Blinding Venom and Hammer of Wraith

[Chicop76]

Well I decied to look through my Tyranid codex tonight. I was looking at flying swarms with delight until I came across the gargoyles. Thanks to 6th the gargoyles are much better if flying with a winged flyrant with preferred enemy. Their range attacks and melee attacks can now re roll to hit and you hammer of wrath on top of that. Just 3 alone would get 9 attacks on the charge for under 20 points which is a lot.

Anyway I was looking at blinding venom which allows rolls to hit on a six to automatically wound. My question is would that work with your hammer of wrath attacks. For 120 points I could dish out 60 attacks on the charge that would cause 10 auto wounds. Throw in preferred enemy that is 15 auto wounds and 30 hits that would be 25 wounds on marines or 30 wounds against toughness three models which can be quite deadly.

Found my main book and answered my question. I forgot hammer auto hits which changes the math.

60 attacks
20 auto hit
7 wound
40 attacks left
6 auto wound
14 hits
Preferred enemy
3 auto wound
7 hit
21 hits total
7 wounds
23 wounds to marines which is worse than what I said earler and 29 wounds to toughness 3 models

With the one point upgrade for poison at the same point cost you get
48 attacks roughly
16 attacks auto hit
8 attacks wound 4 or higher, 12 attacks wound 3 or lower
32 attacks left
5 auto wound
11 hit
Re roll
3 auto wound
5 hit
16 hits, 8 wounds 4 or higher, 12 wounds on 3 or lower
24 wounds on 4 or higher, 32 wounds on toughness 3 or lower

If my math is right or close. The poison is not a good upgrade for a little more kills since you are dropping 3 models to do so. However aganst toughness five and higher it is a great upgrade. That would easily kill a wraithlord no problem at the same cost of a cheap wraith lord. Killing 8 marines is rather nice and nearly wiping out an orc squad is fantastic.

Off course you will lose models to overwatch. Although you can run 10 more models easily whic still make my math pretty valid if you run a flyrant near by. That is not including the possible random powers the tyrant can throw on them like endurance, feel no pain and we will not die would be awesome on this unit.

Thinking about it. Hammer of Wrath is really good on cheap models. It also dawn on me my Seekers are so much better now. Although it is hard to compete with screamers.

This brings up another question. With screamers the hammer of wraith attacks is just ap- and strength 5, but what about with rending attacks. Would you get rending with your wrath attacks. Wrath is just ap- and you basic strength, but you still need to roll a 6 to rend. The rending effect will make the wound ap 2 and d3 in strength. With seekers that is more rending possible for them. Units with poison attacks really benefit from the hammer as well.

[DEF Knight]

regular attack at your base strength, so no added benefits. No rending.

[Chicop76]

regular attack at your base strength, so no added benefits. No rending.

It is an unmodified strength attack. I can see modifiers like furious charge, hammer hand, etc. I how ever do not see poison, or rending as a modifier except the d3 to strength.

Pg.2 main book defines modifiers. Hmmm nvm rending wouldn't work since the ap 2 is a modifier. That also means no poison either. However it doesn't stop the re roll to wound ability. So if the strength is equal or greater you would not get the +4, but you will still get the re roll to wound.

[DEF Knight]

Hammer of Wrath attacks are not standard melee attacks. They are separate, bonus, attacks with a specific profile. They are "a single  S: User AP: - hit per model". This is provided not by skill at arms, nor by superior technology but by sheer momentum. Units get Hammer of Wrath attacks because they are their moving very quickly with considerable mass, or moving somewhat quickly with gargantuan mass. Poisonous glands or warp tinged talons are quite irrelevant, this is solely about the crush of bodies.

That means no USRs, no equipment bonuses, no re-rolls, nothing. A monstrous creature gets a single hit at it's unmodified strength, as does a cavalry model, as does a jetbike, as does a jump infantry. It functions much the same as a Combat Familiar as detailed in Codex Chaos Space Marines, or a Techmarine's servo harness attacks, or a Purifier's Cleansing Flames.

[Chicop76]

Hammer of Wrath attacks are not standard melee attacks. They are separate, bonus, attacks with a specific profile. They are "a single  S: User AP: - hit per model". This is provided not by skill at arms, nor by superior technology but by sheer momentum. Units get Hammer of Wrath attacks because they are their moving very quickly with considerable mass, or moving somewhat quickly with gargantuan mass. Poisonous glands or warp tinged talons are quite irrelevant, this is solely about the crush of bodies.

That means no USRs, no equipment bonuses, no re-rolls, nothing. A monstrous creature gets a single hit at it's unmodified strength, as does a cavalry model, as does a jetbike, as does a jump infantry. It functions much the same as a Combat Familiar as detailed in Codex Chaos Space Marines, or a Techmarine's servo harness attacks, or a Purifier's Cleansing Flames.

I understand that. Just going by RAW I do not see any argument that the re roll to wound would not work. The ap and str bonuse are modifiers so they will not work. The re roll ability is not a modifier and should work.