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Blood Angel AV13 Spam to deal with Tau - 1850

Started by Arguleon-veq, June 26, 2013, 10:13:47 PM

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Arguleon-veq

Im starting to think this may be the way to deal with Tau, Im starting to see Crons going back towards AV13 rather than Wraiths to deal with it and I think BA can do it better.

Libby: Fear, Lance
5 Scouts; Camo, Snipers, Missile
5 Scouts; Camo, Snipers
5 Assault Marines; Melta, Drop Pod
5 Assault Marines; Melta, Drop Pod
Pred: Autocannon/2 Lascannons
Pred: Autocannon/2 Lascannons
Baal Pred: Assault Cannon/Heavy Bolters
Baal Pred: Assault Cannon/Heavy Bolters
Furioso: Frag Cannon, Drop Pod
Furioso: Frag Cannon, Drop Pod
Furioso: Frag Cannon, Drop Pod
Defense Line: Quadgun
Storm Raven:

So you have triple Furiosos dropping in their lines turn one, frag cannoning drones and melta gunning broasides, any remaining drones get baal'd and then the preds lascannons finish off broadsides or start chipping away at riptides. They cant take away the cover the defense line gives your preds as vehicles dont take wounds. In later turns the libby can drop in and panic units off with fear of darkness and your assault marines can drop on objectives.
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Narric

My memory of BA FOC is a little hazy, but I'm sure you can't have two Preds & two Baal Preds, and a Storm Raven. However, i could very well be wrong.

To be honest, this may be too Mechanized.

Camo-scouts will easily be picked off by Rifle-fire, and DP Assault Marines will be swiss-cheese by Overwatch & Supporting Fire.

Even with the current rules for Vehicle Damage, one lucky shot per turn could easily deal with each of your Vehicles and Walkers.

The only thing I can think of that might give the Tau pause, is the Storm Raven, considering it being the toughest Flyer currently (IMS)

I'd personally rely less on Vehicles, and more on Terminators with Sanguinary Priests. 2+ Armour & FNP could easily deal with Tau shooting & Overwatch, whilst also carrying either devasttating Fire Power, or OTT Assault weapons.

Just my thoughts

Narric

The Man They Call Jayne

Honestly, there aren't many flyers that bother me that aren't Necron. AV12 is easy enought to deal with with massed Missile fire, and broadsides can take a Seeker aswell which will hit on a 2 with some marker support.
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Carrelio

AV13+ is way more effective against Tau than FNP terminators (a single riptide will just demolish them with S8 pieplates), and this list certainly isn't a bad one for taking on Tau.

I do see two things that make me pretty nervous for this list's success though...

First, the dreadnoughts, since their ride (the drop pod) will pretty much automatically give up first blood against a pretty common interceptor units (missilesides - again AV12 with no cover... that's an average of 1 hull point per broadside... meaning a unit of 3 will almost guarantee first blood), and anyone who is used to playing against droppods will leave those dreads (with short ranged weapons), well outside of harms reach after the initial drop (it's an easy soft-counter that everyone knows how to do by this point).

Second, you've only got 20 scoring models in your whole 1850 point list... and unlike the Tau who may have the same thing... yours don't even have metal boxes to hide inside.  Even with the 4th edition book, Tau excelled at killing marines. Now they are even better at it.  If a strong Tau player sees this list, he'll smash those 4 MSU troops and beat you through a war of attrition (taking first blood, slay the warlord, possibly line breaker, and as many objectives as he has troops still alive thanks to devilfish with AV12 and a 3+ cover save). 

Also, just so this doesn't take you by surprise, since you seem to be under a false assumption here: just because a vehicle can't be 'wounded' does not mean the cover save is not still a regular cover save... which means markerlights can and will strip your cover unless you can take down all of them before they can fire.  Your better bet is actually to out range them, since markerlights only have a range of 36"

Chicop76

If they drop by my tides it's a fusion to the face due to early warning.

Baal Preds are Fast attack so it's legal.

I found that you are still armour 10 in the back which is vulnerable to O'Shova deep strike.

My current Tau list is able to handle that. All I have to do is kill the Furioso's in my face and Baals.

Than have my tides fusion smash the rest of the armour 13 vehicles.

I am pretty confident that I can still blast away any stray marines.

This list reminds me of the 3 monolith deepstrike on the old Tau list. That didn't work out too well for the necron player.


The Man They Call Jayne

Also, EMP grenades will decimate any armour en masse.
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Arguleon-veq

I think you just have to give up first blood, your never going to drop your furiosos out of broadside range to try and conserve it. Plus your never going to drop them within 9'' of a fusion riptide.

All the fragile troops would have to start off the table against Tau, the assault marines have to anyway, your trying to kill their firepower before your troops even hit the table, like Tau are doing when they take 4x10 Kroot with a hound in each.

Ive not seen a single devilfish on the table yet, at a tournament I went last weekend that had most of the top UK players [and almost half the players using Tau] I didnt see a single fish. So it would be a case of trying to take out those broadsides and riptides and then killing off the kroot as they come on, you could even mount up a scout unit in the raven if you think you can take down their anti air quickly enough so they can charge a kroot unit off an objective late game.

You SHOULD be able to ignore vehicles cover saves but if you read the 'Ignore Cover' USR, it doesnt work against vehicles. The people I played at the weekend I let ignore my cover with things like markerlights and perfect timing but the tourny was  ruling it that it doesnt, I let them just because I think it should but as its written I dont think I could win an argument that I should if I happen to roll up perfect timing on my rune priest.

Farsight bomb would be an utter nightmare for this list and would beat it easily but I think it stands a better chance against regular Tau than most other lists around at the min.   

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11th - 33

Chicop76

I came across this which I thought was stupid. You can't wound a vehicle, so you can't ignore cover saves. Seems retarded that you can ignore models with wounds cover saves, but not huge vehicles.


Carrelio

Wow, my bad, I thought ignore cover meant it ignored cover, not ignored wounded cover.
I wouldn't depend on that crutch for too long though (or at least I'd hope not)... that's a pretty glaring issue if people are bringing that up in tournaments.

Currently the only argument I'd have for why you'd still get to ignore cover is that the BRB states the vehicles cover save as "exactly as a non-vehicle model would do against a Wound" but that wouldn't hold up against a rule lawyer. But yah... I guess it does work.

Arguleon-veq

Yeah its very daft, thats why I let my opponents play it as they can ignore cover, I lost my manticore to it a few times but I didnt mind as thats how I think it was intended, hopefully they will FAQ it soon. Even if they can start ignoring tank cover again I think high AV's are still the way to deal with Tau rather than any kind of infantry.
X-Wing Tournaments;
1st - 38
11th - 33

Chicop76

Quote from: Arguleon-veq on June 28, 2013, 10:52:21 AM
Yeah its very daft, thats why I let my opponents play it as they can ignore cover, I lost my manticore to it a few times but I didnt mind as thats how I think it was intended, hopefully they will FAQ it soon. Even if they can start ignoring tank cover again I think high AV's are still the way to deal with Tau rather than any kind of infantry.

I palyed against Tau with daemons and nids which defeated the Tau player ever time. I would pick a point and focus the vast majority of my army at that point. It overwhelms the army and it starts to fold. I run enough large blast templates to force them to not castle up, or I remind them I am dishing out at least 3 a turn.

I noticed if you have well cooridinated assaults Tau can't handle it. I rather forgo assaulting with 2_3 units in turn 2, and rather assault with 8-10 units on turn 3. I do play the shooting contest taking out key units, or reducing oncoming fire power.

Going second really helps against Tau since you can deploy where you want to put pressure on certain aspects of the army. Going first is hurtful since you kinda puting yourself out there.

Nids I have to say sporemines and taking a doom is rather nice vs Tau.


Arguleon-veq

Yeah the Doom is great against them, their low LD coupled with the lack of much S8 in a lot of Tau lists cam really hurt them.

X-Wing Tournaments;
1st - 38
11th - 33

Chicop76

Quote from: Arguleon-veq on June 28, 2013, 05:04:54 PM
Yeah the Doom is great against them, their low LD coupled with the lack of much S8 in a lot of Tau lists cam really hurt them.

I noticed if you use the pod to block line of sight from the instant death weapons it helps out the doom even more so.

Ironically it seems you can also outshoot Tau as well. I learned that the hard way if you stay out of 36".


Arguleon-veq

Ive dominated Tau a few times by staying outside of their 36'' sweet spot but I find its only really possible when playing 'Hammer and Anvil', standard set up just leaves them too close to stay out of range for any decent amount of time.
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11th - 33

The Man They Call Jayne

I have been tempted to address that issue by making some of my big guns more mobile, but it does mean introducing other elements. Broadsides could be replaced with XV8s with 2 Missile Pods, but that does mean dedicating a Pathfinder team or a Tetra to make up the accuracy difference.

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