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Author Topic: Outflanking restrictions  (Read 1403 times)

Offline Mabbz

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Outflanking restrictions
« on: March 03, 2016, 10:33:26 PM »
I had a game today, and a rules debate came up. Well, I say debate; he had an opinion which he expressed loudly (along with claiming, he had been to tournaments with this ruling), and I couldn't be bothered to press the issue. Still, I'm pretty sure he's wrong and I wanted to get your opinions on it.

The question is, when you outflank, can you come in from any point of the side table edge, or just the part that is in your deployment zone? I say whole edge, he said deployment zone. His argument appeared to be based on the idea that the reserves rules specify that models must move on from the players table edge, in their deployment zone, and that the outflank rules don't contradict that ruling.

I personally can't see anything about deployment zones in the reserves rules; as far as I can see they only say say you have to come in from your table edge. Anyone here have any idea where he might be getting this idea from?

Offline Narric

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Re: Outflanking restrictions
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2016, 11:15:22 PM »
Going by the 6th ed rulebook (not sure which edition you were playing), it doesn't specify. Only that it comes in on the table edge. Considering you're flanking the enemy, I believe the RAI would be the entire board edge, not just your deployment edge.
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Offline Waaaghpower

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Re: Outflanking restrictions
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2016, 11:32:48 PM »
Before I explain exactly how he's wrong, here's a good rule of thumb: If an interpretation of a rule makes it completely useless, then that interpretation is probably wrong.

Now, into the nitty gritty details:
Firstly, the "Moving on from reserve" rules as described on page 136 make no mention of deployment zones, only the controlling player's Table Edge. This matters, because in a Vanguard Strike game, you can actually come onto the board from reserves outside of your deployment zone by moving in from the far right (or left, depending on how you deployed) of the board. (Also, fliers and some other models can move far enough to end their turn outside the deployment zone as well, even in a normal deployment.)

Secondly, the "Outflank" Special Rule on page 168 makes zero mention of deployment zones as well. This should really be all the proof you need, as specific rules override general rules. But, combined with the first point: There is no rule saying that, when you come in from reserves, you must come in inside your deployment zone. Furthermore, Outflank specifically says you can come in from the table edge to the left or right of the player's table edge, with no mention of other restrictions.


Frankly, it sounds like he just doesn't know how to play and was making things up, or else he was trying to get an advantage by tricking you.
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Offline Mabbz

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Re: Outflanking restrictions
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2016, 11:57:10 PM »
Before I explain exactly how he's wrong, here's a good rule of thumb: If an interpretation of a rule makes it completely useless, then that interpretation is probably wrong.
I mentioned that, and his response was that it wasn't useless for everyone, just slow models, as fast models could still get pretty far onto the table (outflanking jetbikes could make it all the way to the enemy deploymeny zone). Still dumb though.

Now, into the nitty gritty details:
Firstly, the "Moving on from reserve" rules as described on page 136 make no mention of deployment zones, only the controlling player's Table Edge. This matters, because in a Vanguard Strike game, you can actually come onto the board from reserves outside of your deployment zone by moving in from the far right (or left, depending on how you deployed) of the board. (Also, fliers and some other models can move far enough to end their turn outside the deployment zone as well, even in a normal deployment.)

Secondly, the "Outflank" Special Rule on page 168 makes zero mention of deployment zones as well. This should really be all the proof you need, as specific rules override general rules. But, combined with the first point: There is no rule saying that, when you come in from reserves, you must come in inside your deployment zone. Furthermore, Outflank specifically says you can come in from the table edge to the left or right of the player's table edge, with no mention of other restrictions.
That's basically what I thought. The one thing I will say is he didn't say I had to stay in the deployment zone, just move onto the board there (so I deployed as far forward as I could and moved about 6" forward with my chimeras, ending my move outside my deployment zone).

Frankly, it sounds like he just doesn't know how to play and was making things up, or else he was trying to get an advantage by tricking you.
Possibly. I've played him before a few times, and he seems alright (irritating tendency to call me "Chief" notwithstanding). I think he probably just never found someone willing to argue with him. In the end it possibly did cost me the game, but I'm not too bothered by that. I just like to know the rules, and I would have preferred to know my outflanking was useless in advance.

 

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