New Dark Angels: Are You Afraid?

[BigToof]

Hi All,
So... new Codex, new worries.

I know I was worried, until I saw them in action.

They are a very interesting bunch of Beakies with many items and units that are force multipliers.

Many people scream that they are afraid, but are we (as Xenos and Chaos)?

I say no.

Their fliers aren't anything to worry about.
They have cheap Tacticals, but in the end they're still just tacticals.
Cheap Librarians, but still nothing earth shattering (Prescience they can get tho...)

The main thing to be worried about are the Ravenwing and Deathwing.  Both can be scoring, both can be deadly.

Deathwing (IMHO) hasn't changed all that much.  They can split fire and deep strike accurately (with Belial) and are very reliable.  I can see big squads of 2+/3++ Hammernators with Cyclones or Assault Cannons walking over to try to take your lunch money.  But in the end, they're still just Terminators.  Pricey, slow and although shooty, they're not all THAT shooty.

Ravenwing is more dangerous.  They're fast, have a banner that lets them add 1d6 to their hit and run (!) and yes, they all have scout and hit and run.  So very dangerous in that they can easily propel themselves across the board.  Their upgraded versions are the Black Knights, most notable that they have twin-linked plasmaguns (but shorter range), rending +1S weapons, and also rad grenade launchers (ala Grey Knights Cheez).  But they're in the Fast Attack category, so if they take BKs, then they can't take their fancy Dark Shroud LS, which gives them all Stealth.

So...  How do you plan on fighting the Dark Angels?

I can speak for Orks.

1) Deathwing
Beakies are still beakies.  2+ beakies are solved by Boyz.  TH/SS Beakies are about the cost of 8 Boyz!  So... let them know what it feels like when they eventually run out of saves

2) Ravenwing
So... FAST!  But you cannot outrun Bullet!  Or... Lootas really.
Lootas will be chewing apart Ravenwing, as we don't really care about cover saves, and the fancy Land Speeders can get dropped pretty fast by weight of fire as they are only AR10 and HP2, which means that it's once again a good day for the greenskins!
Just don't try to tarpit, as they can hit and run and get all over your squishier mates in the backlines.  The Ravenwing are really about hit and running and spraying plasma/melta on your boyz, but in the end... Orks are cheaper, but this will be a very annoying battle, as the Ravenwing can hide in your tarpits and run around your elites.  Smashing them first might be a better answer.  Still, you can catch them as they don't have annoying Combat Tactics like SM Bikers.

So... anyone else have ideas/comments for other armies?

Best,
-BT

[Arguleon-veq]

As you say, Termies and Tacs are pretty much the same as usual so no more of a threat than usual.

Im a little concerned about black knights but high S multi shot shooting deals with them just as easy as it deals with normal marines. They can stack the shroud with the black knights in a ravenwing force though I can see lots of 2xblack knights supported by a darkshroud and then ravenwing scoring. The shroud is pretty hard to shootdown with its own cover save.

I think the problem for ravenwing is that Lootas, Tesla, DE Poision, Eldar Scatter Lasers will gun them down easily. These weapons dont care about T5 so much and they dont care about them getting 3+[for black knights with skilled rider]or 4+ cover when moving next to a darkshroud and these are the weapons those armies are using anyway so they dont even need to change their list to deal with black knights.

It is a pain for my wolf missile launchers and T5 is a pain for my guard lasgun spam but its not much of a problem for xenos armies.

Armies like this though will need to worry if they dont get first turn and lose these high S high volume weapons. Ravenwing armies have a big threat range thanks to their speed and a lot of these units packing these weapons are fragile. Eladr War Walkers, DE Venoms, Ork Lootas. If you do lose them then you are in for a very tough time as the Black Knights can crash through massive Ork units or gun down any DE skimmer/flyer but at least Lootas have the luxury of deploying as far back as possible. The scout move just makes it hard to stay safe. Scout gives plasma talons a 42'' threat range in the first turn add that to at least a 12'' deployment will mean its hard to not have your key units shot early on. As usual, going first is pretty key.

[Chicop76]

I have not gotten the codex yet, but with half the armies I play I have to say no.

Daemons: Flamers of Tzeentch gets terminators and cover saving bikes really good. Also screamers can easily back up my flamers.  I think they should fear Daemons.

Guard: I can force re rolls on passed cover saves, mass fire power, banewolf, mass fire power, lots of large blast templates, did I said mass fire power. Thanks to being able to move and shoot with rapid fire weapons I can advance and fire and fall back and fire. A 50 man squad can produce 100 lasgun shots quite easily. 100 shots/ 50 hits/ 16 wounds/ roughly 3 dead terminators a turn. In 2 turns that amountof shooting can easily get rid of your average terminator squad. Although it is likely you would run plasma guns on top of mass fire. Again they should fear this army.

Sisters: all I can say screwed again and I just have to bend over and take it.

Grey Knights: calladius can deal with the bikes rather nicely, guard psyker squad allies thrown in the bikes will ceast to exist. I think the knights have the adavantage of tons of fire power, and some really good combat units. It would probably be a good game, but the knights probably would win.

Tau: Bike army , Term army . However tau can deny cover and produce a respectable amount of plasma. My problem is kill the crisis suits and you are hosed. In rapid fire with normal bs they can dish out 24 shots/ 12 hits/ 8 wounds/ 1 dead terminator. My issue is that is not enough. Even with marker lights 24 shots/ 20 hits/ 14 wounds 2 dead terminators, that is a lot of points to do that. Honestly it is a lot of points to do anything with Tau. Until they get a new dex Tau will bend over like sisters, not as badly though because Tau can still beat them.

Tyranids: unless they can dish out lots of fire power I would say they would get consumed. Re roll to hits on shooting, combat, overwatch with poison attacks. Not really worried. My Tervigon can have up to 10 attacks now or have a toughness of 9. Grenades that lower toughness to 9 is a serious problem. Not tooo worried, because they will have to get through like 100 gaunts to get to my t 6 models. In combat my 20 gaunts against terms, if assaulting. 40 attacks/ 30 hits/ 22 wounds which means 3 or almost 4 dead terminators. If assaulted they can only kill 2 on average, but the re roll to hit and to wound if they charge can deal with most threats. I fear guard, grey knights and high shooty, but do not think I should fear this.

Marines: they got better toys so yeah. I should lose.

[crisis_vyper]

Hi All,
So... new Codex, new worries.

I know I was worried, until I saw them in action.

They are a very interesting bunch of Beakies with many items and units that are force multipliers.

Many people scream that they are afraid, but are we (as Xenos and Chaos)?

I say no.

My short answer as a Xenos is also no.

My long answer would be that most Xenos armies that I know of tend to be designed around the idea of Marines being their primary opponent and thus would not find it difficult to kill them off as compared to say Imperial Guard for example. In fact I find that there is a weird triad going on now with the Xenos armies being able to kill Marines easily, while the Marines are able to kill off Imperial Guards easily, and Imperial Guard being able to kill Xenos easily. The proliferation of the more elite Dark Angels will not help the Dark Angels in their fight against Xenos players who are used to or even specialized in killing Marine opponents.

As a Xenos player, I always designed my list to be able to take down elite armies easily, but do well enough so that I can fight against any other armies.

Their fliers aren't anything to worry about.
They have cheap Tacticals, but in the end they're still just tacticals.
Cheap Librarians, but still nothing earth shattering (Prescience they can get tho...)

First two are true, the third one needs more respect as a result of Prescience and the firepower of the Dark Angels as a whole.

The main thing to be worried about are the Ravenwing and Deathwing.  Both can be scoring, both can be deadly.

Deathwing (IMHO) hasn't changed all that much.  They can split fire and deep strike accurately (with Belial) and are very reliable.  I can see big squads of 2+/3++ Hammernators with Cyclones or Assault Cannons walking over to try to take your lunch money.  But in the end, they're still just Terminators.  Pricey, slow and although shooty, they're not all THAT shooty.

Ravenwing is more dangerous.  They're fast, have a banner that lets them add 1d6 to their hit and run (!) and yes, they all have scout and hit and run.  So very dangerous in that they can easily propel themselves across the board.  Their upgraded versions are the Black Knights, most notable that they have twin-linked plasmaguns (but shorter range), rending +1S weapons, and also rad grenade launchers (ala Grey Knights Cheez).  But they're in the Fast Attack category, so if they take BKs, then they can't take their fancy Dark Shroud LS, which gives them all Stealth.

The thing is that the Banner is only on the command squad, and you can not increase their numbers. This is bad because there are only three members in a Ravenwing command squad. As I will be starting my own Ravenwing, I will say that the Ravenwing Banner is not necessary, but the question now is that whether or not they could take the Sacred Standards due to some typos.

Black Knights I will have to play test them to see if they are really as nasty as they come, but the thing with them is that on paper and the ensuring practical tabletop you do not need more than 1-2 squads, which would still allow you to take a Darkshroud or two into the army.

So...  How do you plan on fighting the Dark Angels?

Dark Eldar: Do the same thing I always do, but this time with more poison.

Death Guard: Need to be careful, but it can manage the Dark Angels.

Sisters: Derp.

Tau: Even more Derp.

Daemons: With the way my mono-Tzeentch is build, I personally do not think that Dark Angels would be a problem.

Orks: I guess I am okay right now with my Orks. Burnas, Lootas, Tankbustas, Nobs, Boyz......Yeah I am covered I guess.