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7th Edition, Detachments and FOCs

Started by Naser Al-Istikhara Cyrus, May 30, 2014, 01:58:27 AM

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Naser Al-Istikhara Cyrus

From what i can understand, you can take as many FOC detachments as you like in your army, as long as you fulfill the core requirements (which would be 1HQ, 2 Troops).

This can be manipulated heavily to create super cheesy battleforged lists. For example, 25 killa kans at 1500 points, 16 T7 Cronos at 1750, etc.

Easiest armies to manipulate are those with cheap troops/hq options. Dark Eldar for example only need 110 points to fulfill the core requirements of each FOC. 50 for a Haemy and 2x30 for 3 wracks.

I'm never going to be using cheesy lists, especially not in this manner, but am merely pointing out the potential abuse from people who want to be cheesy AND battleforged. And don't get me started on apocalypse formations in 7th as detachments...

But most importantly, am i missing something/have i misread something? I'd love to be wrong about all this. I'm a casual gamer at best, and while i like the flexibility that 7th offers, it seems very easy to manipulate a not-fun army to play against.

Cyrus
Quote from: Narric on August 15, 2011, 12:09:07 AM
You make it sound like it could be wearing a top-hat and monocle, but for the sole reason it'd have been painted by Gareth that it would still look terrifying........I have to say I agree. XD
Quote from: Greg Mun

Archon Sharrek

Nope, you're not misreading anything (except for maybe the Apoc formations thing, but I admit I skipped the Gargantuan/Superheavies sections because neither myself, nor anyone I play against here own any...), as far as I can tell either. Which I both love and really dislike. I love it from a fluff stand point, a now my multi-clan Ork army can ride/fly/walk/stomp into battle as one, as can my dreams of a combined Dark angels/Guard/Sister/Inquisition army, but I agree things could get ridiculous.

But the thing that bring keeps it okay in my mind is that everyones faction has to follow the rules for interacting with other factions, so there could be alot of "one eye open" stuff, and, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem that Allies of Convenience get to help others with Denying the Witch/any psychic buffs. So even if I brought along some Dark Eldar, some Iyanden-flavored Eldar and some Tau for "Big, tough monsters + zippy, killy Infantry" love, the tau elements are both watching the DE and not getting any of the fun from the farseer. Actually thats not the best example, given that DE and E are Battle Brothers, but most of the shenanigans I was worried about are gone (except the Imperial ones...).

Personally I don't really see more allies as being really any worse than it already was, and I like it for the fluff diversity it gets me. I even like Unbound armies, because it lets me do fun things like bring nothing but techmarines and dreadnoughts.
Taking the theme of Tau and Dark Eldar allies, and having fun with it.

"That's EVIL EMPEROR ZURGIE-BABY, TO YOU!" - Evil Emperor Zurg

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CoffeeGrunt

The game's not any more open to abuse than it was in 6th. I remember the hysteria with Unbound when it was announced. "OMG, 15 Leman Russes! 5 Riptides!" These...were possible anyway, and often terrible.
The only constant in the universe is change; the Wise adapt.

Irisado

While ridiculous army lists are never going to be effective against a wide range of opponents, unbound is more open to abuse than a list that uses the FOC.  Unbound is closer to the old second edition system, but without the percentage restrictions, and it was easier to build overpowered army lists back then than it has been in more recent editions.  For me seventh is a throwback to that type of list building.

The key to avoid facing abusive lists is to have friends who believe in the playing the game in a similar way to you :).
Soñando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

The Man They Call Jayne

So does unbound require an HQ at all? Or is it literally "Screw the FOC and take what you like"?

Because I am kinda liking the idea of a Shadowsun led XV25 army.
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CoffeeGrunt

Unbound is literally take what you want, so yes, an XV25 army could fly, and would be pretty interesting to play, actually. A supplement centered on her with XV25 Troops would be a cool way to play.
The only constant in the universe is change; the Wise adapt.

The Man They Call Jayne

Well assuming things like squad sizes still apply at 1500 you could get 7 squads of 6 plus Shadowsun, if my head maths are right ish. Or drop one squad and get some upgrades.

Taking Fusion Blasters and you would have 18 Fusion Blaster shots and 144 Burst Cannon shots. Not terrible.

A more fleshed out supplement could be cool though.
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Kur'os

Unbound is pretty straightforward.  No Org chart.  If you have a character, then it will be your Warlord and receive a Warlord trait.  If not, simply pick a model and that is your Warlord for the purposes of Slay the Warlord and the like. 

You also lose out on the "Objective Secured" rule and the Warlord trait reroll, which can REALLY hurt.

Cheese lists will rear up, but now you CAN field Shadowsun / Stealth team lists.  Or true Dread Mob lists without silly mandatory 'Spanna boyz.  MA / IG Armored divisions...  Pure Eldar Wraith lists...  Theme lists can actually be fielded without sacrificing points / org slots or taking special characters.

-Kur'os