News:

Cammerz brings us some fantastically painted and customised Alpha Legion. Check out their work with detail shots and design insight.

Main Menu

New Daemons

Started by Arguleon-veq, February 25, 2013, 03:06:14 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Chicop76

#15
Quote from: Arguleon-veq on March 08, 2013, 11:38:07 AM
Rancid Visitation and the Doomstone don't work like that. Visitation is 1 toughness test on the unit, not on every single model in the unit and the doomstone effects enemy characters locked in combat with the character with the doomstone at the start of each fight subphase.

Pg. 69
" ...each target unit must pass a toughness test..."

It says the unit must pass the test.
Pg. 69

"Rancid Visitations is a nova power.....must past a toughness test or suffer a wound...
If a model is slain, it's unit must pass another toughness test, or suffer an additional wound.....Repeat the process unitl a toughness test is passed or the unit is destroyed."

With Doomstone it has to be all that is in combat with the model. My bad. Still battle squad the unit you want dead and assault it which will kill the unit. So if wraiths are nearby lower them to I1 if they assault the doomstone unit they will die. If you assault them they die.


Chicop76

Since this is going to be rather long and I forgot to do it earlier and can't fit it due to the 20000 character limit I will Icons and Instruments, banners and standards.

Icon of Chaos:

Well it is almost 1/3 cheaper than last edition which already makes it better. It has 3 effects.
1. Same god models don't scatter
2. Differant god models scatter 1/2 the distnce than normal
3. If not a daemon than no effect

This means for example if allied with Chaos Marines units like oblits can use the icon and only scatter 1/2 if they do scatter. However it will be FAQed if a Khorne marked oblit would be the same as a Khorne Deamon. I would say no cause Khorne Daemon and a Deamon with th mark of Khorne is not the same thing.

Another thing to point out is that you can use the icon turn one from a dsing model.

Also like I said before adding a herald and now adding an icon will help with instability. If you lost combat the icon will minus the lost by one. Also the herald will increase your chances of passing instability.

Banner of Blood: once per game you have a better chance at assaulting. If you have rage ging on or Skarband it's a good ideal to get a few of these.

Blasting Standard: not really great, but it helps add additional shooting attacks. Personaly I think it's a good overwatch option since the attacks auto hit.

Plague Banner: +2 poison once a game. Worth taking

Rapturous Standard: lowers ws. Daemonettes now are ws 5 instead of 4. With this standard if which is average a marine wants to hit them back it will be on 5s instead of 4s. This is a must have and probably th best out of the 4.

Instrument of Chaos:

I hope I am getting this right if not I know someone will correct me.

If the instrument wielder arrive from deepstrike you can choose another unit

1. It applies to any daemon
2. Deep striking reserve
3. Hasn't rolled for reserve

If all applies that chosen model come in.

The possiblities is rather vast. For example if all your guys are in reserve with instruments than all it takes is one succesful roll to get all of them that has not rolled on to the table. This is where the lesser reward of +1 reserves can be really helpful.

In addition to getting units in they also help cut down on the negative effects of the warp storm table.

With instruments in play all you have to worry about is getting 3 bad and 3 good instead of 7 bad 3 good. If you have Fateweaver or lucky enough to get lord of unreality you can re roll the 1-3 bad. Not saying you have to get weaver. Just saying he's helpful against warpstorm.

This is why I would say you can play daemons as a mixed force and not really worry about warpstorm.

Hmmmmmm re read it. It just cuts down on the damage the squad takes. Still it is helful. After re reading the warp storm table that also hurts your opponent as well. Heck going mix is looking to be a much better option now. Going mixed means you take less damage from warp storm while yur opponent will take more damage. Instruments help cut down on said damage.

Example:

You have 4 of each type of unit, while you opponent has 12 units. You roll a 9 and get Khornes wraith.

You than roll d6 for your 4 units. On average you don't have to worry. However the opponent on average should roll two 6s with 12 units. You place a small blast where you like it than scatters doing strength 8 ap 3 where it lands with barrage. Out of argument sake we say two blast hit 6 marines killing 5.

If your unit takes damage you can re roll the resault of the 6 that is need to hit. Which means that on average you should take an instrument for every 6 units per god. Like a mono god list with 12 units should take 2 instruments for example.


Arguleon-veq

Doomstone only works on characters, not the whole unit.

Rancid Visitation: ' must pass a toughness test or suffer A wound...' The unit takes the test but its only 1 wound. '...must pass another toughness test or suffer AN additional wound...'. Repeat etc. Its just one wound at a time. Its not; suffers additional wounds, its suffers an additional wound.

If it was the way you think it is it would be the most powerful thing by far in the game.
X-Wing Tournaments;
1st - 38
11th - 33

Chicop76

Quote from: Arguleon-veq on March 08, 2013, 02:48:22 PM
Doomstone only works on characters, not the whole unit.

Rancid Visitation: ' must pass a toughness test or suffer A wound...' The unit takes the test but its only 1 wound. '...must pass another toughness test or suffer AN additional wound...'. Repeat etc. Its just one wound at a time. Its not; suffers additional wounds, its suffers an additional wound.

If it was the way you think it is it would be the most powerful thing by far in the game.

I agree with Doomstone. Should get some sleep lol.

I have to re look at Rancid again. The unit as a whole rolls one toughness test and takes a wound. I had to look at the characteristic test again. Weapons like the grey knight libby, calaidus, and cryptek threw me off since I am use to rolling individually instead as a whole. It's ok and not as destructive as I first thought.




BigToof

Has anyone tried running the portal?
It seems powerful but pricey for an AR12, 1HP object.
Seems that you could get one, maybe two units before it gets popped...

Best,
-BT
BigToof Points:

Cammerz: 8
Waaaghpower: 1
The Man They Call Jayne: 3
Mabbz: 6
Archon Sharrek: 3

Chicop76

Quote from: BigToof on March 10, 2013, 06:08:02 AM
Has anyone tried running the portal?
It seems powerful but pricey for an AR12, 1HP object.
Seems that you could get one, maybe two units before it gets popped...

Best,
-BT

I thought about it but here is why I wouldn't even though it is cheaper than a drop pod.
1. Can get destroyed if it land in DT.
2. Not hard to kill
3. Easy VP or first blood.
4. D6 squads is tooo easy to kill. I would say nurgle may be worth it or tzeentch. The other two is way too fragile and easily dealt with which goes back to giving VPs away.
5. Limited to one .

I think for fun it would be cool, but I wouldn't use it in a serious game. That said it does help generate more models. If you can combine into squads it would be good.


Arguleon-veq

I used new Daemons today for the first time [had to proxy it] it was 1500 so I took 3x20 Hounds, 3x10 Plague Bearers, 1 Tzeentch Defiler and 1 Herald of Nurgle. It was against wolfwing with 4x5 Wolf Guard Termie, Lone Wolf, Logan and Rune Priest.
It was 1 objective each and playing long ways so it was always going to be an ask for anything besides a draw, the flesh hounds were great on the charge but didnt take the counter charge so well thaks to all the fists/hammers especially with Logan getting so many and being able to give nearby wolves +1 attack for a turn. We finished with him having 1 termie left and logan on 1 wound and the priest on 1 wound, I had the soul grinder, 10 bearers with the herald and 12 hounds, i was contestingn his, he was contesting mine and I had first blood but he had linebreaker.

The warpstorm helped me more than it hindered him, it killed 3 termies, I lost nothing and it was close to turning his rune priest into a herald.
X-Wing Tournaments;
1st - 38
11th - 33

Chicop76

Quote from: BigToof on March 10, 2013, 06:08:02 AM
Has anyone tried running the portal?
It seems powerful but pricey for an AR12, 1HP object.
Seems that you could get one, maybe two units before it gets popped...

Best,
-BT

I seen the portal used twice in 2 games and it worked rather well. He played nrgle/ Tzeentch. You couldn't get to the portal due to all the nurgle stuff blocking you to the portal. His Zeentch stuff woul wipe units due to a lot of focus fire. Also he spawned more Tzeentch out of the portal in both games.

The portal whilst dropped on an objective early game allows you to advance while the portal forces hold the objective they are on, so for it last all game long and did rather good.

I also wanted to point out Warp Storm seems to hurt the opponent more than it hurts you.


Chicop76

#23
Well I played a few games and found out a few things.

I played Deathwing Dark Angels, 50 guard squad guard, Ultra Marines, Nurgle Tzeentch Daemons, and Space Wolves which I won all my games, but the Daemon one. The Damon game is not really a lost since it was the 2 turn and my opponent played twice to my one turn.

I notice the army is much differant than before. I fnd my self not deep striking as much aws I thought I would. Any way I will briefly go over units played.

Bloodthirster: Can I get OP here, so far he has destroyed everything that stands in front of him and hasn't when down. Today he killed 15 terminators by him self with no wunds left at game end. The biggest this is the Exaulted and Greater options that I give him.

1. If the exaulted option is bad I can fall back to The Eternal Blade. The only real bonus is you get d3 attacks and you now for sure have I 10. By being a specialist weapon with you having axe of khorne as well gives you another attack. Which means you have 2-4 attacks extra with your 6 base. Can you say 11-12 attacks possible on a charge. I throw 12 out there if you are able t get rag. Any way today I was able to get souleater which gave me an extra wound if I wound a model at the end of commbat. This ability allowed me to recover my wounds lost in battle.

2. With the greater rewards I always seem to get the +4 feel no pain which really helped today when I rolled really bad. I also got warp breath before which was really helpful with a bs 10. If I get something bad I can go with a greater ether blade which having two special weapons give you another attack. Like the Eternal Blade you have +1 strength which really helps if you are going against toughness 5 models and even 6.

3. Today I used True Names on other units besides the one the bearer is in. This is a super good power which only failed me once so far. My thirster had a +3 invulnerable save with +4 feel no pain. Can you say almost un stopable

The bloodthister alone is very powerful, but thanks to rewards he can be very overbearing. Just imagine a Bloodthirster re rolling on a+3 invulnerable save or having a +2 invulnerable.

The next models I want to cover is the horrors and the Zeentc herald. I thought the fnp give a way may be a problem, but it really is not. My horror and 2 heralds was able to blow away belial and 5 elite terminators at toughness 5. I was able to pour 11d6 strength 6 shots that are able to re roll to hit. Needless to say with roughly 40 wounds it is hrd for anything to pass it's saves. This same torrent attack has wiped out anything they shot at within 2 turns. The feel no parin is anoying, but unless they already have it the fnp is not really an issue.

Heral of Slaanesh: I would want to say the best model for your hearlds by far. Thank to a loci my whole unit get to re roll to hit. Also I get to challenge who ever and they can't get out of it. Was very effective killing a guard squad due to singling out the comissar which caused the unit to flee and die.

I put my herald on a steed and give it two specialist weapons which adds +2attacks which mean 6 attacks on the charge and 7 on the charge. With a greater ether blade I have strength 5 attacks and like in the case today I was able to get re rolls in the challenge due to having 20 daemonettes. Another boon is that you can narl take out what you can challenge. With true nmes giving out +3 invul says.

My daemonettes has worked with my slaaanesh herald really well with 7 ttacks on the charge. I have been giving the a 3+ in ulnerable which really helps with over watch. The only units that seem to give them problems is plague drones and beast of nurgle. The high tougness, invulnerable saves makes it realy hard to hurt a unit like that. Not to mention the anoying defensive grenades which negates my 21 attacks. I'm debating on using juggernaugtsor go back to using a prince and a bloodthirster.

The prince is not bad, but in my opinion not worth the points you dish out to make him uberr.


The grinder has worked really well. If need be I can give him 3+ invulnerable save love and have him smash a few units here and there. The Skullcanon is ok so far. In all my games so far it has been a big fat target which my opponent loves to take out. To be fair I only used it in two games where in one it was shooting at beast of nurgle and plague drones and in the other it was shooting at terminators. The frag grenade issue was a non issue since everyone has been aggressive against me instead the other way around. I think it's due to me sending one squad to fight the other army while the rest of my army sits back.

The more I play it's almost better not to deep strike. It's a good ideal still to deep strike the thirster, but overall I starting to see unless you are nurgle it's almost not worth it.

Oh I almost forgot I have used bloodleters. The problem is thy have been used to hold objectives so far. No one goes by them due to being scared of them. They mainly get shot to death while holding an objective. Although in one game I used the to help with one unit with invisibility andthe Thirsters had a +3 invulnerable which was rather nice. In 3 games my Thirsters have never seen combat. My faster nets and horrors destroy everything before they get there.



The more I play with them I can feel they are the stronger out of the other two armies out there. They are stronger than dark angels in my opinion. I belive they are stronger than the space marine codex as well. For starters you prince is better than theirs. The reason being is your princes can just get biomancy as long as they are not khorne, also they have acess to rewards which tips the balance in your favor. The only thing the space marines really have is the helldrake, but you have the god thirster and soulgrinder which makes that problem a non problem.

I am thinking of running a marine allaince with my daemons. The true names works on any daemon, so if I was allied with Eldar my avatar can have a +3 invulnerable save. That means I can do so to possessed, oblits, the close combat oblits, etc. It makes some chaos marine units much better that they normally are.

Also the wrp storm table afer rolling mostly negative on it brely effects me. The only major issues was when I rolled snake eyes. The good part is with leadership 8-9 I only failed once getting 2 wounds on on of my princes.

Also I can see instability no being a real issue since I have not lost combat most of the time. When I do it's not by much which I now sport icons which helped me. Also the icon helps with running over 50 man guard squads.


I also wanted to point out the rap standard is very nice. With ws 5 vs 4 and 3 it is really helpfull. Against guard blobs if you lower that 3 to a 2 it means that they need 5s to hit you which means less wounds and less models you lose. It has came in very handy. Even with WS 4 models it's handy if you can get the down to two. Facing ws 5 it is big since it will allow you to hit them on 3s now. With WS 6 aka genestealers knocking them down to 5 or lower helps you get hit less. With 7 it still is usuable, but 8 you have to be lucky and 9 and 10 is a waste unless you have a Thirster assaulting with you slaanesh models. I use this as a fall back if let's say I get a bad charge or I have a +6 invulnerable save instead of a +3 invulnerable.

The damonettes is on of your versitile troop options. Also if you run a herld with psychic shriek with them it is very helpful, especally against really tough models. If you use guard allies than you can easily destroy whole squads.