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1850

Started by InsaneTD, May 18, 2013, 03:39:53 AM

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InsaneTD

I've noticed a lot of people are writing 1850 point army lists and I'm curious as to why?

Waaaghpower

Probably to have a high point game where double FOC can't be used. A new meta to help kill spam lists.
Super Mario 3D World is The. Best. Thing.

Chicop76

1. Most in my area are playing 1850 due to tournament play
2. 2k allows for some beardy list. You can take 4 hq options, 4 troop options, 2 different allies

In other words if I take a minimum of 4 troops with sisters, I can have guard and greyknights as allies.

Which brings the question. If you are playing necrons and use chaos and grey knight allies. Would you be able to do so since grey knights and chaos can't ally. Even though neither grey knights or chaos is your primary.


Arguleon-veq

Its been 1850 for quite a while, at least in the UK. I think its mostly to do with tournaments as the vast majority are 1850 with a few at 1750. I think 1850 took off at tournaments because thats the points value the european team championships are using.

At first I hated it, I didnt like the idea of being able to get those extra units in your list, not squeezing as much as you can out of 1500 or even 1750 but now I cant seem to make lists for any less. It helps to somewhat limit some armies too, back with GK razorback spam for example, you would have your dreads and razorbacks full and then have to spend your points on some less optimum units were as other armies would still have plenty of units they wanted to squeze in but couldnt at smaller points values.

One problem at the min is that Necrons can simply take 3 barges and 3 wraith units and then as the points inrease they can just add more and more units of 5 warriors in night scythes.
X-Wing Tournaments;
1st - 38
11th - 33

Irisado

For regular play, 1750-1850 seems to be the standard points size these days.  It just seems to fit in with the preferences which many seem to have regarding their army lists, regardless of what tournaments are doing.
Soñando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Arguleon-veq

Im not sure, before there was a big independant tournament scene in the UK it was just GW's GT[at the time] and Conflicts, they were 1500pts and 1000 points. 95% of the games I used to play/see back then were at those values even amongst players who didnt play tournaments. Now there is an indy scene that play at 1750/1850 thats what I see, again even in circles that never play tournaments.

I think its to do with the fact that people are pretty easy about what points value they play, Im happy to play pretty much any value because I dont go to many tournaments but people preparing for a tournament obviously want to play at the points value the tournament is using. As most people dont mind, they are happy to do that against a tourny gamer and I think that just filters down. So even if you just have 1 tourny player in a gaming group of 10+ people they are probably going to play 1750/1850 because that one player wants to play at that value and everyone else is happy to play any value.

My favourite points value though is 600 with some minor comp, nice 1 hour games, easy to pack away and a lot of fun when a lone guy can change a game but you still have enough models to need a good game plan etc.
X-Wing Tournaments;
1st - 38
11th - 33

Chicop76

Quote from: Irisado on May 20, 2013, 05:17:38 PM
For regular play, 1750-1850 seems to be the standard points size these days.  It just seems to fit in with the preferences which many seem to have regarding their army lists, regardless of what tournaments are doing.

Nah. Everyone around here used to play 2k. Since 1850 tournaments have been pushed more during 6 everyone plays 1850 here now.


InsaneTD

Quote from: Chicop76 on May 20, 2013, 08:31:18 PM
Quote from: Irisado on May 20, 2013, 05:17:38 PM
For regular play, 1750-1850 seems to be the standard points size these days.  It just seems to fit in with the preferences which many seem to have regarding their army lists, regardless of what tournaments are doing.

Nah. Everyone around here used to play 2k. Since 1850 tournaments have been pushed more during 6 everyone plays 1850 here now.
I wonder if that is something GW are pushing on tournament organisers then. Here at least, you have to have GW "sponsorship" to run a tournament.

Irisado

Quote from: Chicop76 on May 20, 2013, 08:31:18 PM
Nah. Everyone around here used to play 2k. Since 1850 tournaments have been pushed more during 6 everyone plays 1850 here now.

The United States has always tended to favour higher points values, so 2000 under the old system doesn't surprise me at all.
Soñando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Charistoph

My local shop still runs 1750, mostly, with oddball 1000 pointers mixed in (FOC is 3 Elites, teams, etc).

Quote from: Chicop76 on May 18, 2013, 03:53:47 AM
2. 2k allows for some beardy list. You can take 4 hq options, 4 troop options, 2 different allies

In other words if I take a minimum of 4 troops with sisters, I can have guard and greyknights as allies.

No, you can't, unless previously agreed upon before hand.  Just as both Primary Detachments have to be from the same codex, so too, both Allied Detachments.  So you can have Guard OR Grey Knights as Allies, not both.
Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?

Quote from: Megavolt-They called me crazy.  They called me insane!  THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right."

Railgun Convention

Quote from: Charistoph on May 29, 2013, 08:29:34 PM
Quote from: Chicop76 on May 18, 2013, 03:53:47 AM
2. 2k allows for some beardy list. You can take 4 hq options, 4 troop options, 2 different allies

In other words if I take a minimum of 4 troops with sisters, I can have guard and greyknights as allies.

No, you can't, unless previously agreed upon before hand.  Just as both Primary Detachments have to be from the same codex, so too, both Allied Detachments.  So you can have Guard OR Grey Knights as Allies, not both.

I must admit, I spent a while doubting that, but I found the passage that mentions multiple allied detachments. It is mentioned that the second detachment must be the same codex as the first, but it's near the end of the paragraph and in brackets. Not exactly well displayed.
So how many crashes have I survived now?

Charistoph

Quote from: Railgun Convention on May 29, 2013, 08:51:43 PM
Quote from: Charistoph on May 29, 2013, 08:29:34 PM
Quote from: Chicop76 on May 18, 2013, 03:53:47 AM
2. 2k allows for some beardy list. You can take 4 hq options, 4 troop options, 2 different allies

In other words if I take a minimum of 4 troops with sisters, I can have guard and greyknights as allies.

No, you can't, unless previously agreed upon before hand.  Just as both Primary Detachments have to be from the same codex, so too, both Allied Detachments.  So you can have Guard OR Grey Knights as Allies, not both.

I must admit, I spent a while doubting that, but I found the passage that mentions multiple allied detachments. It is mentioned that the second detachment must be the same codex as the first, but it's near the end of the paragraph and in brackets. Not exactly well displayed.

Since it's right after the part that says you can take a second Allied Detachment, it's perfectly well displayed, unless one is in the habit of not finishing paragraphs.
Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?

Quote from: Megavolt-They called me crazy.  They called me insane!  THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right."

Chicop76

Quote from: Charistoph on May 29, 2013, 10:14:17 PM
Quote from: Railgun Convention on May 29, 2013, 08:51:43 PM
Quote from: Charistoph on May 29, 2013, 08:29:34 PM
Quote from: Chicop76 on May 18, 2013, 03:53:47 AM
2. 2k allows for some beardy list. You can take 4 hq options, 4 troop options, 2 different allies

In other words if I take a minimum of 4 troops with sisters, I can have guard and greyknights as allies.

No, you can't, unless previously agreed upon before hand.  Just as both Primary Detachments have to be from the same codex, so too, both Allied Detachments.  So you can have Guard OR Grey Knights as Allies, not both.

I must admit, I spent a while doubting that, but I found the passage that mentions multiple allied detachments. It is mentioned that the second detachment must be the same codex as the first, but it's near the end of the paragraph and in brackets. Not exactly well displayed.

Since it's right after the part that says you can take a second Allied Detachment, it's perfectly well displayed, unless one is in the habit of not finishing paragraphs.

It's on page 110 in bold print. Meaning if you play 2k you are asking for 4 bloodthirsters for example and two possible allies and two fortifications like skyshield and aegis defense line at the bottom.

I am still waiting to see the necron/ grey knight/ chaos space marine alliance. At 2k it's legal, but I wonder if two ally attatchments like chaos marines and greyknights can even ally together even though Necrons is the primary.


Railgun Convention

Quote from: Chicop76 on May 30, 2013, 02:34:35 AM
Quote from: Charistoph on May 29, 2013, 10:14:17 PM
Quote from: Railgun Convention on May 29, 2013, 08:51:43 PM
Quote from: Charistoph on May 29, 2013, 08:29:34 PM
Quote from: Chicop76 on May 18, 2013, 03:53:47 AM
2. 2k allows for some beardy list. You can take 4 hq options, 4 troop options, 2 different allies

In other words if I take a minimum of 4 troops with sisters, I can have guard and greyknights as allies.

No, you can't, unless previously agreed upon before hand.  Just as both Primary Detachments have to be from the same codex, so too, both Allied Detachments.  So you can have Guard OR Grey Knights as Allies, not both.

I must admit, I spent a while doubting that, but I found the passage that mentions multiple allied detachments. It is mentioned that the second detachment must be the same codex as the first, but it's near the end of the paragraph and in brackets. Not exactly well displayed.

Since it's right after the part that says you can take a second Allied Detachment, it's perfectly well displayed, unless one is in the habit of not finishing paragraphs.

It's on page 110 in bold print. Meaning if you play 2k you are asking for 4 bloodthirsters for example and two possible allies and two fortifications like skyshield and aegis defense line at the bottom.

I am still waiting to see the necron/ grey knight/ chaos space marine alliance. At 2k it's legal, but I wonder if two ally attatchments like chaos marines and greyknights can even ally together even though Necrons is the primary.

...Nope. No it isn't. The only bits in bold print are "You may take an additional primary detachment" and "Your Warlord may be from either primary detachment". Just before the last sentence of the paragraph, in brackets, it states that the second allied detachment you take must be from the same codex as the first. So no, it's not legal.
So how many crashes have I survived now?

Chicop76

Quote from: Railgun Convention on May 30, 2013, 06:50:01 AM
Quote from: Chicop76 on May 30, 2013, 02:34:35 AM
Quote from: Charistoph on May 29, 2013, 10:14:17 PM
Quote from: Railgun Convention on May 29, 2013, 08:51:43 PM
Quote from: Charistoph on May 29, 2013, 08:29:34 PM
Quote from: Chicop76 on May 18, 2013, 03:53:47 AM
2. 2k allows for some beardy list. You can take 4 hq options, 4 troop options, 2 different allies

In other words if I take a minimum of 4 troops with sisters, I can have guard and greyknights as allies.

No, you can't, unless previously agreed upon before hand.  Just as both Primary Detachments have to be from the same codex, so too, both Allied Detachments.  So you can have Guard OR Grey Knights as Allies, not both.

I must admit, I spent a while doubting that, but I found the passage that mentions multiple allied detachments. It is mentioned that the second detachment must be the same codex as the first, but it's near the end of the paragraph and in brackets. Not exactly well displayed.

Since it's right after the part that says you can take a second Allied Detachment, it's perfectly well displayed, unless one is in the habit of not finishing paragraphs.

It's on page 110 in bold print. Meaning if you play 2k you are asking for 4 bloodthirsters for example and two possible allies and two fortifications like skyshield and aegis defense line at the bottom.

I am still waiting to see the necron/ grey knight/ chaos space marine alliance. At 2k it's legal, but I wonder if two ally attatchments like chaos marines and greyknights can even ally together even though Necrons is the primary.

...Nope. No it isn't. The only bits in bold print are "You may take an additional primary detachment" and "Your Warlord may be from either primary detachment". Just before the last sentence of the paragraph, in brackets, it states that the second allied detachment you take must be from the same codex as the first. So no, it's not legal.

You ned to be more specific. It seems like you are saying everything is illegal.

So 4 bloodthirsters is still legal. Just you can only ally once, but you can take double the ally. Like 2 chaos lords with 2 plague marines and 2 sonic marines as long as you have the proper icons on your lords.