The Great Unclean One should I field him???

[Chicop76]

First off I want to start off I never fielded the Great one yet. I have however read and seen him used several times how ever.

Reasons why I never used the Great One.
1. Can't fly
2. Slow and purposeful
3. Can't fly and slower than the rest of my army
4. Unless you are fighting against an agressive army he won't be able to do much. Only way he can get across the field in a timely manner is to deep strike him.

In my observations The Great One was typically ignored and the enemy simply avoided it like the plague. Lacking any range to do anything he appeared to be a huge point sink.

I myself was saying I just don't see any benefit on taking this guy. I have the bloodthirster and lord of change which can get across the field rather fast and do a lot of damage to the enemy. I just do not see why should I give up heralds or a thirster to field this guy.

My hardliner aproach to not fielding the unclean one has changed for a few reasons. Well one main reason.

1. The Grimore of True Names:
It's a must use piece of gear. Sure it has it's negatives which Fateweaver nicely help mitigate. The problem I had was finding a model or models to carry around the darn thing. The only models worthy of doing such a task is heralds, princes, and greater daemons.

The problem with giving names to heralds is it makes them a target. If with a troop option it means that unit gets targeted a lot. Also barrage weapons, and vector strikes, plus focused witchfire, etc can single the herald out and kill him.

A: on a Tzeentch herald the only good option is to take a disk and take screamers. The problem I've found is one strength 8 pie plate ruins their day. Although +4 cover with re rolling ones does help. However I found my self giving invul saves to the unit it self to keep it alive. Making it hard to target other units.

B. I found a khorne herald on juggernaut to be nice. Either add to fleshhounds or to skullcrushers. Hounds are ok, but crushers can take a bit more hits. If you do 3 heralds and 3 crushers it raises the overall toughness to 5 makingthe unit hard to kill. The problem however is the same wth A. You give it to them more than to any other unit.

C. Slaanesh Herald has worked for me, but again same problem as A and B.

D. Nurgle Herald. At first I thought this was the way to go. Adding 2 wounds and surronded by plaguebearers how can you go wrong. Like a-c the problem here is they become a huge target for 2 reasons. 1. Is that you either providing +3 or +2 invulnerable saves to your army. The second reason to target them is that they are troops to begin with. The shrounding does help to not give them the invulnerable saves them selves, but what I find is in combat they die. Unless you are going heavy nurgle I would say I would not add names in this manner. Nurgle make gtreat sit there on an objective and getting shot at long range weapons. They fall prey to flamers and close combat. In other words you do not want to draw any more attention to them than they are already doing.

2. On a prince, especally a winged prince has worked out really well. I find spending 300 points to keep my prince alive to be interesting. It has worked rather well. I wouldn't give names to a knorne prince however.

The drawback is game sequence. If you are going second and the prince is on the board it's rather easy to kill with some armies. If coming in via reserves you are denying true names to your army until the model comes in.

I think names on a winged prince is great as long as you are going first. However losing the price is a huge lost.

3. What is left is to put it on Greater Daemons. Which leaves you two choices Loc and The Great one. The LoC is a great platform, but like a winged prince is very vulnerable to turn one firing if you go second and coming in reserves hurts you with true names not being on the field. This means the The Great one has a use after all. As an added plus he allows you to have winged nurgle princes as heavy since you will be taking hearlds, thirster, or Fateweaver.

I not saying the only reason to take the great one is due to taking true names, for me it really is, the great one is your 2nd/ 3rd toughest daemon to kill if you dissmiss flying. Plus he is chaeper than most of your heavy hitters with a huge amount of wounds second to Ku'Gath which he can possibly have the same amount.

[Chicop76]

Well let's look at his stats for starters.

Weapon Skill: not the greatest in the world, but higher than most models. He will always at worst most of the time hit on 4s. Against most models he will hit on 3s. Not bad and better than average.

BS: the low balastic skill makes witchfire powers a 50% gambit. I would stay away from shooting rewards like strength 8 ap 1 lance shots for example.

Strenght: Average big boy strength. He comes without a weapon, but wounds on a 4+. Against high tougness 5 and higher it is great. Against T 4 and lower the poison hurts you. However in the long run you will be re rolling wounds on a swarmlord or wounding it on 4s.

Toughness is 7: if I am correct their are only like 5 models including the unclean on with this toughness value in the game. This means unless you are strength 4 or higher you do nothing to this guy. If you're guard for example it limits a good bit of your shooting and close combat options. Marines can hurt him, but needing 6s to do anything is a problem. Also hammerhand grey Knights and psycannons will have some issues wounding him.

Wounds: it's like he came off the pages of the bugs codex with better toughness. Ku'Gath has the most wounds in the game staarting out. Like I said before it is possible for The great one to have more wounds however.

Initiative: same as a marine which mean I test killers won't easily get rid of him, jaws of the warp wolf. That being said the higher I makes him decent in combat.

Attacks: one less than the Thirster and same as a prince. It's enough to do some damage.

Instability can be a problem, but I doubt he would lose most combats anyway. The +5 invulnerable is not that great, but it is something. The saving grace to this model is it's shrouding a d grenades. If it is behind a unit it can easily get a +3 cover save. If in terrain with models within 8" away it will get a +2 cover save in area terrain thanks to defensive grenades, so thanks to shrouding and a very high toughness with a ton of wounds it will be hard to kill this guy.

Unlike the prince the unclean one starts at mastery one. At 240 points the Great one can be a master 3 psyker. What's great this means it has acess to biomancy. I would roll on biomancy guning for iron arm and or endurance. 3 of the nurgle powers are really good. 2 gives him two range attacks which poor bs isn't a factor. While one power can lower bs and I which can possibly force marines to hit him on 5s instead of 4s and he will strike before marines.

If you max out on rewards that puts you at 290 which is cheaper than a maxed out thirster and cheaper than a max out prince.

I would take 30 points here for true names while using the rest for a greater reward. Hopefully you wil get the +1 wound and it will not die or the +4 feel no pain. If all else fails you can opt for an instant death weapon or a +1 str master crafted weapon. Or you can get two lesser weapons for the + 1 attack. However I think it's best to go for the greater reward.

At this point I would use him as a support factor with 3 biomancy powers or 2 bio and 1 nurgle. Endurance love is rather niceon some units. However I think statring the greatone one the board behind some units will be great. He can provide +3 love to whom ever needs it and support from the back.

I'll give him a whirl and see how effective he is next game with Fateweaver and a winged prince or two.