Daemonic Rewards, should I be rewarded?

[Chicop76]

Well after playing Daemons a fair amount of times so far I will have to say this and loci makes or breaks the army. To be fair warp storm is rarely a game changer and instabilty isn't a major issue. However I felt Rewards needed to be covered and does a lot with the dynamics with Daemons.

The main question at this point is why bother? If in timd play rewards and powers can be an issue. Models like the prince can generate 6 rolls a lone with 7 possible. That's one model. If you include Warlord traits that can easily be 20-50 pre rolling before the game beins. I can imagine with apoc you can be sitting there rolling over 100 abilities before the game even begin.

The problem is like loci they can be force multipliers or you really need them. It gives your troops for example to beat a teminator squad which a lot of armies can't do.

One of the biggest things I hear is that you have limited or no gear options. What are they talking about. Heralds alone have access to 9 pages of things they can or can not take. Even upgrade characters have access to a decent amount of abilities.

Here is an example. A platoon sargent from the IG have various weapon options. I will admit more than daemons, but do they get a +1 S ap 2 master crafted weapon striking at I. The caracters have more stream lined weapons and god specific weapons. Depending on what god, etc, will impact what weapon you use. Similar to platoon sargents not having power fist.

A bonus with rewards is you can modify said models with the ability to take certain armies. All terminators are thrown at you, than you can go with all ap 2 weapondary. If a bunch of bugs heading your way than ap is not a main issue and you can opt for other things.

My suggestion is to have an ideal before the game what you are going to do and plan for what you do if you face differant armies. Your plan might be to use true names which may not really be effective due to what yougoing against and doomstone may be a better option.

I wouldn't rely to much on the random rewards and just plan on using weapons/ artefacts. Keeping in mind if you do not get the ability you want, you already know in your head what you will fall back on.

While rolling on rewards you should start with all your exhaulted, greater, than lesser, once yu roll than you pick. The reason being is you may get riftbringer on a herald which will be hard to pull off while on a prince or greater daemon it will make more sense. That way getting the major models out of the way first. You can allow for better options down the road.

Lesser Rewards:

Ok here is your options,

1. Burning Blood: in my opinion pretty worthless unless on a high wound model like the greater nurgle daemon. Most of these options would be better sub. for weapons. Any way it has uses and in the case like a Thirster you might as well just stay with it.

2. Cleaving Strike: it is situational. I for example wouldn't get this for upgrade characters. For your HQ Characters this is good for most of them. In some cases it's a S 10 hit and 6 being the worst. If taken with a greater etherblade you have a fair chance of even a Tzeentch hearld getting a S 8 ap 2 hit. Yes you need a 6 to do so, but if you striking 7 times with re rolls like in the cace of a slaanesh herlad every 6 can be a strength 10 ap 2 hit and with rending it can be str 13 against vehicles giving a slaanesh herald the possiblity of smashing any vehichicle. Yes you need a double 6. Saying it's possible, but not likely.

3. Corrosive Breath: This is actually a good power. I will say the best out of them all. It is obviousily an anti horde weapon and it is not killing much marines. The boon here is that it has armour bane. Which means if close enogh you doing 5+2d6 against vehiciles. The good thing is you don't even have to roll to hit and just have to be in range. The thing I like about it is you can shoot at a troop unit with it and possibly angle the weapon to hit a vehicle and take it out. This will allow you to assault the unit in front of you and take out a vehicle at the same time. If it explodes it will take out evn more troops. My Thirste smiles with glee if he gets this power.

4. Spell Breaker: Great on a psyker. Let's say a herald of Tzeentch has this. That means deny the witch at 3+ against master level 2 and below. If a khorne herald on juggernaught joins hounds that's a 3+ deny the witch as well. It's good if you already denying at good rolls. Although with loci with hounds a khorne unit can deny at a 2+ which would be awesome. I personally would not take it. Just saying it's good in certain circumstances.

5. Warp Breath: This is good for khorne, slaanesh and any herald or mc. What makes this good is you now have a range attack. On a Thirster that means he can shoot down flyers with a str 8 hit with a bs of 10. The thirster will now have two range attacks on top of vectoring. Great cheap anti vehicle option.

6. Warp Strider: this is good for your reserve troops which is very situational. It helps against guard who gives you reserve penalties. If you are coming in via reserves it's good, if not it's bad.

Than you have option 0 which allows you to get weapons. All the weapons except the hellblade or specialist weapons, oh and the plague sword. Remember if you have 2 specialist weapons or melee weapons you can have 2 attacks. For example a bloodletter bloodreaper a troop character upgrade can take a lesser reward and use it to get another hellblade, buy doing so he can have an extra attack for just 10 points. If you want to chop up terminators the same model can take two lesser rewards like a pair of axes of khorne. This means you can get 3-4 attacks and if you count rage 3-6 attacks, so 6 S 4 ap 2 attacks any one.

You have these weapon options:

Khorne Axe of Khorne: ap 2 weapon that causes instant death on a 6 to wound. For khorne I will say the MC's would benefit more from this than your heralds or upgrades. My take is again it is situational. If I see multiple wound models on the field than is a must take. Other wise you have better options.

Tzeentch Staff of Change: are you kidding me. This on certain models is very, very, very good. On non MC's the ap 4 is an issue, but I will cover one that does benefit from taking this weapon. My gripe is that I think it should be a greater reward over a lesser on. S 5 ap 4 Tzeentch Upgrades obviously will not take this. Even Heralds will go the high strength is nice ,but I rather x weapon. However if fighting against guard than that ap 4 becomes an non issuse if you are wounding on 2s.

For example I can take a burning chariot and give him the staff. That would mean he will have 3 strength 6 ap 4 attacks. Next since the chariot is a skimmer you can fly over models and hit them 3d6 times with a strength 6 ap 4 weapon. Next if a charcter is slain he explodes inflicing more hits on the unit. The nasty part about this you can choose what direction he takes away fron. If you land behind a unit with the character in the back you can easily kill him and cause the explosion. The beautiful part if you didn't even shoot and assault yet. I don't know if you can hammer as well. I will have to re look to see if you can add hammer to the flyover.

Another added plus is this weapon on a mc will make th mc strength 8 which instant kills or wounds most models on a 2. It is a very nice weapon option for sure.

3. Nurgle Plague Flail: higher strength weapon that can cause more wounds. Unless it's on a MC I would say why are you taking this. On a MC it allows it to wound most models on a 2+ instead of a +4 re rollable. Against T 5 and lower it can help wound those type of models with a chance of inflicting extra wounds. I think it's ok compared to other options. However if going against poor saving models with low toughness than this is a good weapon for any nurgle model. Against marines, etc you have better options.

4.Wither Sword: it's a flail that have no strength bonus with an ap of 5. Only reason to take this at all if you facing low Inititive multiwound models. Going against that tervigon this will be the weapon to use. I wonder if it fails 3 unsaved wounds will it take 3 I test or 1. This one is better than the flail with the extra wound aspect. Honestly overall you have better options and this is more situational. High touness low initiatiave armies is a must.

Last and not least if you do not want a god specific weapon you can opt to get an etherblade. To be honest more often than not you will opt for the weapon.

1. It's master crasted. Gives me a possible extra wound. With instability out there it makes this a good option.

2. It's ap 2. Besides khorne the other gods deny ap 2 love.

The etherblade is really handy for your army upgrade characters. Only reason a herald of greater daemon may take one is for the extra attack due to taking two specialist weapons.

I like to point out S value makes a differance with taking lesser or and or greater rewards. Your basic characters can only take 2 lesser or 1 greater reward. You have to pay into your reward before the game starts. For example slaanesh is S 3, do I get the extra attack or up them to S 4. Khorne on the other hand is already S 5 on the charge. Would it make more sense to give that unit S6 or give it the extra attack.

For the most part I find myslef using this as a way to give my guys an extra attack with an ap 2 weapon that can re roll one failed hit. It's still usefull for MCs due to it's re roll to hit. Again it is a fall back weapon if you got good greater rewards or exalted rewards.

[Chicop76]

Now let's go into Greater Rewards. Just by looking at lesser you can see the many options you really have.

Greater Rewards:

1. Corpulescence: This is a rather nice power. It adds an additional wound and grants it will not die. It's good for all models except upgrade character. Khorne may be an exception due to the free power swords or the fact they are the cheapest models in the game with power swords. If a thirster get this reward you now have a 6 wound thirster that can basically regenerate.

The problem with upgrade characters is that they can only have this power and no acess to weapons. Meaning no ap 2 weapon options. In most games I would rather a +1 str ap 2 weapon over this power. However this can be a better option like in Khorn's case where the only thing you're fighting is guard and the extra wound would be better. It's situational on the lower costing models and a most have on your MC's. Even your herald would benefit greatly off this power. With that in mind I still go with the weapon upgrade on my Slaanesh Herald for more attacks due to high I.

Daemonic Resilience:

+4 feel no pain. Are you kidding me. For nurgle this means back to the old feel no pain. A must have for your MC's. Heralds it's situatinal and for upgrades I rathe the weapon options.

Dark Blessing:

Re rolling invulnerable save is a must have. 3 out of 6 Greater Rewards have been really good. This one is beast. However this falls into what I said about one and two. On a MC it's a no brainer, however on heralds it's good, but due to weapons you may opt for the weapon well for upgrade characters it's hard to pick due to it's either this or a weapon.

4. Hellfire Gaze:

Strength 8 ap 1 lance shot at 18". I will say due to lack of any non psychic range attacks I will say this is a must have. It's not the best ability, but it should be taken when you get it however. Although on nurgle and Tzeentch upgrade characters, and unclean ones I might reconcider due to bad B. A must have on a bs5 khorne model.

Touch of uncreation:

Armour Bane and Flesh Bane a must have for mcs. With greater and lesser rewards for heralds this is awesome. You can get a lesser etherblade and with this you're doing serious damage. Even on upgrades it's something to think about. Khorne would be wounding on 2's with an ap 3 weapon or doing str 5+2d6 against vehicles. Even slaanesh will can possible do 3+2d6+1d3 against vehicles. It like 1-3, but I will almost always take this simply due to it's usefulness.

Unbreakable Hide: This is the worst out of the 6 rewards. However +3 saves on your MCs who don't have a +3 save is rather nice. Looking at your heralds and upgrades it really depends. It falls into 1-3, but you have to ask yourself do I want a better save or do I want more bite.

Greater Magic Weapons:

Greater EtherBlade:

Same as the Etherblade except it adds + 1 strength. A good tactic is to take this upgrade with another specialist weapon for the extra attack. Out of the weapon options available I will say this is the best one. This is not even a fall back choice. The god specific weapons seem to be the fall back choice which I think is a shame.

Khorne Specific Weapon The Blade of Blood:

If for some reason you don''t like your greater options and decide that the Etherblade is not your liking you can opt for The Blade of Blood. In my opinion unless it's on a Thirster or a Prince it is not worth taking. I say this simply because it is an I 1 weapon unless it's on a MC. Therefore why in the hell would you take this over a Greater Etherblade makes no sense to me. However ignoring the master crafter +1 strength Etherblade if you decide to use the Blade of Blood and become outnumbered that means you can get d3 attacks. However if I roll +1 wound, +4 feel no pain, with it shall not die I think I will leave the blood blade at home.

Negatives assisde it's good on a Thirster who is more than likely will be out numbered most of the time anyway.

Tzeentch Specific Weapon Mutating WarpBlade:

Again to pick this I have to give up a greater reward or a master crafted ap 2 weapon, before I go on I see no reason to bother with this. I do not even really see why this is beter than the staff ofchange. If equiped on a MC the staff of change is a much better option than the warpblade.

However this becomes an option for upgrade characters and heralds. Even so ignoring the the Etherblade is an option a st 5-6 weapon can be better than a S 3-4 ap 3 weapon. That being said it is made to kill marines and maybe +4 armour bearers.

The only real reason to even take this is to generate spawn. However you have to slay a character or MC to do so. The funny thing is the MC's and the exhaulted flamer have the best chance of doing so. With this in mind I doubt any player will give their MC this option.

Going back to the exaulted Flamer he can rake units by flying over them and can land in a way to kill a character. What's interesting is that the Exhaulted Flamer can possibly kill two characters easily in one turn. I personally rather the S5 ap master crafted hits, but the exalted flamer is the only real model who can benefit from this weapon or a herald on chariot.

Nurgle Specific Weapon Balesword:

The +4 poison with no ap makes it a bad choice unless it's on an MC. However it gives the wielder the ability to cause instant death. That being said. Unless you are going against a ton of multiwound models why take it. I rather the rewards or the greater etherblade. How ever if I am facing down a hive tyrant a balesword would be nice to have.


Slaanesh Specific Weapon Lash of Despair:

This choice is a hard one. Throw in rending and bs 4-6 with 2d6 attacks it's very situational. On a. Winged prince with 7 average attacks that hitting at strength 6 with rending it can be nasty. I think it's a great possible options for your MC's. For your heralds it's interesting due to strength 4 with a bs 6. I would have to think do I want to possibly shoot myself out of combat and lose out on a str 5 weapon. With the upgrade character I wouldn't bother, but if a herald is in the squad that's 4d6 shots.

My opinion is if you go heavy lash than why are you not playing horrors. I can see it if you're going mono Slaanesh. I think it is great for a wing slaanesh prince and debateable on anything else.

[Chicop76]

Exalted Rewards:

1 Doubly Blessed: if you roll double on you get a free lesser reward. Some lesser rewards are ok, but you get a free reward so it's not a bad one to get since you also get another Exalted as well.

2. Riftbringer: on a 9 or higher new daemons to come in. To get average you have to cause 6 unsaved wounds to get 7 or higher. Honestly this is good for models that can dish out 7 or higher attacks. Mainly the bloodthirster. It looks good on paper, but it's not easy to pull off and luck is against you. It's debatable to keep it or leave it really.

3. Souleater:

It can allow you to get a wound at the end of any assault which the daemon caused any wounds,so in one tur you can have 2 wounds and within 2 turns you can easily almost have 10 wounds with some models. I got this before and my thirster was unkillable. This is a must have if you tink you can wound models.

4. Unholy Frenzy:

Provides rage and rampage, so on the charge you can get a possible +5 attacks. A thirster will have 11 atacks on the charge. I personally think it's good on any model, but Khorne simply due to the fact most khorne models can get this already.

5. Warp Tether:

It's like we will be back. I think for models that you need it's good. On chariots it's nice to have, but other than that I think you have better options.

6. Wind of Chaos:

Probably the worst reward you can get. The random strength makes it unreliable. If you get lucky it can be good though. If you roll for strength and than pick target it wouldn't be that bad, but you pick first nd than roll on strength.

Hellforge Artifacts:


The Eternal Blade:

Unlike the other rewards you have only 4 other options that you can only pick once. Great on any MC. For example on a ws 7 model you can get ws 10 with this item. I think this and blade of blood is perfect for a thirster. That's is 2d3+1 attacks in addition of 6 base with one or two on the charge possible. Meaning that a Thirster can have 15 attacks on the charge at str 8.

The Doom Stone:

It's situational. If you're facing low leadership hard to kill character models than this is for you. Otherwise it's a waste of points. However if you can lower leadership it can become deadly.