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6th edition Tyranids.

Started by Scout Sergeant Mkoll, November 05, 2012, 02:39:20 PM

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Chicop76

The problem I am seeing with a winged flyrant is it weapons options. I will look but I swore venom canon was direct fire with glancing hits only and barbed strangeler always have been a large pie plate. Venom Cannon was in relation to haw many attacks the unit had as base as well if I remember correctly. I have the older nid dex, but being lazy at the moment.

Back to the flyrant ranged weapons is a huge problem. In swoop mode the only weapon it can fire is it's deathspitters I believe. Even so unless it is shooting as flyers or skimmers it only hits on 6s and against flyers or skimmers the strength of the weapon is rather ineffective. With 9 shots you will only glance once against 12 armour. Which it will take 3 turns to down a vendetta while you will have 9 twinlinked lascannon shots thrown upon you. Strength 9 assault x or two would make it a viable upgrade for a winged tyrant.

I am not really keen on making blast random. By doing so I would field hive guard more for example, because I know they are more reliable taking down a tank. Also having the zona and tyrant having to both roll random it will increase taking two tyrants and not bothering with the zonathorpe at all.

Broodlord I think he would be cool as a unique free slot HQ that is an Independant Character. Sadly I used him more in the older codex than I do now. The older broodlord was a threat. The newer broodlord is a sprinked down version. Although the possibility of having d3 strength, toughness, initiative, and attacks make the model alittle bit more threating. Strength 8 broodlord can be deadly to tanks on rending attacks with 17 armour pen possible.


Scout Sergeant Mkoll

Ok, Warlord Traits table has been amended. I will admit that the 6th is potentially nasty, but given that half the table is entirely circumstantial it should't be too bad.

More units and points costs will appear shortly, it's just that I've no internet at home so getting things posted up is more difficult than I'd like.

Quote from: Chicop76 on December 31, 2012, 08:17:42 PM
The problem I am seeing with a winged flyrant is it weapons options. I will look but I swore venom canon was direct fire with glancing hits only and barbed strangeler always have been a large pie plate. Venom Cannon was in relation to haw many attacks the unit had as base as well if I remember correctly. I have the older nid dex, but being lazy at the moment.

Back to the flyrant ranged weapons is a huge problem. In swoop mode the only weapon it can fire is it's deathspitters I believe. Even so unless it is shooting as flyers or skimmers it only hits on 6s and against flyers or skimmers the strength of the weapon is rather ineffective. With 9 shots you will only glance once against 12 armour. Which it will take 3 turns to down a vendetta while you will have 9 twinlinked lascannon shots thrown upon you. Strength 9 assault x or two would make it a viable upgrade for a winged tyrant.
It turns out you were correct, the venom cannon was AssaultX previously. I will take it back to similar then. I think Assault3 should do it. I will also keep the -1 to damage against closed-topped vehicles though.

Quote from: Chicop76 on December 31, 2012, 08:17:42 PM
I am not really keen on making blast random. By doing so I would field hive guard more for example, because I know they are more reliable taking down a tank. Also having the zona and tyrant having to both roll random it will increase taking two tyrants and not bothering with the zonathorpe at all.
A fair point, but remember, Zoans can be level 2 in these rules, and are more survivable. I'm against giving them specific powers though because, as I said, they always had to buy them and while Warp Blast was common, it was by no means automatic. That and I don't know of any other psyker (in 6th ed codexes) which comes with a specific power, Zopans already have Synapse.

Quote from: Chicop76 on December 31, 2012, 08:17:42 PM
Broodlord I think he would be cool as a unique free slot HQ that is an Independant Character. Sadly I used him more in the older codex than I do now. The older broodlord was a threat. The newer broodlord is a sprinked down version. Although the possibility of having d3 strength, toughness, initiative, and attacks make the model alittle bit more threating. Strength 8 broodlord can be deadly to tanks on rending attacks with 17 armour pen possible.
I'll consider taking him back to a 0-1 HQ. There are currently only 5 HQ options for 'Nids so there is a bit of space potentially.
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Quote from: Mabbz on June 03, 2011, 10:43:53 AM
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Arkitek

#17
I think the biggest deal is that they can be outswarmed by Imperial Guard if enough points are available. That doesn't seem right to me.

I see two possible solutions to this;

  • Guard-style platoons (though obviously, without the implied command structure. It'd maybe be a Warrior brood or Tervigon and 2-4 broods of termagants per troops choice)
  • Increase maximum Termagant brood size to 60. Increase maximum Hormagant brood size to 60. Increase maximum Ripper Swarm brood size to 18.

It's still a pretty solid codex, in my opinion. Not much else I'd change besides this;

  • Regeneration becomes It Will Not Die.
  • Each set of scything talons grants an additional Attack instead of its current effect.

EDIT: Oh, and bringing back the Red Terror, of course.
"Of course I forgive you. That is your god's function. Your crime is forgiven. However, your stupidity requires a response." - Leto Atreides II, God Emperor of Dune

Scout Sergeant Mkoll

I disagree. Hormagaunts are entirely worthless as they stand. Ork Boyz cost exactly the same but are vastly superior. Add in the fact that Tyranids lost a lot of their speed with the removal of Leaping, Genestealers can't charge from reserve and Hormagaunts losing Beast status and they've lost a lot of their combat ability.
6th edition makes combat tough to reach already, the Tyranid codex makes that even tougher, but 'Nids are supposed to be combat heavy in my opinion. Something Crudface neglected for the glory of his beloved Guard.
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Quote from: Mabbz on June 03, 2011, 10:43:53 AM
Mkoll wins.

Quote from: LordDemon
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to catch you.

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Chicop76

Quote from: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on May 20, 2013, 09:21:24 PM
I disagree. Hormagaunts are entirely worthless as they stand. Ork Boyz cost exactly the same but are vastly superior. Add in the fact that Tyranids lost a lot of their speed with the removal of Leaping, Genestealers can't charge from reserve and Hormagaunts losing Beast status and they've lost a lot of their combat ability.
6th edition makes combat tough to reach already, the Tyranid codex makes that even tougher, but 'Nids are supposed to be combat heavy in my opinion. Something Crudface neglected for the glory of his beloved Guard.

Hince why you see biovores and hiveguard all over the place.

6th edition hurted genestealers really bad. They have to sit and take it for the most part. No one will allow stealers to live. You kinda have to allow the other player to go first to be able to assault via infiltrate, which means turn 1 shooting and overwatch they rarely see combat, and losing the +4 save as well, they need it for 6th.

Homogaunts can still take poison which increases their output. Personally the tervigon is a much better choice.

Nids is still a tough army to beat if build right.


The Man They Call Jayne

Every game against Nids I have ever played (about 7 I think), has ended in them being tabled. I havnt even gone near them with the new Tau dex, but even the old one was doing the job just fine. It is clear they are not doing the job they are meant to be doing. They should be THE close combat army in the game, they should have minimal shooting option and ways to avoid being shot too much on the approach.
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Chicop76

Quote from: The Man They Call Jayne on May 20, 2013, 11:22:35 PM
Every game against Nids I have ever played (about 7 I think), has ended in them being tabled. I havnt even gone near them with the new Tau dex, but even the old one was doing the job just fine. It is clear they are not doing the job they are meant to be doing. They should be THE close combat army in the game, they should have minimal shooting option and ways to avoid being shot too much on the approach.


The Man They Call Jayne

Yes, thats what I said. . .
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Chicop76

Quote from: The Man They Call Jayne on May 21, 2013, 03:04:45 AM
Yes, thats what I said. . .

Dumb phone and site. That was like 5 paragraphs.

To get to the point I was saying that you can spam a lot of MC's that multiply themselves and your army. If your take 3 tervigons, flyrant and swarmlord that's 15 rolls on biomancy.

Yes you can shut them down with eldar or wolves.

Also I gave an example of how a tervigon can survive 12 re rollable lascannon shots due to cover and +5 feel no pain. Toughness 9 tervigon providing cover, more likely toughness 8.

Also with it will not die and regeneration it is easy to gain wounds back. A game a few weeks agao I kept getting all my wounds back.

After that I mentioned that the cover save vore due to improved fnp and it will not die is much better than it was in 5th. The invested time to kill that vore will allow your tervigons go unharmed for a turn or two.


Arkitek

Quote from: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on May 20, 2013, 09:21:24 PM
I disagree. Hormagaunts are entirely worthless as they stand. Ork Boyz cost exactly the same but are vastly superior. Add in the fact that Tyranids lost a lot of their speed with the removal of Leaping, Genestealers can't charge from reserve and Hormagaunts losing Beast status and they've lost a lot of their combat ability.
6th edition makes combat tough to reach already, the Tyranid codex makes that even tougher, but 'Nids are supposed to be combat heavy in my opinion. Something Crudface neglected for the glory of his beloved Guard.
Somehow, this entire time, I thought Hormagants were Beasts. So that'd come back, then.

What did Leaping do again? If I remember correctly it was something along the lines of "travel up to 3" vertically for free."
"Of course I forgive you. That is your god's function. Your crime is forgiven. However, your stupidity requires a response." - Leto Atreides II, God Emperor of Dune

Arkitek

Oh yeah, updated army special rules;

Instinctive Behaviour
All unengaged Tyranid models that are not Falling Back or have Gone to Ground must take a Leadership test at beginning of their Movement phase, henceforth referred to as an Instinct test. Units subject to Instinctive Behaviour are Stubborn.

Feeders
If the unit fails their Instinct test, they are subject to Rage, and may not fire any weapons during the Shooting phase. During the Movement phase, they must move as far as possible along the shortest path to the nearest enemy unit. During the Shooting phase, they must Run as far as possible along the shortest possible path towards the nearest enemy unit. During the Assault phase, if they could ever successfully charge the nearest enemy unit, they must attempt to do so. Feeders that have failed their Instinct test will never move nor Run into Impassable terrain nor within 1" of an enemy model.

Lurkers
If the unit fails their Instinct test, they may not move during the Movement phase, nor declare a charge during the Assault phase. During the Shooting phase, the unit must fire at the nearest visible enemy unit. If there are no units within range or line of sight of any ranged weapons the unit posesses, models in the unit it must instead Run as far as possible along the shortest possible route towards the nearest area terrain, and move into it, if possible. Lurkers that have failed their Instinct test will never move nor Run into Impassable terrain nor within 1" of an enemy model. If they are already in area terrain, they will not move at all unless forced to by some other rule.

Shadow in the Warp
Any unit within 12" of a creature with the Shadow in the Warp special rule (including that creature itself) that attempts to Deny the Witch adds +2 to their roll result, as if that unit contained a Psyker of higher Mastery Level than the model manifesting the Psychic power.

Synapse Creature
Units subject to Instinctive Behaviour that have at least one model within 12" of a creature with the Synapse Creature rule automatically pass their Instinctive Behaviour tests. Synapse Creatures are Fearless.




If that's enough detail to get us in trouble, my apologies in advance. No hard feelings if its removed.
"Of course I forgive you. That is your god's function. Your crime is forgiven. However, your stupidity requires a response." - Leto Atreides II, God Emperor of Dune

Scout Sergeant Mkoll

Quote from: Chicop76 on May 20, 2013, 09:36:04 PM
Nids is still a tough army to beat if build right.
Except you shouldn't have to use the 1 build to stand a chance, Tyranids are supposed to be the most adaptable race in the galaxy. Them being confined to 1 effective build is like Guardsmen specialising in elite troops. It's stupid.

Quote from: Arkitek on May 23, 2013, 12:55:25 PM
Somehow, this entire time, I thought Hormagants were Beasts. So that'd come back, then.

What did Leaping do again? If I remember correctly it was something along the lines of "travel up to 3" vertically for free."
No, Hormagaunts are now infantry and get 3D6 pick the highest for run. Which is pointless as you now can't Run and charge. Leaping used to basically mean you moved as Beasts. If I continue with this, which I may well do as there's interest now :P , then I would bring both those back because Warriors without Leaping are entirely pointless.

Are those the current versions of the special rules or suggestions for them?
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May the brave be remembered forever. Farewell our friends.

Quote from: Mabbz on June 03, 2011, 10:43:53 AM
Mkoll wins.

Quote from: LordDemon
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to catch you.

[img]http

Chicop76

Quote from: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on May 25, 2013, 10:41:23 AM
Quote from: Chicop76 on May 20, 2013, 09:36:04 PM
Nids is still a tough army to beat if build right.
Except you shouldn't have to use the 1 build to stand a chance, Tyranids are supposed to be the most adaptable race in the galaxy. Them being confined to 1 effective build is like Guardsmen specialising in elite troops. It's stupid.

Quote from: Arkitek on May 23, 2013, 12:55:25 PM
Somehow, this entire time, I thought Hormagants were Beasts. So that'd come back, then.

What did Leaping do again? If I remember correctly it was something along the lines of "travel up to 3" vertically for free."
No, Hormagaunts are now infantry and get 3D6 pick the highest for run. Which is pointless as you now can't Run and charge. Leaping used to basically mean you moved as Beasts. If I continue with this, which I may well do as there's interest now :P , then I would bring both those back because Warriors without Leaping are entirely pointless.

Are those the current versions of the special rules or suggestions for them?

I agree with you. I really miss my 4th edition codex a lot. Heck I miss sisters, grey knights, eldar prior editions like a druggy.

In 4th you could give your nid army some character. I decided to go the shooty routr and in 4th I was even able to out shoot most armies with the exception of tau. Everyone complained about a certain weapon only able to do glancing hits that was strength 10. In this edition it's actually a problem even with hull points. Last editions it was awesome. My concern wasto shot where I prevented the tank frm shooting back, which allowed other elements to engange the tank while it was vulnerable.

I miss my higher bs, warp blast all over. It was good times. The dakkafex was very op. I can see why they did what they did. Even so I didn't run 6 carnifexes. I had warriors raining down strength 5 blast shots with a large blast that did awesome, in 5th where any part of thetemplate hi it was awesome. Miss my old deathspitters.

Also I miss my re rolling to wound gaunts at range. They was as good as spine gaunts vs hordes, but was awesome against higher toughness models.

If anythin I think I miss the most a way for nids to disrupt tanks. That they can fire something that stops the tank from doing something,but don't destroy it. That's what the other elements in the army can do.

Oh and the +2 deny the witch on the warp storm thing is too much. Nids have too many shadow of the warp creatures where it's easy to give tha to the whole army.


Arkitek

Quote from: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on May 25, 2013, 10:41:23 AMAre those the current versions of the special rules or suggestions for them?
My 6th edition interpretation of the army special rules.
"Of course I forgive you. That is your god's function. Your crime is forgiven. However, your stupidity requires a response." - Leto Atreides II, God Emperor of Dune

Chicop76

About to play a nid game today. Trying to find models hear and there and was looking over the biovore. I forgot that you no longer can deep strike spores on top of the army. I have to look at my old codex again since I remember I didn't use the biovore, but used to deep strike spores.

Looking at how it plays out now I think it's not as good. My personal gripe the mines shouldn'tgive out points.

Looking at the biovore I realized that you have only one mine now. I missed the anti vehicle, and marine mines. I mainly used the anti-vehicle which was more disruptive than any thing. I just think we should go back to differant mine types.

Also it would be cool to give the pyrovore and upgrade. Either make him srength 6 ap 3 which is fine for him in a drop pod. Actually no. Give him the 3 flamer options that the tyrant and tyrannofex can do. If not give him independant character statis which either change would make that model usable.