Ahriman Vs Chaos Sorcerer

[The Man They Call Jayne]

So who is better? The Sorcerer can be lvl3, Can have the ability to re-roll Psychic Powers tests, and can get a 3++, has access to other weapons, including the Artefacts list. However, he only has 2 wounds.

Ahriman can take 4 powers, use 3 witchfire attacks per turn and has 3 wounds, but he cant use any upgrades, cant get a spell familiar and can only get a 4++.

For 235 point, I can make a Lvl3 psyker with a 3++, the Burning Brand and the ability to re-roll his psychic tests. Thats only 5 points more than Ahriman, and is actually quite a bit more survivalbe. The only trade off is the ability to use as many witchfire attacks, and some extra wounds.

Thoughts?

[Chicop76]

So who is better? The Sorcerer can be lvl3, Can have the ability to re-roll Psychic Powers tests, and can get a 3++, has access to other weapons, including the Artefacts list. However, he only has 2 wounds.

Ahriman can take 4 powers, use 3 witchfire attacks per turn and has 3 wounds, but he cant use any upgrades, cant get a spell familiar and can only get a 4++.

For 235 point, I can make a Lvl3 psyker with a 3++, the Burning Brand and the ability to re-roll his psychic tests. Thats only 5 points more than Ahriman, and is actually quite a bit more survivalbe. The only trade off is the ability to use as many witchfire attacks, and some extra wounds.

Thoughts?

My prob is that I do not have the chaos book if Ahriman have select powers while the sorceror has random powers I would say that would be a big thing. If they both are random I would go with the sorceror.

1. 3+ invulnerable is more of a pain to get through
2. Torret flamer is a beast
3. I rather play a custom model over a named character
4. The re roll is big vs nids and eldar who could force you to roll with 3 dice. In a normal game it allows you to have a higher chance to use a power.
5. Depends how useful the 4 powers are vs the 3 random powers

Not knowing the powers again plays a huge role in the selection.

[The Man They Call Jayne]

Both roll random powers. Although Ahriman MUST take at least 1 power from the Chaos Tzeentch Powers list. If the sorcerer has a Mark, they MUST take at least one power from the appropriate gods powers list, and no more than half of the powers can be from the chaos book.

So Ahriman could roll up Tzeentch, Biomancy, Biomancy, Telepathy for example. Or Tzeentch, Tzeentch, Pyromancy, Telepathy.

[Chicop76]

Both roll random powers. Although Ahriman MUST take at least 1 power from the Chaos Tzeentch Powers list. If the sorcerer has a Mark, they MUST take at least one power from the appropriate gods powers list, and no more than half of the powers can be from the chaos book.

So Ahriman could roll up Tzeentch, Biomancy, Biomancy, Telepathy for example. Or Tzeentch, Tzeentch, Pyromancy, Telepathy.

If that is the case I would probably rather a Tzeentch Sorceror with a mrk of Tzeench.

[Aun]

Another thing to consider is that Ahriman also comes with what might be the best Warlord Trait in the game right now base.

For 235 point, I can make a Lvl3 psyker with a 3++, the Burning Brand and the ability to re-roll his psychic tests.

I think your math might be a bit off. A sorcerer with all of the listed gear is only 195 points

Really, I feel the main thing to consider is just how many points you want to drop on an HQ. Ahriman is definitely worth 250 points if you want to drop that many on your character. However, for 165 points (Lvl3, sigils, mark, familiar) a normal sorcerer is hard to beat.

[The Man They Call Jayne]

Ahriman is 20 points less than that, and the Sorcerer had other things too. Mark of Tzeentch and A Scroll Of Magnus. Although I think I costed the Scroll at only 40 points by mistake.


I agree that Ahrimans Warlord Trais is the best on availiable, but personally I dont rely on them or make a list with the use of that trait in mind.

[Aun]

Ahriman is 20 points less than that, and the Sorcerer had other things too. Mark of Tzeentch and A Scroll Of Magnus. Although I think I costed the Scroll at only 40 points by mistake.

The Scroll of Magnus is utterly worthless trash for a sorcerer. Its overly expensive, and the auto-hit it causes has a very real chance of wounding your 2 wound model. Besides, its random psychic power only MIGHT be useful.
The Burning Brand might be alright, but you have to trade in your bolt pistol when you buy it losing an attack. Normally that wouldn't be a great concern but Chaos Sorcerers are forced to accept and issue challenges like everyone else, so that extra attack is very important.

I agree that Ahrimans Warlord Trais is the best on availiable, but personally I dont rely on them or make a list with the use of that trait in mind.

I dont follow. If Ahriman's trait is guaranteed then you can rely on it and make a list with its use in mind.
Your going to get at least one unit that can infiltrate, so if you take ahirman build a unit that can take advantage of that. Odds are you'll get two, so make two.

[The Man They Call Jayne]

The Hit from the Scroll is only S3, so it needs 5s to wound, and if you have a 3++ save, you are pretty safe from it. But yeah, It isnt the best use of the points unless you are playing a very very fluffy list.

And I mean that I have never relied on getting a useful warlord trait. And because I dont usually take Specials I don't get set traits to work with.

[Fhanados]

Personally I prefer a standard sorcerer to save points, but if I wanted a psychic beast I'd use Ahriman. For me his main draw is the ability to use multiple witchfire spells, something a standard psyker can't do. This coupled with the mandatory roll on Tzeentch, and various other witchfire powers from the standard lores gives him a better chance to actually make use of his powers if you roll a bunch of witchfires, which may be considered unwanted by a sorc. Throw in an extra wound, his warlord trait and inferno bolts (a small upgrade but it can make a difference) and you have a pretty decent character.

The standard sorcerer is brilliant in that you can make him as cheap or as expensive as you like. You've already listed a bunch of possible options for it but I usually run him as Lvl3 with Tzeentch and Sigil of Corruption. Simple, fairly cheap, effective. His only downside is the mandatory Tzeentch roll, but really that's not too much of a bad thing. I don't hate on the Tzeentch lore as much as other people seem to, and you only need one roll on it so you can still get some good spells from other lores (I like biomancy personally). I wouldn't put burning brand on him though, as it interferes with witchfires.

When it comes down to it I think it really depends on your game size. Would I take Ahriman in a 750pt game? No. I'd use a cheap Sorcerer, possibly unmarked Lvl2-3 with a stock lore. Would I take him in a 1250pt game? Probably yes (although considering my Word Bearers themed army he might look a bit out of place...).

[The Man They Call Jayne]

Personally, I always hope to roll Gift of Mutation on the Tzeentch table. The extra boon rolls can gradually build your Sorcerer up into an absolute beast. I think I would ALWAYS take a Spell Familiar though. It just lets you laugh at Psychic Tests. Kind of gutting that rolling Perils is an automatic wound lost now though.

[Arguleon-veq]

I think the sorcerer is better but not with that kit out, i think a normal sorcerer is much better simply because you can have a Lvl3 for so few points. Best value psykers in the game.

[The Man They Call Jayne]

It is great value, but the extra 15 points for a Spell Familiar should be a no brainer. And the Sigil at the very least.