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Guard vs GK+Necrons, 1850

Started by Arguleon-veq, August 13, 2012, 08:30:26 PM

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Arguleon-veq

I had been thinking about my Guard the past few weeks. I think that AV14 Shooty tanks, if anything, got better. I know they can be glanced to death now but those glances will let us continue shooting, which is a huge bonus.

A note on my list, I havent used allies yet this edition and dont plan to. I think its pretty silly and it totally invalidates any balance armies had. So far tournamet organisers in the UK are allowing them but that is a lot to do with the fact that 40K has never really been comped like fantasy, I think this will eventually change. If anybody will push it through it will be the ETC[European Team Championships] and once they do, everybody else will follow.

With that in mind here is my list:

CCS: 4 Plasma
Chimera:
PCS: 4 Melta
Chimera:
10 Guardsmen:
10 Guardsmen: Autocannon+Plasmagun
10 Guardsmen: Autocannon+Plasmagun, Commissar
Spec Wep Team: 3 Melta
Spec Wep Team: 3 Melta
10 Vets: Camo Cloaks, 3 Plasma, Lascannon
Marbo:
Vendetta: Heavy Bolters
Vendetta: Heavy Bolters
Vendetta: Heavy Bolters
Demolisher: Lascannon, 2 Multi Meltas
Demolisher: Lascannon, 2 Multi Meltas
Manticore:

I was to be facing the build that I think we will start to see dominate all the tournaments in the coming months, Paladins with Necron air support.

Necron Lord;
5 Warriors;
5 Warriors;
5 Warriors;
Night Scythe;
Night Scythe;
Doom Scythe;
Annihilation Barge;
Annihilation Barge;
Draigo;
10 Paladins; 4 Psycannons, 3 Hammers.
[5]Grey Knight Strike Squad;

So we have the durability of Paladins, which score. Made much more durable against S8+ thanks to Draigo. You have 5 Warriors and Grey Knight sitting out of LOS on home objectives protected by Warp Quake. The ability to drop 2 more Warrior Squads on enemy objectives with impunity and fantastic anti air in the form of 5 Tesla Destructors and the fact the Paladins pump out 16 S7.

X-Wing Tournaments;
1st - 38
11th - 33

Arguleon-veq

I was hoping for any missions besides Relic and Purge the Alien, we roll. We get Purge the Alien....

We have Dawn set up and our warlord traits are useless.

I go first which is nice although my opponent wants second so he can drop those Warriors out of those Night Scythes late game.

Terrain: We were playing at my place and I have a lot of big bunker complexes that we count as area ruins [4+ cover], they also block LOS. He had 2 in his depo zone which let him hide his Warrior Squad, Strike Squad and Necron Lord [Warlord] so there was little to no chance of me getting to them with my list besides pot shots with my Manticore.

Early Game:

All I am really facing is the Paladins and 2 Barges as his other units are hidden and will stay that way. He also hides 1 Barge on my right flank and gets another cover on my left flank.

I combine my Plas/Auto Squads into a blob and put them in a big bunker in the middle of my depo zone whilst my Vets take up position in a ruined building on my right flank. My Chimeras and Demos deploy one each either side of my blob squad bunker. My other squads are in my Vendettas  and my Manticore is right against my own board edge getting a little cover from my main bunker.

I roll up my Demolishers a little and take a wound or two from Draigo. My Blob Squad take pot shots at the Barge they can see, rolling well and stripping it of a HP with their Autocannons. My Manticore then opens up and finishes it off. First Blood to me.

His Paladins stomp forward menacingly and unleash a hail of shots on my right hand Demol, stripping 2 HP's. Then his surviving Barge moves down the flank fast enough that it needs to snap fire at the side of the weakened Demol but he finds those sixes and then a six again to take the last HP from the Demol, killing it.

Pretty frustrated at losing a Demol so early my 2 Vendettas containing my Spec Wep Squads swoop in to strengthen my position.

The surviving Demol hunkers down in some good cover whilst the CCS[Company Command Squad] push forward a little in their Chimera to bring their Plasma into range of those Paladins.

The first Vendetta blows away the last Barge whilst the second lends its fire to the Demol, Vets, Blob Squad and CCS in order to try and bring down those Paladins, I manage to drop a few as he doesnt want to risk many more wounds on Draigo although I am hampered by a shower of 1's to wound.

His whole airforce sweeps in, the Doom Scythe blowing away my CCS Chimera with its beam whilst also taking a HP from a Vendetta with it, its Tesla then takes another HP from it. One of his Scythes finishes off my CCS so he gets the secondary objective for killing my commander. I was a little unlucky here, I thought if my Chimera died it would probably be wrecked so I could hide my commander behind it out of LOS but that beam blew up the Chimera leaving my Command Squad in the open. His other Night Scythe strips 2 HP's from the other Vendetta. His Paladins open fire on my other Demol but fail to damage it.

Mid Game:

Marbo arrives and I just hide him in his deployment zone for linebreaker out of LOS, I know he wont be able to take down a whole enemy unit in cover without being killed so I play it safe. My third Vendetta also arrives. My PCS roll their Chimera almost under the Doom Scythe and hope for some sixes with their Meltas, I am rewarded with 2 pens but I only stun it but it is down to 1 HP. My Vendetta blows away one of his Night Scythes.

I focus the rest of my fire on those Paladins and manage to kill Draigo and reduce them to only a few Paladins.

My other Vendettas had flew off the table this turn as they couldnt get a good angle on any enemy units.

He boosts off the table with his damaged flyers, wanting the decisive strike on mine when they return. The Paladins again fail to do much to the Demol.

My 2 damaged Vendettas arrive back on table and along with  the Demol and rest of my army, manage to finish off the Paladins.

His 2 flyers arrive back on table and take out one of my damaged Vendettas, killing 5 of the 6 men inside with the explosion. The other takes a shot at my Manticore and manage to blow it up with its Tesla.

Late Game:

My fully functioning Vendetta arrives back on table and my other also manages to get a bead on his Flyers but I do no damage thanks to him opting to evade and passing a lot of saves.

He kills off my lone Guardsmen for another VP and his Doomscythe blows away my PCS Chimera, the PCS inside take a few casualties, panic and flee from the table whilst his Night Scythe drops 5 Warriors in cover in my Depo Zone for Linebreaker.

So at the end of turn 5 he is on 10 I am on 7.

We roll, the game continues.

I drop my Vendettas into hover mode so as to get another bead on those Flyers. I manage to destroy both of them, giving me air superiority. This makes it 10-9 to him, If i kill those Warriors in my Depo Zone I win 10-9 as he will also lose Linebreaker. I open up on them with my Blob Squad, and Demolisher but only manage to kill 3 and they pass their LD test.

There is nothing he can do besides hope it ends. It doesnt.

In turn 7 my Vendettas drop off their cargo of a Spec Wep Team and Guard Squad, my Blob Squad can no longer see the last 2 Warriors thanks to terrain but I shoot at those 2 Warriors with; 1 Demolisher Cannon, 2 Multi Meltas, 3 Meltas, 1 Lascannon, 6 Twin Linked Lascannons, 2 Heavy Bolters and 24 Lasgun shots [12 Rapid Firing]. When the dust clears......I have only killed 1!, he passes his LD test and wins the game 10-9!

Results: Necrons and GK win 10-9

Thoughts:

Pretty frustrating way to lose although it was pretty funny. I think my list did really well considering what it was up against and my lack of allies. Had it been the classic tournament 20 point system scoring, I would have probably won that about 12-8 as I had most of my army left and he had very little. Unfortunately they seem to have gotten rid of that at tournaments so far this edition so you can lose all your tournament points for a game on a single roll or a single inch.

The Paladins were a bit of a pain to take down sespite all my high strength, low AP weapons, I think that was more to do with getting 1's to wound though as my list is well suited to terminator/paladin killing which it will need to do a lot of this edition. I am concerned at the squishyness of the command squads though and the fact that only 2 of my units are fairly durable in terms of scoring [vets due to camo and blob due to size and LD].
X-Wing Tournaments;
1st - 38
11th - 33

Lord Sotek

As a Necron player since 4th edition, your opponent's list leaves a really sour taste in my mouth. Good job on giving such a travesty of sportsmanship what-for, and a real shame the dice turned on you to create such a result.
Quote from: Saulus on March 17, 2011, 06:16:56 PM
Often I hear delusional ramble like "I painted and collected my army as ultramarine tyranid hunters....but Pedro is really good, so now I'm using him, but I'm just going to call him Jimbob-Fistpumper, cause that fits with my

Chicop76

Quote from: Arguleon-veq on August 13, 2012, 08:30:26 PM
I had been thinking about my Guard the past few weeks. I think that AV14 Shooty tanks, if anything, got better. I know they can be glanced to death now but those glances will let us continue shooting, which is a huge bonus.

A note on my list, I havent used allies yet this edition and dont plan to. I think its pretty silly and it totally invalidates any balance armies had. So far tournamet organisers in the UK are allowing them but that is a lot to do with the fact that 40K has never really been comped like fantasy, I think this will eventually change. If anybody will push it through it will be the ETC[European Team Championships] and once they do, everybody else will follow.

With that in mind here is my list:

CCS: 4 Plasma
Chimera:
PCS: 4 Melta
Chimera:
10 Guardsmen:
10 Guardsmen: Autocannon+Plasmagun
10 Guardsmen: Autocannon+Plasmagun, Commissar
Spec Wep Team: 3 Melta
Spec Wep Team: 3 Melta
10 Vets: Camo Cloaks, 3 Plasma, Lascannon
Marbo:
Vendetta: Heavy Bolters
Vendetta: Heavy Bolters
Vendetta: Heavy Bolters
Demolisher: Lascannon, 2 Multi Meltas
Demolisher: Lascannon, 2 Multi Meltas
Manticore:

I was to be facing the build that I think we will start to see dominate all the tournaments in the coming months, Paladins with Necron air support.

Necron Lord;
5 Warriors;
5 Warriors;
5 Warriors;
Night Scythe;
Night Scythe;
Doom Scythe;
Annihilation Barge;
Annihilation Barge;
Draigo;
10 Paladins; 4 Psycannons, 3 Hammers.
[5]Grey Knight Strike Squad;

So we have the durability of Paladins, which score. Made much more durable against S8+ thanks to Draigo. You have 5 Warriors and Grey Knight sitting out of LOS on home objectives protected by Warp Quake. The ability to drop 2 more Warrior Squads on enemy objectives with impunity and fantastic anti air in the form of 5 Tesla Destructors and the fact the Paladins pump out 16 S7.

I had noticed the glancing point when I played against guard in my last report. I was used to glancing a lot to prevent getting flamed and shot back. Now it seems I have to focus more on killing the vehicle rather than stunning or shaking the vehicle. That in mind I have noticed it is a lot easier to destroy vehicles than before. The guard list I fought usually would cause me more problems. The ability to actually quickly pick up units helped me out greatly. I'm mixed about using vehicles and thinking about using more squads less armour. The heavy options for vehicles for guard is still very solid to take. I do not think the chimera seems worth taking now. Also I am thinking the special teams armed with grenades may be more worth while to take.


With flyers having to come in from reservesan astro path/ master of the fleet might be worth taking. Since flyers need 3+ on turns 2 and 3 the 4+ may be good or help hard to really say. Your flyers however are better than his and you 3 lascannons that can down his flyers. In your situation you are much better to deal with flyers than any other army out there. Although Dark eEldar have a flyer with lance 9, but I think all flyers at most have 12 armour anyway making the Vendetta the best anti-flyer flyer.

I am thinking Ogryns might be worth taking now maybe. The multi wound factor with you having to take from the closest will have them allocate wounds a bit better.

I am milling over the guard codex trying to figure out what to configure.

Looking at your opponents list it reminds me of why I hate flyers. Plasma love and a demolisher is really all you got to face that. My current 6th army all I can do is kill everything on the ground and simply ignore the flyers. The problem with that he can jump out of them at the end of his turn and the game ends with you losing. Thankfully he can't field his whole army like that.

The problem with an army like that if he get wiped out with his flyers off the board that is gam over.


cuddly spike

@lord Sotek

How can this list be a travesty, due to them both being predominantly grey, and both share Matt Ward as the author, if anything its unsportsmanlike like, not to field them together in an army list.

In regards to killing whats on the table while the fliers on off the board, to win by turn one, doesn't work vs this army. It's borderline impossible to kill ten paladins in 1/2 turns of shooting, the guard list used contains the best units to kill paladins (manticore, two demolishers, 3 vendettas).

if your playing guard, in 6th, 3 vendettas should be the first thing on your army list, followed closely by a manticore or two

BigToof

Hi Arguelon-vect,
Thanks for the report!
You had a heck of an opponent, and I'm glad to see that you nearly had him.
I've noticed that you've started 6th not with Eldar anymore...
Are you planning on running with them or did they take too much of a hit?

Best,
-BT

P.S.  Karma'd!
BigToof Points:

Cammerz: 8
Waaaghpower: 1
The Man They Call Jayne: 3
Mabbz: 6
Archon Sharrek: 3

Arguleon-veq

I went off my Eldar towards the end of last edition when they utterly failed for me at a tournament haha. To be fair, it was mainly due to horrendous rolling [7 Harlequins with Rending and an Avatar charging into 8 Grey Hunters that had been doomed, in the open and killing a total of 0 and having every Harlequin and the Avatar die to return attacks for example!]. I did use them at a 20 man tournament after that, won every game and got 4th and in one more pick up game where I tabled Daemons but I was just finding it was too much of a struggle for them. They were getting run close by bad players simply because of the lists they were using.

I think in 6th they are perhaps slightly better but not by much. Vibro Cannons hitting flyers is nice. Wraithguard do what they always did but with the added bonus of sticking Eldrad or an Archon out front for look out sirs which makes the unit virtually impossible to shoot down, but that was never a problem, getting beat in combat was and that still happens. Its also easier to sit out of range of them now due to pre measuring. Our Grav tanks now get glanced to death very easily making all their defensive measures pretty useless.

I was considering this;

Eldrad;
Archon;
10 Wraithguard;
10 Harlequins;
6 Pathfinders;
3 Vibro Cannons;
5 Warriors in Venom;
5 Warriors in Venom;
DE Bomber;
DE Bomber;
X-Wing Tournaments;
1st - 38
11th - 33

Lord Sotek

Quote from: cuddly spike on August 14, 2012, 03:51:21 PM
How can this list be a travesty, due to them both being predominantly grey, and both share Matt Ward as the author, if anything its unsportsmanlike like, not to field them together in an army list.

I really hope you don't seriously mean that, because if you do then this tells me some really uncomplimentary things about your general degree of brain function.
Quote from: Saulus on March 17, 2011, 06:16:56 PM
Often I hear delusional ramble like "I painted and collected my army as ultramarine tyranid hunters....but Pedro is really good, so now I'm using him, but I'm just going to call him Jimbob-Fistpumper, cause that fits with my

cuddly spike

#8
I fully mean it, Matt Ward did indeed write both codex's. Necrons and Grey Knights are both predominantly portrayed in grey colours, even the Grey Knights name gives it away.

As an owner of the Necron codex, as you mentioned you have collected them since 4th ed, you must be aware of the fact that it was written by Matt Ward.

not knowing these facts does lead me to question your general degree of brain functions.

BigToof

MOD WARNING

Hi All,
Words are getting heated.

Please keep things civil.

I would like to not lock a thread or edit posts as I have yet to do so.

Best,
-BT
BigToof Points:

Cammerz: 8
Waaaghpower: 1
The Man They Call Jayne: 3
Mabbz: 6
Archon Sharrek: 3

Lord Sotek

Taken to PM's to avoid further cluttering up this forum. Sorry, 'toof.
Quote from: Saulus on March 17, 2011, 06:16:56 PM
Often I hear delusional ramble like "I painted and collected my army as ultramarine tyranid hunters....but Pedro is really good, so now I'm using him, but I'm just going to call him Jimbob-Fistpumper, cause that fits with my

BigToof

No worries, Lord Sotek.

Best,
-BT
BigToof Points:

Cammerz: 8
Waaaghpower: 1
The Man They Call Jayne: 3
Mabbz: 6
Archon Sharrek: 3