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Grey Knights - No hope?

Started by Narric, April 05, 2013, 11:37:02 PM

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Narric

So this is something I oftent think about when beardyness, and overpower Codexi are discussed.

"How much would I have to forget, in order for my opponent to have fun, playing against a Grey Knight Army?"

Without the Codex infront of me, I have a over-simplified mindset on how it could be done. I've only ever had a single glance through the book ,and put it down as soon as I got to Draigo.

My first thought was to treat every Nemesis Force Weapon, as a Power Weapon. from a modelling point of view, I don't much like the look of any of the weapon upgrades, with the possible exception to the Hammer. In this Edition, Power Weapons have taken a bit of a Nerf, going from essentially AP2, toAP 3. Those Terminators seem a little more daunting to Eldar players I'm sure.

Next idea was to not utilise ridiculous Psychic powers. I can't decide how OP Hammerhand is, though combining Str5 Marines with AP3 attacks, it des still seem too much.

As a personal preference, I never use Codex Given Special Characters. They're just too "set in stone" for me to really get any fuzzy feelings for them. For GK, I'm sure banning yourself from using ANY named character is going to reduce how OTT the army is (Especially Draigo).

I'd personally never use certain pieces of wargear, such as the Plasma Syphone. Jakearo (or however they're spelt) seem strange to see in the Codex. I know we've been messing with their toys since 1st ed, but is there really any need to represent oneON THE BATTLEFIELD? I know SMs take their Techmarines to battle, but at least they have freakin' armour and aren't possessed of the need to tinker with every little piece of gear that sparkles int heir eye.

I'm not sure how to appraoch the Dreadknight tbh. Should I consider it a Dreadnought pretending to be a Monstrous Creature, or an MC pretending to be a Dreadknought?

These are just some random thoughts I've had on the subject, and it will be interestig to hear how others think the army could be used less power-gamey, and more for fun.

I'm off to bed now, so no flame wars whilst I'm asleep!!

Chicop76

What makes it bad is the psycannon spam and psychotroke grenades. Everything else is not that bad. Oh and no re rolling and wounding MC. The Mc is not bad, but the re rolling makes it insane. No purifiers since they are op. Also no psybolt ammunition. Hammerhand is not bad, but no might of ages which makes them str 6 marines.

All the above taken out of the book would make them balanced.


Arguleon-veq

Ive always loved playing against GK, I dont think I have a better record against any other army than I do against GK and thats no matter what I use, my Wolves, my Eldar, my Guard and it being against tournament players using the GK power builds. It may be to do with my lists being designed to take on the meta-game and GK ruled the meta-game for the last few years of 5th and are still up there and strong now in 6th.

I take lists designed to stand up to the horrendous amount of high strength shots they can deal out, the Eldar ran a wraithwall, my Wolves ran Grey Hunter horde with loads of missile long fangs to smash all those razorbacks and my Guard ran AV12-14 to nullify to some extent all those S6,7,8 shots.

So what is actually overpowered against them?

Psybolts, on everything. S6 twin linked heavy bolters were always the key to this list, backed up by dreads with S8 autocannons. Now it has gone towards strike squad hordes with S5 storm bolters, without psybolts we wouldnt be too bothered.

Thats essentially it, nothing else is really too rediculous and the lists that dominated for grey knights just spam psybolts. Dreadknights are nothing special. Coteaz was a problem just because you could have 3 acolytes in a psyback for 62 points, thats not a problem with the changes to scoring.

Cheap inquisitors for prescience is a bit of a pain.

These days they are just a solid army without any really good anti air, I wouldnt say they are too overpowered especially with transports and dreads so easy to deal with.

Purifiers are probably too good but you have to take a useless 150pt character to make them troops, Draigo is rubbish and not overpowered at all, Draigo Wing has never worked, even last edition. Most of the special characters besides Coteaz are fun but not really overpowered. Jokero and the plasma syphon arent overpowered, they are actually pretty substandard, if i see them in a list for GK I know im not playing against a top GK list.

Power Weps on Strike Squads isnt even that bad neither are their psychic powers. Psycannons are amazing but have the obvious drawback of short range.

So really, just having no Coteaz or Psybolts would go a huge way in balancing the book, not that it is too bad anymore anyway.
X-Wing Tournaments;
1st - 38
11th - 33

Deraj

I want to play grey knights because I love the minis and I loved ADB's book about them, but honestly... I think the worst part would be the other players. How fun can it be to have every win be tainted by other players whining about how cheesy your army is? I wouldn't change anything about my army just to make my opponent feel better, I'd use what I want to use. Of course for personal taste I'd rule out named characters and jokero, but that's just because I dislike using named characters and jokero feel unfluffy to me.

Arguleon-veq

You should use them, I think the models are great and are one of the most fun books around for making themed lists thanks to those henchmen units, they have so much variety that they actually let me rep my Arbites [although I only have half of what I used to as I accidently melted 40 of the original metal arbites I owned  :facepalm001:].

Ive also never actually seen people really complain about GK in person, ive seen no end of people complaining about them online but not in person. Depending on the gaming group it can even be the opposite, one of my mates once took his GK [which was pretty much the same list that was winning tournament after tournament at the time] to a local club we hadnt been to before and he had people telling him that GK were a weak army and that his list was a strange build [obviously the opinion changed after playing against it].

I think Jokero would feel better in the list if only xenos inquisitors could take them and they had options for a few other alien henchmen, I think that would make for one of the most interesting units in the game.
X-Wing Tournaments;
1st - 38
11th - 33