2000 points pure Sisters of Battle

[Masked Thespian]

Hey everyone, how's it going?
 
I find myself in a bit of a weird situation, as I'm returning to the game after a break of around 6 years.  The last time I played a game it was 5th edition so my rules knowledge is a couple of editions out of date.  I've chosen to finally get around to assembling and painting the Sisters of Battle army that I've owned, but never done anything with, for around 8-9 years.
 
This 2000 point army is intended to be the start of me finally getting the army off the ground.  It is intended to be both an end point but also something that I can choose smaller armies from.  At my former gaming club games tended to be around 1500 points so, assuming that game sizes haven't changed too much over the edition changes, I figured 2000 points would be a nice starting point to aim for.

Currently, none of the army is assembled, so I have full control over what I can choose at this point, subject to the following model list (which I can add to, but I'd like to try and keep new purchases down to a minimum):

[spoiler='Model List']HQ
Saint Celestine
5 Canoness (variety of weapons)
Uriah Jacobus
2 x Redemptor Kyrinov (Priest with Mace of Valaan)
4 Preachers
3 Missionaries (2 with Plasma Guns)
1 Daemonhunter Hierophant (Priest with Eviscerator)
6 Arco-flagellants
2 Crusaders
2 Death Cult Assassins
2 Sister Dialogus
2 Sister Hospitaller
1 Sister with Banner

Elites
9 Sisters Repentia
2 Mistress of Repentance

Fast Attack
32 Seraphim with 2 Bolt Pistols
14 Seraphim with 2 Hand Flamers
8 Seraphim Superiors

Heavy Support
3 Exorcists
2 Penitent Engines

Transport
7 Immolators/Rhinos

General Sister of Battle models (for Command Squads, Celestian Squads, Battle Sister Squads, Dominion Squads, and Retributor Squads)
75 Boltgun
15 Flamer
8 Storm Bolter
4 Meltagun
14 Sister Superior/Veteran Sister Superior
1 Multi Melta
5 Heavy Bolter
4 Heavy Flamer
6 Simulacrum Imperialis[/spoiler]

With all that in mind, here's the army list.  I'm looking for any kind of help I can get, both with regards to Sisters of Battle specifically, but also with regard to 7th edition overall.

Combined Arms Detachment

HQ: Saint Celestine (135)

HQ: Canoness w/Rosarius, Eviscerator, Mantle of Ophelia (135)

HQ: Priest w/Mace of Valaan (50)
HQ: Priest w/Eviscerator (55)
HQ: Priest w/Power Sword (40)
HQ: Priest w/Power Sword (40)

Elites: Repentia Squad w/+5 Sisters Repentia, Melta bombs (Mistress of Repentance) (160)

Troops: Battle Sister Squad w/+4 Sisters, Flamer, Heavy Flamer, Simulacrum Imperialis, Veteran Sister Superior w/Melta Bombs, Power Sword (163)
Transport: Rhino w/Dozer Blade (45)

Troops: Battle Sister Squad w/+4 Sisters, Flamer, Heavy Flamer, Simulacrum Imperialis, Veteran Sister Superior w/Melta Bombs, Power Sword (163)
Transport: Rhino w/Dozer Blade (45)

Troops: Battle Sister Squad w/+10 Sisters, 2 Storm Bolters, Simulacrum Imperialis, Veteran Sister Superior w/Melta Bombs, Power Sword (230)

Fast Attack: Dominion Squad w/4 Meltaguns, Veteran Dominion Superior w/Melta bombs, Power Sword (135)
Transport: Immolator w/Twin-Linked Multi-Meltas, Dozer Blade (65)

Fast Attack: Seraphim Squad w/+5 Seraphim, 2 x Two Inferno Pistols, Seraphim Superior w/Power Sword, Melta Bombs (240)

Fast Attack: Seraphim Squad w/+5 Seraphim, 2 x Two Inferno Pistols, Seraphim Superior w/Power Sword, Melta Bombs (240)

Heavy Support: Exorcist w/Dozer Blade (130)

Heavy Support: Exorcist w/Dozer Blade (130)

Total: 2001

My tactics will obviously vary depending on the mission and the terrain, but I'll probably make the Canoness my Warlord and attach her and a Priest to the big squad of foot slogging Battle Sisters, with a Priest also in each of the vehicle mounted squads.  They'll probably try to head up the centre of the table to grab an objective whilst the rest of the army uses its speed to pick off annoying targets.

I can't help but feel that I don't have enough Troops in this army, but that might be a layover from previous editions of the game where only your Troops could hold objectives.

Please let me know what you think.  This army is hopefully going to form the core of my attempt at this year's Independent Characters Hobby Progress Challenge (which I punted on 2 years ago but would like to try and give it a go this year).

[Waaaghpower]

Okay, just between Sisters... (pun!)
You need Uriah WAY more than you need a Cannoness. Sad as it is, the only real reason to take a Cannoness is if you want her Command Squad, otherwise there's just no point.
Also, since they can give themselves Smash, you're better off with Power Mauls over Power Swords. And you should buy that relic which gives autopasses on War Hymn tests.

Your Seraphim should have Hand Flamers, not Inferno Pistols. The pistols are expensive, don't benefit from your AoF, and are really difficult to use properly. Give Meltas to your troops and dominions, but Flamers for your Seraphim.

Oh, and Power Swords are wasted on your Veterans. They hit after anyone that AP3 helps against, so you're better off with an axe or maul.

[Masked Thespian]

Hey, thanks for the response.

I'm open to swapping out the Canoness for Uriah, but I will say that I'm not a huge fan of doing so.  That's mostly because I'm an old school gamer (over 21 years in this hobby now) and using multiple Special Characters just wasn't the done thing back then.  It also feels kind of wrong due to not having a non-Celestine SOB "hero" in the army but, like I said, I'm open to it.  As someone with more experience with the army, can you tell me what Uriah brings that makes him a much better choice?

If I did keep the Canoness, do you have any suggestions for how to equip her Command Squad?

Giving the Priests Power Mauls isn't too much of an issue.  They're currently unconverted and I don't have any issue putting Power Mauls on them instead of Power Swords.  I can probably whip up something out of plasticard tubes and sheets pretty easily.

I'm okay with giving the Seraphim Hand Flamers.  I'd figured that having mobile anti-tank was a good idea and that the Bolt Pistols would make up the difference, via sheer rate of fire, against hordes.

For the Troop choices, would I be better off swapping the Flamer/Heavy Flamer combo for a pair of Meltaguns?

I'm a little attached to the Power Swords on the Veterans, because I mostly have the traditional Sister Superior models and really like the look of swords on SOBs.  Having said that, since the army is still unglued I have the capability to go for Axes or Mauls.  Any preference on your part?

[Waaaghpower]

I'm open to swapping out the Canoness for Uriah, but I will say that I'm not a huge fan of doing so.  That's mostly because I'm an old school gamer (over 21 years in this hobby now) and using multiple Special Characters just wasn't the done thing back then.  It also feels kind of wrong due to not having a non-Celestine SOB "hero" in the army but, like I said, I'm open to it.  As someone with more experience with the army, can you tell me what Uriah brings that makes him a much better choice?

A couple of things:
One, he's slightly cheaper than the option you propose, and also cheaper than most special characters in general. Second, his automatic warlord trait (5+ invulns) is the best one available to Sisters of Battle by far. (The others range from 'Very situational' to 'Almost useless'.) Third, he functions as an extra priest, except that he has Ld9, and everyone within 12" is fearless rather than just his unit (Not to mention the counter-attack). And, best of all, his unit gets an extra Act of Faith, which is great. I personally like sticking him in a squad of 10 Retributors with all four Heavy Bolters and a Simalcrum Imperialis, for three turns of Rending attacks with great volume of fire.

In short, he's a big ball of buffs for a really good price. The Canonness, meanwhile, is more expensive, doesn't give much damage output, doesn't provide many useful buffs, and ultimately is outdone by other army equivalents. (Within the same point range you're talking, Orks can get a Warboss on a Bike with a Power Klaw, and Chaos Space Marines get a Juggerlord with the Axe of Blind Fury, both of which are almost universally better.)

If I did keep the Canoness, do you have any suggestions for how to equip her Command Squad?

You've got three options: Free special weapon squad, free heavy weapon squad, or free Power Weapon squad. (By 'Free' I mean it doesn't use up an army slot.) For special or heavy weapons they're outdone by Dominons and Retributors, but they do get the benefit of access to Feel No Pain, which is always handy. (At T6, they'll still melt to high strength, but it makes them resist anti-infantry fire better.) Even with Power Weapons and their relic banner they're only so good at Melee considering their cost, but it's the best option you've really got as Sisters of Battle.

I'm okay with giving the Seraphim Hand Flamers.  I'd figured that having mobile anti-tank was a good idea and that the Bolt Pistols would make up the difference, via sheer rate of fire, against hordes.

For the Troop choices, would I be better off swapping the Flamer/Heavy Flamer combo for a pair of Meltaguns?

Ten Bolter shots, Shred or no, don't really offer that much anti-infantry. With proper placement (and some clever ramming shenanigans,) I've managed to get 12 or 14 hits per pair of Hand Flamers, which against Guard amounts to 10 wounds and even against Orks comes out to 7 or 8.
If you're worried about losing Melta power, then definitely swap out the troop's Melta weapons for flamers. It's almost universally a better choice; Meltas benefit more from the Preferred Enemy, Flamers benefit more from the Shred.

I'm a little attached to the Power Swords on the Veterans, because I mostly have the traditional Sister Superior models and really like the look of swords on SOBs.  Having said that, since the army is still unglued I have the capability to go for Axes or Mauls.  Any preference on your part?

If it's an aesthetic choice, leaving it with the Power Swords isn't too bad an idea. I find that Power Mauls are generally better, with a sort of morbid logic: If you're facing a really tough enemy squad, you're already dead, so planning for that choice is a little pointless. If you're fighting a lighter squad or someone more fragile, though, you're going to have a chance already, so you might as well double down on that option.

[Masked Thespian]

I'm open to swapping out the Canoness for Uriah, but I will say that I'm not a huge fan of doing so.  That's mostly because I'm an old school gamer (over 21 years in this hobby now) and using multiple Special Characters just wasn't the done thing back then.  It also feels kind of wrong due to not having a non-Celestine SOB "hero" in the army but, like I said, I'm open to it.  As someone with more experience with the army, can you tell me what Uriah brings that makes him a much better choice?

A couple of things:
One, he's slightly cheaper than the option you propose, and also cheaper than most special characters in general. Second, his automatic warlord trait (5+ invulns) is the best one available to Sisters of Battle by far. (The others range from 'Very situational' to 'Almost useless'.) Third, he functions as an extra priest, except that he has Ld9, and everyone within 12" is fearless rather than just his unit (Not to mention the counter-attack). And, best of all, his unit gets an extra Act of Faith, which is great. I personally like sticking him in a squad of 10 Retributors with all four Heavy Bolters and a Simalcrum Imperialis, for three turns of Rending attacks with great volume of fire.

In short, he's a big ball of buffs for a really good price. The Canonness, meanwhile, is more expensive, doesn't give much damage output, doesn't provide many useful buffs, and ultimately is outdone by other army equivalents. (Within the same point range you're talking, Orks can get a Warboss on a Bike with a Power Klaw, and Chaos Space Marines get a Juggerlord with the Axe of Blind Fury, both of which are almost universally better.)

Those are some pretty good reasons.  Having said that, how useful do you think he'd be in this army or in a smaller army made up entirely of units from this army?  Because the buffs are good and all, but I don't reckon he's going to have too many units to buff.  He'd probably go in the big foot slogging unit (probably bumped up to 20 with the extra points from dropping the Canoness and the Inferno Pistols) and then...  what?  The only other unit I see moving upfield alongside that unit are the Repentia, who are already Fearless.  There aren't any Retributors (currently), so I can't use your tactic of thrice-per-game Rending.  In a vacuum, he certainly seems a lot better, but in this particular case it seems like a lot of his bonuses don't give me as much of a benefit as they could.

If I did keep the Canoness, do you have any suggestions for how to equip her Command Squad?

You've got three options: Free special weapon squad, free heavy weapon squad, or free Power Weapon squad. (By 'Free' I mean it doesn't use up an army slot.) For special or heavy weapons they're outdone by Dominons and Retributors, but they do get the benefit of access to Feel No Pain, which is always handy. (At T6, they'll still melt to high strength, but it makes them resist anti-infantry fire better.) Even with Power Weapons and their relic banner they're only so good at Melee considering their cost, but it's the best option you've really got as Sisters of Battle.

That's what I was afraid of.  I'd looked at the unit entry and couldn't see anything great about it that Dominions and Retributors couldn't give, other than its Act of Faith and the Hospitaller, Dialogus, Banner, and armoury access options.

I'm okay with giving the Seraphim Hand Flamers.  I'd figured that having mobile anti-tank was a good idea and that the Bolt Pistols would make up the difference, via sheer rate of fire, against hordes.

For the Troop choices, would I be better off swapping the Flamer/Heavy Flamer combo for a pair of Meltaguns?

Ten Bolter shots, Shred or no, don't really offer that much anti-infantry. With proper placement (and some clever ramming shenanigans,) I've managed to get 12 or 14 hits per pair of Hand Flamers, which against Guard amounts to 10 wounds and even against Orks comes out to 7 or 8.
If you're worried about losing Melta power, then definitely swap out the troop's Melta weapons for flamers. It's almost universally a better choice; Meltas benefit more from the Preferred Enemy, Flamers benefit more from the Shred.

Don't wielders of dual pistols get to shoot both now?  I thought that'd give 15 Bolt shots.  Nonetheless, you've convinced me that I ought to swap them for twin Hand Flamers.

That's a very good point about Meltaguns.  I'm loathe to switch the Flamers for Meltas, both because it means I have to buy more models as well as having nowhere for the Flamer/Heavy Flamer models to go in their stead, but it might be the best option overall.

I'm a little attached to the Power Swords on the Veterans, because I mostly have the traditional Sister Superior models and really like the look of swords on SOBs.  Having said that, since the army is still unglued I have the capability to go for Axes or Mauls.  Any preference on your part?

If it's an aesthetic choice, leaving it with the Power Swords isn't too bad an idea. I find that Power Mauls are generally better, with a sort of morbid logic: If you're facing a really tough enemy squad, you're already dead, so planning for that choice is a little pointless. If you're fighting a lighter squad or someone more fragile, though, you're going to have a chance already, so you might as well double down on that option.

Gotcha.

Thanks again for the response   

[Waaaghpower]

On the subject of Bolt Pistols:
I Derped my math. I saw '5 extra Seraphim' and thought 'Oh, sure, 5 Seraphim'.

On the subject of Uriah:
While it's true that his buffs only go so far in an army like yours, he's still better than nothing. On the Repentia, he gives them uber FNP for one more turn of combat, on the blob of Sisters he makes them into an immovable object that is nigh impossible to shift. (3+5++ rerollable in Melee, Fearless, gets PE twice a game, counter attack...)

[Masked Thespian]

So, the site that I'm doing the hobby challenge for added a rule that Adeptus Sororitas, Inquisition, and Officio Assassinorum all count as the same "faction" for purposes of gaining credit for the challenge.  I took a look at Codex: Inquisition and realised that I could add a certain part of Codex: Witch Hunters that I'd always wanted to do to the army (having bought the models for it) and still have it count.

I'm considering adding some or all of the following to the army, obviously removing certain things to make room.

Inquisitorial Detachment

HQ: Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor Lord w/Null Rod, Power Armour, 3 Servo Skulls (67)

Elites: Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband w/1 Crusader and 9 Acolytes w/9 x Carapace Armour, 3 x Plasma Gun, 6 x Hot-Shot Lasgun (147)
Transport: Chimera w/Dozer Blade, Searchlight (61)
(counts as Arbites Patrol Squad w/Patrol Leader (Crusader), 3 Specialists w/ Plasma Guns and 6 Arbitrators w/ Arbites Combat Shotguns)

Elites: Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband w/1 Crusader and 9 Acolytes w/9 x Carapace Armour, 3 x Plasma Gun, 6 x Hot-Shot Lasgun (147)
Transport: Chimera w/Dozer Blade, Searchlight (61)
(counts as Arbites Patrol Squad w/Patrol Leader (Crusader), 3 Specialists w/ Plasma Guns and 6 Arbitrators w/ Arbites Combat Shotguns)

Elites: Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband w/1 Crusader and 9 Acolytes w/9 x Carapace Armour, 3 x Plasma Gun, 6 x Hot-Shot Lasgun (147)
Transport: Chimera w/Dozer Blade, Searchlight (61)
(counts as Arbites Patrol Squad w/Patrol Leader (Crusader), 3 Specialists w/ Plasma Guns and 6 Arbitrators w/ Arbites Combat Shotguns)


Alternatively, I could include up to one of the following instead of one of the Patrol Squads.

Elites: Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband w/1 Crusader and 9 Arco-Flagellants (150)
Transport: Chimera w/Dozer Blade, Searchlight (61)
(counts as Arbites Cyber-Mastiff Squad with Cyber-Mastiff Handler (Crusader) and 9 Cyber-Mastiffs (Arco-Flagellants))


The Inquisitor is one that I created for the Inquisitor Specialist Game and that I'd bought the parts for to make in 28mm as well a long time ago.  I know she won't be very effective in combat, but adding the Null Rod to a big blob of Sisters, which would otherwise likely become the target of any nasty psychic powers the enemy would want to use against them, is probably worth the points.

In her retinue, she has an Arbite Judge, which gave me the idea to include the Henchmen as Arbites.  Ironically, she's actually an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor, but the Hereticus Inquisitor's wargear options suit her better (the Null Rod was previously also available to Malleus Inquisitors in Codex: Daemonhunters).  She's an Anomalian Beholder, part of a group of Inquisitors who believe in watching Humanity for Divine Avatars, so it would make a lot of sense for her to be part of this Adeptus Sororitas army due to the presence of Saint Celestine.  She also tends to lead without being recognisable as being the leader, so it also makes sense for her to not be the army's warlord.

The Hot-Shot Lasguns are pricey, but add a reasonable amount of AP3 shots to the army, up close at least.  I could drop them and take Boltguns instead, which would drop the cost of the squad from 147 to 123, though obviously I'd lose the AP3 shots.  I might also want to change the Chimeras for Rhinos if all I want to do is get up close and shoot.  In a perfect world I'd change the Chimeras for Repressors but I don't think that the rules allow that, and finding Repressor models seems all but impossible right now.

What do people think about this?  It would dilute the Sororitas flavour slightly, whilst increasing the flavour of the army overall, as well as improving its anti-MEQ abilities.

[Waaaghpower]

Okay, Inquisition:
Firstly, why aren't you taking Psycollum? It's admittedly situational, but when thw right situation comes around, it is the Warp on Wheels. You effectively autohit psykers at range, for your whole unit, for just 25 points.

Second, Carapace Armor is a huge waste. Doubling the cost of the model to add 1 to its armor save is a vastly inefficient way to spend your points. I'll put it this way: If you dropped the Carapace, you could buy an entire extra squad of Acolytes. (I mean, not really, you don't have the FOC for it, but you get my meaning.)


Inquisition are great because they can provide a cheap source of putty to fill in holes your army may have. Cheap Warp Charges? Gotcha. Cheap assault squads? Gotcha. Cheap characters to add ablative wounds? Gotcha. (Seriously, if nothing else, for 33 points you can give a squad Ld10 and three 3+ armored wounds.) They lack AA, artillery, and 2+ armor, but they can still fill in your other gaps really well.

[Masked Thespian]

Firstly, why aren't you taking Psycollum? It's admittedly situational, but when thw right situation comes around, it is the Warp on Wheels. You effectively autohit psykers at range, for your whole unit, for just 25 points.

Because it doesn't fit the character.  She's not a psyker hunter by trade and, as mentioned, is actually a member of the Ordo Malleus so likely wouldn't have access to Hereticus equipment.  As mentioned, she's an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor Lord in the new Codex only because Ordo Malleus Inquisitor Lords no longer have access to Null Rods.

Second, Carapace Armor is a huge waste. Doubling the cost of the model to add 1 to its armor save is a vastly inefficient way to spend your points. I'll put it this way: If you dropped the Carapace, you could buy an entire extra squad of Acolytes. (I mean, not really, you don't have the FOC for it, but you get my meaning.)

Because they're supposed to be Arbites, and Arbites come with Carapace Armour as standard.

Inquisition are great because they can provide a cheap source of putty to fill in holes your army may have. Cheap Warp Charges? Gotcha. Cheap assault squads? Gotcha. Cheap characters to add ablative wounds? Gotcha. (Seriously, if nothing else, for 33 points you can give a squad Ld10 and three 3+ armored wounds.) They lack AA, artillery, and 2+ armor, but they can still fill in your other gaps really well.

I get it.  I really get it.  For a power gamer, the Inquisition is a dream.  You can do loads of things really well and cover holes that your army misses.  And that's awesome.

But that's not why I want to use them.  I want to include my Inquisitor from Inquisitor.  I want to use the multiple boxes of Necromunda Enforcers and umpteen Cadians/SM Scout bits I bought years ago to actually use Arbites on the tabletop.

I understand that I'm not taking optimal choices.  I understand that I'm not necessarily filling holes that need filling.  But I was hoping that the things I was suggesting might actually work in some form or another, even if only marginally.

Back to the drawing board, methinks.

[Waaaghpower]

If you want to use those, go for it, I'm just saying that they're suboptimal choices at best, especially alongside Sisters. If nothing else, I'd drop down to a single squad rather than 3, you probably won't need 600-ish points of Plasma/low AP delivery all in the exact same format, but one Chimera full could still be handy.

[Masked Thespian]

I agree that I probably don't need three squads of them.  A single one would probably suffice.

How about in a Valkyrie?  I can see a SWAT helicopter-esque Valkyrie as being within the remit of the Arbites.  Sisters don't have any access to Flyers outside of Forgeworld (and I don't really have the money spare to go and get myself an Avenger Strike Fighter just yet) so it might be interesting.

I don't have any experience of Flyers in 7th edition.  Does anyone have any thoughts or hints they'd like to share?

[Waaaghpower]

The Valkyrie is a... Not bad inclusion. On the one hand, it can drop your troops in without going into Hover mode, which is nice, and it's reasonably well armored for a flier.

On the other hand, though, its firepower is either a moderately powerful  single barrage of AA fire, or else a reusable ground blast that's effective, but not entirely needed in a Sisters army.

I generally find that taking a single flier (Unless it's Stormraven levels of tough) is just begging to get it picked off by token AA fire.

For 125 points you could do a lot worse, though at that point I'd recommend taking two squads and two Valkyries for better support.

(Also: Someone else chime in already!)

[Mabbz]

I don't know much about sisters, but as a guard player I should be able to give some advice on some of the inquisitorial stuff.

Firstly, I would say stick with the chimeras over rhinos. Rhinos are cheaper, yes, but their weaker front armour means they can be more easily taken out turn 1, which is bad if you want them to get the arbites up close. Besides, the chimera has fire points, which makes it more than worth it since you want to be firing those plasma guns as much as possible. I would say that the dozer blades are probably unnecessary though; in my experience it's rare that you absolutely have to go through terrain, and even then it's only a 1 in 6 chance of it going wrong. I suppose it depends on your boards though.

With the Arbites, I agree that three squads is probably a waste. You have plenty of firepower with one or two. That said, I wholeheartedly disagree with anyone saying that carapace armour isn't worth it. AP5 weaponry is a lot more common than AP4 (flamers and bolters spring to mind), so you are effectively doubling your survival rates against those weapons. You need that, especially since your are taking plasma guns; you don't want to waste those points because they died to an overheat, or some guy with a flamer.

Valkyries. I can't say I've ever used them myself, but they might be worth a look. I prefer chimeras for the fire points, but then the valkyrie can get them in range faster. All I can say here is that you are probably better off using either chimeras or valkyries, not both. Otherwise a lone chimera will die before the valkyrie can arrive, and a lone valkyrie will die to token AA fire, as Waaaghpower said.

[Masked Thespian]

On the subject of Flyers, how much do I need to take them into account?  Are they fairly ubiquitous?  And what options do I have for anti-air fire?  I'd like to go as ally-free as possible, but seeing as the Adeptus Sororitas codex has no anti-air wargear or weapons I doubt that's an option.  I've noticed that there aren't rules for the Aegis Defence Line in the rulebook any more, unlike in 6th Edition, so where are those located these days?

[Narric]

Looking at the Sisters Weapons, I think the only option they have that could dent a Flyer is the Exorcist Missile Launcher. The problem is that you would be only able to hit with it on a 6, due to snap shots. If you roll for a high yeild of missiles, you could luck out and score a hit, and have a 50% chance of glancing, and 33% chance of a penetrating hit (assuming AV12). Same applies to Monstrous Flying Creatures, but they may be easier to wound due to S vs T.

If you manage to get either kind of flyer on the ground (or your opponent needs to land it), your best bet is to pummel it with as many high strength guns you have in range. Flying MCs have(had?) a chance to get back in the air, but Vehicle Flyers iirc becoming turrets, or at least fast skimmers (someone with a rulebook to hand correct me if I'm wrong).

If you can find a way to add Infantry Missile Launchers with Flakk Missiles, they'll give you more chances to take down flyers, whilst also providing Frag and Krak missiles.