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1850 Point Tournament Recap - Eldar

Started by Arguleon-veq, July 21, 2013, 07:06:08 PM

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Arguleon-veq

I had a 5 game tournament this weekend and took Eldar. Here is the list I used;

Farseer; Bike, Spear
Farseer; Bike, Spear
8 Warlocks; 8 Bikes, 7 Spears
5 Bikes; 1 Cannon
5 Avengers;
5 Avengers;
5 Avengers;
5 Avengers;
Serpent; Holo, Scatter, Shuricannon
Serpent; Holo, Scatter, Shuricannon
Serpent; Holo, Scatter, Shuricannon
Serpent; Holo, Scatter, Shuricannon
Wraithknight; Two Heavy Wraithcannon

Its massivly hit and miss because if I dont get the powers I need for the council or they get shot down turn 1 before I get to power them up I just end up with a massive points sink that will achieve very little.
X-Wing Tournaments;
1st - 38
11th - 33

Arguleon-veq

Game 1;

I was facing a pretty scary Tau list game 1;

Commander; 2+ Save, 2 Fusions, Plasma
3 Suits; 3 Twin Linked Fusion, 3 Plasma
Ethereal;
3 Broadsides; Missiles, 6 Missile Drones, Intercept
Riptide; Ion, Fusion, Skyfire Intercept
Skyray;
6 Sniper Drones; 1 Spotter
20 Kroot; Snipers, Hound
20 Kroot; Snipers, Hound
9 Fire Warriors;
9 Fire Warriors;
9 Fire Warriors;
6 Pathfinders;
6 Pathfinders;


Mission; 1 Objective each.
Night Fight; Off

In this game there was no first blood, instead the player who controlled the most quarters at the end of the game got an extra VP instead, you control a quarter by having a unit in it and no enemy units in it.

Recap:

I got first turn and I got the powers I needed on my council, he castled around a big ruined tower block with everything besides his riptide which was on the other flank, I simply powered up my council with a 2+ re rolled armour and cover save and turbo boosted right next to his castle. I shot down his braodsides [besides 1 drone and the ethereal who had joined them] and few kroot.

His fire all went into killing my council but it hardly made a dent, the council then charged in and chopped up 20 kroot whilst my serpents killed the other kroot squad.

It went on like this next turn with the council wiping out sniper drones whilst my serpents killed his fire warriors. He did try and make a fightback with his commander and suits dropping in and killing a serpent whilst his riptide got another but then I started to whittle down his riptide and my wraithknight killed his commander and suits whilst the council kept clearing his lines.

He conceeded after my turn 3 as I was going to table him before the end of the game anyway.

Thoughts: It was just all about the council getting the right powers and going first, with that they are almost impossible to kill and Tau had nothing to answer them in combat with.

Game 2;

I was up against an eldar/dark eldar alliance;

Farseer; Bike, Shard of Anaris, Warding, Witnessing
Farseer; Bike, Warding, Witnessing, Spear
Wraithknight;
Wraithknight;
3 Eldar Bikes;
3 Eldar Bikes;
3 Eldar Bikes;
3 Eldar Bikes;
6 Swooping Hawks;
Eldar Flyer;
Night Spinner Tank;
5 Dark Eldar Warriors;
Baron;
Beast Unit
; 18 Chimera, 2 Razorwings, 5 Beastmasters

Mission; Relic
Night Fight; Off

In this mission, rather than first blood there was an objective in the centre of each quarter worth 1 VP each.

Recap:

From 8 dice I didnt get a single 4 for the +1 save on my council and neither farseer got fortune, he got fortune for his beast council and went first.

I got slaughtered in this game, he instant killed my wraithknight with one of his when I had 5 wounds left on it. I worked out I should kill about half his chimera beasts in a turn with my wave serpents even with fortune, I killed 2. My council killed a wraithknight and help his beast council up for a little while.

I knew all I could do was try and kill his scoring to stop him getting the relic and this draw primary which would at least net me 10 points for the game out of a possible 30.

I was still in with a shout as in my turn 5 he had 3 bikes with the relic and I had a few dire avengers to shoot them along with a serpent, I needed to kill the front guy who was carrying it and the game to end but my shooting was poor, I didnt kill that one bike and the game went on and he tabled me in turn 6.

Thoughts: The complete opposite to game 1 thanks to not getting my council powers and him getting his, which was confiriming my fear about how hit and miss this list can be.
X-Wing Tournaments;
1st - 38
11th - 33

Arguleon-veq

#2
Game 3;

Tau again in game 3, at least half of the field of 34 had Tau;

Ethereal;
6 Pathfinders;
6 Pathfinders;
6 Pathfinders;
3 Missile Broadsides
; 6 Missile Drones, Intercept
3 Missile Broadsides; 6 Missile Drones, Intercept
Riptide; Fusion, Ion, Intercept Skyfire
Riptide; Fusion, Ion, Intercept Skyfire
10 Kroot; Snipers, Hound
10 Kroot; Snipers, Hound
10 Kroot; Snipers, Hound
Farseer; Bike
3 Bikes;
3 Bikes;
Wraithknight;


Mission; Kill Points[Purge the Alien]
Night Fight; Off
Powers; I didnt get any I needed again!

Recap:

I was going second but sat my council out of range thanks to hammer and anvil, he unloaded on my wraithknight doing a few wounds to him. In reply I blasted down a few infiltrating kroot snipers and but some wounds on both a wraithknight and riptide.

He really shot up my council leaving a few guys and killed my wraithknight, his wraithknight charged the remnants of my council, he was left with 1 wound and i had a biker and one of my farseers left.

I finished off the rest of his kroot.

For the rest of the game it was really a case of me backing off from his broadsides whilst shooting down his other riptide and farseer, my last farseer finally killed the wraithknight thanks to the terrible spell that is death pact, he then went on and killed an enemy bike squad too and I also managed to pick off a pathfinder squad, in the end his inability to take out my serpents cost him as did sacrificing his kroot by infiltrating them right on top of me to put some wounds on my wraithknight with them. In the end I ran out an 11-7 winner.

Thoughts: I was pretty suprised I managed to pull this out with the council once again not having any useful powers and going second against such a shooty list. Luckily the hammer and anvil deployment limited his broadsides power whilst his fragile troops gave me some easy points.

Game 4;  

I was on table 4 at the start of day two, facing off against a psychic scream flying circus;

Kairos;
Prince; Wings, Armour, Greater, Exalted, Tzeentch, Lvl3
Prince; Wings, Armour, Greater, Exalted, Tzeentch, Lvl3
Prince; Wings, Armour, Greater, Exalted, Tzeentch, Lvl3
10 Plague Bearers;
10 Plague Bearers;
Commissar Lord;
Platoon Command;
10 Guard;
10 Guard;
Full Battle Psyker Squad
;

Mission; Big Guns
Night Fight; Off
Powers; All of his monsters had terrify, psychic shriek and the tzeentch primaris. I actually got 2 fortunes and 2 +1 saves!

Recap:

My joy at getting the powers I needed were short lived as despite hammer and anvil, the speed of his flying monsters meant he was in range to use his tzeentch shooting powers on me turn 1 and he won the roll to go first, thanks to this he blasted down all but 1 of my warlocks and both farseers before I ever got to power up the council. To make matters worse my wraithknight died to one psychic shriek thanks to the battle psykers dropping him to LD2. So turn 1 I had lost pretty much everything besides my serpents.

The remnants of my council charged and killed the few daemons who had popped out of the portalglyph and the portal itself whilst all my wave serpents only managed a single wound on the grimoire prince, who didnt get downed, I tried to back away as much as I could.

His second turn seen my council wiped out thanks to their LD getting dropped, then charged by a doomstone prince, their LD of 2 meant my farseers failed both doomstone tests and then they were both dying on a 2+ thanks to that reducing their LD to 0, the prince killed my last warlock with his normal attacks.

I was in a terrible position as two of my serpents couldnt even get out of charge range of his flyers this turn, my bikes did show up though so I backed them into a corner and jumped out my avengers, along with the bikes I boxed my own serpents in so they couldnt be charged in his turn my shooting did kill one of his flyers and badly wounded another.

I only lost an avenger squad in his next turn as I finally got some deny the witch rolls off and I downed another flyer.

He got my other avenger squad and bikes and in my turn I downed his last prince. His turn 5 seen him manage very little.

He had 3 objectives, first blood, warlord and 1 heavy support kill for 12, I dropped avengers on two objectives and had 3 heavy support for 9. My first serpent killed a wounded kairos giving me 10 so I now had to kill one of his scoring units off an objective, I had already weakened one bearer squad a little so I put all my fire into those but thanks to going to ground he was getting a 2+ cover save. I put my fire into them but there were 4 left at the end of the turn but he had nothing left that could get my avengers off my objectives or really threaten my serpents. I should easily blow him off it turn 6.

We rolled for another turn, and got it! but the time for the round expired so we couldnt play it! So I lost 12-10

Thoughts: Super frustrating as I pulled the game back from a terrible position and was on for the win, to make matters worse its only writing it now that I remember that I was letting him have his 2+ cover against my serpent shield, which ignores cover! so he should have only got a 5+ invun. Which would have easily wiped him off that objective and gave me the win.
X-Wing Tournaments;
1st - 38
11th - 33

Arguleon-veq

Game 5;

This game should have been against the Tau guy i played first but as id already played him I ended up against this;

Lvl2 Rune Priest;
Lvl2 Rune Priest;
Wolf Lord
; on a Wolf, loads of gear
3 Wolf Guard; Termie, Hammer, Shield [with lascannon fangs and grey hunters]
10 Grey Hunters; Wulfen, Banner, 2 Melta, Plasma Pistol
10 Grey Hunters; Wulfen, Banner, 2 Plasma, Plasma Pistol
6 Long Fangs; 5 Lascannons
6 Long Fangs; 5 Missile
6 Long Fangs; 5 Missile
Coteaz;
12 Henchmen
; 6 Psykers, 2 Crusaders, 4 Warriors
12 Henchmen; 6 Psykers, 2 Crusaders, 4 Warriors
Dreadknight; Teleport Shunt, Sword, Fist, Heavy Incinerator

Mission; Scouring
Night Fight; On
Powers; I got fortine and 3 +1 saves

Recap:

I went second but night fight kept me safe, I then powered up the council and boosted them at the 4 objective. The council ran the game, killing all of his scoring [thanks to combo charging] by turn 4. I lost a serpent but had all my avengers poised to jump out on two 3 objectives, a 2 and a 1. I shot down his missile fangs with my serpents whilst my wraithknight got a lucky 6 to wound on his dreadknight, instant killing it which was a relief as it shunted right up to me and would kill me in combat.

His fangs finally shot down my wraithknight, I blew away his wolflord and he conceeded at the end of my turn 4 as  I would table  him by getting my council into the rest of his fangs turn 5.

Thoughts: Not a lot a list like that could do against my powered up council really, especially when he was rolling badly to stop my powers with his priests once my council were in range of them.

Overall Finish: 8th - 34

Not a bad finish in the end, what is super annoying is that had I remembered about my shield ignoring cover in game 4 on those plaguebearers it would have tied me in tournament points with first place and I had the bigger VP difference thanks to tabling two opponents which would have got my first place. Although If I would have won that I would have had a different game last game which I may have lost.

Still a good result and it played out how I thought it would, if the council can stay safe turn 1 or go first and I have the powers I need, I dominate the game, without it I have a real struggle although I did pull out 1 game like that and should have had another. The serpents were the real workhorse of the army and did great every game, the wraithknight was actually pretty poor although he did draw fire away from those serpents.
X-Wing Tournaments;
1st - 38
11th - 33

Fhanados

Great recap! Your serpent/psyker spam seems to have served you well. I've heard new Eldar are quite nasty but haven't faced them yet, and your games seem to showcase this. Sucks about that game against Daemons, it sounds like it was a real nailbiter and that extra turn would have done wonders!

Chicop76

That's why I use rail guns on my sides instead of high yield. I did a lot better in tournament play when I made the switch. Too many people like to play stay outside of 36" range.


The Man They Call Jayne

I don't find that the Rails are that good. Too few shots at too low a Strength for what you need. Maybe if you combine the Missile Drones with the Rails you might cover all the bases.


I do wonder how the Bike Council would fair against a Riptide with a Support Commander letting him ignore cover and being twinlinked. S8 AP2 large blast that ignores cover must be utterly devastating to them.
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Secondspheres Crash Card Counter +4



Arguleon-veq

Its not too bad for the council as with good spacing he should only hit 3, causing 2.5 wounds, I then get a 4+ re rolled invun save which means it should only kill 1 every two turns for a massive outlay in points.

Ive been thinking railguns will be great on broadsides for the meta, it gets past those tzeentch princes making them rely on what is really a 4+ invun rather than a 2+ armour [3+ re rolling 1's] it instant kills other broadsides and allows them no saves and is great against riptides and not shoddy against wraithknights and against serpents it can actually trade at range and when you do sneak damage through you have a better chance at a destroyed result.

If you combine them with SMS and Missile Drones your still getting a really nice amount of shots too.

Im leaning towards dropping the council, it can beat almost anything but its too unreliable so I will struggle for high finishes in 5 or 6 game tournies as im always going to get games were I go second or dont get the powers I need. Id probably add more serpents and another wraithknight or two or maybe throw in a riptide and sniper kroot.
X-Wing Tournaments;
1st - 38
11th - 33

Chicop76

For now the way I run my sides is:

Railrifle, 6 missile drones, smart, target

This way I can shoot at 4 different targets. I also add in a support commander

Comander: multi, Command, puretide

This unit now can ignore cover with all it's weapons, re roll wounds on MC's, all weapons re roll to hit, re roll armour pen on vehicles, and all weapons are twin linked.

I thought about droping the twin link, but 12 missiles re rolling hits on 6s ignoring jink saves and re roll on armour pen have done rather well as solid anti air.

The rail guns are very important with dealing with other sides, riptides, wraithknights, and units which like to skim out side of 36". I lost two games against necrons and grey knights who simply out ranged me and than came in for the kill, got to love outflank and deep stirke, and flyers. When I changed my sides to what I have now it made a huge differance. Now I bring down flyers and I can take out barges and annilation barges that sit out of range of my marker lights. Also I was able to pop rifle dreads a lot easier. It also made a huge impact when I faced eldar as well.

The only armies I can see it doesn't really hurt is low vehicle armies. Even than the instant killing effect is helpful, especially against paladins, so far I don't see see too many cases where the high yield actually helps out more, unless you are shooting like swarms.

Another thing I noticed is that I may have to start taking iridium armour due to riptides and other broadsides on my commander. I am also going to add feel no pain as well.

I have used my commander to soak up wounds on my broadsides and it has worked rather well. Before I would lose about all my drones and a broadside. Now I lose a broadside and about 2 drones on average now with my commander left with one wound. However I think the upgrades on my commander will help.

Out of all my games my commander side unit with my ethereal receive a lot of punishment. I tend to try to put them where I can get the best cover save for the unit. Wound allocation really helps keep the unit shooting strong. As a side note even when I lost I never gave up slay the warlord if my warlord is with my broadsides.

Also I find the hammerhead not as useful as I like it to be. At 175 points I find a single strength 10 shot not really worth it, leaning on taking a wraithknight instead and deepstriking fusion suits, or field 3 riptides since the strength 9 ordanace shot is pretty effective. I switched to 6 man sniper drones which have worked rather well. 18 bs 5 shots is pretty awesome thanks to a nearby ethereal.

Skyray with my above broadsides unit has shut down air units really well. If they have like 6 flyers it might be trouble some though. For now on average I face 2-3 flyers which both units blow out the air rather easily. I ran earlywaring and found with out buffs and supportting fire it's not really worth doing. I had other units like riptides with skyfire, but it turned out to be a waster of points since my riptides mostly shoot at terminators, troops, vehicles, or fusioning heavier tanks.

I have retired my Tau for a bit and revamping my list. The last revamp I won all my tournament games, but could had done better. For example I overestimated necrons against Tau and forget they really do not have much ap. I am looking at 550 points to work with and that is mainly from my hammerhead, pathfinders, and a crisis suit team.

I have read and seen how well a Farsight list does, my issue after it fires it's a lot of points in one place. I faced it twice with my Tau and just mopped the floor with it. All I can say is my broadsides and my riptides can wipe the unit in a turn or 2. All I have to do is kill off the drones and the suits go down. Also having 2 early warning riptides helped deter both players from doing the bomb. Also placing my army the way I did was a deterant in it self.


Going back to Eldar I am surprised to see serpent avenger spam do so well against those armies. However you did have a wraithknight which makes a differance and a duck council. With my army I would had fired at your serpents, especially due to most missions. From experance I know I can glance death 3 a turn, and have every one else either shoot at the troops outside the transports or your bike council. Thinking about it more I'll probably would have my rail guns and snipers fire at your wraith knight. Since my railguns wound on 4s and can re roll to wound and ignore cover saves I would bet I can bring him down in a turn or two with my snipers firing as well. Which means my 12 missile shots would head towards a serpent. I fire about 4 marker lights at the serpent I want to kill than my miisile drones will have bs 3 with re rolling to hit for 11 hits which due to re roling armour pens I can manage about 6 glancing hits rather easy that is ignoring cover. Thining about it some more unaided they can glance death a waveserpent with re roll hits and re roll armour pen. My riptides and seeker missiles can down a serpent as well. Yeah I'm pretty confident I can take out 2 serpents, 3-4 wounds on wraithknight, and kill the squads that come out the serpents or wound some of the council. Turn 2 is usually the turn where I do the most damage.

Besides the council and the knight I really don't fear the list. Target priority is an issue, and killing units is easier said than done. The big issue and why I really don't fear it is it lacks high ap. Besides the strength 10 ap 1 possible instant death weapons, hmm probably a good reason to kill the knight first, everything else don't have the ap to really be a threat. The serpents soft rending is not very reliable, invul and cover helps. Even the avengers that poping out of the serpents really are not producing a lot of soft rends.

Don't get me wrong. You can focus down a target a have enough soft rending fire power to kill my riptides off, hince why I get the +3 invulnerable save vs this army type.

However you are a very good player and it really doesn't matter. Also Eldar do really well on ob jective games.

Invisibility is awesome on your bike council, also preventing me from shooting isn't bad either. Misfortune and doom is retarded as a power combo.

What makes that list a pain is that you have to ignore the seer council which isn't really ignorable. If I focus everything I have into it I probably can kill it. Heck my broaside unit can mess it up. High yield missiles in this case would be nice. However they don't score in most cases while everything else can at some point besides the serpents. I probably wil have to take the buffs and debuffs like a man.

What also makes the seer council an issue is the fact Tau have nothing that can really tie them up. I can send a riptide, but seeing that I can kill maybe 1 or 2 models and the fact they can give me a +3 save doesn't make it a great option, unless they don't have that power. I have to expect combat can go like this. They can re roll on 3s, wound on 2s, and give me a 3+ save which if succesful I have to re roll on it. Yeah with 3 attacks hitting on 4s that probably have to get pass a +4 re rollable invulnerable save. Like I said I have nothing to tie them up.


Arguleon-veq

I think that is the one issue for Tau against the Council, they just cant tie it down, I was at another tournament this weekend and my last game was against Tau, it was like my first game from this tournament, got my powers off for a re rolled 2+ armour and re rolled 2+ cover and boost them right into their lines turn 1 then they can charge and kill anything they want turn 2 and no amount of firepower is going to kill more than 2 guys.

So my council sped up killed 2 riptides, 30+ firewarriors an ethereal, 5 sniper scouts and mephiston. It lost 2 warlocks.

Its just a terrible waste of points if it doesnt get the powers it needs.
X-Wing Tournaments;
1st - 38
11th - 33

The Man They Call Jayne

Re-rollable 2+ armour and cover is great until you run into Plasma backed by Markerlights though surely?
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Arguleon-veq

Even then its a case of how many wounds can the plasma put out, the council can easily stay out of 12'' of the plasma so should never get double tapped and the markerlights have got to stay alive and not get blasted away by wave serpents.

Even then you have to get past a 4+ re rolled invun so say you do manage to markerlight them, get with 12'' and lets even say your getting 6 suits in range with 2 twin linked plasma each. You do 4 wounds to the unit. Plus if theres that much plasma the none warlord farseer would be out front taking wounds first so all it really does is kill 2 warlocks then the farseer just gets wounds back with the renewer power. So all those points for 2 dead warlocks, and then you lose 6 double twin linked plasma suits.
X-Wing Tournaments;
1st - 38
11th - 33

The Man They Call Jayne

And how does that stack up against a Riptides AP2 Blast? A Pathfinder team might get 4 Markers on Target, so no cover and a BS5 blast? 2 Riptides are not uncommon are they? So its a worry if you don't get it first.
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Chicop76

Quote from: Arguleon-veq on July 28, 2013, 06:33:33 PM
I think that is the one issue for Tau against the Council, they just cant tie it down, I was at another tournament this weekend and my last game was against Tau, it was like my first game from this tournament, got my powers off for a re rolled 2+ armour and re rolled 2+ cover and boost them right into their lines turn 1 then they can charge and kill anything they want turn 2 and no amount of firepower is going to kill more than 2 guys.

So my council sped up killed 2 riptides, 30+ firewarriors an ethereal, 5 sniper scouts and mephiston. It lost 2 warlocks.

Its just a terrible waste of points if it doesnt get the powers it needs.

Hmmmmm. I guess I will focus everything I have into a bike council now. Not like I have a choice. With the list I am running I am pretty confident I can kill more than 2. I run a lot of ranged ap 1/2 weapons. I figure my snipers can also do some damage as well. If you did that turbo boost move that's 40 sniper shots and I have enough marker lights to ignore cover an up bs to 5 for 34 hits which 5 would probably kill one / two, my 3 sides would kill probably one and if I didn't use the strength 8 pie plate and the melta/ ion. I probably can kill two. Hmm that's only 5 dead so far and not counting the rest on re rolling 2's. Oh my 4 fusion guys can probably kill one for 6. I probably can kill 6 with my ap 2 weapons. With everything else I would have 10 wounds from snipers, actually it's 47 sniper shots. I will have 90 shots with my 30 firewarriors. 45 will hit, I'll round to 48 since I forgot sniper shots. Which means 32 wounds, 40 wounds soo far. 16 from smart missiles for 12 hits for a total of 48 wounds. 6 wounds from the missile sides for 54 which means 9 failed wounds and a re roll means 1 more dead.

Yeah I probably can kill 7 of your guys off, or do 7 wounds to that squad. Makes me think about taking rail rifles again on my pathfinders and taking plasma rifles on my broadsides.if I did that I might can kill 9 instead or inflict 9 wounds. If you don't get the +2 save I can probably wipe them out.

I would probably do better just adding bs to units that can ignore cover already. This is why I want to take eldar allies. Wraith Guard with D-scythes would seriously calm that unit down. If I wound about 26 times I can get rid of 7 warlocks. The rest of my army would be able to take down the unit.

You just sold me on Eldar allies with Wraith Guard D-scythes in a waveserpent with spiritseer and wraithknight.


Arguleon-veq

Riptides are even worse as they should only ever hit 3 guys so even if there are 3 riptides and all hit thats only 9 wounds, so again, 2 dead warlocks. Thats from 3 riptides supported by at least 10 markerlight hits.

Actually Chicop when I was first working out what could deal with the council, overwhelming sniper fire was one of the things that can put a lot of hurt on it just for the rends, sniper drones and 50+ sniper kroot and an ethereal are pretty scary for them once you have some markerlight hits.

Then you add in the fact that those weapons are also great for killing wraithknights.

Although I did face that this tournament and the wave serpents just allow you to reduce the markerlights coming at you or to simply kill a load of the snipers.

As ive said though the council is far too unreliable, going second or notgetting the right powers will usually make the unit one of the biggest wastes of points in the game. Its brutal when it works, but its only going to work in about half your games.
X-Wing Tournaments;
1st - 38
11th - 33