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Author Topic: Dark Eldar: No Chance against Tau?  (Read 16199 times)

Offline Chicop76

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Re: Dark Eldar: No Chance against Tau?
« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2013, 02:10:36 AM »
I still think 5 wraithguard with strength 4 ap 1 flamers is scarrier. Honestly at least 3 can wipe out most squad. Dat flamer experance there son. They pop in wipe a squad and than I go omg the flames of death is in me face. You really don't want to assault the wall of death. Which leaves you shoot baby shoot.

I think you get shrouding too so a +3 cover save due to area terrain baby.

I think you are missing my point. I was thinking of a large beast unit that have a threat range of 13-24" with rerollable fleet that functions as an aggressive deterrent, while the wraithguards function in a different  manner altogether.

Daemons do the same thing, but you don't have +3 invulnerble saves with endurance. Meaning rapid fire death with a unit of poor saves. However if you put a bunch of beastmaters up front you can allocate the way you like. Shrounding will help. Actually I would keep the ranger up front since he can have look out sir rolls on a 2+. I recon he makes all the saves and you do all the allocating. Strength 8 shot heads your way have mr toughness 5 take it. A bunch of static shots can go to the little rending guys. Almost no point in taking the invul save guys unless you face strength 10 and you allocate the strength 10 hits to them.

 

Offline BigToof

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Re: Dark Eldar: No Chance against Tau?
« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2013, 02:43:37 AM »
Hi Crisis!
Great to see you back!

I've been looking at your ideas and I totally agree with the Farseer build.

With Prescience and Guide as Primaris powers, you can twin-link 2 units from 24", which is just crazy.

Also, that "Harlequin" seer gets a re-rollable 2++ if you put them on a jetbike, and is so small you can easily hide them behind any vehicle.
Plus, giving them a T4 boost will mean that they can't be taken down by Baleflamers or the like.

I think the Farseer will be the big "go-to" HQ for the Dark-Eldar/Eldar builds, as you can start to get really silly with their synergy, and the other HQs, while interesting, I don't think will really let you do as much.  Plus, he's not going to break the bank and at WORST will give you twin-linking for free.

In a way, I think that the Eldar don't have a really good anti-air option, so the Dark Eldar flyers may have to be good enough for us...

The Crimson Hunter flyer is so flimsy compared to the VoidRaven, and is more expensive to boot.

But, I do like that the Dark Eldar and Eldar compliment each other.

Dark Eldar have lots of anti-infantry firepower at range that is cheap and mobile.

Eldar have sturdy, more expensive options that can take a beating and good anti-tank.

It seems actually sort of sensible to drop your Eldar units down and put the Dark Eldar in reserve to zoom on and start opening things up.

At least, these are my initial thoughts.

Let me know what you think!

Best,
-BT
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Offline crisis_vyper

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Re: Dark Eldar: No Chance against Tau?
« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2013, 03:18:26 AM »
Hi Crisis!
Great to see you back!

Good to be back. :)

I've been looking at your ideas and I totally agree with the Farseer build.

With Prescience and Guide as Primaris powers, you can twin-link 2 units from 24", which is just crazy.

The thing is that I want to roll on the Eldar Runes of Fate for Doom, but if doom fails I would take guide. Divination is divination, hence the obvious choice. :P

I think the Farseer will be the big "go-to" HQ for the Dark-Eldar/Eldar builds, as you can start to get really silly with their synergy, and the other HQs, while interesting, I don't think will really let you do as much.  Plus, he's not going to break the bank and at WORST will give you twin-linking for free.

I already modeled a Medusae on a jetbike to count as my Farseer, so I will be happy to keep my Dark Eldar theme on everything.

Quote
In a way, I think that the Eldar don't have a really good anti-air option, so the Dark Eldar flyers may have to be good enough for us...

The Crimson Hunter flyer is so flimsy compared to the VoidRaven, and is more expensive to boot.

I am honestly not sure, but the fact that it is in the fast attack slot interests me for sure  as it frees up my Heavy support slot for something more efficient. So far my current plan is to take 1 squadron of 3 War Walkers with scatter lasers, 0-1 Crimson Hunter, 0-1 Voidraven  and 2-3 Ravagers to fill in for most of my anti-vehicle/anti-air stuff.

Dark Eldar have lots of anti-infantry firepower at range that is cheap and mobile.

Eldar have sturdy, more expensive options that can take a beating and good anti-tank.

For me Dark Eldar is where the anti-tank and anti-infantry comes from, while the Eldar is where the force multiplier and anti-air comes from.

So far my 1750 pts list looks to be kinda a little 'dry' for the Dark Eldar part to incorporate the Eldar stuff, but it is very firepower heavy. What do you think about this Bigtoof? I personally think that firepower-wise I am powerful enough, but the weird part is that my list only has 22 infantry and 4 jetbikers....... :shifty:

Farseer with mantle and jetbike
Archon with blaster
2 squads of 3 Trueborns with Blasters in a Venom with extra splinter cannons
3 squads of 5 warriors with a blaster in a Venom with extra splinter cannons
1 squad of 3 wracks in a  in Venoms with extra splinter cannons
1 squad of 3 guardian jetbikers
1 Crimson hunter
1 squad of 3 war walkers with 2 scatter lasers each
3 Ravagers, each with 3 lances

Offline BigToof

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Re: Dark Eldar: No Chance against Tau?
« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2013, 03:32:01 AM »
You know, this is a crazy suggestion, but you might have too many Venoms.

You can saturate the area with poison, but it's really only great against high toughness enemies.  Maybe diversifying a bit would help?

I'm actually starting to wonder if getting Wracks with 2x Liquifier guns and then using prescience to twin-link it all would be useful.  You could potentially melt a lot of Marines and charging them suddenly became really scary.

War Walkers are actually fairly decent shots with BS4 and the good chance to become twin linked with their scatter laser.
I'm tempted to try them with a Bright Lance, as three twin-linked BS4 Lances that can shoot and run/hide seems pretty good for their points.

I'm going to be trying a Fire Prism soon, so I want to see how they work, as it may help mitigate some of the need for anti-tank, and it's certainly tougher than the Walkers.  I'm just not sold 100% as they can fall to a lucky melta, and aren't that cheap.

Let me know how the Hunter works out for you.  It seems really great, but I can just see it falling apart by lucky bolter shots...

Best,
-BT

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Offline crisis_vyper

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Re: Dark Eldar: No Chance against Tau?
« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2013, 03:56:54 AM »
You know, this is a crazy suggestion, but you might have too many Venoms.

You can saturate the area with poison, but it's really only great against high toughness enemies.  Maybe diversifying a bit would help?

Agree, but I will try and see if this configuration works for now. I do not have any anti-infantry at all other than the Venoms and the War Walkers, hence the reason behind using 6 venoms.


Quote
War Walkers are actually fairly decent shots with BS4 and the good chance to become twin linked with their scatter laser.
I'm tempted to try them with a Bright Lance, as three twin-linked BS4 Lances that can shoot and run/hide seems pretty good for their points.

Sadly enough it does not work that way with two Scatter lasers on one War Walker. Those with the Laser lock needs to fire first before any other weapon, so two scatter lasers would be firing at the same time, thus not allowing you to have the twin-linked scatter lasers (I REALLY WANT THAT TWIN-LINKED BS$ SCATTER LASER SHIT IF YOU ASK ME!!!!!!!) However if you put a bright lance with a scatter laser, then it would work to make the bright lance twin-linked. I am considering that maybe I should mix my weapons, but I decided against it for now.

Quote
I'm going to be trying a Fire Prism soon, so I want to see how they work, as it may help mitigate some of the need for anti-tank, and it's certainly tougher than the Walkers.  I'm just not sold 100% as they can fall to a lucky melta, and aren't that cheap.

I find that if you want to use Prisms you need to commit to having at least two of them on the field. One does not create an impact. Have you considered the Night Spinner?. :-\

Quote
Let me know how the Hunter works out for you.  It seems really great, but I can just see it falling apart by lucky bolter shots...

That is my life as a Dark Eldar player, so I am personally desensitized to it already.   :facepalm001:

Offline BigToof

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Re: Dark Eldar: No Chance against Tau?
« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2013, 02:43:06 AM »
I'm starting to come around to the Crimson Hunter=OK thought process.  Perhaps it's that my opponent can usually only get to shoot EITHER my Voidraven or the Hunter, so that'll be worth it.

Just I love the Warp Spiders so much, as they have so much mobility and S7 shots out the wazoo.

Agree that War Walkers should get something for their twin Scatter Lasers, but it's better than nothing I suppose...

Have you given any serious thought to the Support Batteries?  I'm not sure as they're so stationary, and I think a good Eldar allies should also be very mobile.

Best,
-BT
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Offline Kur'os

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Re: Dark Eldar: No Chance against Tau?
« Reply #36 on: June 07, 2013, 08:21:24 PM »
As for Dark Eldar-Eldar Synergy, I seriously am surprised that no one is talking about this idea; take Illic Nightspear along with a huge squad of beastmasters and infiltrate them using Illic's special infiltrate rule to bring them as close as possible to the enemy, ignoring the minimum distance you have to stay away from the enemy. The stupid thing about infiltrate is that in the rulebook, it says that as long as there is at least one model with this rule in a squad they have infiltrate.

This doesn't work. 

Illic does have infiltrate, which transfers to his unit.  But his ability to ignore the minimum required distance to an enemy is not a USR or part of Infiltrate, so the rest of the unit will not receive the ability.

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Offline crisis_vyper

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Re: Dark Eldar: No Chance against Tau?
« Reply #37 on: June 07, 2013, 09:29:04 PM »
As for Dark Eldar-Eldar Synergy, I seriously am surprised that no one is talking about this idea; take Illic Nightspear along with a huge squad of beastmasters and infiltrate them using Illic's special infiltrate rule to bring them as close as possible to the enemy, ignoring the minimum distance you have to stay away from the enemy. The stupid thing about infiltrate is that in the rulebook, it says that as long as there is at least one model with this rule in a squad they have infiltrate.

This doesn't work. 

Illic does have infiltrate, which transfers to his unit.  But his ability to ignore the minimum required distance to an enemy is not a USR or part of Infiltrate, so the rest of the unit will not receive the ability.

-Kur'os

It is still out on the table about his 'Uber-infiltrate' until they FAQ it.

Offline Arguleon-veq

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Re: Dark Eldar: No Chance against Tau?
« Reply #38 on: June 07, 2013, 09:43:12 PM »
I dont see why it would need FAQ'ing. Infiltrate is a USR that passes on to a unit, his other rule isnt a USR so it doesnt confer to his unit.

Im pretty sure that the whole 'no minimum distance' would also mean that they can start in combat with a unit.
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Offline crisis_vyper

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Re: Dark Eldar: No Chance against Tau?
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2013, 08:53:32 AM »
Trying my best with the current Dark Eldar-Eldar alliance list at a 1500 pts level to see how it works, and so far there are a few things that I am really fond about and some things that gave me a headache.

1) Psychic powers really help in making the Ravagers more reliable in their anti-tannk duties

2) War Walkers with Scatter Lasers are amazing, but I will have to remind myself that they can battlefocus. Forgotten it a few times in my game and left them to die in the open. Also I might consider the Scatter Laser-Starcannon layout so that it could have a bit more punch.

3) Crimson Hunter is interesting, but oddly enough I find that the Voidraven is more survivable.

4) I find that I really do not want to use more troops, and instead focus upon the killing side of things. But at the same time, the troops are also the easiest slot to pack in the killing power of the list, especially the Venom.

5) Trueborns with blasters do not synergize as well with Eldar allies, and thus I would have to figure out a replacement for the unit if I choose to play Eldar allies. Ironically,Incubi are now more preferable as compared to Trueborns if I were to take Eldar allies.



The dillemma for me now is this; do I want to go pure Dark Eldar or have a mix between the two Eldar races?

 

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