Dreadknight/Centurian Amalgamation unit.

[Narric]

Something to kick around for fun.

Got talking to @Farseer Del over on Facebook about the Centurions and the Dreadknights. His exact words are:

Dreadknights look stupid with a possibly useful role, Centurions look useful with a stupid role.

So in my slip into madness whilst watching Iron Man, I figured why not combine the two units together and gut out the "Grey Knight" aspects of the Dreadknight while we're at it?

Dreturion                               60Points/Model
Dreturions are a Heavy Support choice for all Space Marine Codexi (except Grey Knights). You may not take Centurion Assaults Squad or Centruion Devastator Squads alongside Dreturions.
[spoiler]

	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Sv	Unit Type	Unit Composition
Dreturion	5	4	6	5	3	4	3	10	2+	MonstrousCreature	1

       

Wargear: Dreturion Armour Two Powerfists Special Rules: And they Shall Know no Fear Chapter Tactics Move through cover Slow and Purposeful Very bulky

Options: You may include up to three Dreturions per Heavy Support slot. Each Dreturian may take one option from the following list: - Twin-linked Flamer..........................free - Twin-linked Meltagun......................10pts per model - Twin-linked Heavy Bolter................15pts per model - Twin-linked Lascannon....................25pts per model - Grav-Cannon & Grav-Amp...............35pts per model Or a Dreturian may replace its Powerfists with two Siege Drills for 50pts. A Dreturian with Siege Drills may take one of the following: - Twin-linked Flamer..........................free - Twin-linked Meltagun......................10pts per model Each Dreturian may take one of the following options: - Hurricane Bolters............................free - Ironclad Assault Launchers............5pts per model - Missile Launcher.............................10pts per model

Wargear & "Fixes":

• Dreturion Armour
  confers a 2+ Armour save
• Grav-cannon
  

  Range	Strength	AP	Type
  24"	-	6	Salvo 3/5, concussive, Graviton

[/spoiler]

Fully open to critique, as this is mostly just for fun, but still intended to produce a somewhat competant unit.

[Charistoph]

1) Such a small Monstrous Creature, 3W.

2) Change Siege Drills for Chain Fists.  They are much more powerful for this unit and more fitting for the price.  Siege Drills would be locked at Str 9, while Chain Fists would be Str 10 like the Power Fists.

3) They should start with a T-L gun like Bolters or Storm Bolters they can swap out for the first and second list, and then just combine the lists.  Could also link the T-L Bolter to the Power Fists, so with the swap, they lose them.

4) Why is it Slow and Purposeful?  Monstrous Creatures are already Relentless.  Just to prevent the unit from Running and firing Overwatch?

5) Models should come with Ironclad Assault Launchers and then trade for the Hurricanes or Missile Launcer.

[Narric]

Yay, time to attempt a counter-argument

1) Centurions are W2 Infantry whilst Dreadknights are W4 MCs. Considering this unit combined the two, I figured going between the two for wounds would reflect the size change, whilst taking into account ablative armour and non-fatal wounds.

2) Chainfists are still I1 due to Unweildy, and sacrificing 1 point of strength to attack at I4 doesn't seem like too bad of a trade-off. Another point to make is Chainfists are essentially just Powerfists anyway, both in modeling and in stats, whilst Siege Drills are a clearly different weapon.

3) Again harking back to the original Dreadknight, which comes with just two Powerfists in the form of Dreadnought CCWs. You have to then pay extra for your shooties and stabbies Making it so the weapons are a pay-to-use also means that the price of the Dreturion vs its output MUST be weighed up by the player, rather than just thrown onto the field in the same way Centurions can.

4) Kept in more becuase I forgot to double check what MCs came with as standard, but also becuase I'd only be going by the 6th ed rulebook. If SnP and MCs haven't changed much I can have a better look now. Preventing them from running and disabling overwatch is something I'd need input from others about whether it is a good or bad idea.

5) Dreadknights do not have IALs as standard is may only argument. Making the Hurricanes free means a player can put a small amount of shooty output onto the Dreturions at minimal cost, but with twopwerfists or Siege Drills, those IALs could easily swing combat too sharply in the Dreturions favour. This being brought up makes me think the IALs should cost more.....

Thats just my initial thoughts in response to what you said

[Charistoph]

1) Centurions are W2 Infantry whilst Dreadknights are W4 MCs. Considering this unit combined the two, I figured going between the two for wounds would reflect the size change, whilst taking into account ablative armour and non-fatal wounds.

Cool, just wanted to make sure you were confident in the direction.

2) Chainfists are still I1 due to Unweildy, and sacrificing 1 point of strength to attack at I4 doesn't seem like too bad of a trade-off. Another point to make is Chainfists are essentially just Powerfists anyway, both in modeling and in stats, whilst Siege Drills are a clearly different weapon.

No, they aren't.  Unwieldy does not affect Monstrous Creatures or Walkers.  It's a basic part of the rule.

Chainfists are Power Fists with Armourbane, one of the key features of the Siege Drill, I might add.

3) Again harking back to the original Dreadknight, which comes with just two Powerfists in the form of Dreadnought CCWs. You have to then pay extra for your shooties and stabbies Making it so the weapons are a pay-to-use also means that the price of the Dreturion vs its output MUST be weighed up by the player, rather than just thrown onto the field in the same way Centurions can.

Okay, they are a basic feature of Centurions, just making sure of direction here.

4) Kept in more becuase I forgot to double check what MCs came with as standard, but also becuase I'd only be going by the 6th ed rulebook. If SnP and MCs haven't changed much I can have a better look now. Preventing them from running and disabling overwatch is something I'd need input from others about whether it is a good or bad idea.

No changes from 6th to 7th in this regard, really.

5) Dreadknights do not have IALs as standard is may only argument. Making the Hurricanes free means a player can put a small amount of shooty output onto the Dreturions at minimal cost, but with twopwerfists or Siege Drills, those IALs could easily swing combat too sharply in the Dreturions favour. This being brought up makes me think the IALs should cost more.....

So basically, you're taking all the deficits and issues of both to create the base unit, and progressing from there?  A safe, if somewhat boring, approach.

[Narric]

If someone playtests this unit the feedback would certainly help

5) Might be boring, but I'd rather start a unit underpowered than make something OP. I think thats just something I do when it comes to fandex units.

[Charistoph]

That's why I said it was a safe approach.  There are some who seek to initially overpower and then pull back, a haggling of values approach if you will.  While others start safe and if it's too weak build it up to matter.

I really don't get chances to play very often, sadly, so I doubt I'd get a chance to try any time soon, personally.  Also I play Templar Tactics, so anything that can't Sweeping Advance I take a long hard look at before I include it in my army.  I still don't have Devastator Centurions partly because of that.

Speaking of which, will you include the option for one of three to be a sergeant?

[Narric]

My first write up initially was going to be Dreadknight-ified Centurions, with a Sergeant and two "Dreturions." I put it down becuase at the time it didn't feel right. If it were to be included, it would be a tricky path to tread. Can all Dreturians be upgraded to "Veteran" Dreturions, or stick to just one to act as a co-ordinator/Sergeant?
As in my mind they're intended to be used as single man units, a-kin to Chaos Spawn, a Sergeant upgrade seems a little redundant. Thats just my initial thoughts though.