it's like Kill Team with less customisability!" Seriously, it's a small scale skirmish game of up to 10 models and my force is literally called a Pathfinder Kill Team. Didn't they just release a Kill Team supplement a year ago? At this stage I was having trouble seeing why I would want to play SW instead of that.

Anyway, the game. The first reason to choose SW is that it's not 40k. It shares some similarities (like most of the stats) but otherwise it's a completely different game. There's save and Bs modifiers, movement values, short and long ranges for guns, ammo problems and a lot more. I've only had one and a half games, so I don't know the rules off by heart (give it another couple of games, less if I can find a pirate copy of the rules), but the core mechanics seem solid. Shooting armies seem to have an advantage in knocking enemies down, but if you want to keep them down permanently it's a lot quicker and in some ways safer to do so in melee.

There's a lot more to do stealth-wise, as there are rules for hiding that let you stay hidden without being completely obscured to True Line of Sight. As a Tau player, I haven't really tried using this to sneak into melee, but I suspect it'd be hard to run a pure melee force without relying heavily on cover. I might look into a non-Tau team to try see how effective a pure melee or hybrid team is. So far, I'm thinking that mostly shooting with a few quick melee specialists to finish off downed foes might be best.

The final thing I can talk about is campaign rules. The biggest reason to use play SW instead of KT is that SW seems to have been designed from the outset to be played as a campaign. There's rules for lasting injuries and gaining skills. Also, after each game you earn "Promethium Caches" (1 for losing/drawing, d3 for winning). These Caches can be traded in for either 100pts of new recruits, 100pts of new wargear (no, you can't mix and match, so if your basic new recruit cost 60pts then that sucks for you), or hiring a specialist for your next game.

There are various mission that I haven't tried out yet, and the standard campaign works on the basis of first to 15 Caches wins, leaving you to decide between spending your caches to become more powerful, or saving them to reach the goal. I won my first campaign game, but annoyingly I only got 1 Cache for it (damn d3s...)

I may see about writing up some reports for the campaign at some point. In the meantime, I think the rulebooks are sold out but individual army rules are available for free on GWs website.

Any of you tried it out? Anyone have any questions?

Hobby / Army Showcase: Tau Hunter Cadre
« on: April 14, 2017, 01:18:11 PM »
As promised in my army list thread, I'm posting up a bunch of pictures of my Tau. Unfortunately, I took all the photos yesterday before going to Games Workshop only to find that they're running a Shadow War: Armageddon campaign for the next six weeks, so this army probably wont get any battle any time soon. That said, I may wind up posting some reports for my Pathfinder Kill Team that I'm using for said campaign.

Anyways, here are the pictures! I've put in spoiler tags in the hope that one day they will be fixed.

[spoiler=Whole Army]






[spoiler=Strike Team][/spoiler]

For many years now, my Imperial Guardsmen have been my regular army. Outside of unusual games like Kill Team, my Tau have sat gathering dust.

But no longer. After realising that all the regulars at my local GW are using Armies of the Imperium (we had a 3 vs 3 game, and everyone brought some form of Imperium), I have decided that it's time to return to my blue-skinned roots. Of course, the last time I played Tau, Riptides didn't exist, so I have a lot of catching up to do. I suppose it helps that my perpetual poverty means I wont be buying new units very often.

Still, enough rambling. I'm going to take some photos at some point and put them up in the hobby board, but for now here's my 750pts list (that's the standard at my GW lately), comments and criticism appreciated.

My Tau are organised using the Hunter Cadre formation (and by extension, the Hunter Contingent detachment) described in the normal Tau Codex (no expansions here). For those who are unaware, this gives me a couple of restrictions on my units, but also a few special rules:

- Re-rollable Warlord Trait
- The ability to combine multiple units firepower into one super unit. Effectively this lets me use Markerlights more easily, plus giving me a bonus to my Bs if three or more units fire at one target.
- The ability to run then shoot, provided I stay close to my HQ choices.
- Longer range on the Supporting Fire rule

Shas'O: Iridium Battlesuit, 2 Plasma Rifles, Target Lock, Drone Controller, 2 Marker Drones, Onager Gauntlet - 158pts

Strike Team (10) - 90pts
Strike Team (10) - 90pts
Kroot Carnivores (10): Sniper Rounds - 70pts

Crisis Battlesuit: 2 Flamers - 32pts

Fast Attack:
Pathfinder Team (5) - 55pts
Pirhana: Fusion Blaster - 50pts
Pirhana: Fusion Blaster - 50pts

Heavy Support:
Broadside Battlesuit: TL Heavy Rail Rifle, TL Smart Missile System - 65pts
Broadside Battlesuit: TL Heavy Rail Rifle, TL Smart Missile System - 65pts

Total: 749pts

The Strike teams, Pathfinders and Broadsides provide a gunline, often combining fire to share markerlight tokens and gun down enemy infantry. The Kroot infiltrate into a decent firing position, and either annoy people with their sniper rounds or lure the enemy into attacking them (keeping my gunline safe for another couple of turns.

The pirhanas are my primary anti-tank, as well as being fast enough to outflank my enemy and hopefully confuse them on which way to send their forces. The flamer Crisis suit is similar, deep striking close behind an enemy squad and roasting a few models, forcing them to either waste time dealing with a 32 point model or ignore him and let him make double or triple his points back.

Finally, my Shas'O bounces around the edges, further luring my enemies away from anything valuable and providing markerlight support, either being ignored and denying my opponent a point for slay the warlord, or being chased and using his maneuverability to avoid combat for as long as possible while the rest of my army whittles them down. He's also backup anti-tank with his donkey punch.

Essentially, the army is supposed to dance around trying to get my opponent to chase everything and catch nothing. It's proven fairly effective in the few games I've had so far, although my anti-tank has been doing poorly (why do so many of my opponents take land raiders at 750pts?). I've been considering swapping the Broadsides for a Hammerhead with Railgun and submunitions, but I'm not sure how well it'd work.


Online Roleplaying / Re: Lost in Exploration [RP]
« on: April 04, 2017, 08:15:47 PM »
"On it," replied Jason. He knew he wouldn't be able to keep tabs on all the crew effectively in the midst of this situation, so he decided that he may as well try to help Michael. Strapping himself into a seat next to a console, he began to scan for any hostile action from Earth, while simultaneously hoping that any onboard insurgents weren't suicidal.

Forces and Allies of the Imperium / Re: New Triumvurate Tactica?
« on: April 04, 2017, 05:41:52 PM »
Well I haven't got any experience with Voldus, and the other two have always been against me, so my advice may not be the most useful. Still, here's what I've found.

First, Cypher. While he probably is overcosted, he has proven annoying to play against. My opponent had him infiltrating into terrain with a squad of plasma gunners, making a hard to shift roadblock that no heavy infantry (like the custody another player was using) wanted to be anywhere near. Ludicrously expensive for what it did, but considering we were doing 2500 points on a fairly small table, it worked quite well (even Gullyman went around). That said, the Cypher player outright said that he knew how inefficient it was and that he only did it for laughs.

Then there's Rowboat Goolimon. I've had a few games against him now. First time, he killed half my Guard gun line and would have killed the rest if the game hadn't ended. The most recent time, my Tau kited him to the point that he never reached combat, although his gun did kill some of my guys. Having said that, all my shooting did was know maybe two wounds off. In short, it's just like you said; he's a fantastic distraction, a good area denial unit, and too slow to be anything else. Is there any way to give him a transport?

Also, never get him in combat with the avatar. Hilariously, Rawbutt can't hurt it due to having soul blaze.

Online Roleplaying / Re: Lost in Exploration [RP]
« on: April 03, 2017, 10:32:31 AM »
Jason sat in mute, slack-jawed shock at what he had just seen. The words "they blew up the moon" just kept echoing through his head. Eventually another thought did manage to catch his attention.

"How the hell didn't we see this coming?"

A moon destroying WMD should not have gone unnoticed. There was no way their intelligence network could have missed this. Unless someone was covering it up...

Pulling out his datapad, Jason began furously scanning through every last bit of data he could fingers, trying to identify the traitors. After a few minutes he stopped, recognising the futility of the task. Mentally recategorising everyone on earth as a probable traitor, he began a far more urgent and doable task; trying to identify any traitors on board the Hammond. He began listening carefully to their conversations, searching for any clues to their allegiance.

You maniac! You blew it up!

So... How badly was the moon blown up? Large fragments that could coalesce back into a roughly moon sized object (still killing everyone on the moon, but hopefully not completely wrecking the earth)? Or fragments small enough that the earth will eventually get a ring, like saturn (practically guaranteeing the end of civilisation)?

Also, at the risk of sounding suicidal, how catastrophic would it be if we pointed our ship at the GRW and activated the FTL drive? Or possibly ramming their doomsday weapon, or reconfiguring our warp field to fire our mass driver shots at lightspeed? Or any other technobabble method of spectacularly contributing to the war?

Online Roleplaying / Re: Lost in Exploration [RP]
« on: March 24, 2017, 09:21:38 PM »
Jason quickly strapped himself in, and pulled out a large tablet computer. He hadn't had a chance to ensure it would interface with the ships comms yet, but as he didn't have an important role to play in a spacecraft launch, he began trying to remotely connect to his general security network to try and find out what the situation was. If that didn't work he hoped he'd at least be able to access his shipboard security systems to view the internal sensors. Given the speed they had had to prepare for departure, he was concerned that someone might still be onboard.

News, Rumours and Trading / Upcoming changes to 40k core rules
« on: March 23, 2017, 08:30:36 PM »
My local GW recently shared this on their facebook page. While the video in the article is clearly parody, some digging indicates that the rest of the article is genuine.

Possible changes mentioned:

- Something called "command points", which will provide an incentive to play fluffy lists.
- Move values to make a comeback
- Armour Save modifiers to return
- Charging having an effect on who strikes first
- Simplified morale (no more falling back, it's more like daemonic instability for everyone)

Online Roleplaying / Re: Dark Heresy OOC/Discussion Thread
« on: March 21, 2017, 08:43:46 AM »
Welcome to the forums everyone. I hope you enjoy your stay  :)

Online Roleplaying / Re: Lost in Exploration [RP]
« on: March 20, 2017, 07:55:22 PM »
Jason had to concede the point, and remained in place to hear the rest of the introductions. As he listened he mentally gave each a score out of ten corresponding to the probablility of them being a threat to the mission (1 being completely safe, 10 being confirmed traitor). None scored below 5, although to be fair only a handful of people on the planet had ever rated a 2 (no-one, not even Jason himself, had ever scored 1).

Once everyone was done, Jason excused himself and headed back to the ship to finish his work. Things to do, traps to set.

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