Are Chaos players spoiled for choice?

[Narric]

BT, isn't it a good thing that the codex isn't OP?

Now players will actually challenged. They'll need to develope their own tactics. No longer just cookie-cutter their way around.

Are you seriously wanting pratically every new player and their dad, jumping onto the Chaos band-wagon, until the next new 40k Codex? I can safely assume you don't. Now, we'll see more people who actaully enjoy the army, for the army itself, not just for wanting to beat their opponent on turn 2.

Going hand in hand with the current decline of Grey Knight players (and posibly power-gamers in general), this could lead to games becoming fun again, both for new and old players.

Still think the Chaos Codex should be OP and/or anti-Grey Knight?

[BigToof]

Perhaps I misspoke/typed.

I don't want an OP Codex.

I would like a Codex that better let you melt the hearts out of Marines though.

The problem with making "bad guy" Codicies that are loyal to the fluff is that most of the time, the Imperium wins.

But if you read the Chaos fluff, where Chaos does and definitively win, they do so by a landslide.

And that's what I was hoping you could bring out.

And you... kind of can.  You can make a choppy lord that will brutalize GKs.
You can make a lot of options that are fun and exciting.

But, it's not as... specialized as I was personally hoping.

I was hoping to see units that had clear modes for destroying power armor, and well...

They kind of do, but not too well.

So, yes, I am glad they are not OP.  Do I wish they could murder GKs and the like THAT much more...  Well... yes

I would trade the Helldrake for it

Best,
-BT

[LinnScarlett]

@Linn, what do you mean about the Thousand Sons?

Don't you mean Isi, I know I am blond and a girl and all that like Isi's avatar, but I think you got us mixed there!

I don't want an OP Codex.

I would like a Codex that better let you melt the hearts out of Marines though.

The problem with making "bad guy" Codicies that are loyal to the fluff is that most of the time, the Imperium wins.

Hm. Mind me, but I think it would be 'stupid' if they let fluff matter in THAT regard. I mean, the codexi are rule books for a game, everybody should have equal chances no matter that the Imperium manages to beat the snot out of Abaddon every odd quarter century. I agree with BT there, it's silly if something is OP but sometimes stuff does work out that way without any deliberate intention (we so hope), and they (GWS) just like any other game-platform needs time to bring out the proverbial patch (and make sure they don't shoot the OP in the knees too hard while at it).

On the flip-side, cookiecutter army builds are lame. If there is only one viable way to built army X, then why bother having the other sections anyway? I am really pleased hearing that the CSM codix is more about 'what you like/want to do' than about 'if you don't take X you will suck beyond recognition'. Creativity and fun for the win, and all that!

I need to get my hands on that thing for a more indepth browse. I am quite curious about the HQ new set of rules. I've always been incriminatingly fond of Abaddon... Would be nice to be able to properly employ the guy without getting stickled Failbaddon. 

[The Man They Call Jayne]

Yeah, I read your reply and then his and then thought you said it. My bad. *hangs head*

[LinnScarlett]

Yeah, I read your reply and then his and then thought you said it. My bad. *hangs head*

Revenge of the Avatar, I suppose. Hehe. I am quite looking forward to digging into the CSM codex, I've been sitting on some Black Legion and Alpha Legion for ages now, gathering up the courage to make the jump... *eyes the cliff edge*

[The Man They Call Jayne]

I think Undivided is definatly the way to go with this edition. It give you so many complimentary boosts. I had Nurgle Terminators in CC last night and they were just taking the hits like pros. 4 rounds that combat lasted. Against other terminators.

[LinnScarlett]

Mhm, Undecided in my case - but yea, its going to be difficult to resist temptation and stick to a single flavour for sure. Sounds like your Nurdudes did well then!

[Arguleon-veq]

Actually Chaos Space Marines are probably the best army for dealing with power armour. Baleflamers and the Burning Brand just brutalise MEQ's.

[DEF Knight]

I havent had as much time as I'd like to go through it (that is with a fine toothed comb), but a lot of it I rather like. My one issue is I haven't yet found a lot of satisfactory fluffy compliments to hordes of cultists for a Lost and Damned/Cultist army to really round out some of their weaknesses. Though, that's not really counting the option for allies

[The Man They Call Jayne]

I think most people run Cultists with Dark Apostles.

I am very tempted to run a twin Smith Deamon Engine based list. The Warpsmith has definatly become a stand out unit for me.

Mark of Nurgle, Aura of Dark Glory and Burning Brand. Maybe some extra small bits if I have some points left over.

[Brassclaw]

I started my Worldeaters back in codex 3.0, so my marines have seen 4 dexs over the years. This one has by far the most unique in the different units we can pick out. Heldrakes, Forgefiends, Maulerfiends, Cultists and warp talons.

If I were to rank the 4 codexs, I would rank this one probably 2nd or 3rd. Mostly because my memories of codex 3.0 are bit hazy i remember it being a fun dex. It has given us a lot of choice, but lacks the Legion rules that i loved with 3.5. But i also realized that 3.5 codex was broken, as much as the GK dex is broken now.

Maybe someday we will get our legion rules, but i'm happy with the tools we got   

[The Man They Call Jayne]

I think I like that I can build my legion up in a fluffy way without a preset restraint though. I wouldnt mind a few little things I guess, but Marks and Icons allow for that do they not?

[Brassclaw]

A lot of people (not me tho) are bent out of shape over the fact that Berzerkers have a higher WS then they're counter parts (Terminators, Chosen, Raptors), and they're not fearless. Icon can fix the furious charge question. Or how plague marines can get feel no pain but they're lords can't. Its just the little things that seem get under people skin. 

[The Man They Call Jayne]

Bezerkers having a higher WS makes sense though, seeing as it is pretty much all they do. I would even be happy with a trade off to make them BS3.

[Chicop76]

I have totally lost the ability to stay loyal to Tzeentch. I have Ahriman, and I love my Thousand Sons, but a Nurgle Warpsmith and Obliterators, Slaaneshi Raptors and basic CSMs are all going to be common sights in my army unless I have to be loyal for whatever reason.

Warp Talons, I am very torn on. If you can make them work, and give them a Mark of Slaanesh, they are going to walk through any non TEQ unit with impunity. And they can meet the Eldar on their on terms speed wise. It's just making them survive long enough to get there because they cannot assault after deep striking. If they could I would happily pay an extra 30 points for the 5 man unit.

Bikers, I wouldn't say are overpowered, but undercosted. Heldrakes, I havnt used but I have heard they can be nasty, but then so can all fliers.

HQ is currently drawing all my attention. I have Ahriman, Warpsmith and a Deamon Prince from last edition when they were good, I want Lucius, Abbadon, Typhus and Kharne aswell though.

Cheap bikes that can be tougness 6 with a +5 or +4 cover save when they move is not overpowered at all.