News:

For the most up to date reports about what is going on with the forum, and the latest topics of interest, throw us a like on Facebook, and if you're wanting some light banter with the seasoned and spiced members, join the Second Sphere Members Group.

Main Menu

Effective Allies

Started by Arguleon-veq, January 04, 2013, 11:51:02 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Arguleon-veq

I think there are a few great ally choices out there that most armies can take and that seriously help almost any force they are put into. So I thought we would make a list of some units that are great for adding to another force.

1 - The Eldar Solution

Now, I think Eldar on their own are pretty terrible but they are a fantastic ally choice. Here are some of the things that many armies are seriously lacking in:


  • Anti Air
  • Psychic Defense
  • Fast Scoring

Eldar solve all of this for a tiny cost.

A basic farseer with runes of warding will give us the best psychic defense in the game for less than 100 points. Obviously this isnt a good idea if your main force is wanting to use powers of its own as the runes of warding will also make you test on 3D6 but if you arent, this is the guy for you.

For anti air you have fire dragons, more specifically the exarch. When he takes tank hunters and crack shot and mans a quadgun, he should take down any flyer of AV11 or less the second it hits the table. The above farseer can even help your quadgun survive by using fortune on it.

You obviously need to take a troop choice when taking allies. For Eldar we can either take 5 Rangers for 95 points who can happily sit in heavy cover on an objective. Or we can take 3 bikes, for a paltry 66 points these guys can sit in reserve or hide and then contest or take an objective whenever they want due to the fact that they can move 48'' in a single turn.

2 - The Lone Wolves

Space Wolves provide us again with that very important psychic defense.

A rune priest will only set you back 100 points if you want to leave him naked and this will get you great psychic defense and access to some pretty great powers too. If you are facing Nids or Necrons you can use the Space Wolf lore and take Jaws. If not you can always take Divination to support the rest of the army. Failing that, if you are with an ally who you can not cast powers on then you always have Living Lightning that you can use from some nice cover at extreme range.

From the Elite slot we can take lone wolves. For 85 points we can get a lone wolf in terminator armour and armed with a chainfist and stormshield. These guys can wade through firepower, take out walkers, characters and monsterous creatures. They can also tie up units for turn after turn. They are great in any list but doubly so for lists who dont really have much combat potential.

Now we need to take a troop choice, you can either keep it cheap and opt for 5 grey hunters with a Plasma or Melta which will cost 80-85 points. Or you can just take 2 full squads of grey hunters which are probably the most points effecient troops in the game.
X-Wing Tournaments;
1st - 38
11th - 33

Chicop76

I wanted to point out that the dark reaper exarch on a quad gun can do the same and get more shots out of it.

I think sisters for guard makes a good ally choice for them. Jacobs for example can give a guard mob fnp and extra attacks. Also they provide a more armoured option than your veterans.



Vyper

Imperial guard present some very cheap support options. Hydras for one are a fantastically priced anti aircraft choice. Just hide them behind some cover/an aegis defence line with camo netting and you're sorted.

Not so much in the fast scoring, but defiantly fast removal of enemies from objectives, in particular Hellhound variants and sentinels.
Here's a quick 510pt ally list which covers two(ish) of the points you referenced for the Eldar. Guard are particularly useful as support for melee focused armies.

HQ: Company Command Squad, Vox Caster - 55pts
Troops: Infantry Platoon
                 PCS, Vox Caster - 35pts
                 Infantry Squad, Vox Caster - 55pts
                 Infantry Squad, Vox Caster - 55pts
Fast Attack: Scout Sentinel Squad (*3), Heavy Flamers - 120pts
Heavy Support: Hydra Flak Tank Battery (*2), Camo netting - 190pts

Gives you a squishy base of infantry to sit back on home objectives while your main army advances, the Sentinels can outflank ontop of an enemy objective and toast it and the Hydras can pop enemy fliers with decent regularity. A couple more points here and there could make the command squads more useful or maybe drop some decent long range fire support into the infantry platoon.

In my opinion, I believe that guard are one of the best factions that can be taken as allies.

Arguleon-veq

#3
The Dark Reaper Exarch is pretty poor for the quadgun when compared to the Fire Dragon Exarch. The minimum points cost for the reapers would be 147 compared to the dragons 112. The reapers can either get an extra shot OR crackshot. The dragons will have crack shot AND tank hunters which is by far the most important upgrade, something the reapers cant take.

I agree that Sisters are great for Guard, I think its even better the other way around though so that you can take a guard horde and then add to it Jacobus and then have Celestine doing her usual never die tricks.

I agree that some Guard elements are great as allies Vyper, especially those Hydras. I think the fast attack choice is much better when you take a Vendetta instead though and a Primaris psyker is great to have in amongst a platoon horde to boost them up with Biomancy. Enfeebling a unit and the getting first rank second rank fire on a unit with all those lasguns is always very dangerous.
X-Wing Tournaments;
1st - 38
11th - 33

BigToof

Hi All,
Couple of little points before this thread gets too old...
Lone Wolves can only be taken one per slot, so that only gives you one wolf...
And one HQ choice lets you have two choices, so you could do double Rune Priest or whatever you like :)

Orks can be pretty easy plug and play as well.

Big Mek and 30 Shoota Boyz offers up a lot of bodies with a 5+ cover save anywhere you want it.

Very nice for holding a position or keeping you from being wiped first turn before things come in from reserve (i.e. you're playing Vendetta-heavy Guard or the like).

They can also make trouble just by being around, as they can deny certain flight paths for flyers and also force your opponent to deal with them before they just sit there, shooting at things with abhorrent accuracy but a high rate of fire...



Best,
-BT
BigToof Points:

Cammerz: 8
Waaaghpower: 1
The Man They Call Jayne: 3
Mabbz: 6
Archon Sharrek: 3

Arguleon-veq

Not sure why I thought you could take 3 lone wolves for 1 elite choice  ???, probably just so used to seeing 3 now that scouts are pretty poor for wolves.

With the rune priests though there is a lot of debate about if an allied space wolf force actually gets to use the extra hq rules, its to do with the wording of the leaders of the pack rule being about a 'space wolf army' and when they are allied the primary force is the actual army. I would let people use it but there are a lot of people that wont. Unless they have finally FAQ'd it? which they really need to do if they havent.
X-Wing Tournaments;
1st - 38
11th - 33

Chicop76

#6
Quote from: Arguleon-veq on January 09, 2013, 08:54:15 PM
Not sure why I thought you could take 3 lone wolves for 1 elite choice  ???, probably just so used to seeing 3 now that scouts are pretty poor for wolves.

With the rune priests though there is a lot of debate about if an allied space wolf force actually gets to use the extra hq rules, its to do with the wording of the leaders of the pack rule being about a 'space wolf army' and when they are allied the primary force is the actual army. I would let people use it but there are a lot of people that wont. Unless they have finally FAQ'd it? which they really need to do if they havent.

If it is one hq slot you can take two. If it is only one hq choice that you can take one. I believe it is slot because my daemons have the same issue. Not to mention honor guard, inquisitor squad, etc.

I remember the psycher battle squad and Calladius combo is back. I was curious about Necrons using the same tactic which they can. Basically the psycher battle squad lowers leadership to two. Than you have your cryptek drop a template on that squad. Let's say it's nob bikers you will be wounding on 2s inflicting instant death. There is arguement rather they would be 2 or have the leadership of the squadsize. In the case of most models the attack would cause instant death. The great part about necrons is you can field 10 crypteks with this ability max.

Another psyker battle squad combo is with the changling. Drop a changling by a very shooty unit like a full squad of fire dragons. Have battle squad lower leadership to 2. This will prevent them from shooting. If they decide to shoot anyway than more than likely the will blow up their own vehicles or kill their own troops nearby.


Arguleon-veq

You will find there is a lot of debate about it, the daemon hq rule is worded differently as it is simply half a HQ choice for daemons, for Wolves the rule doesnt work like that. I think it should and would allow it but there are plenty of people out there that wont and the rules are not fully clear either way. I think the battle squad is still great, it deals with Kairos, it deals even with guard hordes with ATSKNF if they are near a table edge.

If it does get FAQ'd that I can have 2 Wolf HQ's in an allied detatchment I will make Guard my main force so I can split my Vendettas and then rather than one of my Fang squads I will take a battle psyker squad.
X-Wing Tournaments;
1st - 38
11th - 33

Chicop76

I was readingsome of the old stuff and stumbled across an ideal some one had. Not my ideal and didn't want to bring up a really old topic. I figure that person will g hey that is my ideal. Anyway I figured away for it to work properly although it is a lot of effort to pull off.

Part 1: this requires a MC. The person mentioned a Talos. The key factor is that it has fear.

Part 2: Lilith with her normal attacks and plus 8 thanks to the unit falling prey to fear. This is his wet dream combo that makes him smile. The problem is said unit have to fail leadership. As it is now really hard to pull off.

Part 3: this is my advice is to take guard allies or vice versa. You have a psyker battle squad lower leadership to troublesome unit. Having leadership of 2 they fail against fear and now have weaponskill of 1. This is where Lilith comes in with 6 attacks on the charge with 8 extra attacks for a grand total of 15 attacks.

My thoughts:

Now looking at guard and daemons as allies more than ever now. Originally I was only looking at the changling combo, but now as I snicker. I see something far better. All daemons have fear and the psyker battle squad can be used to lower leadership to 2.

A good use of said power could be very useful on any Daemon unit. However it gets even better.

I never really liked Skarbrad, but now he makes me wet. With him on the field all units re roll to hit. This is where it gets good. For example let's say I am playing against orcs 30 orcs, I am aware of the debate of leadership 2 or 10. Anyway I lower the squad to leadership 2. I assault first with a 50 man guard squad and than with for giggles 5 horrors. The 5 horrors will lower the Orcs ws to 1 thanks to the psyker battle squad. With Skarbrand giving off his aura you now have 100 guard attacks that re roll to hit on 3s for 88 hits which is much better that the 50 normal. Instead of 40 orc hits back you would get like 30 hits back which they re roll on 5s.

The reason why I said horrors is that it is unexpected and will through your opponent off. Straken becomes even more deadly with his modifiers and ogryn will turn into nasty beat sticks.

The silliness doesn't end there I am affraid. Daemon host in an allied Grey Knights army is now an awesome unit. Look at the Dreadknight. Yes it has fear too. If not the host than you can use the Dreadknight for sure. Makes the Dreadknight nasty with re rolling on 3s and wounds against anything that fails fear with that unit hitting back on 5s, glorius.

Avatar of Khaine with Eldar wouldn't be too good of a choice due to it being ws 10 already. However ajourning units will be boss. Not only that hitting a doomed unit will feel very good.