[1500] All-Comers Tau List

[CoffeeGrunt]

The Cover Saves are two separate saves, you can't use the boost for Area Terrain saves on the Ruins save.

It's like a Hammerhead that moves behind a wall. From some directions, it will get a 5+ Jink, from others, it will get a 4+ from the wall. It would also have the option to take the 5+ Jink as well, but obviously, you roll the best possible Save. Two Cover Saves, one model.

I'm trying to find a blog article that explained this very well. You can't get a 2+ G2G without another factor adding to your Save. Whether you're using the Area Terrain save or the Ruins save, you get a 3+.

[Chicop76]

If you are in a ruin that is area terrain it is a 4+ save. only a Fortification can give you a 3+ cover save without using Stealth or Shrouded. Coversaves do not stack or accumulate.

That's even worst when you through in invisibility.  Gtg in the open would net you a +3 cover save. Also if for example you have a stealth unit in area terrain that gtg that's easily a +2 cover save, great if that unit is pink horrors which will have a 're refillable +2 cover saves.

I don't think I play any game that I don't at least gtg once. I do it religiously with my Tau, used to do it all the time in 5th with my nids, until they made fearless unable to gtg. I do it with daemons, guard, marines, etc.

I am one of the rare people that uses focus fire which really helps against people like me. In 5th I used to have my gaunts in waves. My front row woukd have feel no pain and my back row would gtg. Which meant you either deal with the +4 NP gaunts or the + 3 Cover save gaunts behind them. Now it's +5 and 4+ respectively,  but at least I can snap fire in this edition,  not to mention I can give the back row invisibility which is sooo awesome,  +2 cover saves there, it makes devourers worth while, forces you to kill all the free gaunts first to get rid of the +2 cover save which numb the devourers up to a 4 plus, but if I gtg they will have a 3 plus, 2 plus if they in terrain without me gtg.

Gtg is better than slice bread. With Tau it's not a negative if you run enough marker lights. Tzeentch horrors it's crazy since they can shoot like normal since they use psychic powers.

However since people pick up my gtg tactics I have to deal with it as well. Which means I typically like using my Tau to negate cover saves.

Not saying you should gtg always with everything.  Just saying gtg kroot is like way cheaper than a terminator and have won me several games. I almost do backflips if I see trees woth area terrain.

@ coffee I see your point. That's why it's been back and forth. The argument is you are using the better 4 plus due to the ruin, but you still in area terrain.  If the plus two cover save said just to area terrain saves than their would be less arguments about it. The problem is that if you are in area terrain you get a general +2 to cover saves in general. Which means a plus two to the ruin save.

[CoffeeGrunt]

@ coffee I see your point. That's why it's been back and forth. The argument is you are using the better 4 plus due to the ruin, but you still in area terrain.  If the plus two cover save said just to area terrain saves than their would be less arguments about it. The problem is that if you are in area terrain you get a general +2 to cover saves in general. Which means a plus two to the ruin save.

I'm going to move off this topic because I've said all I can about it.

Btw Stealth Suits get a 2+ Cover in any sort of Terrain, or even for standing behind another unit, due to Stealth/Shrouded giving them +3 to Cover Saves.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Further tweaked it.

Both Pathfinder squads are now 8 men. One extra Kroot added for 15 total. One Pathfinder squad that Outflanks now has EMP Grenades.

This gives me some surprise Anti-Tank in the list, in case it's needed. It'll be the first time I've used EMP Grenades, so we'll see how they go.

[Chicop76]

Further tweaked it.

Both Pathfinder squads are now 8 men. One extra Kroot added for 15 total. One Pathfinder squad that Outflanks now has EMP Grenades.

This gives me some surprise Anti-Tank in the list, in case it's needed. It'll be the first time I've used EMP Grenades, so we'll see how they go.

Like I said it's back and forth type argument.

I like the EMP grenades,  its like a wtf and not really an expected tactic and easily over looked. Especially if you hand over your list instead of announcing what they have. Hey if I give you a copy of my list it saves me time telling you every thing and if you are too lazy to read than oh well.

I know about stealth suits and putting support commander with them, nice unit that can have 4 marker drones and a sarge with a marker that can all shoot seperately from the suits if you wanted, the infiltrate and cover saves make it more appealing to me than the drone and commander formation, I am still waiting for someone to run a drone squad with twin bs 5 near an Ethereal which at that point you just rolling to wound from either 20 or 30 shots.

[CoffeeGrunt]

I like the EMP grenades,  its like a wtf and not really an expected tactic and easily over looked. Especially if you hand over your list instead of announcing what they have. Hey if I give you a copy of my list it saves me time telling you every thing and if you are too lazy to read than oh well.

It's gunna be the ace up my sleeve. Few people ask to read my list, though I always offer to and have it printed out. Could kill something pretty important, if I'm lucky.

I know about stealth suits and putting support commander with them, nice unit that can have 4 marker drones and a sarge with a marker that can all shoot seperately from the suits if you wanted, the infiltrate and cover saves make it more appealing to me than the drone and commander formation, I am still waiting for someone to run a drone squad with twin bs 5 near an Ethereal which at that point you just rolling to wound from either 20 or 30 shots.

Hmmm, only problem is that you can't Infiltrate a non-Infiltrate IC, even it's attached to an Infiltrating unit. It's the last clause in the Infiltrate rule. You can still Scout/Outflank, though, which is very handy IMO. In cover they'd be pretty hard to remove, and up to 8 T-L BS5 Markerlights would be handy. My only issue is that Stealth Suits are close range, Markerlights are long. You'll have the issue of wanting to get close to use your Burst Cannons, but also wanting to hang back to keep the Markerlights out of harm's way.

[Chicop76]

I like the EMP grenades,  its like a wtf and not really an expected tactic and easily over looked. Especially if you hand over your list instead of announcing what they have. Hey if I give you a copy of my list it saves me time telling you every thing and if you are too lazy to read than oh well.

It's gunna be the ace up my sleeve. Few people ask to read my list, though I always offer to and have it printed out. Could kill something pretty important, if I'm lucky.

I know about stealth suits and putting support commander with them, nice unit that can have 4 marker drones and a sarge with a marker that can all shoot seperately from the suits if you wanted, the infiltrate and cover saves make it more appealing to me than the drone and commander formation, I am still waiting for someone to run a drone squad with twin bs 5 near an Ethereal which at that point you just rolling to wound from either 20 or 30 shots.

Hmmm, only problem is that you can't Infiltrate a non-Infiltrate IC, even it's attached to an Infiltrating unit. It's the last clause in the Infiltrate rule. You can still Scout/Outflank, though, which is very handy IMO. In cover they'd be pretty hard to remove, and up to 8 T-L BS5 Markerlights would be handy. My only issue is that Stealth Suits are close range, Markerlights are long. You'll have the issue of wanting to get close to use your Burst Cannons, but also wanting to hang back to keep the Markerlights out of harm's way.

My bad I keep forgetting about that. Used to scouting with hounds and herald. Still can outflank with them though. I see your point with the suits. As long as you are 24" from a target they can hit it with the burst guns. Also your markers really have a 42" range.

The problem I find with drones and huge pathfinders squads is over saturation of marker lights. The problem is you will have like 8 lights on a target which is more than enough.  I had issues with fire warriors have bs 10 etc.

I try to run multiple marker squads which gives me the opportunity to spread out my lights. Typically I like 3 lights on a target per shooting unit max. I need two for remove cover and the other to up bs. However the support commander and splitfire with his unit frees up the need of taking some markers. With the case of my sides that's easily 6-8 markers freed up for other use, unless I am moving or gtg.

I have debated on using twin linked suits and give them over watch of 5. For example 3 suits like that would have 6 plasma shots which 3-4 plasma shots would hit if they was assaulted. If you have say 9 suits that's 9-12 plasma wounds which can take out a lot of things. Still debating if the bs 5 twin linking is worth it.

I thought about running them on my broadsides.  For example with high yield missiles that's 12  strength 7 shots. About 7 shots would hit due to twin linked bs 5 hits which is a decent amount of hits. If you can get a marker in there or two than look out.

[The Man They Call Jayne]

Blackout teams work wonders. You are pretty much garenteed to at least glace something big to death.

[CoffeeGrunt]

The problem I find with drones and huge pathfinders squads is over saturation of marker lights. The problem is you will have like 8 lights on a target which is more than enough.  I had issues with fire warriors have bs 10 etc.

I used to have that issue, though now my Riptide and Hammerhead eat up all the Markelrights available. I only run 8 Pathfinders because it averages 4 Markerlights, which is enough for most of my needs.

I have debated on using twin linked suits and give them over watch of 5. For example 3 suits like that would have 6 plasma shots which 3-4 plasma shots would hit if they was assaulted. If you have say 9 suits that's 9-12 plasma wounds which can take out a lot of things. Still debating if the bs 5 twin linking is worth it.

I personally take the view that if they're being charged, they didn't do their job properly. Also, we play it here that Multi-Trackers and other kit don't affect Overwatch as they state, "...in the Shooting Phase." This means I'd only get to fire one gun per suit.

That tactic could be useful in stopping the enemy making the charge, but paying for Dual-Plasma and another upgrade would be an even better way of ensuring the potential charging unit fails to exist by the end of your Turn.

Blackout teams work wonders. You are pretty much garenteed to at least glace something big to death.

The Missile Pod team? Oh yeah! They've got a nice kill count. One game, I managed to kill two Rhinos in a single shooting attack, they've glanced Vindicators and Predators to death. Anything short of a Land Raider gets a bloody nose from these guys for sure!

[Chicop76]

I just debated taking it. It's the same that you can only over watch with one weapon here too sometimes.  I ask the judge and go with what he says at game start.

If you take a lot of suits I find twin linking a better option.  Double guns cost 30 to more accuracy for 20. Which brings up if 18 shots at bs 4 is better than 9 twin at bs 4 the answer is 9 vs 7. It's better but not by much. Than consider cost. For 60 points you have 4 plasma vs 3 twin plasma. The 8 rapid fire shots will hit 4 times compared to 6 plasma which would hit 4.5 times.

Basically I can get more from the twin linked guns than regular over all. However I find myself having points for an extra suit or two as well. If you through in markers it makes a difference,  but twin weapons need less marker support.

If you also add the 5 points for the extra bs than you are nearing the cost of taking just two weapons. Like you said if you're in combat the game is going downhill anyway. Those scout bikes for example.

I use to run teams of 8-6. Now I run them as teams of 4. I just need 2 for deny cover and I am happy with that. However I am thinking of going to a larger size to give me the outflank option.

[The Man They Call Jayne]

A blackout team is a firewarrior or pathfinder team equipped with EMPs. So called because an EMP causes an electrical blackout.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Teams of 4 Pathfinders are an easy First Blood, though, so I avoid that.

Two guns is almost always better than one Twin-Linked, except when cost is a factor. A team of three with two guns each gets 12 shots in Rapid Fire, 6 of which will hit base. A team with T-L guns will get 6 shots maximum, and they'll never all hit, so they'll always lose out.

They are, however, cheaper. I personally run Fusion Monats with T-L because cheap and expendable. Anything else doubles up and I divert some Markerlights to them. 12 Plasma shots hitting on 2s tears entire Space Marine squads off the table.

Your example of two Plasma guns vs three T-L doesn't take into account the cost of the unit carrying it, plus extra Support Systems.

Two models with two Plasma Rifles each will cost 104pts. Three units with a T-L Plasma each will cost 126pts. In Rapid Fire range, the two-man team will average four hits, the T-L team will average four to five hits at BS3. A slight edge, but also slightly more expensive.

IMO the best approach is one T-L, one normal Plasma. The most expensive option of the lot, but you get volume of fire, as well as improved accuracy. That said, I am a fan of a cheap ATS on Plasma Crisis teams, but for 2pts more than that, it could make the unit pretty horrendous to anything you point them at.