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Author Topic: Kill Team (2016) Review  (Read 3597 times)

Offline BigToof

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Kill Team (2016) Review
« on: September 19, 2016, 02:49:23 AM »
Kill Team (2016) Review
AKA "What do you mean this isn't Necromunda?"

Hi All,
Yes it's been a while, so please forgive me if there's any rust on my keys, so to speak.
I've been away from 40k for a while due to the complete insanity that is the vomitage of new rules.
When you need multiple flow charts to build an army, something has gone wrong.
But, there is a light in the darkness, as GW went ahead and put out KILL TEAM.

This is not a review on the box set (which is a GREAT deal), but instead on the rules.
Because as wonderful as the fluff is, if the crunch can't hold up, it can't hold my interest.
And so far KT has done that and more.

How?

It pared down the game.

200 points.  No HQs.  No Formations.  No Flyers.  No Super-Heavies.  No 2+ saves.

When I read that line, it was like pure bliss.

But what makes it really different?

The rules are quite a bit different than the previous KT as well.
You build your army using up to 1 Elite, 2 Troops, 1 Fast Attack, but you must have at least 4 non-Vehicle units.
Said Vehicles cannot have more than 33 in overall AV, so Chimeras yes, Dreads no.

But the big kicker is that after you build your list, each MODEL counts as a different unit.

Why is this amazing?

It neuters a lot of shenanigans.  Invisibility now works on ONE model.  Most buffs don't work.

3 of your infantry (non-vehicle) models have special abilities, the most broken being ignore cover, but as it's only one unit, it's not as damning.
Plus EVERYONE gets it.  Other handy abilities include feel no pain, stealth, infiltrate, and fleshbane.
The leader gets a number of handy buffs (zealot, outflank units, steal initiative on a 4+ are the ones that stick out to me).
But, the leader is very important because if your unit is "broken" (i.e. loses more than half of its models), you must roll Ld for each model.
If you fail they are REMOVED from play.  If they are near your leader, then if the leader passes it's checks then they are all fine.

My group initially had everyone go to bikes (SM, Ork and Eldar), but you realize that there are some problems when you lose three units by chance and then everyone runs off.
Also, really expensive units can't remove more than one model a turn.
Why is this amazing?

HORDES work.  If you have 5 expensive bikes that can only kill 25 units a game at most, 50 model KTs won't care.  And that is the best case scenario.
One mate has already tried the 60 Gretchin army and it's sort of hilarious watching an elite army run after the little rascals.

INFILTRATE works.  You play on a 4x4 board, and if you can get to the nooks and crannies, you can really surprise your opponents.  Plus, it's sort of wonderful infiltrating a melta weapon up close and personal.

GRAV isn't an insta-pick any longer.  When your opponents don't have 2+, and there's no big monstrous creatures, Grav loses a lot of it's bite.  Plus, it's awful pricey and numbers do make a difference.

The missions are pretty interesting as well.  My current favorite is basically king of the hill, where you put a big terrain piece in the center of the board and whoever has the most units in the piece wins.  Another interesting one is where your army has to search for the "real objective" amongst 6 fake ones.

Overall, I think GW really hit this one out of the park.  Granted, there will be eventually some kind of broken build, but it's far more enjoyable (and faster) for me right now than the bloated standard games.  Plus the base rules are cheap and box set is a great deal.

Have you tried it?  What do you think?  Leave a comment below!

Best,
-BT

P.S.  Plans for Reps are in works, if there's still interest about...
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Online Mabbz

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Re: Kill Team (2016) Review
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2016, 07:32:58 AM »
That doesn't sound particularly different to the last KT rules from what I remember, but then I barely played the last KT rules so I could be mistaken.

My biggest questions are:
1) how does the brotherhood of psykers rule work with this?
and
2) Is there anything stopping nova powers like sunburst from being OP? Currently Sunburst would inflict 2d6 hits on every model within 9" of the psyker, which should usually kill everything within range.

P.S.  Plans for Reps are in works, if there's still interest about...
You should know by now that everyone is interested in your Battle Reports. Would there be new characters, or would we see the Baron leading a storm trooper kill team?

Offline Irisado

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Re: Kill Team (2016) Review
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2016, 09:42:26 AM »
I've never played Kill Team, but I quite like the sound of this.  A simplified version of 40K without all the layers of different Force Organisation Charts, and a reduction in special rules and their impact sounds like my kind of game.

Also, reading some battle reports would be a very good way to showcase the latest version of the rules ;).
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Offline BigToof

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Re: Kill Team (2016) Review
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2016, 11:54:51 AM »
Thank you all for the kind replies!

That doesn't sound particularly different to the last KT rules from what I remember, but then I barely played the last KT rules so I could be mistaken.

My biggest questions are:
1) how does the brotherhood of psykers rule work with this?
and
2) Is there anything stopping nova powers like sunburst from being OP? Currently Sunburst would inflict 2d6 hits on every model within 9" of the psyker, which should usually kill everything within range.

P.S.  Plans for Reps are in works, if there's still interest about...
You should know by now that everyone is interested in your Battle Reports. Would there be new characters, or would we see the Baron leading a storm trooper kill team?

Hi Mabbz,
Brotherhood of Psykers actually does not work in KT.
One thing I forgot to mention is that certain rules do not apply.
Conjuring does not work.  Ork Mob rule does not work.
Also, you cannot start in reserve unless you specifically can outflank.
Oh, yes and Nova powers would be AMAZING.
Thankfully the units being separate seems to occur during deployment (after choosing psychic powers) so there's not a horrible amount of bookkeeping, and well, Pyromancy is actually a viable discipline in KT now??
Nobody around here has played with Daemons yet, but Pink Horrors (or to a lesser extent Wyrdvane Psykers) could be formidable.  In theory at least.
And kudos for the kind words on the reps, I will try to have them out.
I have some new character ideas.  Right now, I've only played with Ork Bikers, but I'm not sure if I'll stay with them as yet...

I've never played Kill Team, but I quite like the sound of this.  A simplified version of 40K without all the layers of different Force Organisation Charts, and a reduction in special rules and their impact sounds like my kind of game.

Also, reading some battle reports would be a very good way to showcase the latest version of the rules ;).


Thank you Irisado,
I do aim to please :)
Reps are in the works.  Only Orks right now, but if I have a great game that may be pushed to the forefront.

If anyone has a great idea for a build let me know!

Best,
-BT
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Re: Kill Team (2016) Review
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2016, 04:02:41 PM »
Hi Mabbz,
Brotherhood of Psykers actually does not work in KT.

...

Thankfully the units being separate seems to occur during deployment (after choosing psychic powers) so there's not a horrible amount of bookkeeping, and well, Pyromancy is actually a viable discipline in KT now??

Nobody around here has played with Daemons yet, but Pink Horrors (or to a lesser extent Wyrdvane Psykers) could be formidable.  In theory at least.
So... I can't take Wyrdvane Psykers? Or they all count as separate psykers (Broken as hell)? Or something else?

One thing I forgot to mention is that certain rules do not apply.
Conjuring does not work.  Ork Mob rule does not work.
Also, you cannot start in reserve unless you specifically can outflank.
Aww, no deep striking? Pity, that could have been cool.

And kudos for the kind words on the reps, I will try to have them out.
I have some new character ideas.  Right now, I've only played with Ork Bikers, but I'm not sure if I'll stay with them as yet...
Either way, I look forward to it.

Offline Cammerz

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Re: Kill Team (2016) Review
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2016, 10:36:37 PM »
That does sound uncannily like the previous rules, but that's probably a good thing because I really like the previous rules. I've played a few Kill Team missions using 6th ed and they've all been great fun, and as someone who has fun creating army lists it provides even more enjoyment.

So far my best performing list has been Tau; 6x stealth battlesuits, one with a fusion blaster, I think I still had suffieicent points to add a Shas'Vre with an unused markerlight. The ability to jump-shoot-jump is fantastic in KT, as are the 4+ cover saves in the open. With four shots a round per burst cannon I can reliably kill 5 or 6 enemies in each turn.

Other fun lists include; a squad of 8x Chaos Space Marines driving around inside a Rhino (in Kill Team it seems much harder to crack armour like that), 7x Toughness 6 Nurgle Bikers, and 10x Sniper Kroot covering 2x Piranhas.

And finally BT, I would of course love to see more Battle Reports from you. I gave it a go in your absence but it just isn't the same.
Ahh Cammerz has typed himself into oblivion! :o Someone get him back xD

Offline BigToof

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Re: Kill Team (2016) Review
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2016, 11:11:39 AM »
Hi Mabbz,
Brotherhood of Psykers actually does not work in KT.

...

Thankfully the units being separate seems to occur during deployment (after choosing psychic powers) so there's not a horrible amount of bookkeeping, and well, Pyromancy is actually a viable discipline in KT now??

Nobody around here has played with Daemons yet, but Pink Horrors (or to a lesser extent Wyrdvane Psykers) could be formidable.  In theory at least.
So... I can't take Wyrdvane Psykers? Or they all count as separate psykers (Broken as hell)? Or something else?

One thing I forgot to mention is that certain rules do not apply.
Conjuring does not work.  Ork Mob rule does not work.
Also, you cannot start in reserve unless you specifically can outflank.
Aww, no deep striking? Pity, that could have been cool.

And kudos for the kind words on the reps, I will try to have them out.
I have some new character ideas.  Right now, I've only played with Ork Bikers, but I'm not sure if I'll stay with them as yet...
Either way, I look forward to it.

Hi Mabbz,
It's kind of hard to figure out how psykers are supposed to be used in KT, but I would assume that you still are limited to one psychic point per squad, but I suppose it can be ruled the other way... (house rule until FAQ?)
Sadly, no Deep striking or most reserve shenanigans, but I think that's just to keep things more fair...

That does sound uncannily like the previous rules, but that's probably a good thing because I really like the previous rules. I've played a few Kill Team missions using 6th ed and they've all been great fun, and as someone who has fun creating army lists it provides even more enjoyment.

So far my best performing list has been Tau; 6x stealth battlesuits, one with a fusion blaster, I think I still had suffieicent points to add a Shas'Vre with an unused markerlight. The ability to jump-shoot-jump is fantastic in KT, as are the 4+ cover saves in the open. With four shots a round per burst cannon I can reliably kill 5 or 6 enemies in each turn.

Other fun lists include; a squad of 8x Chaos Space Marines driving around inside a Rhino (in Kill Team it seems much harder to crack armour like that), 7x Toughness 6 Nurgle Bikers, and 10x Sniper Kroot covering 2x Piranhas.

And finally BT, I would of course love to see more Battle Reports from you. I gave it a go in your absence but it just isn't the same.

Hi Cammerz,
Great to hear from you!
I'm still working on the reps, and I'm glad to see that you did reps of your own when I was out of action.
And thanks also for the suggestions, I'm looking into new builds all the time!

Best,
-BT
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Offline Waaaghpower

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Re: Kill Team (2016) Review
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2016, 07:37:00 AM »
I approach 40k from the perspective of a kid smashing his favorite toys together and making dinosaur noises, so I've never been a fan of Kill Team - Big, climactic battles where you can take impressive armies is more my bag.

That being said, these rules sound interesting, even if I can see a half dozen ways that they don't so much 'Fix' the balance as they do change the meta.
(Just for example from reading this, Power Weapons suddenly work like they did in 5th ed - Power Swords are beastmode. AP2 isn't any better than AP3, so unless you REALLY want +1S for some reason, regular swords are going to be the default choice for everyone again. This isn't a bad thing, but it's also not a fix to balance so much as it is a change - Armor no longer presents a choice between striking at initiative, cracking through it at I1, or paying out the nose for fancy relics or other expensive options, instead you can chop through anything with ease using any power weapon.)

I may give it a try, if the opportunity arises.
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Offline BigToof

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Re: Kill Team (2016) Review
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2016, 09:47:07 AM »
I approach 40k from the perspective of a kid smashing his favorite toys together and making dinosaur noises, so I've never been a fan of Kill Team - Big, climactic battles where you can take impressive armies is more my bag.

That being said, these rules sound interesting, even if I can see a half dozen ways that they don't so much 'Fix' the balance as they do change the meta.
(Just for example from reading this, Power Weapons suddenly work like they did in 5th ed - Power Swords are beastmode. AP2 isn't any better than AP3, so unless you REALLY want +1S for some reason, regular swords are going to be the default choice for everyone again. This isn't a bad thing, but it's also not a fix to balance so much as it is a change - Armor no longer presents a choice between striking at initiative, cracking through it at I1, or paying out the nose for fancy relics or other expensive options, instead you can chop through anything with ease using any power weapon.)

I may give it a try, if the opportunity arises.

Sorry for the late reply, but I wanted to say after playing more KT, I have to say that it's not perfect by any means, but a meta shakeup is SO refreshing.
I mean, any game that makes Orks and Wyches at least something near viable is a welcome sight.
But, you know...  needs terrain SO bad to make it work.

Best,
-BT
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Offline Deraj

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Re: Kill Team (2016) Review
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2017, 02:41:07 PM »
I really like kill team (though it slightly neuters my grey knights, but not enough to matter.)

You are very correct in that terrain makes this game. It's cinematic and all about cover. I'm not really a fan of the breaking point mechanic, but you can just agree to ignore those if you really want. There is also a problem with close combat. If you're in combat with 3 models and have 3 attacks, do you still have to pour all 3 onto one single model? Because that's a bit unfortunate. Also with hordes getting into combat; as they're individual units they can only get attacks if they're in base contact. It's funny and cinematic to back a space marine into a corner and fight off one guy at a time, but it can also get frustrating to the horde player. I'd like some mechanic that made any model within 2" of another count as in a unit with that model, just for the purposes of brotherhood of psykers, shooting, and close combat, but it's a nitpick, not a real problem.

Offline BigToof

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Re: Kill Team (2016) Review
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2017, 12:29:51 AM »
Agreed with the issues that you mentioned.
I would love to have a psyker FAQ definitely.
As for assault, it's sort of nice that overkill does happen as it lets us with weedier models feel like we earned that kill (not that I'm biased at all as a Dark Eldar player...), but I can understand the opposite feeling as a Grey Knight player...
Are you still finding interest in your area with KT or has that kind of gone to the wayside?

Best,
-BT
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Offline Deraj

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Re: Kill Team (2016) Review
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2017, 02:08:19 PM »
It came and went in an instant. It was massive for all of maybe a month, and I loved it, and wished it had stuck around, but most people in my area didn't get into 40k for small scale skirmishes, but the massive, world ending battles of apocalypse.

What I really loved about it though? The painting opportunities. I painted 10 orks, a trukk, and 2 skorchas for one warband and 6? (maybe 7) grey knights for another, and that allowed me to take the time to get them to display quality. And for the first time (at a hobby shop that gives better prize support for best painted army than first place) the majority of players had their forces painted, which makes the game a completely different experience.

 

anything