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Heavy Support Worries

Started by Carrelio, May 15, 2012, 12:35:41 AM

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Carrelio

Hey everyone,
I've been doing a lot of Tau research and I've begun wondering just what makes an acceptable competitive amount of railguns.
I've been finding more and more that as newer codex's are released and the meta continues to change, that it's getting more difficult to keep up with the required amounts of anti-tank and heavy infantry.  This is an even greater worry for my Farsight list where the bulk of my force is restricted.
So here's the question... in a 2000 point list, will 5 railguns (a unit of broadsides and 2 hammerheads) provide enough anti-tank to pop all those little metal boxes? From what I have seen, the answer is no, but I'd like to know what you guys think.

Naser Al-Istikhara Cyrus

Crisis suit team with either twin missiles + Array, or with Plasma/Missile + Multitracker are good against light armour - so you only use those railguns on the real heavy stuff. Plasma/Missile are also great at outputting high strength shots in mass amounts.
Quote from: Narric on August 15, 2011, 12:09:07 AM
You make it sound like it could be wearing a top-hat and monocle, but for the sole reason it'd have been painted by Gareth that it would still look terrifying........I have to say I agree. XD
Quote from: Greg Mun

knightperson

Agreed. You should also consider the possibility of the fusion piranhas or fusion crisis suits. Or technically the fusion stealths as well, but I don't much like them. ...

Basically, there are three tiers of antitank in the Tau asenal: 

  • transport-killers: missile pods, seeker missiles, and the ion cannon
  • AV13-14 only: fusion blasters
  • any vehicle, but expensive: the mighty railguns

I think it's viable, especially for a Farsight list, to go without railguns entirely. Have lots of crisis suits with missile pods and similar, then a decent number of fusion piranhas for the AV14. If nothing else it would surprise an opponent who thinks that the key to defeating Tau is getting rid of the railguns first.
Cured of what I'm suffering from, but suffering from the cure.

Floobosaurus

RGs are expensive, so the number of you bring should generally only reflect the number of heavy vehicles you expecting. Light/medium vehicles should be countered with Str7 guns. Any slack in-between should ideally be covered by FBs (b/c they are cheap, but also very limited).

The old rule of thumb was something like 1-1.5 railguns / FBs per AV13/14 vehicle expected,  1.5~2 MPs / IC  per AV10-12 expected.  That was roughly how I built my lists, anyway. 

For Mech (assuming 2k pts), I would probably load up more on MPs + FBs (2-3 RGs plus at least maybe 6-8 MPs & 4-6 FBs).  For a more Static or Gunline list, I'd probably add more RGs via XV88's (maybe 2 RG per AV13-14). Str7 guns are always your friend (get as many as you can fit in after adding RGs). FBs are great filler weapons to add after you setup a strong base of RGs and MPs, imo.

FBs are great, but the trouble is they tend to come on squishy platforms. I'd say the best FB platform is easily the Piranha, followed by Crisis (but these are better with MPs). The rest simply aren't worth it, imo.


To answer your question, OP, 5 RGs is probably enough, given support from FBs and MPs, but definitely not enough on their own.
"Zomg, teh Tau are teh evil bastardz, they suk at life."
copy and paste this into your sig if your [enemies] hate Tau.

Narric

To the chaps suggestiong FB Piranha, remember he'll only be able to field a single unit of them, and they'll all have to target the same vehicle. thats a waste if its an easy target transport.

@Carrelio

I'd like it if you explained where your 5th RG comes from, as the restrictions on the Farsight list, give you a cap of 4 (1 RGHH, 3 BS).

My suggestion would be:
- Plasma/MIssile Battlesuits, 3x3, so 9 Suits in total
- all your Fire Warriors loaded into a Devilfish. Remember to give them a Markerlight, and if you can spare the points (and the parts) a couple Marker Drones. You could potentially upgrade all the Devilfish to have Smart Missile Systems instead of Drones (increases cost, but reduces potential KP to your opponent)
- Any Vehicles to take should have Seeker Missile for the anti-light tank potential they give.
- Fast Attack, I'd make sure you have your Pathfinders, and your unit of Piranha. Decide if you want anti-tank or anti-infantry when you build your Piranha, as mixed mission reduces their effectiveness. Pathfinders are brilliant for bringing extra ML hits, which are a must with the current Tau army list.
- Definately have your Broadsides and Railhead for Heavy support.

HQ will obviously include Farsight, but don't forget his 7-suit retinue, which will give you even more Plasma/MP. Your second HQ could be a Commander, also loaded out with Plasma/MP, plus his 2 Bodyguards.

Doing quick math thats:
13x Plasma Rifles
12x Missile Pods
22x Seeker Missiles
26x Markerlights (non replaced for Rail Rifles)
7x burst Cannons (not including piranha)
5x FB/BC Piranha
4x Railguns
10x Smart Missile Systems
60x Pulse Rifles

equating to between 188 and 272 wound causing shots, plus upto 26 boasts thanks to Markerlight hits.

I have no idea if this can all be squished into 2k pts. I think I'll look at that next.

Give me a few moments.

Alright. If you were to take everything I just said, that would give you nearly a 5k Apoc list :P It totals up to 4,454, or 4479 if you take Fusion Blasters instead of Burst Cannons on your Piranha.

Cutting the number of Fw Warrior units in half, knocks it down to 3569 (3594 with FB Piranha).

Not taking the unit of 7 Bodyguards for Farsight, brings it to 2865 (2890)

Meaning you need to figure out what isn't as essential, to bring it down to 2k from 2865pts.

My first thoughts would be to remove the Piranha, bringing it to 2465, then if you don't think you need 3 units of fire warriors, going bare minimum, you have a list at 2170pts

From here I'm not sure if I can go further, as it starts getting into personal taste. I'll include a copy of the army list for viewing.

Carrelio

Sorry, 5 is a typo, meant 4.

And that does tend to be the issue with Tau... you can never fit everything you want into a list.
As a side note, in the new Tau FAQ vehicle drones no longer give up an extra kill point unless you choose to break them off from the vehicle, so we don't have to pay for a warfish to prevent losing 3 killpoints when our transport full of fire warriors explodes.

For a Farsight bomb, I'd definitely run Fusion+Plasma for all the suits.  In the elites, I feel deathrains would be best.
I've often toyed with the idea of bringing a full load out of fire warriors... but in the end it's just not getting the job done.