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Another seeker missile question

Started by knightperson, September 11, 2012, 05:57:55 PM

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Can a Seeker Missile be fired from a Tau vehicle that goes Flat Out?

No
Yes

knightperson

Supporting argument for option 1:
Of course not. A vehicle can not even snap-fire if it moves in the shooting phase, so no seeker missiles. The codex clearly says "allow a vehicle to fire a seeker."

Supporting argument for option 2:
Of course it can. The vehicle only carries the missile to the battlefield, it doesn't launch it. The seeker missile is fired by the unit declaring use of the markerlight counter, so the vehicle's position and movement is irrelevant. The codex clearly states that a seeker can be fired regardless of how fast the vehicle moves.

I prefer option 2, as I always have, because it's an interpretation consistent with the way markerlights work for their other purposes. Essentially, when a Tau unit claims use of a markerlight counter, the effects of it happen immediately for that unit. The effect when using the counter for a seeker missile is that the unit or model firing at the marked unit gets a one-shot assault weapon that can be fired in addition to any other weapons. That interpretation is not strictly supported by RAW because the text says "allow a vehicle to fire" a missile rather "cause a seeker missile to detach from a vehicle", but it's consistent and not cheezy. I do not like the interpretation that the seeker missile fires itself whenever you have a spare markerlight counter, as that one removes the planning and resource-management aspect of the seeker missile strike.

Let the discussion begin!
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Charistoph

Interesting wording.  If you had said, "Can a vehicle shoot a Seeker Missile after going Flat Out?", I would say no, because it can't shoot, and therefore cannot effectively use a Markerlight (though, there is no direct RAW support for this).

But your wording indicates that it would fired from and not by the vehicle, thereby bypassing the limitations imposed on the vehicle just as it could be fired from a Stunned or Shaken vehicle in previous editions.

Therefore, yes, it can.
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Agreed with Charistoph. Unless erratta changed how Markerlights work in the Tau Codex, they would work exactly the same as in the previous edition ;)
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InsaneTD

Unfortunately due to the wording of the codex, I can tell this will be an issue for a while to come. I'm going with option two as that seems to be RAI.

I can't work out why these discussions didn't come up in fifth... Maybe I just don't remember them. :P

knightperson

Seeker missiles have always been a problem. The rules are not written very clearly, and they've never been FAQ'd except by unofficial sources like INAT. Part of the problem, especially where cover saves are concerned, is that the initial authors of Codex Tau didn't consider that you would ever fire seekers at non-vehicle targets, and in 4th Edition vehicles couldn't take cover saves at all.
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Watchdog

Quote from: knightperson on September 12, 2012, 04:11:33 PM
Seeker missiles have always been a problem. The rules are not written very clearly, and they've never been FAQ'd except by unofficial sources like INAT. Part of the problem, especially where cover saves are concerned, is that the initial authors of Codex Tau didn't consider that you would ever fire seekers at non-vehicle targets, and in 4th Edition vehicles couldn't take cover saves at all.

The bolded part is not correct. For instance Tau FAQ version 1.1 (March 2011) contained this:

Q: How are cover saves worked out for smart missile
systems and seeker missiles as they do not need line of
sight? (p27, 30)
A: The target will only receive cover saves that are not
based on line of sight. This would include when at least
half the unit is in area terrain; or a vehicle with wargear or
a special rule that means they are obscurred.

knightperson

Good point. The rule had been such a mess for so long, I guess I assumed GW was never going to clear it up!

The details of during which unit's shooting the markerlight counter is used while firing a seeker is still kinda murky, however. For example, if you stretch the interpretation I described above you could say that a broadside unit could consume 5 markerlight hits at once to fire its weapons at +1 BS, call for two seeker missiles, and reduce the cover save of the obscured target by two points. If the seeker missiles become single-shot weapons for the squad using them, then that cover save reduction would apply to them as well as the railgun fire.
Cured of what I'm suffering from, but suffering from the cure.

Enderwiggin

The weapons were, at one point, ruled to need separate ML hits for each missile if you wanted the fun effects.

I don't recall if this was just the tournament standard, FAQ/Errata, or call-in ruling (doubtful since those guys were never consistent) but it was generally understood as that for every Tau player I saw IRL. (Not that the numbers ever surged back up).


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