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The Black Mace and Challenges

Started by The Man They Call Jayne, December 31, 2012, 01:42:48 AM

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The Man They Call Jayne

The rules for challenge state that ONLY the models in the challenge can be wounded but the Duellists.

The rules for the Black Mace say that anyone within 3inches has to suffer the effects.

My interpretation is that the effects CAN affect people outside of the challenge because it is an area effect ability, and you arent targetting them directly.

Alternative veiws?
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Scout Sergeant Mkoll

I would assume that as a Challenge is a special kind of combat that the rulebook overrides the codex in this instance.

Out of curiosity, what does the Black Mace do that affects models within 3"? I thought it just gave +2 Strength, or am I mixing up wargear again?
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The Man They Call Jayne

The Black Mace is a unique Chaos Artifact, similar to the Burning Brand Of Skalathrax.

It is able to remove the target from play after a Toughness test if it is wounded, and then every enemy withing 3" has to take a test or suffer a wound. Stat wise it is the same as any other mace though. +2S and AP4.
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Scout Sergeant Mkoll

Hmmm...interesting. I can't find anything in any FAQ about this, even for similar issues such as Yriel's power or Lukas's stasis bomb.

How does the Challenge rule word how the models are moved into contact? Are they separated from the rest of the combat in any way? If so I would assume that only the model in the challenge can be affected. Otherwise, I'm not sure.
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Quote from: Mabbz on June 03, 2011, 10:43:53 AM
Mkoll wins.

Quote from: LordDemon
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to catch you.

[img]http

The Man They Call Jayne

The challenge is issued and the Challenger and the Challengee are moved to the front of their respective units until they are in base contact. They can only strike each other and wounds over the amount that the models can afford to lose are not passed on to the rest of the squad but do count toward resolution.

The Black Mace says that AFTER a model has been killed, you then affect everyone else with the ability.

I would say it does work because, for example, you CANNOT hit your own men with a blast template, but you can scatter and still hit them. The Black Mace isnt targetting the other memebers of the squad, but they are still effected by the shockwaves, or the warp energies or whatever it uses to do its thing.

Plus, I suppose Codex > Rulebook.
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Fhanados

Correct me if I'm wrong but the Black Mace doesn't specify that the models within 3" have to be in combat does it? This would mean that you could hurt models that aren't even in combat that are within its area of effect, and therefore would be also able to harm the unit the challenger/challengee were part of.

I don't have my codex with me, but that was my interpretation of the rule last time I read it.

Cammerz

Quote from: Fhanados on January 07, 2013, 09:58:21 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but the Black Mace doesn't specify that the models within 3" have to be in combat does it? This would mean that you could hurt models that aren't even in combat that are within its area of effect, and therefore would be also able to harm the unit the challenger/challengee were part of.

I don't have my codex with me, but that was my interpretation of the rule last time I read it.

Looking at the codex I'd say that I agree with this interpretation. The only requirements are:
1) Be a non-vehicle enemy model,
2) Be within 3" of the wielder,
3) Be something which hasn't already suffered an unsaved wound from the Black Mace this phase.