Codex: Old Ones

[Charistoph]

Okay, I have soft spot for the Lizardmen of Fantasy, after all, who doesn't love dinosaurs?  So, I want to generate a 40K codex to represent them and would like help from the community here to decide on a direction.  I want to basically bring the Fantasy Army Book forward, but with sufficient changes to allow them to still be 40K.  I don't want this to be a 100% port.  It just won't work well, I think.  So on to some helpful questions.

FIRST QUESTION:  Should they be completely biological, with no vehicles and completely rely on organic constructs for their "vehicles", or convert some/all of the Monsters and mounts in to Walkers, Tanks, Bikes, etc.?

SECOND QUESTION:  I have a chart written up in how I think the Fantasy units should pair up, but would like your all's input to help keep a cohesive mix.  Which would you choose for these units?

Unit	Fantasy Slot	Fantasy Type	40K Slot	40K Type
Slann Mage-Priest	Lord	Infantry (Character)	HQ	Infantry (Character)
Oldblood	Lord	Infantry (Character)	HQ	Infantry (Character)
Scar-Veteran	Hero	Infantry (Character)	HQ	Infantry (Character)
Skink Priest	Hero	Infantry (Character)	HQ	Infantry (Character)
Skink Chief	Hero	Infantry (Character)	HQ	Infantry (Character)
Saurus Warriors	Core	Infantry	Troops	Infantry
Skink Cohort	Core	Inf, Mon Inf	Troops	Infantry
Skink Skirmishers	Core	Infantry	Fast	Infantry
Temple Guard	Special	Infantry	Elites	Infantry
Jungle Swarms	Special	Swarm	Fast	Beast
Chameleon Skinks	Special	Infantry	Elites	Infantry
Cold One Riders	Special	Cavalry	Fast	Cavalry
Kroxigor	Special	Mon Inf	Heavy	Infantry
Terradon Riders	Special	Mon Cav (Fly)	Fast	Jet Pack Cavalry
Stegadon	Special	Monster	Heavy	MC
Bastildadon	Special	Monster	Heavy	MC
Ripperdactyl Riders	Special	Mon Cav (Fly)	Elites	Jet Pack Cavalry
Ancient Stegadon	Rare	Monster	Elites	MC
Salamander Pack	Rare	Mon Beast	Heavy	Beast
Razordon Pack	Rare	Mon Beast	Heavy	Beast
Troglodon	Rare	Monster	Elites	MC

THIRD QUESTION:  I'm looking at the following for the army's special rules, and yes, they will be largely translated over.  What is your input?

Cold-Blooded -*used for most units
Whenever a model with this special rule takes a Leadership test, it rolls and additional dice and discards the highest result.

Predatory Fighter -*Mostly for Saurus Units
Whenever a model with this special rule rolls a 6 To Hit in close combat, it immediately makes another Attack; roll To Hit and To Wound as normal.  Attacks generated by the Predatory Fighter special rule do not generate further Attacks.

Aquatic -*Mostly on Skink Units
Models with this rule treat any water features as open ground when they move.  In addition, these models have the Stealth (Water) special rule.

Scaly Skin -*Mostly on Saurus Units
Models with this rule add +1 to their Armour Save Rolls. -example: Saurus Warriors will have a 4+ Armour Save, but will be successful on a 3+, though, AP: 4 will still disallow the Armour Save  OR reroll failed Armour Save rolls.

Edit: Decided on the types and slots of the Army Book elements.  Should Scaly Skin be an Armour Save modifier or a reroll?

[Narric]

If the unit would work without becoming a machine, then keep if an "Organic" type.
- So Cold One Riders would remain Cavalry.
- For the Stegadon and Bastildadon, I'd say go with Monster.
- Terrado & Ripperdactyl Riders would become Jump Cavalry.
- The Ancient Stegadon and Troglodon would be MCs, and the two sarms Beasts, and depending on their size have the "Swarm" special rule _{(IDK what the unit/model looks like, so I'm going solely by names there )}.

The rules are also fairly decent. Scaly Skin may get confusing though

What will you do for more Sci-fi-y weapons? Stolen Imperial gear?

[Charistoph]

Okay, good to know.  Just as an FYI, I wasn't intending this to be a 100% port.  What I mean by that is that, for example, Cold One Riders would be literally riding bikes instead of two-legged dinosaurs, Terradon Riders would be riding sky-bikes like Eldar, Stegadons would be a four-legged Walking Tank closer to a War Walker than a Wraith Lord, etc.  But that's only if we wanted to show a mix of organic and technological.  I was more curious if we should intentionally make their warfare as organic as possible for ground troops.  It could easily go either way.

I understand Skaly Skin may get confusing.  But I wanted to give Saurus have Power Armour without actually giving them Power Armour.  Perhaps a rerollable Armour Save instead?

Weapon systems I intend to be a mix of Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Ork equipment.  The theory being that the Eldar and Krork's weaponry started out as that of the Old One's first soldiers.  Skinks will largely use Poisoned weapons similar to Dark Eldar Splinter weapons (though, less powerful), and Sauruses will have Shuriken-style weapons.

Some stats will be a straight port over, but others will have to be altered.  For example, Kroxigors don't have any BS, but I intend for them to be the Heavy Weapon wielders of Skink Cohorts and in their own squads, so their BS would be raised to a 2 or 3, depending on how the Heavy Weapons are set up.

[Tom]

I wouldn't get rid of too many of the organic models if I were you. Futuristic dinosaur-riding warriors is totally in keeping with 40k fluff and could fit into the rules system too. As a starting point I'd use Promethean Sun to get ideas about rules possibilities and reasonable power levels. I'd also suggest having skink-priests and slann as very powerful biomancy and divination psykers to buff otherwise squishy organic creatures rather than either making the creatures more powerful than makes sense or turning them into mechanical constructions.

[Charistoph]

I am intending the models to NOT be naked. Their natural armor may be fine for facing primitives, but would mean little on the modern battlefield. It would make for a greater modelling challenge, but worth it if the codex works out as a written project.

The trick is to make them usable without losing the character. For example, a Kroxigor may be able to carry a Starcannon, but if I set them to being BS 2, would mean little to it unless the ROF was increased to compensate, prices reduced, range reduced (they shoot like Orks), or other factors. It's part of the challenge of this project.

Slann will be able to pick from any rulebook Discipline, and I currently have them starting at Psyker Mastery Level 4.  Biomancy and Divination will be fine for the Skinks (no real weather Psyker power), but they will be Level 1 at base, with an option for Level 2.

I will keep the Army Book elements as organics, but I think I will have to put some inorganic things in there, as spaceborne Transports, if nothing else.  Maybe introduce the Quetzel as a Flying Monstrous Creature to act as their "Fighter"?

[Narric]

I kinda want to try and design what their Flyers and other techy vehicles would be XD

A Lvl 4 Psyker would have to be pricy, and possibly a SC for it to really work. Why not have unnamed Slann as Lvl3 with a Character ported over to be a Lvl4?
As to Weather changing Psychic Powers, I merely point to Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Chaos Space marines, and Eldar who all have a unique set of Psychic Powers they alone have access to. Why wouldn't the Old Oes have something similar?

For units like Kroxigor, you could say that they carry equipment which aims for them, and call them BS3 or give Twin-linked, Or just make them BS3 anyway, and sya that as a Space Fairing race, they all have some ability with Fire-arms, no matter how large and/or brutish they may be in appearence.

[Charistoph]

Well, Slann are the most powerful Wizards in the Fantasy universe, and start as the most basic as Level 4 Wizards.  They are 'weak' only because they are so focused on other-worldly affairs.  And yes, they also start out quite expensive.

As for the weather reference, I meant in the rulebook.  Skink Priests have access to Beast and Heaven Lores.  Beast is quite obvious, and Biomancy is a bit of a mix of Life and Beasts.  Heavens is part weather, part astrology, and part cosmic magic.  Divination fits in the Astrology part easily enough, but the rulebook has no other links.

Twin-Linking Kroxigor weapons could work.  They are quite big an burly and could handle a double-barrelled heavy weapon...  I'm looking at it from how they were developed.  The Skinks are the most populous, but they aren't designed to be fighters.  Kroxigor are just brute laborers, with little brain power, but hey, so are Ogryns, too, I guess.