Raven Guard Army w/ Black Templar Allies 2000pts need some C+C

[Little_Czar]

So it has been ages since I posted anything to 2nd Sphere, maybe 5+ years. In any case I am trying to finish up a semi-competative list that I have been working on for some time and need a little help. This is for my personal chapter "The Emperor's Falcons." They are in theory the Raven guard version of the Black Templars, anything listed in red is part of the Black Templar detachment and the rest is using the Raven Guard tactics. For some more details, I mostly play against IG, Eldar, CSM, and Deathwing. I also own all of this as well as a pile of nilla marines, 2 dreadnoughts, a Rhino, and bitz to make a command squad and several variations of captain. The Vanguard Vets are proxied Sanguinary guard (because those models are gorgeous) but I can still change their load-out. Please comment and criticize and let me know where the list is weak or strong. I would prefer not to buy anything else for this army, but if there is something you all think I am missing some thing desperately let me know.
TLDR Raven Guard and Black templar ally army, need C+C, Thanks this is the final list.

Emeror's Falcons 2000
HQ 230
Librarian+Lvl 2 Psyker (In Rhino)
Powers:Biomancy, Telepathy

Emperor's Champion (in Redeemer)

Troops 697
(10 man) Crusader Squad+5xInitiates+Pwr Fist+Swrd Bro w/Pwr Fist
(In Redeemer)

(10 man) Crusader Squad+5xNeo's+Meltagun+Swrd Bro w/Pwr Fist
(In Land Raider)

(8 man) Tactical Squad+3xMarines+Plasgun+Combi-Plas
Rhino

(5 man) Tactical Squad+Plasgun+Combi-Plas
Razorback+TL-Lascannon

Elites 375
(5 man) Sternguard Squad+2xMeltaguns+3xCombi-Meltas+Power Sword
Drop Pod+Deathwind

(5 man) Vanguard Vets+3xMeltabombs+Jump Packs

Fast Attack 100
(5 man) Assault Squad+2xFlamers+Meltabombs

Heavy Support 595
Land Raider+Extra Armor

Land Raider Redeemer+Multimelta+Extra Armor

Stalker

Total 1997

[Scalphunta]

Good Evening,

How many Marines are in each squad? Also the army feels like there isn't enough troop choices. The landraiders are semi-easy expensive targets. I might just attack the tactical squad and scouts. This only leaves the 1 Crusader Squad to capture objectives.

[Charistoph]

A couple things I can think of...

Sword Brother has a Power Sword and a Lightning Claw, why?  They have the same AP, cost the same, but you lose out on the 2 Weapon bonus attack because the Claw is a Specialist Weapon.  Either give him 2 Claws or swap the Claw out for a Pistol.

Crusader Squads can take the Land Raider Crusader as a Dedicated Transport.  It would free up a slot, but that obviously isn't a concern for you.

Your Troop squads appear to be... deficient and would likely die to focused fire fairly quickly.

Sternguard are almost wasted with Raven Guard Tactics, unless you're planning on Outflanking them.  So, set the Drop Team up as Templars and give the Sergeant a Power Sword to make him a Challenge Monkey.

[Little_Czar]

Ok so I went in and edited a few things for clarity and made a small change here or there.

So what I got from the posts so far is that Another squad of tac marines would compliment the force. I would like to run another 10xmarine crusader squad but Im unsure what to give them. But to fit the tac squad in what should I take out? What could my army do without?

[Scalphunta]

How many Marines are in the Sternguard Squads, Assault Squads and Vanguard Squad? The problem with the list was the delivery system. The 1 Sternguard droppod will hurt if done correctly. The 2nd Sternguard Squad in the Land Raider, I would concentrate on because of the problem they create. The outflanking Assault Squad and Vanguard could work but your now depending on reserves. I would get rid of 1 Sternguard Squad and the 1 Assault Squad. I would squeeze to more Tactical Squads in to give you a total of 5 troop choices. Make the Tactical Squads identical. Eliminate the Landspeeder and put in a Stalker. Choose either Droppod or Jumppack, not both and attach Librarian to that squad. Or better yet, attach Libby to the Crusader Squad, which turns that squad into a headache. Arm all squads with anti-tank. Change razorback to rhinos. You now have 1 hardhitting Drop pod, 1 hardhitting Crusader Squad, possibly 3 outflanking rhinos and points to spare. The landraiders are eating up points, but you like them.

[Little_Czar]

I made some edits moved the sternguard around to squads. I followed most of the suggestions. If I run all Anti-Tank I will not stand a chance vs horde armies, so I only thew in a little more AT. And unfortunately in terms of both fluff and ally rules the librarian cannot go with a crusader squad (i wish he could though). Thanks so far let me know if I am headed in the right direction.

[Arguleon-veq]

I actually quite like it.

I would lose the Land Speeder though, it will just die way too easily to be worth the points your putting into it.

Do you still have points left in that revised list? if so by dropping the Speeder and with those extra points I would take a Predator with an Autocannon and Sponson Lascannons. Its one of the most reliable choices for Marines, its durable and puts out some really good firepower for a cheap 115 points. If you dont have spare points I would just drop the Rhino squad down to 5 Marines.

How are you planning on using the jump pack units? I think they would be very nice advancing behind the Land Raider wall, just jumping along behind them out of LOS untill you can launch into the enemy army with 2 assault squads and 2 crusader squads.

I would split your power fists between the crusader squads though in case they come against something really tough, that way at least both squads will stand a chance of dealing with whatever it is.

[Scalphunta]

I would lose the Land Speeder though, it will just die way too easily to be worth the points your putting into it.

You don't think a Stalker would be a good choice? He doesn't have much anti-air.

[Little_Czar]

Which is better a stalker or a hunter? Because it seems like the hunter is more reliable to get the kill at some point. I am greatly considering getting a hunter to finish the army. But I pay less than 75pts (forum rules won't be specific) for the speeder and that multi-melta earns back its due when it DS and knocks out a tank. I might also drop the MM from the redeemer and upgrade the other Sword Brother to have a fist.

My plan for the jump packs was to either flank and distract with them or dive straight for the scary tanks in their army. The raiders go all out and smoke screen. Rhinos flank, land speeder and drop pod in reserve to DS.

[Scalphunta]

Which is better a stalker or a hunter? Because it seems like the hunter is more reliable to get the kill at some point. I am greatly considering getting a hunter to finish the army. But I pay less than 75pts (forum rules won't be specific) for the speeder and that multi-melta earns back its due when it DS and knocks out a tank. I might also drop the MM from the redeemer and upgrade the other Sword Brother to have a fist.

My plan for the jump packs was to either flank and distract with them or dive straight for the scary tanks in their army. The raiders go all out and smoke screen. Rhinos flank, land speeder and drop pod in reserve to DS.

The problem is not the Land Speeder. The problem is "only 1" Land Speeder. The potential for making its points back is high so it would be an immediate target. The Stalker, in my opinion, is better because of the weapon profile. If you ran a squadron or multiple Land Speeders, I would like the choice. Just my opinion.

[Charistoph]

Are Raven Guard the Allies, or the Templars.

If the Templars, change one of those Land Raiders to a Crusader.  It's only the Crusader that's a DT for the Crusader Squads, and you too many Heavy choices for an Ally.

If you want the Librarian in with a squad, put a jump pack on him and have him join the Vanguard or Assault Marines.

Also keep in mind, you only have 2 Wounds for your choice of Warlord.  With his death making for a Victory Point in you average game, he makes for a relatively easy target.

[Little_Czar]

@ Charistoph
Well the issue of who is allies of who does not matter to me (they all have the same paint scheme).
As far as the Librarian his powers line up more with a plasma squad than the meltabomb jump packs.
But you bring up a great point with the warlord VP and mine only having 2 wounds. I will have to use who ever i pick very wisely.

@Scalphunta & Arguleon-veq
Would a stormtalon gunship work well to fit the niche of anti-air and anti-tank? If not I will probably build a predator/hunter that I can swap the parts around on depending on the opponent.

Once again thank you for the help so far I really like this list.

[Scalphunta]

The Stormtalon has the same problem of the Landspeeder. The Stalker is cheap and has Skyfire. The 4 twin-linked shots of the Stalker scares most flyers.

[Arguleon-veq]

To be honest I dont really think you need dedicated anti air anymore, I am seeing less and less flyers and thanks to your Land Raiders you can keep your scoring pretty safe inside them. If you are used to seeing flyers though, then I would probably swap out that Speeder for a Stalker, its a bargain at 75 points [if you do see a lot of flyers in your area].

Stormtalons at least are much harder to kill than a Speeder but the problem with a Stormtalon is that its a lot more points than the Stalker or the Speeder and it still isnt that great for killing other flyers. So id probably end up going for the Stalker.

[Little_Czar]

Ok thanks everyone for the advice the final list is now posted, I now have a lot of marines to paint.