Daemons with Allies losing turn 1?

[Arguleon-veq]

Ive looked through the FAQ's and cant find anything to counter this if a rules lawyer brings it up.

If Daemons take an allied detatchment. If the Daemons go second and their allies are wiped out before the Daemons get to deep strike im pretty sure rules as written means that the Daemon player loses before they ever get to bring their Daemons in.

To make matters worse, Im pretty sure that RAW means that Daemons flat lose if they go second. There is a rule stating that if you have nothing on the table you lose and Daemons will have nothing. There is nothing in the Daemon codex or FAQ that I can see that counters this new rule. You could even go so far as to say that they auto lose no matter what as nothing is on the table at the start of their first turn even if they go first.

Now, I cant see anybody trying to pull the later but with allies I can see plenty of people trying to pull it. Im hoping someone here has spotted something I havent that would let us argue against this nonsense.

[The Man They Call Jayne]

I was under the impression that the Empty Table rule only comes in from turn two onward? If you lost everything in turn 1 and still had half an army in reserve before you could even bring them in it would be pretty gittish.

[Arguleon-veq]

I hope it does, maybe I just missed that I will have to re-check.

[silverfuge]

No deff counts on turn 1. happened at our club and I checked with GW.

[Arguleon-veq]

Which actually means then that thanks to a shoddy FAQ if you play Daemons, you auto lose every game. lol

[Narric]

A simple solution for Daemon players is to invest in a small Allied detachment of either Chaos Marines or IG. Chaos Marines are fluffy, whilst IG can represent a Radical/Heretical Inquisitor.

OK, if it doesn't get errata'd out, then GW are being sly gits to pretty much force Daemon players into buying non-daemon units and codexi.

[Chicop76]

I thought this was the cas until I found the section that state you lose if you have no troops. The effect happens at the end of turn one. The daemons enter via deep strike on their turn before the end of turn one. If the came down in the second turn this would be the case.

I will find my book since I know exactly where this rule is since this was or has been an issue for me in a few games I played.

Looking at I again i t happens at the end of any game turn.

If you look on pg. 9 it explains a game turn and a player turn.

After reading that part you will see it happens after both players have done each player turn.

I was under the impression that the Empty Table rule only comes in from turn two onward? If you lost everything in turn 1 and still had half an army in reserve before you could even bring them in it would be pretty gittish.

If you lose everything at the end of turn one with models in reserve you lose the game. Hence you want to make sure you have enough turn one models and first turn deep striking daemons to survive turn one.

Another reason why you have to play units like flamers and fateweaver to do as much damage as possible so you do not lose in the first turn.