Tau codex??!

[SILK]

Just wait until you get a shiney new book for your nids. I bet theres going to be a load of new tricks that will make you laugh like a mad man.

Overall, the new books seem fairly balanced against each other. Just wish that Deathwing actually worked in the DA book 

[Scout Sergeant Mkoll]

Just wait until you get a shiney new book for your nids. I bet theres going to be a load of new tricks that will make you laugh like a mad man.

I don't want shiny new tricks, I want the Tyranid codex to work as it should. Carnifexes should be a threat, not a joke, Warriors should have the option to move as Beasts, Hormagaunts should always be Beasts, shooting should be relatively sub-par but we should be quick and nothing short of lethal in combat.

In contrast, the Tau should be nothing short of assuming the unit's gone when it gets charged, but instead they get better, cheaper combat troops than Tyranids and potentially Orks as well as some of the best shooting going around. I would say they get the best, but I don't know if Mr Extra Shot is area effect like the Dakka banner for Dark Angels so I'm not sure.

[InsaneTD]

Kroot got worse in combat unless you know something I don't. And they are still only I3.  Just about every combat unit in the game is faster.

[Scout Sergeant Mkoll]

Kroot got worse in combat unless you know something I don't. And they are still only I3.  Just about every combat unit in the game is faster.

Kroot Hounds I said. They are, according to the leak, WS4, I5 and have Acute Senses for more accurate Outflank (if desired). That's better WS and I than Hormagaunts, for less points. Plus the Infiltrate, Acute Senses, Stealth in Woods and maybe more, almost certainly including unit type Beast. It's absolutely ridiculous even without the bits I'm not definite on, and frankly, it's inexcusable. If that's an example of "balanced" then someone gave Vetock an opposites dictionary or something.

EDIT: Hounds may not be WS4, may have misread that, not sure. Still absurd though.

[InsaneTD]

Hounds and kroot have always been ws4 and hounds have always been i5. They'll be infantry, just like the unit they have to be with, kroot. So they have an armour save and will be good at outflanking. It's what they do in the fluff. They also don't have asualt grenades and the hounds will be better as screens and wounds for the kroot in the unit. Kroot haven't been great in cc since the changes to frag grenades.

[The Man They Call Jayne]

" I want the Tyranid codex to work as it should"

Good. And now the Tau codex is working how it should. Devestrating accurate firepower and the ability to support other units to protect them. It's all in the fluff how it should work. The Kau'yon, the Mont'ka, all there. Kroot Hounds are something I have never once seen in a players list in my area, even though they are the best CC unit we have, they will still die horribly to anything you throw at them. And you can't just take them, you have to take kroot aswell, so if you don't like kroot, no hounds for you.

The Cataclysm (I refuse to use a less cool name) is 180 i think? Before any upgrades and stuff. Thats a heavy burst cannon and a 5++ invun. Yes its T6 and has 5 Wounds, where is the problem there? If a Crisis suit is T4 and a Hazrd is T5 how could this be less than T6, and the Shas'O has/had 4 wounds. So how is this undercosted?

And The Cadre Fireblade only affects the guys in his squad, assuming they do not move that turn.

[Scout Sergeant Mkoll]

Hounds and kroot have always been ws4 and hounds have always been i5. They'll be infantry, just like the unit they have to be with, kroot. So they have an armour save and will be good at outflanking. It's what they do in the fluff. They also don't have asualt grenades and the hounds will be better as screens and wounds for the kroot in the unit. Kroot haven't been great in cc since the changes to frag grenades.

Right, so because they've always been WS4 I5 it's entirely justifiable for them to be both better and cheaper than a unit bio-engineered for combat at the most basic level, using the best DNA in the galaxy? Sorry but no. Like I said, one or the other I could live with, both, plus them having more special rules is retarded.

As for the no grenades argument, Tyranids don't get those either and while Orks can, why would they bother with I2?

Good. And now the Tau codex is working how it should. Devestrating accurate firepower and the ability to support other units to protect them. It's all in the fluff how it should work. The Kau'yon, the Mont'ka, all there. Kroot Hounds are something I have never once seen in a players list in my area, even though they are the best CC unit we have, they will still die horribly to anything you throw at them. And you can't just take them, you have to take kroot aswell, so if you don't like kroot, no hounds for you.

The Cataclysm (I refuse to use a less cool name) is 180 i think? Before any upgrades and stuff. Thats a heavy burst cannon and a 5++ invun. Yes its T6 and has 5 Wounds, where is the problem there? If a Crisis suit is T4 and a Hazrd is T5 how could this be less than T6, and the Shas'O has/had 4 wounds. So how is this undercosted?

And The Cadre Fireblade only affects the guys in his squad, assuming they do not move that turn.

Except it's not. The Tau codex should not be a pile of whatever fanwank they feel like cobbling together to make sure nothing ever reaches combat, coupled with the possibly the best basic combat troop around. Devastating shooting, fine. Being able to Overwatch with everything within 6" of the charged unit AND get an extra shot through a 60pt character is overdoing it. Oh, and thats's before factoring in that 2 markerlights can ignore all cover now or anything else.

The Riptide is undercosted because of its Toughness, amount of Wounds, the fact that it gets an invulnerable save and it can do quite a lot of damage at range. Anything I can think of to make a comparison doesn't match up on at least 1 of the above, usually 2 but costs almost as much, if not more. Oh, and that's just going from memory because I can't access the leaked codex on this computer at the minute.

Fireblade only affects his unit? Well that's something at least. 3 S5 shots/model at 15" is still excessive given the price though. He is too cheap to do that automatically. I get that he's non-customisable, but even with that the extra shot alone is worth a large chunk of his points, before stats and wargear. Even the reqirement is superfluous. With 30" range you're not exactly likely to need to move, especially if you deploy smartly.

[The Man They Call Jayne]

But you do need to move if you want to take objectives. Unless you get the Warlord Trait that makes your Warlord and his unit scoring.

The Cataclysm statline is likely to be WS3 BS3(4) if the Targetting array is built in, which I doubt. S5 T6 W5 I2/3 A2 Ld8 Sv 2+/5++

That is not astonishing. Heavybolters, Autocannons and the like have the weight of fire, Plasma and Lascannons have the punch. It is also a fire magnet, it is going to draw ALL the fire until it is dead because nobody is going to want it moving around. To unlock the suit full potential you need to Novacharge, and that has a 1 in 3 chance of wounding you. I fully accept that it will be able to lay down a withering field of fire, but it costs, and it has draw backs. It doesn't seem to be a MC, which is fine with me, it shouldn't be.

To even get the IAC is a cost, I doubt you will see one of these on the table that has cost less than 210 points. And I doubt it will last past turn 2 unless you get lucky.

The fireblade is 60 points and you are buying him for that extrashot. He is a character and can and will be singled out and shot in the head. Im not even sure what stuff he has as his own weapons, Pulse Carbine by the sound of it.

Supporting fire is something that is fully backed by the fluff, they havn't pulled it out of their arse just because. This codex seems to take the idea of a coopoerative army and make it work, far better than the last one did. There will be lynchpin units that make all of this work.

Consider the downsides of some of this stuff, you HAVE to keep units within 6" of each other to make it work, fine, but now if the enemy starts throwing blast templates around you can lose 2 units instead of one. If you use supporting fire, you have just lost your ability to overwatch when YOU get charged.

There is give and take everywhere here, it isn't just "TAU IS THE GREETEST, LULZ NOOBZ!" for the hell of it.

[Scout Sergeant Mkoll]

But you do need to move if you want to take objectives. Unless you get the Warlord Trait that makes your Warlord and his unit scoring.

The Cataclysm statline is likely to be WS3 BS3(4) if the Targetting array is built in, which I doubt. S5 T6 W5 I2/3 A2 Ld8 Sv 2+/5++

That is not astonishing. Heavybolters, Autocannons and the like have the weight of fire, Plasma and Lascannons have the punch. It is also a fire magnet, it is going to draw ALL the fire until it is dead because nobody is going to want it moving around. To unlock the suit full potential you need to Novacharge, and that has a 1 in 3 chance of wounding you. I fully accept that it will be able to lay down a withering field of fire, but it costs, and it has draw backs. It doesn't seem to be a MC, which is fine with me, it shouldn't be.

To even get the IAC is a cost, I doubt you will see one of these on the table that has cost less than 210 points. And I doubt it will last past turn 2 unless you get lucky.

The fireblade is 60 points and you are buying him for that extrashot. He is a character and can and will be singled out and shot in the head. Im not even sure what stuff he has as his own weapons, Pulse Carbine by the sound of it.

Supporting fire is something that is fully backed by the fluff, they havn't pulled it out of their arse just because. This codex seems to take the idea of a coopoerative army and make it work, far better than the last one did. There will be lynchpin units that make all of this work.

Consider the downsides of some of this stuff, you HAVE to keep units within 6" of each other to make it work, fine, but now if the enemy starts throwing blast templates around you can lose 2 units instead of one. If you use supporting fire, you have just lost your ability to overwatch when YOU get charged.

There is give and take everywhere here, it isn't just "TAU IS THE GREETEST, LULZ NOOBZ!" for the hell of it.

Or you can just stay still, obliterate everything that's a close threat and then move.

A 2+/5++ already makes it better than any comparable unit I can think of outside, maybe, vehicles. Even with vehicles they don't get a 2+ save vs krak missiles etc. Add in that it's cheaper than some of the comparable units (basic) and it starts getting a touch ridiculous. It may be a fire magnet, but the toughness, wounds and save mean that it's bloody survivable, unless your oppoenent pours most of him army into taking down a single unit.

He's an Independent Character, he's really not that easy to pick out.

I'm not saying it's not backed by fluff, I'm saying it's overpowered. You might not be able to Overwatch to save yourself, but there's no guarantee you'll be charged in the same turn anyway. You may have to be within 6", but if it's anything like similar rules you only need 1 model from the unit to be within range to gain that advantage anyway so there's not that much risk.

There's give and take? Hardly. There's potential risks, but that's the game. There's no real downsides to this codex from what I can see, and there should be. They're cheap enough to have numbers, very good at shooting, they have absurdly cheap, effective combat options in kroot and hteir hounds, and plenty of AA. Please, point me to the weak spot?

[InsaneTD]

Fireblades (white dwarf suggest multiples can be had), has a bonding knife and pulse rifle. The WD also suggests heavier armour.

I'm curious about darkstrider. I want to know what his "structual analyser" does. I'm assuming it has something to do with cover.

[The Man They Call Jayne]

Cheap enough to have numbers? 3 Crisis Suits to a slot, and they are elites, so the Cataclysm is going to take up at least one of those slots, leaving you with 6 (with or without attendant drones) thats 7 models. 3 Broadsides most likely for the AA support and 2 tanks. Thats 12. Fast Attack, not really sure when those will be, probably a flyer or two. Call it 14 and then maybe 3 units of 12 firewarriors, or 6 units of 6. It is hardly horde army numbers. It sits between Horde and Elite comfortably. You have a few units of highly mobile firepower and they are backed up by the heavy guns and the troops basiclly cover them.

A few Heavy Bolter type weapons, or anything with AP4 will eat through your troops and your suits will die to rocket sniping as they always have, especially if 5++ is the standard invun now rather than 4.

Yes, you will have a harder time getting into CC, but you don't need much to get there to do huge damage. Now without seeing all the units and options and stuff, I can't say that there is no cheese in there, but all I have seen so far are some very effective units that stick to the fluff of the army. I havn't seen anything like the Dakka Banner which gives you a stupid number of shots, I don't see the option to spam 2+ saves and 3++ invuns. This is far from an invincible fighting force, it is just going to need to be looked at in order to find where it suffers outside of the obvious CC shortcomings.

"Fireblades (white dwarf suggest multiples can be had), has a bonding knife and pulse rifle. The WD also suggests heavier armour.

I'm curious about darkstrider. I want to know what his "structual analyser" does. I'm assuming it has something to do with cover."

I was under the Impression that he had 4+ armour like the rest? I suppose he is a Tech Priest like character, a role rather than a character, so taking a few would be do able. The Analyser is for finding weak points in vehicle armour I think. Not sure what it would actually do, or who gets to benefit from it though.

[InsaneTD]

Probably is just a 4+. Well WD says he is basically a pathfinder SC. He's a pulsecarbine and a markerlight.  Guess the markerlight lets him give the benefit  a different unit.

I do wish photons hadn't become standard.

[The Man They Call Jayne]

Why? Imperial armies get grenades for free, seems to be the common thing. I would have been happy with them staying at 10 points though. Makes the maths easier when writing a list. I like 10s.

[Scout Sergeant Mkoll]

Cheap enough to have numbers? 3 Crisis Suits to a slot, and they are elites, so the Cataclysm is going to take up at least one of those slots, leaving you with 6 (with or without attendant drones) thats 7 models. 3 Broadsides most likely for the AA support and 2 tanks. Thats 12. Fast Attack, not really sure when those will be, probably a flyer or two. Call it 14 and then maybe 3 units of 12 firewarriors, or 6 units of 6. It is hardly horde army numbers. It sits between Horde and Elite comfortably. You have a few units of highly mobile firepower and they are backed up by the heavy guns and the troops basiclly cover them.

A few Heavy Bolter type weapons, or anything with AP4 will eat through your troops and your suits will die to rocket sniping as they always have, especially if 5++ is the standard invun now rather than 4.

Yes, you will have a harder time getting into CC, but you don't need much to get there to do huge damage. Now without seeing all the units and options and stuff, I can't say that there is no cheese in there, but all I have seen so far are some very effective units that stick to the fluff of the army. I havn't seen anything like the Dakka Banner which gives you a stupid number of shots, I don't see the option to spam 2+ saves and 3++ invuns. This is far from an invincible fighting force, it is just going to need to be looked at in order to find where it suffers outside of the obvious CC shortcomings.

"Fireblades (white dwarf suggest multiples can be had), has a bonding knife and pulse rifle. The WD also suggests heavier armour.

I'm curious about darkstrider. I want to know what his "structual analyser" does. I'm assuming it has something to do with cover."

I was under the Impression that he had 4+ armour like the rest? I suppose he is a Tech Priest like character, a role rather than a character, so taking a few would be do able. The Analyser is for finding weak points in vehicle armour I think. Not sure what it would actually do, or who gets to benefit from it though.

I never said it was Horde, I said it would have numbers, which it can quite comfortable. 40 Firewarriors costs very little, Kroot as I've mentioned, are very cheap, the hounds just obscene. You might not have a horde, but you're not likely to be outnumbered 2:1 or worse very often and have the firepower to stop most things and mow down hordes.

AP4 hurts, but it hurts most armies. Tau get an above average save, that's always been the case. The Tau aren't exactly going to be doing an Orks/Dark Eldar desperately trying to advance from cover to cover, they can quite happily sit in the first cover they find.

Won't need to get much into cc? Again, Tau have decent armour. They can't do much to hurt their opponents in combat, but they can hold out a whlie unless there's power weapons.

No cheese? I'm still waiting for an adequate explanation for kroot hounds being both better and cheaper than similar units as well as other issues I've raised. You can be overpowered without having a glut of 2+/3++ saves everywhere you know.

[The Man They Call Jayne]

Kroot hounds, from what I can see, are the same as they were only a bit cheaper. No armour or anything, and the first to die if the unit is shot at. Not everything is measured against the codexes that other people play which are from a previous edition, and which was pretty much renounced as being the most nerfed codex out there, so rather than saying "This is too good", maybe consider "Mine isn't as good as it should be".

I will be the first person to say that even a single tyranid in the enemies lines should be able to go at least 3 on 1 (5 on 1 in the case of Firewarriors) and come out on top. But for some reason GW gave them much better shooting abilities, which I personally feel was the wrong past to take, but thats what they did.

This dex can only be measured against the 6th ed codexes because that is the standard that applies now.

Oh and you wanted a downside, Railguns. We can only get 3 now, a very big loss in firepower.