7th Ed, Overwatch with assault 2 template weapons

[Naser Al-Istikhara Cyrus]

Over watching an assault 2 template (frag cannon), how many D3 rolls do I take and is that multiplied by two for it being an assault 2 weapon?

I say it's D3 but my opponent says it's 2d3. We posted a thread on WAU and have 4 replies, 2 say 2d3 and 2 say d3.

Thoughts here?

[CoffeeGrunt]

An Assault 2 Flamer? Huh, never knew such a thing existed. It'd be 2D3, you roll a separate dice for each shot same as any other weapon. I don't think it affects your odds of what numbers come up to any noticeable degree anyway...

[Chris]

If its a template, why do you roll? Would it not simply be whats under the template? I'm probably being horrifically daft here...

[Carrelio]

If its a template, why do you roll? Would it not simply be whats under the template? I'm probably being horrifically daft here...

During overwatch the flamer template does d3 hits instead of using the flame template to provide better game balance.

[Charistoph]

An Assault 2 Flamer? Huh, never knew such a thing existed. It'd be 2D3, you roll a separate dice for each shot same as any other weapon. I don't think it affects your odds of what numbers come up to any noticeable degree anyway...

Not true.  The template rule states the weapon does D3, and does not allow for it being an Assault X, Pistl, or Rapid Fire.

[Naser Al-Istikhara Cyrus]

An Assault 2 Flamer? Huh, never knew such a thing existed. It'd be 2D3, you roll a separate dice for each shot same as any other weapon. I don't think it affects your odds of what numbers come up to any noticeable degree anyway...

Not true.  The template rule states the weapon does D3, and does not allow for it being an Assault X, Pistl, or Rapid Fire.

This is my understanding too. The other side is saying that the weapon fires twice since it is an assault 2 weapon. Posted on WAU, got about 50/50 on each boat. There doesnt seem to be any consensus.

[Kur'os]

Page 45: "An Overwatch attack is resolved like a normal shooting attack (albeit one resolved in the enemy's Assault phase) and uses all the normal rules..."

Page 173: "...if a Template weapon fires Overwatch, it automatically inflicts D3 hits one the charging unit..."

Page 173 makes it sound like all template weapons would inflict D3 hits, but given the wording of page 45, I would say that an Assault / Heavy / Salvo / etc template weapon would still fire its normal amount of shots.  So an Assault 2 template weapon = 2D3 Wall of Death hits. 

The safe route would be just D3 hits, but why would such a weapon suddenly be less effective when fired at a charging foe?

-Kur'os

[Naser Al-Istikhara Cyrus]

why would such a weapon suddenly be less effective when fired at a charging foe?

That's a question you should ask GW, since pretty much every weapon in the game is less effective when fired at a charging foe

[Kur'os]

Except template weapons.  At least GW threw us a bone with that.

Given the nature of most 40k soldiers, I don't agree with hurried /panicked nature of overwatch shots; but I understand the approach.  Game balance / mechanics have to be considered blah blah... 

A LD check (preferably with a small penalty) or even an Initiative test to fire at full BS vs BS 1 during overwatch would have been a welcome change, IMO.

-Kur'os

[Naser Al-Istikhara Cyrus]

Fantasy's overwatch mechanic is a simple -1 to BS, which is more balanced...but would nerf the already combat-heavy focus of 40k. Plus it's more balanced in fantasy because the ranged shooty units are usually awful in combat, and the combat units have no ranged weaponry.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Worth noting that a flat -X BS would make higher BS armies significantly harder to charge, which is why it's probably a good thing that this isn't the case.

Hilariously, if you're charged by a single target, Overwatch with a Template weapon is significantly more effective than the Template would be by default.

[The Man They Call Jayne]

All other weapons get their full compliment of shots, like rapid fire and so on, The Pulse Carbine gets 2 shots for being Assault 2, no reason this wouldnt either.

[Charistoph]

Page 45: "An Overwatch attack is resolved like a normal shooting attack (albeit one resolved in the enemy's Assault phase) and uses all the normal rules..."

Page 173: "...if a Template weapon fires Overwatch, it automatically inflicts D3 hits one the charging unit..."

Page 173 makes it sound like all template weapons would inflict D3 hits, but given the wording of page 45, I would say that an Assault / Heavy / Salvo / etc template weapon would still fire its normal amount of shots.  So an Assault 2 template weapon = 2D3 Wall of Death hits. 

The safe route would be just D3 hits, but why would such a weapon suddenly be less effective when fired at a charging foe?

-Kur'os

All other weapons get their full compliment of shots, like rapid fire and so on, The Pulse Carbine gets 2 shots for being Assault 2, no reason this wouldnt either.

You both are missing that Overwatch is Snap Fired and Templates cannot be fired AT ALL in their normal pattern.  This is why Wall of Death was made. 

Was it stupid for them not to take in to account the one or two Template weapons that actually fire more than once?  Probably.  Wouldn't be the first time it has been done.  But that's the Rule as Written, your House Rules may be different, though.