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Second Sphere Announcements, News and Community => News, Rumours and Trading => Topic started by: Narric on February 03, 2013, 12:50:24 pm

Title: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Narric on February 03, 2013, 12:50:24 pm
Surprised no one else has posted this.

Rumours posted to Faeit 212 imply Tau is getting some interesting new additions to their army list. One is described as a "Tau Dreadknight" and a Kroot Monstrous Creature is supposedly in the mix also.

Go read up at the rumour mill on Natfka:
http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/the-latest-in-tau-rumors-kroot-monsters.html
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Chicop76 on February 03, 2013, 01:07:28 pm
Surprised no one else has posted this.

Rumours posted to Faeit 212 imply Tau is getting some interesting new additions to their army list. One is described as a "Tau Dreadknight" and a Kroot Monstrous Creature is supposedly in the mix also.

Go read up at the rumour mill on Natfka:
http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/the-latest-in-tau-rumors-kroot-monsters.html

I seriously doubt that walker have those stats. It's like a wraithlord on crack. All the stats are realy high except the int 2  :facepalm001:.

The only thing that I can compare that walker to is the daemon prince which did get a stat increase. Even if it's strength 6 with ap- it's really really out there.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Cammerz on February 03, 2013, 01:21:57 pm
The idea of new battlesuit models doesn't surprise me but it does scare my bank account. If they're really good then I'll want to trade up for them. The 2+ save for the battlesuits also doesn't surprise me, its the Iridium armour but no longer special issue, they'll probably let more suits use the special issue kit now, and maybe have a new round of special issue wargear.

BS4 Tau sounds good, I hope my army list can afford to include that option. I probably won't be getting the 'Dreadknight' or the Greater Knarloc (I assume this is what the Kroot beast will be).

That Sky Ray rule sounds like the sort of thing you use when a certain model just has to die, no matter what. I presume it'll be one-use-only and people will be targeting Marneus Calgar and Abbadon with it.

Overall they sound like an interesting group of upgrades (and the 'Dreadknight' thing makes me worry that Ward has gotten his hands on the Tau so we can only hope that he hasn't ruined our existing background completely). Obviously there's no release date, or even what quarter of what year, so we may be waiting some time for this lot to appear, although the flyer which we should be getting soon (maybe March) might tide us over 'till then.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Narric on February 03, 2013, 01:32:36 pm
Chicop, that Tauknight doesnt have "very high" stats. WS, BS and Ld are all pretty moderate, yes, his Attacks are high for a Tau model, but chances are that can be thought of as one attack per limb. For damn sake man, it will fall to Medium level firepower, which usually puts out high numbers of AP4 or 3 shots. At most, it will be a distraction to take enemy firepoewr power away from other units.

Str6 doesn't really mean F-all. So we'll be wounding Space Mainres on a 2+, big whoop, big deal. All battlesuits have been smacking Marines around on a 3+ for years already, and this guy probably won't have any backup to really be effective in Close combat. Which is good. He'll probably be just a large weapon platform in general use, and his Strength just reflects how big the damn machine will be.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: InsaneTD on February 03, 2013, 01:43:23 pm
Interesting stuff all told, not sure I like the new tau walker idea though. Hopefully it won't be completely silly.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on February 03, 2013, 02:11:58 pm
20 points per model for a 2+ save? I dont see that as worth is really. Thats 60 points per elite squad. Plus 20 points for a 4++ that adds up FAST.

Im hoping that we dont end up being "forced" to go super elite just to be competitive.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: InsaneTD on February 03, 2013, 02:26:26 pm
It's only an upgrade. I don't think it will see much table time. If it's got the same restrictions it does now (movement), I won't be using it.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Narric on February 03, 2013, 02:52:31 pm
To risk going into wishlisting here, I kinda never understood the Iridium armour's limitation, especially when compared to the Artificer Armour upgrade of Space Marines (all flavours that have it and similar). SMs pay the exact same price for the exact same thing, yet have no penalties. This makes even less sense, when most descriptions of Art-Armour only say it looks prettier and older then regular power armour. By that logic, "Pretty Marines" would have 2+ Armour saves across the list. Iridium Armour specifies that it is special improvements to the armour. If I was adding heavier armour to my Battlesuit, I'd request stronger actuators and other moving magubines, so I don't lose any mobility.[/rant]

Looking back onot the rumour posting, I'll give my thoughts.

New Battlesuits will be cool, as I'd use the newer suits on Team Leaders and characters.

The Sky Ray and Fire Warriors Options and buffs sound pretty good, but I hope they cost then approprietly. Can't help but think some die-hard Space Marine player will cry "Cheese" at the Sky Ray "Orbital Blast" ability. I'll probably go for BS4 Fire Warriors, as I often have minimal FWs on the table as is (More a collection restriciton then choice).

The Kroot Creature seems to be having trouble fighting into the list. Being either to easy to kill, or not used all that much, and was/is overcosted.

Interesting to see Kroot gaining Furious Charge, Move through Cover, and 6+ save. If thats for the same price, then they may see more use than just a meatshield for Fire Warriors.

The Battlesuit 2+ Armour sounds to good to be true. I can't help but think it would be a Special Characters added benefit, rather then a standard armywide upgrade, similar to "Veterans of the Long War."

Hmm, either I didn't read it properly, or the Dreadnight does have a 2+ save as standard. I can now somewhat understand Chicops reaction, though still think he was overexagerating its OP nature.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Chicop76 on February 03, 2013, 04:43:40 pm
My problem with the walker is this. Let's compare it with other 40 k models

1. Toughness 8: what else has that. The wraithlord and that is that, so Tau will have the second toughness model in the game. T6 no problem, but 8 :derp:

/4+ not only it's the toughess model out there execpt one it even has the best saves fo that type. Looking at t6 models with multiple wounds only models with a +2 are tyranofex and dreadknight and they don't have a +4 invul

Not going into what it can do. It is already :facepalm001:
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Narric on February 03, 2013, 04:47:01 pm
Hmm, i can see you point. My only counter-point is its only in Playtesting right now, not set in stone. So we may see its defensive stats reduced, as and when the codex comes out.

Just a point. How does it compare to the actually Dreadknight? I don't have the Grey Knight Codex, so I don't know that info.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on February 03, 2013, 05:18:53 pm
"Toughness 8: what else has that. The wraithlord and that is that, so Tau will have the second toughness model in the game. T6 no problem, but 8"

And. . .?

The Eldar have the toughest model in the game and thats just insane! Guard can field more men than anyone else! Thats not right!

Why should it matter if the Tau have the second toughest model? Somebody has to.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Chicop76 on February 03, 2013, 05:28:41 pm
Hmm, i can see you point. My only counter-point is its only in Playtesting right now, not set in stone. So we may see its defensive stats reduced, as and when the codex comes out.

Just a point. How does it compare to the actually Dreadknight? I don't have the Grey Knight Codex, so I don't know that info.

Without looking at the book it's similar it stats but ws5 t6 I4. It comes with str 10 powerfist or it can get a sword that does the same as a wraith sword, but it re rolls to wound as well. It has a +5 invulnerable and toughness 6. At base it cost around the same as a decked out Tau Transport. Upgrades are retarded expensive whic is a poor attemt to balance that model.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Narric on February 04, 2013, 04:04:22 pm
Some more info from natfka:
http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/more-tau-rules-wargear-and-krootox-giant.html

New wargear, and a Tau MC :P
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Chicop76 on February 04, 2013, 04:23:07 pm
Depending on the rider the giant krotoox doesn't seem as bad as the OP makes it sound. Seeing that most creatures are around the same cost and stats and that Tau doesn't have one it's not bad. My question is how easy is it to kill the rider which is the real issue.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Mabbz on February 04, 2013, 05:17:19 pm
Wait, a special rule called "Implosion" increases the explosion radius? That doesn't make much sense.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Narric on February 04, 2013, 05:36:52 pm
Wait, a special rule called "Implosion" increases the explosion radius? That doesn't make much sense.
Three words :P

"ITS GAMES WORKSHOP!!!"

I noticed that and had a chuckle. Still, that weapon system sounds cool :D
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: knightperson on February 04, 2013, 07:31:19 pm
Wait, a special rule called "Implosion" increases the explosion radius? That doesn't make much sense.

The rule could be renamed as this is still experimental. And a violent enough implosion would tend to resemble an explosion as shrapnel still goes flying. But I'm thinking more of the "birth of a star" scene at the end of 2010: whatever the subtitle is, where Jupiter shrinks a bit before igniting. Now if the Tau were firing short-lived singularity, mini black holes at the enemy tanks, THAT would be cool!

Since we're sort of on the subject, here's my list of things that need to be in the new Tau Codex for me to consider coming back to the game.

Kroot hounds with the option of assault grenades.

Kroot Gnarloc rider cavalry (whether they're actually cavalry or classed something else is less important, but I want mounted kroot!)

The Great Gnarloc for our Monstrous Creature since we're about the only race that doesn't have either a Monstrous Creature or a Walker option.

Point cost adjustments, of course.

A buff for rail weapons: either the ability to hit multiple targets or a penalty to the cover saves.

I would like pulse rifles to have a chance at defeating AV12+ vehicles, whether that's with the addition of Tank Hunter, something like the old Necron Gauss effect, Rending, Strength 6, or whatever. Or another idea, what about an alternate firing mode that is a Heavy weapon with higher strength? Maybe each squad only carries one "hot-shot" clip per game.

Seeker missiles and markerlights need clean-up. And especially need a reversal of the stupid ruling that they need 6's to hit a flyer. Seekers should also have an area effect option like a frag missile.

Current Special Issue gear should be an option on ALL shas'vre and above, or at least one per squad rather than one per army.

Some kind of psychic defense even if we don't get our own psykers.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Narric on February 04, 2013, 09:11:38 pm
KP, this thread is meant to be about the rumours newly circulating about Tau, not wishlisting.

I understand why you're wishlisting but this isn't quite the place for it. I'm sure a new Second Sphere Fan-dex project could work. We now have 6th ed Codexi to take notes from. If you're interested, send me a PM and you could have a look at my Fan-dex and give your opinions on it. I've mostly just revamped most of the current codex stuff and I'm starting to consider what to add.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: knightperson on February 04, 2013, 09:48:17 pm
But I want my wishlist to be the new rumors!

But seriously, you're right. And I do know better.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Chicop76 on February 04, 2013, 10:30:49 pm
You miss winged kroot and the differant glands you knighty person.

The implosion I was wondering how a shrinking blast would expand out and cause more damage. It might be the effect of ever thing getting sucked in than oppose to taking shrapnel.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Narric on February 04, 2013, 10:35:03 pm
Why can't Natfka have restraint on posting new things :P

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/tau-stealth-suits-sky-ray-and-more.html

BS4 is a Shas'o upgrade, not a sqaud upgrade. Heh, now we have reason to use a Shas'O. :P

No mention of a change to Seeker Missiles, except possibly hitting on a 5+, not a 6.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: InsaneTD on February 04, 2013, 11:59:52 pm
Might be shells detonating or power cells being raptured that cause a catastrophic secondary explosion?
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on February 05, 2013, 09:23:10 am
I like the idea that Markerlight now work for all other units until the end of the phase. I never really got how 3 markerlights could make you even more accurate than 1 AND reduce cover by 1. If you can see 3 you can see one and the effect would be the same.

This seems to be a more in line laser designator. And gives +1 to snapfire against Fliers. Even better.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Narric on February 05, 2013, 02:12:43 pm
http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/tau-flyer-uber-suit-and-pyschic-defense.html

Ethereals are still in

Kroot are getting love, and Vespid too. Some Kroot units are non-Troops aswell :o

Straight up quoting
Quote
Psykers-defense: All Tau have some base immunity to psychic powers, and thus any Tau unit can deny the witch, with the suits gaining an  improvement to this roll.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on February 05, 2013, 02:51:13 pm
That Ubersuit does sound like fun. Lots of fun special abilities. Although why you would forgoe movement and shooting to gain a 2++ save is beyond me. All that means is that you never do anything with it and it can be ignored.

The 13 13 12 flyer? Sounds like they are bringing the Orca to the table. Hopefully with a better model than the flying brick.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: InsaneTD on February 05, 2013, 03:08:32 pm
Why are they changing Knarlocs? Why? Knarloc Riders would of been awesome.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Cammerz on February 05, 2013, 03:17:19 pm
I like the sound of a tiny Vespid flyer, just to have a couple of those whizzing round would be quite fun.

As long as the Knarloc-type creature isn't just called 'Giant Krootox' I'll be happy.

I also like the idea that you can make Crisis Suits a Troop choice, maybe for Farsight lists.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Chicop76 on February 05, 2013, 03:45:14 pm
That Ubersuit does sound like fun. Lots of fun special abilities. Although why you would forgoe movement and shooting to gain a 2++ save is beyond me. All that means is that you never do anything with it and it can be ignored.

The 13 13 12 flyer? Sounds like they are bringing the Orca to the table. Hopefully with a better model than the flying brick.

That means when the suit is in combat it will have a +2 invulnerable with strength 6 MC attacks.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on February 05, 2013, 04:46:44 pm
It's still pretty pointless though because its weapons skill and attacks are likely going to be through the floor. WS 3 at best and maybe 3 attacks tops. You would be wasting what seems like a devestating amount of mobile firepower.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Narric on February 05, 2013, 05:18:49 pm
http://warhammer-tau-army.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/new-tau-rumours-now-for-little-reality.html

A person in the know has given some verification to some previous stuff.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Chicop76 on February 05, 2013, 05:47:03 pm
It's still pretty pointless though because its weapons skill and attacks are likely going to be through the floor. WS 3 at best and maybe 3 attacks tops. You would be wasting what seems like a devestating amount of mobile firepower.

They show the rumored stats. The rumared stats say this thing has very similar stats like a shaso minus t8, etc. Not saying depending on how it's armed to go rushing in combat.

However with what I see so far you can walk this thing up the middle of the field and dare anyone to assault it. If you assault you won't get the +2 invul in combat, but you can brace for assault getting the +2 invul. Also if locked in combat you can easily get the +2 invul.


It's rumored stats on a +2 invulnerable is highly unbelievable. You have to remember that the weapon systems haven't really been mention, but so far without weapons it's reall realy hard to kill. Ws 4 is too good and even 3 is good enough. Ws 2 is still good until you go against ws 5 or higher.

I think Tau should not get a giant suit that is a MC in my opinion and join the Happy Knights band wagon.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Narric on February 05, 2013, 05:56:18 pm
Just a thought.

Didn't GW buy out the company that made this (Or similar)?:
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w108/mangozac/Tau/HAW/Overall/walker_complete.jpg)

IF they did, maybe this is what they're making ito the codex?
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Chicop76 on February 05, 2013, 06:31:05 pm
Just a thought.

Didn't GW buy out the company that made this (Or similar)?:
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w108/mangozac/Tau/HAW/Overall/walker_complete.jpg)

IF they did, maybe this is what they're making ito the codex?

You mean Chapter House studios which is still around. I may be wrong that that model come from them, but Chapter House is still alive.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: knightperson on February 05, 2013, 06:32:51 pm
Wow, who opened the floodgates??? All kinds of stuff being rumored!

A 13/13/12 flyer is pretty hard to believe, unless MAYBE it's the Tau version of a drop pod and has minimal weaponry.

The vespid stormtalon also seems kinda wacky, but vespid are flyers in the first place, so maybe they just get Flying Monstrous Creature movement or something. Swarms of vector-striking vespid would be fun.

I'm not sure how I feel about an ubersuit. The image of a massive, bipedal machine striding through the battlefield laying waste to everything in its path is appealing, but it sounds a lot more Space Marine than Tau. I like crisis suits because they're sneaky, always ducking behind cover so you can't get a clean shot at them. We'll see what they actually come up with.

I'm happy to see mention of the Great Knarloc and the psychic defense, although details are scarce. More Kroot options sound like fun.

Unsure about the super-krootox, and I really don't like the (hopefully temporary name) krootonne. Seriously, something that rhymes with crouton? Again, we'll see what they actually come up with.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on February 05, 2013, 07:44:24 pm
If anything a huge Mecha makes MORE sense for Tau than anyone else because that is what Tau DO. Everyone else has bigger and bigger tanks. The Tau have A tank and swathes of battlesuits. I don't want anything even close to a titan, but something like a dakka heavy wraithlord is certaily plausable.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: InsaneTD on February 23, 2013, 03:05:35 pm
Anyone heard anymore?
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Narric on February 23, 2013, 06:52:32 pm
I haven't checked Naftka recently. The last I saw, was a compilation post of all the previous Tau Rumours.

In fact, looking through the archives, that was the last mention of Tau, 11th Feb.

After that, its all posts relating to Deamons and the Flyers supplement, and contradictory posts about how the hobby is great, but on the decline.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on February 26, 2013, 02:35:16 pm
Kroot hounds with the option of assault grenades.

Kroot Gnarloc rider cavalry (whether they're actually cavalry or classed something else is less important, but I want mounted kroot!)

The Great Gnarloc for our Monstrous Creature since we're about the only race that doesn't have either a Monstrous Creature or a Walker option.

Point cost adjustments, of course.

A buff for rail weapons: either the ability to hit multiple targets or a penalty to the cover saves.

I would like pulse rifles to have a chance at defeating AV12+ vehicles, whether that's with the addition of Tank Hunter, something like the old Necron Gauss effect, Rending, Strength 6, or whatever. Or another idea, what about an alternate firing mode that is a Heavy weapon with higher strength? Maybe each squad only carries one "hot-shot" clip per game.

Seeker missiles and markerlights need clean-up. And especially need a reversal of the stupid ruling that they need 6's to hit a flyer. Seekers should also have an area effect option like a frag missile.

Current Special Issue gear should be an option on ALL shas'vre and above, or at least one per squad rather than one per army.

Some kind of psychic defense even if we don't get our own psykers.
If Hormagaunts don't get assault grenades then why should Kroot hounds?

Why do you need Cavalry? It's the Tau Empire codex, not the Kroot Mercs list.

Tau don't need, and shouldn't have a Monstrous Creature. It doesn't really fit for them. A Walker could be a decent idea, if implemented properly, but then again you have suits, so what would it do that various existing units don't already cover?

Point cost adjustments are almost all the Tau codex needs apart from a flier, some of the shiny new rules and the Skyray to hit fliers on BS, or on a 2+ after markerlighting. :P

Buffs for Rail weapons? Are you Fething kidding me? They're already "10 with a 6ft range and get a +3 to damage open topped vehicles. I seriously hope you're trolling now.

Pulse rifles taking out AV12? On what justification? You already have the best default weapon in the game withthe highest strength, longest range and at least average AP.

No, Seekers should not have a Frag option, they're Hunter Killer equivalents, used to take out armour or air cover, not infantry.

So you want squad leaders to be able to take Cyclic Ion Blasters etc? don't think so somehow. (assmuning I've got my Tau ranks correct, if not what level is Shas'vre?)

As for psychic defence, there's this new rule that everyone gets called Deny the Witch. If you don't have Psykers that's all you get. It's all Dark Eldar get, it's all Necrons get. There is no reason Tau should be any different.

In short, stop fanboying and start thinking balanced and sensible.

Now that's dealt with, on to the rumours.

The flier, frankly, no. Unless that thing costs 300+pts then no. I know many of you will point to the beardy filth that is the Vendetta, but using a broken unit to justify your own is sucha poor argument that it's not worth trying. Fliers are absurd already, AV13, plus saves is just pathetic.

The "Uber-suit" is an even worse idea. "Oh dear, I'm locked in combat. Ok, so I can't move or shoot? Yay! 2+ invulnerable." No. No fucking way. If those stats are even remotely accurate then it has a BS5 plasma weapon, which ignores cover and it's tougher than a Carnifex or a Trygon with a better armour save, and it gets an invulnerable save. And it can take ablative wounds in the form of drone support. Absurd doesn't even begin to cover it. :-\

The Elite suit that's apparently getting included with the 18" range weapons. What exactly counts as "high toughness"? If that thing is T6 there's going to be hell to pay.

Why do suits get an automatic bonus to Deny The Witch exactly? They're still Tau. They're no different to Firewarriors other than more battlefield experience.

BS4 Firewarrior option is completely unnecessary. They could, potentially, have an Elite unit with BS4, I really don't see the need for their core units to be BS4 when they're already packing the best gun and decent armour.

Markerlight changes I quite like. Much simpler, more balanced. Being able to remove cover always annoyed the hell out of me.

If half of this is true then I really don't want to know how things are going to be in a couple of years time. :-\
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: InsaneTD on February 26, 2013, 03:12:09 pm
I'd just like to point out that all Shas'vre and above can already take Spec Issue stuff. Just each piece is one per army. Unless some FAQ I've missed changed that?

I agree with you on most of the wish listing stuff and some of the other things you mentioned. I like the larger amount of kroot, it gives me hope that I can revive the Kroot Merc list I wanted to build.

The new Walkers/bigger suits are putting me off and I hope are bad rumours. A Tau flier with saves isn't unprecedented,  and all have the option now from memory. And we probably will pay through the nose for it, we do with every other vehicle and unless ward has his mits on it, I don't really see that changing. Though the design meta does seem to be lower points cost so people have to buy more.
Title: The GED Thread
Post by: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on February 26, 2013, 03:41:23 pm
I don't have a problem with the flier having a save. All fliers get a 5+ jink anyway. My issue is that it's getting the absurdly high armour, for a flier, AND a save.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on February 26, 2013, 05:52:29 pm
A Tau Flier should rock in at 11 10 10 MAYBE 11 11 10. BS3(4). Maybe Supersonic. BSF and the option for a D-Pod. At least 2 Long Barreled Burst Cannons, a TL Missle Pod and a Main Weapon. 170-180 points. Seekers optional.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Charistoph on March 01, 2013, 08:51:35 pm
Why do you need Cavalry? It's the Tau Empire codex, not the Kroot Mercs list.

Tau don't need, and shouldn't have a Monstrous Creature. It doesn't really fit for them. A Walker could be a decent idea, if implemented properly, but then again you have suits, so what would it do that various existing units don't already cover?

Would this be a bad time to point out that:
A:  It's the Tau EMPIRE codex, not the Tau codex, anymore.  Kroot deserve as much place in it as Inquisitors do in Grey Knights, if not more.

B: They already exist.  Yeah, they're Forgeworld, but that's still official.  They were involved in Taros, and expand the options for the army.

They may not be your cup of tea, but no one's going to force you to take them.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on March 01, 2013, 09:22:47 pm
Why do you need Cavalry? It's the Tau Empire codex, not the Kroot Mercs list.

Tau don't need, and shouldn't have a Monstrous Creature. It doesn't really fit for them. A Walker could be a decent idea, if implemented properly, but then again you have suits, so what would it do that various existing units don't already cover?

Would this be a bad time to point out that:
A:  It's the Tau EMPIRE codex, not the Tau codex, anymore.  Kroot deserve as much place in it as Inquisitors do in Grey Knights, if not more.

B: They already exist.  Yeah, they're Forgeworld, but that's still official.  They were involved in Taros, and expand the options for the army.

They may not be your cup of tea, but no one's going to force you to take them.
A: I'm fairly sure Inquisitors only have 1 slot in the Grey Knights codex, you might want to look up a better example.

B: Forgeworld models may be official, but the rules are far from it for the 40K table. Everyone knows that Forgeworld models are always poorly costed and unbalanced. There's a reason you need your opponent's permission to use any of them. As for providing another option, the Tau should not have combat options. The Tau codex is a ranged codex, they shouldn't get Monstrous Creatures or extra combat options just "because". As I've pointed out, they don't NEED a Monstrous Creature because you have Suits and Tanks with decent armour, there is no role for it to fulfil.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: InsaneTD on March 01, 2013, 09:43:25 pm
Every army now has MCs, or at least will by the time GW has finished the current round of updates. Every army also has cqb units and needs them. It's such a major part of the game that anyone who ignores it entirely will lose most of their games.

Kroot also tend to be the better RANGED option over fire warriors in my experience.


All this is mute though as GW ALWAYS DOES WHAT THEY WANT AND IGNORES SET FLUFF. As is their right as owners of the IP.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on March 01, 2013, 09:55:48 pm
Really? What MC do Guard get then? And frankly, combat is close to redundant this edition as I've pointed out countless times because shooting has so much more emphasis this edition in addition to reduced cover etc. And like I said, there is no role for it to fill in the Tau codex. And that's before I go into the retarded ideas for the stats/rules that are posted so far.

As for Kroot being better at range, that's bullshit frankly. Tau get the highest strength basic weapon in the game, with the longest range (normal, and rapid) and at least average AP.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Railgun Convention on March 01, 2013, 11:50:33 pm
Best basic weapon, yes, but the Kroot have about the same survivability in almost all situations, can handle themselves well in combat, and point for point can match a Fire Warrior against most targets in shooting. So they can't handle transports? Charge it with 60-odd attacks and glance the damn thing to death.

And the Guard's MC is quite blatantly the Vendetta, regardless of the fact it's an aircraft :P
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Charistoph on March 02, 2013, 12:17:34 am
A: I'm fairly sure Inquisitors only have 1 slot in the Grey Knights codex, you might want to look up a better example.

They are in 2 tiers of slots, with possibilities to move 1 to a third.  Now, by Inquisitors here, I mean the Inquisition, their Assassins and their Henchmen, sorry if I wasn't clear on that.  And you can still mount a pure Inquisition army from that codex with not a single Grey Knight.

Quote
B: Forgeworld models may be official, but the rules are far from it for the 40K table. Everyone knows that Forgeworld models are always poorly costed and unbalanced. There's a reason you need your opponent's permission to use any of them. As for providing another option, the Tau should not have combat options. The Tau codex is a ranged codex, they shouldn't get Monstrous Creatures or extra combat options just "because". As I've pointed out, they don't NEED a Monstrous Creature because you have Suits and Tanks with decent armour, there is no role for it to fulfil.
[/quote]

No role to fulfill?  Is it stepping on Farsight's toes?  Did something else in the army suddenly get Smash?  I suppose the Vespid are doing their job too well, maybe?

As for NEED, you maybe right on the MC, unless one wants to field a version of the Kroot Merc codex without relying on a fairly outdated Chapter Approved (which some won't accept any sooner than a Forgeworld unit) and on a current codex instead.

For the Tau not needing combat options, a Knarloc isn't Tau, it's Kroot, so it has every right to be there as a Hound, Stingwing, or Carnivore, and Kroot CAN do combat.

 
As for Kroot being better at range, that's bullshit frankly. Tau get the highest strength basic weapon in the game, with the longest range (normal, and rapid) and at least average AP.


10 Str 4 shots can do as much damage to an enemy unit as 6 Str 5, usually, with availability to do more.  Add in the ability to carry a Rapid-Fire Autocannon, and they can actually do more without requiring another unit.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: InsaneTD on March 02, 2013, 12:45:09 am
I'll agree the "suits" aren't needed. And I also said will by the end of the current update cycle. Name one codex released since 6th that hasn't had an MC.

Having the best gun don't mean shit if you can't back it up with ability.  Fire warriors only advantages over kroot are Transports, grenades, pulse weapons and the fact the are tau  which isn't that great since it's only of use if there is an etheral on the field. The fact they can have a Transport is the only reason I use more FWs then Kroot.

When I lose, it's always because of CC. Even when I've been out shot, I still pull at least a draw. CC is still strong.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Charistoph on March 02, 2013, 03:20:38 am
… Name one codex released since 6th that hasn't had an MC.

What was the Dark Angel MC again?  I keep forgetting.

There have been only 3 since 6th launched, and 2 are Chaos with Daemon Princes.

But a Tau MC is stupid  (note, TAU, a Kroot one is fine) as it goes completely against character, while a Walker suits their preferences more.  Walkers are better gunners (if given enough guns), while MCs are better in melee.  And where do Tau prefer to fight, again?

Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on March 02, 2013, 02:57:56 pm
Best basic weapon, yes, but the Kroot have about the same survivability in almost all situations, can handle themselves well in combat, and point for point can match a Fire Warrior against most targets in shooting. So they can't handle transports? Charge it with 60-odd attacks and glance the damn thing to death.
I'm sorry, when exactly did the Kroot get a 4+ armour save? That's news to me.

A: I'm fairly sure Inquisitors only have 1 slot in the Grey Knights codex, you might want to look up a better example.

They are in 2 tiers of slots, with possibilities to move 1 to a third.  Now, by Inquisitors here, I mean the Inquisition, their Assassins and their Henchmen, sorry if I wasn't clear on that.  And you can still mount a pure Inquisition army from that codex with not a single Grey Knight.
Fair enough. I'm at fault there too I guess for thinking too literally. :P

Quote
B: Forgeworld models may be official, but the rules are far from it for the 40K table. Everyone knows that Forgeworld models are always poorly costed and unbalanced. There's a reason you need your opponent's permission to use any of them. As for providing another option, the Tau should not have combat options. The Tau codex is a ranged codex, they shouldn't get Monstrous Creatures or extra combat options just "because". As I've pointed out, they don't NEED a Monstrous Creature because you have Suits and Tanks with decent armour, there is no role for it to fulfil.

No role to fulfill?  Is it stepping on Farsight's toes?  Did something else in the army suddenly get Smash?  I suppose the Vespid are doing their job too well, maybe?

As for NEED, you maybe right on the MC, unless one wants to field a version of the Kroot Merc codex without relying on a fairly outdated Chapter Approved (which some won't accept any sooner than a Forgeworld unit) and on a current codex instead.

For the Tau not needing combat options, a Knarloc isn't Tau, it's Kroot, so it has every right to be there as a Hound, Stingwing, or Carnivore, and Kroot CAN do combat.[/quote]
Why does the Tau Empire codex have to have something with Smash? Dark Angels don't have anything with it and gets by just fine.

As for the need of the MC in general, unless there's a guaranteed Kroot HQ (which I know is rumoured, but no guarantee) then I can't see it being used often enough to be worth putting in frankly. If you can't take a pure Kroot force many people (I believe) would simply stick to the Broadsides and Hammerhead and blow everything up from distance. I might be wrong, but that's how I personally see it.

As for Kroot being better at range, that's bullshit frankly. Tau get the highest strength basic weapon in the game, with the longest range (normal, and rapid) and at least average AP.


10 Str 4 shots can do as much damage to an enemy unit as 6 Str 5, usually, with availability to do more.  Add in the ability to carry a Rapid-Fire Autocannon, and they can actually do more without requiring another unit.
I don't know points costs for Kroot, but frankly I still think the Firewarriors are the better option. Their 4+ save makes them more survivable, as does the ability to outrange their opponents, and frankly, BS3 is still decent given everything the Tau get and I seriously hope they don't get BS4. Or that if they do they cost more than a Marine, because BS4 with the best weapon is just absurd.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on March 02, 2013, 03:48:49 pm
"BS3 is still decent given everything the Tau get and I seriously hope they don't get BS4. Or that if they do they cost more than a Marine, because BS4 with the best weapon is just absurd."

So -1T -1S -2WS -1Ld -1Sv -2I is fine, but if they get a +16% chance to hit they need to be AT LEAST 17 points each?
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Railgun Convention on March 02, 2013, 04:03:32 pm
Best basic weapon, yes, but the Kroot have about the same survivability in almost all situations, can handle themselves well in combat, and point for point can match a Fire Warrior against most targets in shooting. So they can't handle transports? Charge it with 60-odd attacks and glance the damn thing to death.
I'm sorry, when exactly did the Kroot get a 4+ armour save? That's news to me.
Cover saves. So long as the terrain fairy isn't feeling malicious, Kroot are in pretty much the same boat.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on March 02, 2013, 07:33:13 pm
"BS3 is still decent given everything the Tau get and I seriously hope they don't get BS4. Or that if they do they cost more than a Marine, because BS4 with the best weapon is just absurd."

So -1T -1S -2WS -1Ld -1Sv -2I is fine, but if they get a +16% chance to hit they need to be AT LEAST 17 points each?
When you can outrange ANY other army, wound half of the armies on a 2+ and get a boosted rapid fire, you need to be bloody expensive for the sake of balance. Otherwise you can simply sit at the back of the board and obliterate almost any army with impunity and minimal losses. Also, check Chaos and Dark Angels, Marines aren't 17pts each any more.

Best basic weapon, yes, but the Kroot have about the same survivability in almost all situations, can handle themselves well in combat, and point for point can match a Fire Warrior against most targets in shooting. So they can't handle transports? Charge it with 60-odd attacks and glance the damn thing to death.
I'm sorry, when exactly did the Kroot get a 4+ armour save? That's news to me.
Cover saves. So long as the terrain fairy isn't feeling malicious, Kroot are in pretty much the same boat.
Kroot only get Stealth in Woodland don't they? Hardly guaranteed.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on March 03, 2013, 03:12:58 am
Even assuming  that all amrines get dropped to around 14 points each basic, for a firewarrior to cost more would have to be 15 points. +5 points per model for a +16% chance to hit. Thats just crazy, mainly because using said MEQ as an example in a 10 v 10 unit, you are still only wouldnt on 3s and they get a 3+ save, You are wounded on 3s and get a 4+ save, then the ones that survive the shooting are going to eat you in CC even if you have 2-1 odd in your favor.

They just arent worth that much for their statline with +1 BS.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on March 03, 2013, 01:04:31 pm
Even assuming  that all amrines get dropped to around 14 points each basic, for a firewarrior to cost more would have to be 15 points. +5 points per model for a +16% chance to hit. Thats just crazy, mainly because using said MEQ as an example in a 10 v 10 unit, you are still only wouldnt on 3s and they get a 3+ save, You are wounded on 3s and get a 4+ save, then the ones that survive the shooting are going to eat you in CC even if you have 2-1 odd in your favor.

They just arent worth that much for their statline with +1 BS.
You're forgetting that you outrange said Marines rather comfortably, now including an increased rapid fire range. With BS4 you're comfortably taking out 2 Marines a turn with 10 Firewarriors, and you can do that without fear of being shot back. That means your rapid fire will wipe almost half a squad. Believe me, you wouldn't be that outmatched. And frankly, when you're hitting on 3+ from a safe distance, wounding almost every army on 2+ and denying them a save because of the AP, you really should be bloody expensive.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Narric on March 03, 2013, 02:17:47 pm
Even assuming  that all amrines get dropped to around 14 points each basic, for a firewarrior to cost more would have to be 15 points. +5 points per model for a +16% chance to hit. Thats just crazy, mainly because using said MEQ as an example in a 10 v 10 unit, you are still only wouldnt on 3s and they get a 3+ save, You are wounded on 3s and get a 4+ save, then the ones that survive the shooting are going to eat you in CC even if you have 2-1 odd in your favor.

They just arent worth that much for their statline with +1 BS.
You're forgetting that you outrange said Marines rather comfortably, now including an increased rapid fire range. With BS4 you're comfortably taking out 2 Marines a turn with 10 Firewarriors, and you can do that without fear of being shot back. That means your rapid fire will wipe almost half a squad. Believe me, you wouldn't be that outmatched. And frankly, when you're hitting on 3+ from a safe distance, wounding almost every army on 2+ and denying them a save because of the AP, you really should be bloody expensive.
Mkoll, from my point ofview, you're stating that Tau should only have Ranged support, and yet here you are fighting against something that would support the Tau at range.

If Tau are not allowed anything to help them in combat, why are they not allowed to put near total emphasis on Shooting?

As pointed out earlier, though Tau Fire Warriors could be BS4, they're still "-1T -1S -2WS -1Ld -1Sv -2I" when compared to the Marines they're out ranging. So despite being easy to kill at range, and especially easy to kill in combat, and more likely to fail a Ld based test, for the simple fact they could take out Marines with relative ease, in the field of combat they're supposedly the masters of (possible over-exageration), they are broken/OP?

If you say that now, why are they not OP as is, being able to hit their target 50% of the time already?

Can I ask this: If Tau had Boltgun equivalent weapons, and BS4, would you call them OP? With no other changes?
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on March 03, 2013, 04:08:02 pm
Denying them a save because of AP? When Pulse rifles become AP3 as standard I will be the first one to cry cheese, believe me.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on March 03, 2013, 04:26:52 pm
Mkoll, from my point ofview, you're stating that Tau should only have Ranged support, and yet here you are fighting against something that would support the Tau at range.

If Tau are not allowed anything to help them in combat, why are they not allowed to put near total emphasis on Shooting?

As pointed out earlier, though Tau Fire Warriors could be BS4, they're still "-1T -1S -2WS -1Ld -1Sv -2I" when compared to the Marines they're out ranging. So despite being easy to kill at range, and especially easy to kill in combat, and more likely to fail a Ld based test, for the simple fact they could take out Marines with relative ease, in the field of combat they're supposedly the masters of (possible over-exageration), they are broken/OP?

If you say that now, why are they not OP as is, being able to hit their target 50% of the time already?

Can I ask this: If Tau had Boltgun equivalent weapons, and BS4, would you call them OP? With no other changes?
I'm not arguing against it, I'm simply pointing out that they will need a major price increase for them to be balanced if they become BS4. As I've pointed out, they're more than a match for Marines at range with that boost, and I shudder to think what they'd do against less survivable armies. The main issue is that they'd then be on par with the best shooters in the game AND have the best weapons AND be able to comfortably sit out of range of the majority of weapons while dealing that much damage. Tau aren't fragile compared to most units out there, they have an above average save and decent leadership.

If they had a boltgun equivalent then no, I wouldn't say they're OP, but while they can sit out of range with a stronger basic weapon than anyone else they have no right being BS4 unless they cost 14/15pts each. Combat is already harder to reach this edition, the pulse rifle's strength advantage makes that even harder, adding in the range factor makes it almost impossible without either deep striking or outflanking, in which case you still need to survive at least 1 turn of rapid fire, which a lot of units simply can't do.

Jayne: I said they deny armour to MOST units, not all. A lot of Eldar, almost all Dark Eldar and Tyranids, Guard, Orks. The only units that get a save are Marines, Necrons, other Tau and some elite units like Incubi and Banshees.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: DEF Knight on March 03, 2013, 04:31:14 pm
Quote
You're forgetting that you outrange said Marines rather comfortably, now including an increased rapid fire range. With BS4 you're comfortably taking out 2 Marines a turn with 10 Firewarriors, and you can do that without fear of being shot back. That means your rapid fire will wipe almost half a squad. Believe me, you wouldn't be that outmatched. And frankly, when you're hitting on 3+ from a safe distance, wounding almost every army on 2+ and denying them a save because of the AP, you really should be bloody expensive.

Pulse rifles are the most powerful basic infantry weapon in the game, that's for sure, but you shouldn't get ahead of yourself here. Most powerful doesn't mean world shattering firepower- it means an extra strength and 6 inches of range. It makes a big difference, no doubt, but look at it this way:

 Sisters of battle, for 2 points more per model and losing that strength and range on their guns, get +1BS +1I, a 3+ save, a 6++ invul, a pistol, frag and krak grenades, +1Ld, two different acts of faith to use.

1 Point more and you have a Chaos Marine, with +1WS, +1I, +1S and +1T, but without the Acts of Faith or 6++

Are sisters OP? I don't think so. So what's a +1bs worth? I think wherever I've seen it, it has been 1pt, but I don't remember any examples. Certainly Krieg get +1ws for a point a piece (and stubborn, and auto-rally near an officer as well)

Codex Grey Knights lists 4+ armour for henchmen to be 4 points, and 3+ armour to be 10. Ghostplate in codex Dark Eldar, giving a 4+ and 6++ to replace a 5+ is 10 points, and their 3+ armour is reserved for MC and Incubi. It is evident that the jump from 4+ to 3+ armour is an expensive one. If so shouldn't sisters be incredibly OP?

Let's look again. What are Acts of Faith worth to a sister? You can reroll 1's in CC or shooting, which is functionally a +1BS and better than +1WS, but only sometimes, and you can auto-rally sometimes. We know Krieg can auto-rally with their 1 point upgrade, so we'll say thats included, and we'll say the other powers are already paid for with their 6++ at a cost of 2 (cause a 6+ is only 1 point. a Chaos Cultist gets a 6++ for1 point, a Marine for 2, so the cost is somewhere in between). so we strip those out, and a Sister costs the same as a Fire Warrior. That means a 3 point difference between the Sister and Chaos Marine accounts only for +1WS, +1I, +1S and +1T. That's an easy cost estimate- WS and I are 1 point, S and T 1 point apiece. Then again, marks of Slaanesh and Nurgle cost an extra point for a marine over a cultist, for instance, so we see a pattern of diminishing returns- boost a score from 4 to 5 costs more than from 3 to 4.

The math, then, would indicate the extra S of a pulse rifle should be worth about 2 points.

a CSM and  a CSM Biker have a points difference of 7. That gives 12" movement, Hammer of Wrath, jink, farther charge distance, +1T, relentless, and a twin linked bolter, plus anything else I might be forgetting. we know the T bonus should be worth about 3, a la Mark of Nurgle, but if we've ball-parked 2 points for that level of upgrade as the average we'll stick with it. so for 5 points we get the rest of it. Twin Linked is worth about +1BS, maybe a little less. We'll say throw in relentless to make up the difference (as youre getting a few more shots where you wouldnt), to be nice we'll say thats just 1 point. jink is probably worth at least a point, so is hammer of wrath, leaving a 2 point difference for much farther move and charge distance. That's far superior to a 6" range increase strictly on shooting attacks (and the resultant 3" increase to rapid fire range). It does have some downside, but all in all if it's worth 2, a 6" range increase couldn't be worth more than 1.

So, all in all a Fire Warrior's weapon, as compared to a bolter, is only about 3 points more valuable. To compare:

Battle Sister costs 2 more, but gets:
2 points worth save invul save and powers
3 points worth of baseline stats
pistol and grenades- hard to price, but probably around 1 or 2
3+ save, anywhere from 2-6 points, arguably
for 6-11 points of advantage

A CSM costs 3 points more:
8 points of baseline stats
pistol and grenades- again, probably about 1 or 2
3+ save, 2-6 I would say
for 11-16 points of advantage

a Fire Warrior costs as much as a Fire Warrior:
3 points worth of better gun.
for 3 points of advantage

I just don't see anything to support "+1BS making Fire Warriors worth a Space Marine" even if you thought +1BS was worth 3 points, which would bring a Fire Warrior into costing the same as a Chaos Marine, you could still take it without changing the actual cost of the base model and it would just then be equal to the adjusted value of a Battle Sister at bare minimum. Yes you could glance AV 11. Good thing a lot of things don't have AV 11 facing forwards. Yes you could kill more marines, who all are in rhinos or drop pods or whatever anyway, and coming at you very quickly. It's no where near unbalanced. Let alone all of the arguments I just put worth were virtually all rounded and ball-parked downwards, some quite heavily. I think a balanced Fire Warrior would, in all likelihood, be looking at pistol+grenade and costing 8, or +1BS and costing 10. Probably with a little special rule to give it a bit more oomph, related to markerlights of sergeants.

Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on March 03, 2013, 05:08:07 pm
8pts/10pts? Are you absolutely out of your mind? A Hormagaunt/Ork boy costs less than that and at those points values would stand absolutely no chance whatsoever of making it into combat even with almost half again as many models. A Hellion is twice your first price, and they'd be shot down like flies too. It's all well and good trying to work out the cost of +1BS, but unfortunately the days when GW actually had a costing system instead of pulling numbers out of their arse are long gone.

Furthermore, the cost is not going to be consistent because, as the 4th edition Tyranid codex showed, when BS increases so should the cost of the weapon. Especially when that weapon has as many advantages over other races as the pulse rifle does. Yes, I'm aware that the 4th ed 'Nid codex is quite outdated, but it's the most recent example I can think of where BS could be boosted and prices changed. This is because when the BS goes up so does the effectiveness of the weapon, quite dramatically.

When you're toting the best weapon in the game, that means you pay for it. I've made the same argument that Black Knights are undercosted and other units too, I'm not just picking on Tau here, but when you can sit and shoot down your enemies with impunity and no fear of retaliation for at least a turn as your opponents move into position you really do need to be paying through the nose for a BS increase, even if it is only +1.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Narric on March 03, 2013, 05:43:16 pm
I don't buy the whole "Its outdated" as a reason to throw out older Codexi as examples. In fact I like them better as examples as they show a different way of approaching the game.

Though I can agree with DKs post, the fact he returns with the same cost as present FWs, is perhaps not the best result. With current gear, and some extras (Like adding a Pistol and Photon Nages as standard) I'd be fine paying 13pts per model for my Fire Warriors.

Another thing to consider is that BS4 doesn't just help Pulse Rifles, it also makes Markerlights even more effective, regardless of any changes that may/may not occur to their working. While I want my FWs to become more effective at range and so make them BS4, I can't help but think that BS4 Pathfinders would essentially mean that the enemy would have even less chance. This is where I would start to side with sticking to BS3 FWs & PFs.

In this I'd say that BS4 shouldn't be a standard boon, and instead be an upgrade with an appropriate cost. If we use our Fan-revamped Fire Warriors, with Pulse Pistol and Photon Nades standard, as I said I'd be fine paying 13pts per model. To then make them BS4, I'd again be comfortable paying an additional 5-7pts per model. This would make them 18-20pts per model. Yes, our guns are now able to sit back and rain death with no care for Combat, but now you have a smaller sized force, as you don't have as many points to spend elsewhere.

I'd also expect that such an upgrade, should be tied to a HQ slot in some way. Either a Veteran Commander, or a new Named Character. Provided other named characters can offered alternate ways of improving the army, such as being able to field a full Kroot/Alien Allies List.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: InsaneTD on March 04, 2013, 12:26:06 am
You're also ignoring power creep/points decreasing. Basic troops have gotten cheaper on average by about three points a piece in most codexes. GW is just as likely to drop the price of FW by two points, and give them photons and bs4 with that as they are to leave them the same price with said upgrades.


Also if my memory serves, YOU WHINGING ABOUT A 25 POINT RUMOURED UPGRADE THAT HAS A HQ REQUIREMENT. This upgrade will be something like 2.09 points a model assuming a full squad and ignoring the fact the HQ needed will probably be an ethereal if it is true, like it ALREADY is.

Until we know WHO is writting the codex, there isn't much much point assuming FWs will be bs 4 or get it as an upgrade.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on March 04, 2013, 02:35:31 am
I thought Crudface was doing it?
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: InsaneTD on March 04, 2013, 03:56:16 am
Is that rumoured or confirmed? If so, probably end up cheaper with bs 4 and extra equipment.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on March 04, 2013, 04:58:02 am
It's just the last thing I heard.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on March 04, 2013, 03:32:39 pm
You're also ignoring power creep/points decreasing. Basic troops have gotten cheaper on average by about three points a piece in most codexes. GW is just as likely to drop the price of FW by two points, and give them photons and bs4 with that as they are to leave them the same price with said upgrades.
No I'm not, I pointed out point decreases to Jayne earlier, and if Firewarriors are unchanged I have no issue with them coming down in price [/i]slightly[/i], but if they get made BS4 they need to cost considerably more, or the upgrade which grants it needs to cost a bomb.

Also if my memory serves, YOU WHINGING ABOUT A 25 POINT RUMOURED UPGRADE THAT HAS A HQ REQUIREMENT. This upgrade will be something like 2.09 points a model assuming a full squad and ignoring the fact the HQ needed will probably be an ethereal if it is true, like it ALREADY is.

Until we know WHO is writting the codex, there isn't much much point assuming FWs will be bs 4 or get it as an upgrade.
I am "whinging" about nothing, simply having a difference of opinion regarding how much a rumoured upgrade should cost. Frankly, 2pts/model for a full squad is not enough. To use my earlier example of the 'Nid codex in 4th, +1BS cost half that for Termagants (which are much less survivable than Fire Warriors) but the gun prices then doubled and not one of those weapons had a range about 18" or a strength value above 4. So with that in mind, even considering the general point decrease, +2pts/model for BS4 Tau is absurd.

Also, this thread is for responses to Tau rumours from BOTH sides of the fence, BS4 is rumoured, myself and others are simply responding to that.

As for the requirement of a HQ, big woop. Just take a basic [insert correct HQ here] and hide him in a unit. Nowhere is it rumoured that taking out this HQ removes the +1BS, so even if it is an Ethereal losing him won't cost you the upgrade. Oh, and if it's on an Ethereal, I get the impression they'll be laughably cheap to start with anyway. Or they'll get major boosts to their rules. Or both.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on March 04, 2013, 04:25:19 pm
Without a major re-write an ethereal will never be worth taking. I don't get the mentality of a person who designs a unit that is, fluffwise, idolised and revered by the troops, and then when he dies, they becomes only marginally sub par in CC. What is the point in a guy who has to die to work? And if thats how it has to go, let ME shoot him!

Personally I am kind of wondering if the Skyrays Markerlights might become High Intensity ones as they are vehical mounted. If they did they would actually be worth taking.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Minrat on March 04, 2013, 08:42:19 pm
As i think im not allowed to state blatant point values, here is some math where x is the current FW price.

If BS increases by 1, that is approx 16% more hits.  If the BS remains at what it is now, half the shots should hit.  You could spend the extra points from a lower BS example (current codex) on more FWs resulting in more shots and slightly better combat capabilities (more fighters, more damage).

As such, increasing the points cost in a new codex does make sense, but not by as much of a margin as suggested by previous posters.  If it increases hits by 16%, then the points should be increased by 16% resulting in the new price of 1.16*x  (where x is the current FW price).

You then have the choice of rounding up or down, depending on whether you see the loss of extra close combat models as significant in the calculation.  Either way, by the end of it you are looking at 11-12 points per model.

If something doesn't make sense-please advise....i can be bad at explaining things sometimes.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Narric on March 04, 2013, 09:09:23 pm
Minrat, its not so much the upgrade itself that is the issue, but what that single upgrade would mean.

Remember, it may be +16% more hits, but from those hits you're going to be wounding roughly 70% of the time, and then saves would be failed 40% (MEQ)/50% (GEq) or be out-right negated.

Then you also have to consider what BS4 means to Markerlights. Thats 16% more ML hits. One more ML can mean the destruction of an opposing unit, even in this edition. Now consider that MLs are possibly becoming more simplified. That 16% more hits is even more potent.

Going further, this would mean Battlesuits would be BS4 as standard. They can tot around Plasma Rifles, Missile Pods and Fusion Blasters. Suddenly Tau have no fear of any sort of vehicle, bar possibly a Flyer. in that vain, Broadsides become a far more devastating choice, being able to roll with Twin-linked BS4 Railguns.

In all fairness to mkoll, he does have grounds for concern on how OP BS4 could make tau, if taken to the logical conclusions I have. However, it does assume the codex remains fairly similar to what we have now.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: knightperson on March 05, 2013, 02:39:50 am
I was gonna stay out of this and let it die down, but that's clearly not happening! So...

You all seem to be missing one reason fire warriors and their mighty pulse rifles are not OP: it's all they can have in the squad. Other than a markerlight or EMP grenades, both of which are of dubious use, fire warriors can't take anything else. No flamers, no autocannon-equivalent weapons, no melta guns, no rocket launchers, nothing. Since objective missions have required troops to take objectives, troops need to have a chance at doing everything, and the fire warrior can't.  When their codex was written you could score with crisis suits that can do anything, but that is no longer the case. This is why I originally argued for some kind of buff to the pulse rifle, even if it's just Tank Hunter. I'd rather have Rending, but that would be broken without an impressive points increase.

Also, while the ability to move and fire rapid-fire weapons at full range is an impressive boost from 6th Edition, Only a hammer and anvil deployment would allow them to exploit such an advantage much. Theoretically, a fire warrior team could continue moving backwards and firing, constantly whittling down any opponent, but on most battlefields they could retreat once before falling off the board! And a straight Space Marine gunline is likely going to get clobbered by more than just the Tau anyway.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Minrat on March 05, 2013, 04:44:16 am
@ narric.

The same +16% of points cost would occur to everything else with higher BS as well.

In terms of markerlights, there will probably already be a point change if they are easier to hit that will affect all things the are a wargear upgrade or things that have markerlights as default.

After this, any further BS added would follow the same calculation as previously due to the fact that at a lower BS there would be a lower points cost, and due to that you can get more shots off by buying more fighters.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on March 05, 2013, 06:12:37 am
"Going further, this would mean Battlesuits would be BS4 as standard. They can tot around Plasma Rifles, Missile Pods and Fusion Blasters. Suddenly Tau have no fear of any sort of vehicle, bar possibly a Flyer. in that vain, Broadsides become a far more devastating choice, being able to roll with Twin-linked BS4 Railguns."

Battlesuits SHOULD be BS4 as standard. All that targetting technology in there and it has no effect on Aiming ability? Rubbish. Yes BS4 is mean with some weapons, but it is also very expensive for what it is and how fragile it is if you don't spend silly points on upgrades to keep you alive.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Mabbz on March 05, 2013, 07:24:26 am
Isn't this meant to be a rumours thread? Can a moderator move all these "OP fire warrior" posts to a new topic in the relevant board?
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Osiris on March 05, 2013, 10:21:11 am
i want them to release the new Tau codex/models so we can get onto the next set of rumours. speaking of which, i need to brush up on my Tau fluff...I am sorely lacking in that department.

In regards to what they may possibly release, I think that a monstrous Kroot critter is more likely than a variation of the 'Dreadknight' for the Tau, if anything, they may get a different battlesuit, or even another type of drone. that is just my opinion though.

/or/ for all those who like the new flyers (if only for the models, not the rules), most likely a flyer of some sort...maybe a flying kroot monstrous creature...who can breathe flames and whatnot. i would think this is the most logical course of action GW would take with this army list.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Charistoph on March 05, 2013, 04:36:23 pm
There was A rumor of Kroot getting an organic transport (think Squiggoth, but smaller).  It would be interesting to see if/how that turns out.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Narric on March 05, 2013, 08:56:15 pm
As we need fresh talking material, I've had a trawl through of Feaits' backlog of postings, and found some new info.

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/tau-and-eldar-hints-whats-missing.html

Going on the logic that miniatures removed from Warhammer Worlds' display means playtesting, Tau and Eldar are defnately in the works.

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/new-races-for-tau-codex.html

Specifically to Tau, there will be no new races included, though Kroot and Vespid are being expanded.

If anybody has other sources they'd like to post, go on right ahead :)


Edit

As if in answer to our want:
http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/shadowsun-tau-book-right-around-corner.html

With Black Library material appearing for Tau, its definately very close.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: BigToof on March 10, 2013, 06:16:03 am
Faeit has had lots of info about a possible APRIL drop for Tau, but I'm not sure...

I'd love to believe it, but still skeptical.

I must say, if and when it does hit, I'll be far happier :)

Wait... who's writing it again?

Oh... yeah...  hmmm....

Best,
-BT
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Narric on March 12, 2013, 09:18:56 am
A couple of the recent rumours are interesting.

Apparently, the Tau Codex has been taken of the site, along with the Hammerhead.

Checking the site myself, I can still order a copy, so it may just be unavailable to retailers.

A GW staff member made an FB wall post that implied they had heard about Tau in WD.

Onto tau models, forge world had some interesting stuff:
http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/tau-model-pics-from-gamesday.html

I'm interested to find out why Farsight now has a Forge World model variant.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Cammerz on March 12, 2013, 11:44:23 am
Those Games Day pics are several years old, pay them no heed.
The interesting information is the things being removed from the GW site, however I'm looking at their page now and it looks like it's all still there, only at a higher price than when I last looked (which is usual for GW).
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on March 12, 2013, 04:01:06 pm
I loved that Gamesday Farsight. I really hope they use it, or something similar. Tau suits should be so much more dynamic and fluid than they are now.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Narric on March 12, 2013, 04:04:12 pm
Latest rumours from Faeit

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/tau-rumors-broadsides-with-skyfire-and.html

Knee-jerk reaction is I'm pissed there is no FOC changing HQs. WTF?! Tau not special enough for that??!!

Crisis suits coming in 3s, with Commandeer parts included.

Fire Warriors cheaper, Kroot are weaker (-1 Strength)

I like the sound of the abilities.

Contradiction spotted. I'm sure someone e-mailed in saying that there would be NO NEW races in the codex, yet here he is reporting nothing is mentioned about new races :-\

Nothing to report for Kroot and Vespid other than the Str decrease for Troop Kroot.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on March 12, 2013, 07:30:27 pm
Why are Kroot being made weaker? Unless they are getting a major buff elsewhere, they would be worthless at S3.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: BlackPowderChocobo on March 12, 2013, 07:34:41 pm
My FLGS was told that it cannot order any more Tau items, including Crisis Suit boxes.  Dum dum dum!
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Narric on March 13, 2013, 12:14:21 am
A nice rash of Tau posts have appeared on Faeit.

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/crisis-suit-variant-and-ubersuit.html

The Ubersuits is potentially named "Riptide." which sounds like a named character to me, so will be interesting to see what it actually is.

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/tau-crisis-suits.html

A change to the Battlesuit, and its the ehad people are talking about? So far as I am concern, the legs were the only real point that needed a change, with Posable arms as a something to wish for.

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/tau-codex-author-is-wait-for-it.html

Vetock? Alright, whos been going around my brain? I though i was the one that invented strasnge sounding names for normal people. Freakin' humans, think they own my brain.

Supposedly, the Uber is not a HS. This leads me to think its a Special Character, rather than a customizable unit. Maybe along the lines of a Tau "Sammuel"

2nd posting to imply a massed version of Overwatch.

And Skyfire is an upgrade wargear.

Not sure if I like the sound of new models. Updated kits, I'll have no concerns, but if they've completely changed the models, well....
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Cammerz on March 13, 2013, 08:07:19 am
Jeremy Vetock wrote the Skaven army book, that wasn't bad, I'm much happier now I know it isn't Ward or Cruddace.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on March 15, 2013, 04:35:18 pm
Jeremy Vetock wrote the Skaven army book, that wasn't bad, I'm much happier now I know it isn't Ward or Cruddace.
He also wrote the Dark Angels book. That was bad. :-\

The mass overwatch idea is interesting. Not sure I see the benefit though really unless you are only being charged by 1 unit, which is rare. Of course that's assuming you can only overwatch once with each unit, though why/how on earth they could suggest otherwise is beyond me. So potentially useful, but in most cases I see that as more of a waste of points to be honest.

Combat suit I don't like the sound of for reasons I've already explained, but I quite like the idea of the "uber-suit" being a HQ rather than Heavy. Though frankly I don't see anything competing with Hammerheads and Broadsides for HS slots anyway.

If the flier get Railguns it needs to cost through the roof. Obviously depending on armour too, but being able to laugh at pretty much any vehicle knowing that your opponent needs 6s to hit you with most of their weapons sounds ever so slightly excessive. Though the lack of a dedicated transport flier is encouraging, Necrons are bad enough for that as it is.

Railgun "line effect" is hopefully wrong. S10 AP1 weapons with a 6ft range do NOT need any kind of bloody boost thanks. Overload for Ion weapons could be interesting. I'm assuming they'll function similar to Bladestorm in that they stop you firing the weapon in the following turn.

I'll wait to see if any of the rest reappear before commenting on them I think as pretty much all that's left is stuff the author has declared unlikely himself.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Narric on March 15, 2013, 08:48:02 pm
For those willing to look, there have a been a lot of Tau related posts over on Faeit. Too many for me to sit through and link.

Annoyingly, I don't have my copy of Skaven at disposal, if indeed I bought it. And as I'm slowly walking away from GW in general, I'm not interested in buying the DA book :P
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Arguleon-veq on March 16, 2013, 01:38:36 am
Just on the whole last Skaven book not being bad, they were perhaps the most broken fantasy army around when they first come out.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: salamut2202 on March 17, 2013, 03:17:21 am
http://blog.spikeybits.com/2013/03/the-rumors-are-true-tau-cometh-first.html (http://blog.spikeybits.com/2013/03/the-rumors-are-true-tau-cometh-first.html)

Interesting pics
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Pottsey on March 17, 2013, 08:29:51 am
Jeremy Vetock wrote the Skaven army book, that wasn't bad, I'm much happier now I know it isn't Ward or Cruddace.
If the flier get Railguns it needs to cost through the roof. Obviously depending on armour too, but being able to laugh at pretty much any vehicle knowing that your opponent needs 6s to hit you with most of their weapons sounds ever so slightly excessive. Though the lack of a dedicated transport flier is encouraging, Necrons are bad enough for that as it is.

Railgun "line effect" is hopefully wrong. S10 AP1 weapons with a 6ft range do NOT need any kind of bloody boost thanks. Overload for Ion weapons could be interesting. I'm assuming they'll function similar to Bladestorm in that they stop you firing the weapon in the following turn.

I'll wait to see if any of the rest reappear before commenting on them I think as pretty much all that's left is stuff the author has declared unlikely himself.
The rumours which turned out to be true about the flyers, names and super suit said rail guns are now STG 8 but come with free A.S.S and can gain skyfire. Rail weapons seem to now come in 3 versions. As for the Flier I only spotted missile pods no rail weapons. No idea on bomber stats or other Flier weapons. The Sum Shark & Razorshark flyers look like Piranha Skimmers, I wonder if the Piranha would make a nice stand in model for play testing. Perhaps we could convert a Piranha to save spending £40 per flyer. Riptide battlesuit £50 :(
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Narric on March 17, 2013, 10:10:43 am
Well, the Ubersuit and the Tau Flayers look interesting.

About bloody time Pathfinders had a plastic-kit. Not yet sure what to think of the redesigned Broadside.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: BigToof on March 17, 2013, 12:16:51 pm
These... these look amazing!

Sorry wallet, this only happens once a decade...

Best,
-BT
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Ra´Meses on March 17, 2013, 07:41:59 pm
I have one question and if it is stupid, please forgive me. Have there been any rumour about tau aligned humans? I guess that it is clear that Gue´vesas are not in the Codex, we should have heard it by now. But are there rumours about the interesting things, like the background and fluff being changing/developing?

I am planning to make my Imperial guard army to play alternatively as a separatist army that is supported by the Tau Empire, but not occupied by the Taus. At least not yet.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Narric on March 17, 2013, 08:04:21 pm
If you want Gue'vesa, you'll have to use suitable modeled IG with the IG codex, and use the new Allies sytem for 40k.

Your Tau will be your Primary detachment (normal FOC), and the IG/Gue'vesa will be your secondary detachment.

Secondary detachments have the following restrictions on FOC
1 HQ (compulsory)
1 Troops (compulsory)
0-1 Elites (Option)
0-3 Troops (option, though it could be 0-1)
0-1 Fast Attack
and 0-1 Heavy support

You'll want to pick up the 6th edition rulebook for all the details.

I myself am doing a Tau/IG army, with my IG being a Radical Inquisition force.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: pepsi on March 18, 2013, 02:08:43 am
I have one question and if it is stupid, please forgive me. Have there been any rumour about tau aligned humans? I guess that it is clear that Gue´vesas are not in the Codex, we should have heard it by now. But are there rumours about the interesting things, like the background and fluff being changing/developing?

I am planning to make my Imperial guard army to play alternatively as a separatist army that is supported by the Tau Empire, but not occupied by the Taus. At least not yet.

Considering the allies detachment, I don't think they found any reason to incorporate them. They are more or less better for that, despite lacking gifts from Tau commanders. Instead of runofthemill guardsmen, you now have the option to incorporate their tribal cavalry aspects, their conscripts, their veterans, and even their snipers and tanks. Which isn't bad all together. One troop choice can be filled to the brim with guardsmen, if one were so inclined.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Narric on March 18, 2013, 03:59:54 pm
I have some picture from BoLS: http://www.3plusplus.net/2013/03/more-tau-picturez/

click to enlarge.

(http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s480x480/295651_10151473726388898_1911844999_n.jpg)
The flyer design is Meh. Cool, but not that awesome. Does very well to keep the same to the current non-FW models.

(http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s480x480/487850_10151473724943898_1287048633_n.jpg) (http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s480x480/487813_10151473726088898_1808352789_n.jpg)
I'm probably the only person here who thinks GW have made this ubersuit look like crap. Whats with the freakin' tiny head? The guns make it look completely off balance. The legs take the "Chicken leg" problem of regular Crisis suitsa to a whole new level.

(http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s480x480/599203_10151473725738898_1057661584_n.jpg)
I'm not buying, GW. Its probably cheaper for me to just buy the Fire Warrior box instead of this kit. Drones don't really sell it either, as they look tac'd on at best.

(http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/s480x480/63915_10151473725948898_1292857059_n.jpg)
Farsight, looks meh. They could have easily just revamped the original to be more customisable. They've probably done this as a middle finger to converters :P
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: salamut2202 on March 19, 2013, 12:46:38 am
So we have a piranha with wings. I don't hate it, but I like the forgeworld style flyers more. I wonder what the drones do.

I really like the riptide actually, the chunky thighs gives a bit of a samurai look and the head just makes the thing look more colossal. I wonder what those drones do.

The pathfinders are pathfinder. Okay I guess, they're pathfinders but not metal. I wonder what those drones do.

So this thing (http://warhammer-tau-army.blogspot.com.au/2011/10/tau-in-q1-2012.html) turned out to be pretty foreboding. Cool. He needs new looking drones :P
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on March 19, 2013, 01:39:34 am
Nobody has mentioned those new looking drones yet, I wonder what they do?

They actually look a little like the DX-4 Technical Drone if I recall. Might mean a repair ability.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: crisis_vyper on March 19, 2013, 01:48:57 am
(http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s480x480/295651_10151473726388898_1911844999_n.jpg)
The flyer design is Meh. Cool, but not that awesome. Does very well to keep the same to the current non-FW models.

Initially looking at the aircraft I thought it sucks, but now that I looked at it from that angle, it looks alright actually. Reminds me of some WW2 planes to be honest.


(http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s480x480/487850_10151473724943898_1287048633_n.jpg) (http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s480x480/487813_10151473726088898_1808352789_n.jpg)
I'm probably the only person here who thinks GW have made this ubersuit look like crap. Whats with the freakin' tiny head? The guns make it look completely off balance. The legs take the "Chicken leg" problem of regular Crisis suitsa to a whole new level.

There is a reason for that actually. If you want to make something really imposing, the easiest way is to make the head smaller than average.

As for the overall look of the model, I feel like I can use this as a model in a game of Inquisitor as a normal crisis suit.

As for gameplay as its original model. I am interested to see what it can do.

(http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s480x480/599203_10151473725738898_1057661584_n.jpg)
I'm not buying, GW. Its probably cheaper for me to just buy the Fire Warrior box instead of this kit. Drones don't really sell it either, as they look tac'd on at best.

You are getting it for the options to be honest, and those drones may be a vital way of playing with the Tau.

(http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/s480x480/63915_10151473725948898_1292857059_n.jpg)
Farsight, looks meh. They could have easily just revamped the original to be more customisable. They've probably done this as a middle finger to converters :P

The old Farsight is actually kinda static, so I can see why they would want to resculpt O'Shovah. These days a lot of the special characters have......character to them. Of course that saying, I always use a normal crisis suit anyway.


I am surprised that no one is talking about the kroot, vespids or any new alien races that would be with the Tau. What happened to them?
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: crisis_vyper on March 19, 2013, 01:55:24 am
(http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s480x480/295651_10151473726388898_1911844999_n.jpg)
The flyer design is Meh. Cool, but not that awesome. Does very well to keep the same to the current non-FW models.

Initially looking at the aircraft I thought it sucks, but now that I looked at it from that angle, it looks alright actually. Reminds me of some WW2 planes to be honest.


(http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s480x480/487850_10151473724943898_1287048633_n.jpg) (http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s480x480/487813_10151473726088898_1808352789_n.jpg)
I'm probably the only person here who thinks GW have made this ubersuit look like crap. Whats with the freakin' tiny head? The guns make it look completely off balance. The legs take the "Chicken leg" problem of regular Crisis suitsa to a whole new level.

There is a reason for that actually. If you want to make something really imposing, the easiest way is to make the head smaller than average.

As for the overall look of the model, I feel like I can use this as a model in a game of Inquisitor as a normal crisis suit. And it seems that my perception of suits as more of an Armoured Core/Front Mission robots are realized to an extent now.

As for gameplay as its original model. I am interested to see what it can do.

(http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s480x480/599203_10151473725738898_1057661584_n.jpg)
I'm not buying, GW. Its probably cheaper for me to just buy the Fire Warrior box instead of this kit. Drones don't really sell it either, as they look tac'd on at best.

You are getting it for the options to be honest, and those drones may be a vital way of playing with the Tau.

(http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/s480x480/63915_10151473725948898_1292857059_n.jpg)
Farsight, looks meh. They could have easily just revamped the original to be more customisable. They've probably done this as a middle finger to converters :P

The old Farsight is actually kinda static, so I can see why they would want to resculpt O'Shovah. These days a lot of the special characters have......character to them. Of course that saying, I always use a normal crisis suit anyway.


I am surprised that no one is talking about the kroot, vespids or any new alien races that would be with the Tau. What happened to them?
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Manatee on March 19, 2013, 06:21:36 am
You know, I used to argue with those weaboo, gundam wing types that games workshop would NEVER make a giant tau mech/titan, because it doesn't make sense for their background, or play-style. I figured they'd add an air unit, and maybe field the XV9's as plastic kits, but I swore they'd never make something so ridiculous like that. Of course after seeing the fucking Dreadknight I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised, but I can't believe that abomination is actually going to be  in the codex...








...That being said I'll take twelve.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: InsaneTD on March 19, 2013, 11:53:59 am
Does put a new spin on the titan argument.

Hate the riptide, Want to see the flyer from other angles and yes, did think WWII aircraft when I saw it. I happen to love the new Farsight.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on March 19, 2013, 12:43:16 pm
Does put a new spin on the titan argument.
No it doesn't. That argument's been done to the death. :P

The flier looks ok from that angle and Farsight seems improved at least. The ubersuit doesn't look right though.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Allfather on March 19, 2013, 12:56:10 pm
Quote
There is a reason for that actually. If you want to make something really imposing, the easiest way is to make the head smaller than average.
Um. What? I think you have that backwards. There is also a reason GW designs all their models with "heroic" dimensions, (besides being easier to paint) they look more imposing. If I saw some roided out guy with a head that was too small for his body I would (rightfully) think he looked ridiculous.


The flyer reminds me of a P38 Lightning... and not in a good way. I'm not a fan of it. They could have made it look way more alien than it does. As it is, the design seems more like something the Imperium would do than the Tau.

Farsight... did they even try? I loved Farsight back when I played Tau, but this doesn't even look like they did much of anything to the model to bring him up to date.

The Ubersuit: You know, I actually kinda like it. I can see the point about the small head, but then again I can see why they would want to have the head like that. It's just a bunch of sensors feeding information to the pilot inside the suit. It doesn't need to be big.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: crisis_vyper on March 20, 2013, 11:05:47 am
Quote
There is a reason for that actually. If you want to make something really imposing, the easiest way is to make the head smaller than average.
Um. What? I think you have that backwards. There is also a reason GW designs all their models with "heroic" dimensions, (besides being easier to paint) they look more imposing. If I saw some roided out guy with a head that was too small for his body I would (rightfully) think he looked ridiculous.

Ah forgotten to mention that it only works for robots or inhuman things.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: salamut2202 on March 20, 2013, 12:15:19 pm
Quote
There is a reason for that actually. If you want to make something really imposing, the easiest way is to make the head smaller than average.
Um. What? I think you have that backwards. There is also a reason GW designs all their models with "heroic" dimensions, (besides being easier to paint) they look more imposing. If I saw some roided out guy with a head that was too small for his body I would (rightfully) think he looked ridiculous.

Ah forgotten to mention that it only works for robots or inhuman things.
To add to that, you said 'backwards'. Backwards would imply that a large head would be impossing and, as it replicates the proportions of small children, big heads in compassion to the body I the stuff of chibi cartoons.

Also, on your example,
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-RLhogwvI6P8/TaklW8BhrqI/AAAAAAAABzs/_SXb7THUsjA/s1600/crimson_fist.jpg)
Large, dominating, imposing, relatively tiny head.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Allfather on March 20, 2013, 12:29:46 pm
Well, he's also wearing a huge suit of power armor and no helmet. His head would still be in proportion to his actual body. I think he actually does look a bit silly without his helmet, but then I think all Space marines look silly without helmets... :P
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Chocomel on March 21, 2013, 04:14:36 pm
It could have been worse, a Tau version of the dreadfullknight babycarrier.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: InsaneTD on March 23, 2013, 02:50:44 am
See two new Tau black library books were released today. Shadowsun and Fire Caste.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Ra´Meses on March 24, 2013, 09:44:09 am
They are really pushing it then. Shame I am so short of funds I feel that paying all the money for the Codex is too much at the moment.

Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Pottsey on March 25, 2013, 12:30:13 pm
See two new Tau black library books were released today. Shadowsun and Fire Caste.
There was also a short while ago the “The Greater Good” although I wouldn’t recommend it as the front cover, title and synopsis are very misleading. It starts off really good but the Tau pretty much vanish at the start of the book. From chapter 8 onwards the Tau have all but vanished bar the odd rare line to do with a Tau diplomat. Still the Tau section was good just by the time the Tyranids turn up the Tau are long gone despite what the front cover shows.

The Shadowsun book I really enjoyed but it was far shorter than expected. I would estimate about half the size of an average novel.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Dra'Tuisisch-Novae on March 26, 2013, 04:58:12 pm
The Ubersuit: You know, I actually kinda like it. I can see the point about the small head, but then again I can see why they would want to have the head like that. It's just a bunch of sensors feeding information to the pilot inside the suit. It doesn't need to be big.

That's kind of my feeling, too. I'll probably convert the head to be a little larger and more functional, but the rest of it is okay... except the feet. Someone mentioned "chicken legs", but I actually think the leg proportion is fine. It's just that the feet are ridiculous; I'd have to add extra stabilizers and struts to make them look big enough.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on March 26, 2013, 06:19:02 pm
So im looking at the pictures and it looks to me like every weapon on the tau flyers is turret mounted, giving them a 360 fire arc. If thats the case it will really reduce the need to manuver to get a bead on target. I may have to remove those struts linking the tail and the wings though, I don't like those.

And the new XV88s are simply badass. The look bulky and solid, which is good.

As much as I want to dislike it, I cannot help but be overcome by the sheer fuck you- itude of the Riptide and I am despereate to see what weapon loadouts it can take.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: salamut2202 on March 27, 2013, 09:20:12 am
We have pics of more characters.
http://pinsofwar.com/pictures-of-the-new-tau-characters/ (http://pinsofwar.com/pictures-of-the-new-tau-characters/)
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: InsaneTD on March 27, 2013, 09:45:20 am
Looks like it has rail rifles in the wings. O.o
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on March 27, 2013, 10:22:57 am
I am extremely hopeful and optimistic for this release. I just hope Codex Man doesn't balls it up for us. I WANT this to be good so very badly.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: InsaneTD on March 27, 2013, 11:02:36 am
We all do.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on March 27, 2013, 01:05:14 pm
We all do.
However we all have different ideas of what "good" would be. :P

The models look decent. I just hope they've not decided that every race suddenly needs a tank upgrade character. :-\
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on March 27, 2013, 01:41:31 pm
I want long range, accurate fire power, withering mid range firepower and to lose horribly in CC. Thats how it should be. I want to laugh tanks off the table and I want laser guided missiles to annoy anyone spamming fliers.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Narric on March 27, 2013, 02:14:45 pm
I just hope they've not decided that every race suddenly needs a tank upgrade character. :-\
So far, Tau look to be the only non-SM army to have a Tank Character, and even then, only SMurfs have one.

Garaunteed, only the SMurf Character will continue to have the option of evacuating his machine when its destroyed.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Allfather on March 27, 2013, 02:17:48 pm
I just hope they've not decided that every race suddenly needs a tank upgrade character. :-\
So far, Tau look to be the only non-SM army to have a Tank Character, and even then, only SMurfs have one.

Garaunteed, only the SMurf Character will continue to have the option of evacuating his machine when its destroyed.

IG has a tank character as well.

Which really makes more sense than any of the other races, (to have an Ace Tank Commander) since IG has about a trillion tanks per platoon.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Narric on March 27, 2013, 02:40:17 pm
I just hope they've not decided that every race suddenly needs a tank upgrade character. :-\
So far, Tau look to be the only non-SM army to have a Tank Character, and even then, only SMurfs have one.

Garaunteed, only the SMurf Character will continue to have the option of evacuating his machine when its destroyed.

IG has a tank character as well.

Which really makes more sense than any of the other races, (to have an Ace Tank Commander) since IG has about a trillion tanks per platoon.
Oops, forgot about the IG Dude. I mostly ignored/forgot all the IG characters, with the exception of the non-cadian/catachan characters, like Chenkov and Al'rahem.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Dra'Tuisisch-Novae on March 27, 2013, 03:12:20 pm
My memory could be off, but isn't there a Grey Knight one now, too?
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Narric on March 27, 2013, 03:40:39 pm
Did Chaos Space Marines and Dark Angels recieve a Tank Character?

I personally don't remember anyone mentioning it, so i assume not.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Chicop76 on March 27, 2013, 03:58:56 pm
Vanilla Marines and Im0perial Guard has the only two tank characters so far. Tau will make 3.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Lord Sotek on March 27, 2013, 07:05:50 pm
]So far, Tau look to be the only non-SM army to have a Tank Character, and even then, only SMurfs have one.

What's Knight-Commander Pask then, chopped liver?
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: InsaneTD on March 28, 2013, 12:06:31 am
I want long range, accurate fire power, withering mid range firepower and to lose horribly in CC. Thats how it should be. I want to laugh tanks off the table and I want laser guided missiles to annoy anyone spamming fliers.
I agree fully.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on March 28, 2013, 05:57:55 am
So I am seeing some places that the XV88 now has a Heavy Rail Rifle, but is going to be the mutt nuts at turning flyers into scrap. Could it be that this is going to be the codex to break the power of flyers with plenty of AA options? It seems that Ion Cannons are taking a hit aswell, or are coming in a variety of flavours now.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: salamut2202 on March 28, 2013, 08:58:44 am
http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?23749-Tau-Rumor-Roundup-Mk-2&p=293162&viewfull=1#post293162 (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?23749-Tau-Rumor-Roundup-Mk-2&p=293162&viewfull=1#post293162)
Damn right there's more!
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Narric on March 28, 2013, 09:08:04 am
So the new commander kit is essentially a conversion that has been floating around for years.

The new Broadside kit comes with a Deathrain configuration option.

You can have an underslung Plasma Rifle atached to you mini-titan Burst Cannon.

Missile Pod Drones are now a thing.

And I think we can all agree the model designer decided to watch every episode of every series of Gundam and Macross.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: InsaneTD on March 28, 2013, 09:20:21 am
Have I mentioned I love the look of the new Broadsides? I love the the new Broadsides.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on March 28, 2013, 09:31:46 am
New Broadsides are going to be brutal. I wonder how much more they will cost, points wise. Although if my total lack of ability to read french is anything to go by, a Guided Missile is going to be an option.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on March 28, 2013, 09:49:26 am
"Darkstrider - comes with a structural analyser to target weak points of enemy armour" Yes, because when you're packing S10 AP1 weapons you really need to be able to reduce enemy armour. Honest. ::)

"CAdre fireblade - 3w IC with split fire a marker light and +1 shot to all fire warriors if they stood still." I'm hoping they've just neglected to mention/not be able to find out about the range limit of this ability.

Sykray finally gets cleared up, good to see. :)

"the main armament is indeed a quad ion weapon with 360 arc." I thought the main balancing point of fliers was supposed to be manoeuvrability and fire arcs? 
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Mabbz on March 28, 2013, 09:53:22 am
So many missiles... WANT.

I also like the crisis suit's hands. Now I can make my commander strangle some poor guardsman.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on March 28, 2013, 09:58:56 am
""Darkstrider - comes with a structural analyser to target weak points of enemy armour" Yes, because when you're packing S10 AP1 weapons you really need to be able to reduce enemy armour. Honest"

Doesn't say reduce. And it doesn't say that it will effect other units either. Might only affect this guy and his unit. Railguns of the S10 AP1 variety only seem to be on Railheads now, so he can't join them.


I am wondering if Ion weapons will Get Hot if you use the Overcharge function. Or if they will just need a turn to cool down.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on March 28, 2013, 10:03:31 am
Doesn't say reduce. And it doesn't say that it will effect other units either. Might only affect this guy and his unit. Railguns of the S10 AP1 variety only seem to be on Railheads now, so he can't join them.


I am wondering if Ion weapons will Get Hot if you use the Overcharge function. Or if they will just need a turn to cool down.
No, true, but that's what I'm expecting it to do. I'm also expecting it to work similar to the current markerlight (1 unit can take advantage). Better to expect the worst. :P

I'm hoping the Get Hot and need a turn to recharge. S8 blasts, or large blasts in the case of the Riptide, is bloody painful. Especially if the Ion Cannon's been upgraded to AP3. (I know that's not rumoured, but it was very high on the wishlist) Also, bearing in mind the size of the drones, I'd say there has to be some risk of self-destructing in there, otherwise it's just silly.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on March 28, 2013, 10:10:20 am
Ion Cannons always have been AP3. I would prefer a turn to cool. Gets Hot isn't something the Tau like to put in the field.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: InsaneTD on March 28, 2013, 10:20:05 am
Who ever was wishlisting AP3 Ion Cannons needs a slapping. They already are. And if they wanted AP 2, they still deserve a slapping. The Ion is string enough as it is. And I really hope it's not str 8 during blast. Cause then it  will be the ONLY weapon in the game to get STRONGER in blast mode. Though if it's blast 1 rather then what it is now with blast, that could make sense. Not likely some of what I'm hearing on weapons though.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Dra'Tuisisch-Novae on March 28, 2013, 12:42:06 pm
So instead of releasing new Crisis suits, release a new Commander and count on everyone fielding Commanders for all their Crisis suits because the look so good? Well played, GW.

So the new commander kit is essentially a conversion that has been floating around for years.

Not quite, at least not unless there's a conversion kit I'm unaware of. That suit has some pretty significant departures from the standard Crisis - look at the rounded 'gorget' and the waist/groin area.

And fingers! :D

Title: Enter, The Darkness
Post by: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on March 28, 2013, 12:42:41 pm
They are? I should find more reliable sourbes. :P In that case they should be Gets Hot and need a turn cool down. I know Tau don't like Gets Hot, who does? But it is stated as still being experimental, and it's an overload. Overloads are dangerous.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on March 28, 2013, 12:44:03 pm
It shouldn't be both. One or the other. +1 Strength isn't worth both.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Allfather on March 28, 2013, 12:50:23 pm
And fingers! :D

That was the first thing I noticed :P They DO have fingers!

Also, why does it always seem to be the French or Spanish version of the Codex that gets "leaked" before anything else...?
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on March 28, 2013, 01:35:15 pm
It shouldn't be both. One or the other. +1 Strength isn't worth both.
The ability to insta-gib Marines, Wraiths, Tyranid Warriors/Zoanthropes etc isn't worth both? Run that one by me again please? Oh, not to mention it makes damaging vehicles easier too, especially as the "if the hole isn't over the vehicle halve the strength" rule is gone. Trust me, it's worth both. Oh, and you'll be wounding most MCs on 2+ and ignoring their armour.

More to the point, if an extra S4 AP5 shot is worth a turn's cooldown then +1 Strength, improved reliability (due to blast) and the chance to wound more models than you could otherwise is well worth a turn's cooldown and Gets Hot. Be serious.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on March 28, 2013, 02:46:53 pm
Blast also makes you scatter. I'd rather not have it. Like I said, Tau don't do gets hot, even depowering their weapons below the norm to avoid it. S6 on Plasma Rifles and AP3 on the Plasma Cannon. It is very unlikely it will have gets hot. Although really, if there is a big drawback, just fire it normally. Better 5-7 turns of consistant fire rather than 3-4 turns of moderatly improved fire.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Narric on March 28, 2013, 03:00:15 pm
So the new commander kit is essentially a conversion that has been floating around for years.

Not quite, at least not unless there's a conversion kit I'm unaware of. That suit has some pretty significant departures from the standard Crisis - look at the rounded 'gorget' and the waist/groin area.

And fingers! :D
http://bb.bbboy.net/deepspace-viewthread?forum=6&thread=392

Been around sicne 2005 ;)
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Dra'Tuisisch-Novae on March 28, 2013, 03:21:17 pm
Well people have been doing conversions of that type for since there were Crisis suits; I thought you meant there was an actual conversion kit that I was unaware of.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on March 28, 2013, 03:45:59 pm
Blast also makes you scatter. I'd rather not have it. Like I said, Tau don't do gets hot, even depowering their weapons below the norm to avoid it. S6 on Plasma Rifles and AP3 on the Plasma Cannon. It is very unlikely it will have gets hot. Although really, if there is a big drawback, just fire it normally. Better 5-7 turns of consistant fire rather than 3-4 turns of moderatly improved fire.
Makes you potentially scatter. You're nearly as likely to do damage with the blast even without the increased Strength. 1/3 chance of a hit, then 1/12 or 1/6 chance of 0 scatter anyway for BS 3/4 respectively. Hell, the scatter might take the shot out of line of sight and cause more damage than you could initially. Add in that you can get way more than 3 models under even a small blast template and there's no way blast isn't an improvement, never mind the Riptide's large blast version.

And like I said, it's an overloaded shot. Overloads are incredibly dangerous. If there's no risk it's not an overload. Not to mention the fact that it's still experimental. It might not fit with the previous Tau mindset, but experimental weapons are going to have faults and dangers, especially when overloaded. Therefore it should be Gets Hot and have a cooldown time for purposes of both balancing and making sense. As I've mentioned, +1 shot at S4 was deemed worthy of losing a turn's shooting. +1 Strength and Blast is well worth that and Gets Hot, especially when you consider how much difference S8 makes compared with S7.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on March 28, 2013, 03:56:48 pm
Bladestorm is from what is now (I think) one of the oldest codexes out there. The comparison is not usable anymore. I don't mind losing a turn. But you would accomplish more with 5 turns of S7 than you would with 3 turns at S8.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on March 28, 2013, 04:02:44 pm
Bladestorm is from what is now (I think) one of the oldest codexes out there. The comparison is not usable anymore. I don't mind losing a turn. But you would accomplish more with 5 turns of S7 than you would with 3 turns at S8.
It is, but it's the only comparison that I'm aware of outside Imperial Guard and a) that requires a Ld check and b) I can't remember exactly how it works. :P

Umm..you might. Then again, you might not. It depends what targets are available, how well you roll etc etc. Like I said, instagibbing things like Tyranid Warriors, with them not getting a save or only getting a 5+ is much preferrable to having to inflict 3 wounds to get a single kill and a well placed blast marker can still hit 3 Warriors. (assuming I'm right in thinking the hole only has to be over a base now, not a head) Also the ability to take out Marine Commanders/Librarians etc in a single shot and earn Warlord/deny nasty psychic powers is a big deal. Against Eldar it's the difference between 4s and 5s to damage a vehicle, 2s and 3s to harm Wraithguard/War Walkers etc. That +1 Strength is a bigger deal than you seem to think it is, and Blast is helpful more often than not.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on March 28, 2013, 04:25:55 pm
It also entirely depends on what the weapon IS. If it is the Ion Cannon on the Hammerhead, that getting a Blast that isn't large won't be worth it. On the smaller guns, it MIGHT be, if they keep AP3 across the board for Ion weapons. The Cyclic Ion Blaster WAS only AP4, I don't know if that is still the case. The new Ion Rifle that the Pathfinders get would benefit, but the Ion Quad Blaster thing on the back of the Sunshark (seriously, why is it back there?) would be useless with blast because it is for shooting other flyers down with.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on March 28, 2013, 04:32:59 pm
It also entirely depends on what the weapon IS. If it is the Ion Cannon on the Hammerhead, that getting a Blast that isn't large won't be worth it. On the smaller guns, it MIGHT be, if they keep AP3 across the board for Ion weapons. The Cyclic Ion Blaster WAS only AP4, I don't know if that is still the case. The new Ion Rifle that the Pathfinders get would benefit, but the Ion Quad Blaster thing on the back of the Sunshark (seriously, why is it back there?) would be useless with blast because it is for shooting other flyers down with.
If the Riptide gets Large Blast I think it's fairly same to assume the Hammerhead variant will. Blast on the Sunshark would still be useful in case there are no fliers, or if they've dropped to Hover mode. Also, one or both of the fliers apparently has a 360 fire arc anyway, so positioning isn't going to matter overly much. Annoyingly.

As you say, the Pathfinders and drones will benefit immensely. Hence why I think it should be Gets Hot and have a cooldown turn.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: InsaneTD on March 29, 2013, 04:36:26 am
360 fire arc doesn't matter if you can't fire below the horizontal. Line of site is from the weapons barrel on vehicles.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on March 29, 2013, 05:31:36 am
Weapons have a -20 degree depression and a 45 degree elevation unless the weapon can physically move further. I know that was in the last rule book for weapons that were fixed. Can't remember if it in this one.

Ok, edit time, having now seen the new White Dwarf.

Overcharging your Ion weapons WILL cause Gets Hot. Im not sure if you will have to cool down, but it doesn't seem so from the report.

Looks like the Hammerhead no longer gets submunition as standard. I can live with that I think. If they are now the only source of S10 AP1, you'll need every solid shot you can make. And the job of the submunition is easily done by other units.

The Riptide is a total monster. It also seems that the extra Nova Reactor may cause damage just by using it. It can boost the Ion Accelerator and/or the Shield Generator to above normal performance, but at a cost, so might be a thing to use sparingly, as you have the standard fusion reactor to work with the rest of the time.

The detachable Interceptor Drones from the fliers are a nice touch, not sure how they will count towards scoring, or if they can carry on if the host aircraft dies, but they could provide some excellent additional firepower.

Supporting Fire plus Overwatch at BS2 with a small upgrade means that you are going to put a serious dent in anything that is charging at you.

So far, I like what I am seeing.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: InsaneTD on March 29, 2013, 02:41:40 pm
I don't like most of what I just heard. One of the reasons I went to hammerheads was submunitions. The only  thing I liked then was interceptor drones.

Does it give a release date?
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on March 29, 2013, 03:57:17 pm
Not in the magazine. But there is a picture out there that says 6th April iirc.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on March 29, 2013, 04:33:17 pm
Supporting Fire plus Overwatch at BS2 with a small upgrade means that you are going to put a serious dent in anything that is charging at you.
Yeah, that i do not like. Tau have good enough firepower already without being able to Overwatch with multiple units and a better BS than anyone else. I get that if Tau end up in combat the unit in combat is all but lost, but combat's hard enough to reach for plenty of armies now given the reduction of cover and FNP, the introduction of Overwatch and random charge range. Adding Supporting Fire and BS2 Overwatch is too much in my opinion.

I don't like most of what I just heard. One of the reasons I went to hammerheads was submunitions. The only  thing I liked then was interceptor drones.
He did say they don't get it as standard. I wouldn't be surprised if it was still an option.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on March 29, 2013, 06:39:36 pm
You can still get Submunition, but the way it was presented made it seem like it had bee purchased as an option.


"Heavy Support
Shas'la T'au Sha'ng
Hammerhead Gunship with submunition rounds, disruption pods and Commander Longstrike."

From the bat rep.

Sounds like submunitions are optional now.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Dra'Tuisisch-Novae on March 30, 2013, 12:12:47 am
*Ahem*

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCatsLarge.jsp?catId=cat440160a&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k

PREORDERS AWAAAYYY!

Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: pepsi on March 30, 2013, 12:26:12 am
Tau Codex preordered. Will see if it is up to snuff :P
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Allfather on March 30, 2013, 12:44:00 am
Maaaan if only I had the expendable income to get the Battlesuit Collection. Holy crap they look magnificent. You even get the OG Stealth Suits.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: pepsi on March 30, 2013, 12:45:36 am
Personally waiting to see what Farsight is up to. Last place they left of he was getting his butt handed to him by a new group of orks that really loved shooting things.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Osiris on March 30, 2013, 02:02:27 am
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCatsLarge.jsp?catId=cat440160a&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k

pre-order is now up. and boy oh boy the price tags on some of the kit. DAMN.


AND I WAS NINJA'D  :facepalm001:
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on March 30, 2013, 02:24:15 am
That battlesuit kit, so so so expensive. Its madness!
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Dra'Tuisisch-Novae on March 30, 2013, 03:56:48 am
AND I WAS NINJA'D  :facepalm001:

MUAHAHAHAHA!

Ahem. Could someone with iBooks confirm what the price of the new 'dex for iPad is?
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: InsaneTD on March 30, 2013, 04:40:03 am
You can still get Submunition, but the way it was presented made it seem like it had bee purchased as an option.


"Heavy Support
Shas'la T'au Sha'ng
Hammerhead Gunship with submunition rounds, disruption pods and Commander Longstrike."

From the bat rep.

Sounds like submunitions are optional now.
I'll just go back to broadsides. Be cheaper points wise.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on March 30, 2013, 09:50:44 am
Broadsides don't give you full fat railguns anymore though. You get the diet version.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Allfather on March 30, 2013, 12:23:12 pm
Yeah but they used the Forgeworld Broadside design, which is awesome.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Narric on March 30, 2013, 01:22:42 pm
Longstrike looks like hes trying to be a DJ

Darkstrider looks lie the legs are to wrong way round. Thats just my opinion on the pose. They look unstable, and likely to fall over if they fired their Carbine.

I'm concerned the new Comander kit is not very posable. All the pictures show the same leg pose, and the arms seem to have the hands molded on.

Farsight looks ok, but Anybody with the old pieces could have pulled off the same pose. Again, he seems to be pre-made to have a single pose. Not very customisable :(

Cadre Fireblade looks like hes about to throw his Bonding Knife down in disgust. And anyone else notice that the Bonding knife, looks more like a combat knife, rather than a Ceremonial Blade?

The Pathfinders are just a collosal "Fuck You" to any person (Like myself) who used the Fire Warriors box to covert their own Pathfinders. It isn't need. The Drones could have been their own little box, along with the PF special Weapons. Oh, would you look at that, one PF is holding an infantry size Ion weapon. So much for Tau not utilizing "Heavy Weapons" on organic troops :facepalm001:

Looks like they have simply combined the Hammerhead and Sky Ray into one kit. Anyone who can do math would have seen this coming from years ago, and its surprising they've waited until now. Oh wait, it isn't a surprise, the price is probably £10 more just for being the same as befre. >:(

Broadside looks cool. I admit, I never tried to convert my Broadsides to this design myself, mostly because I never bought the actuall Broadside Kit (I convert my own Railguns, god dammit).

People complaining about those little rails on the Sun Shark shouldn't worry. They're a seperate piece to the main body, so not having them is completely optional. I can't really comment on it further, as I dont know what it can do :P

Now we're getting to something which is shocking. The XV8 Crisis Team, is actually cheaper then buying three battlesuits individually. Holy Shit GW, maybe ther is hope for you yet!! But one kit among many is not going to save you ass.

The Riptide isn't my cup of tea. From a design point of view, it just doesn't really "work" in my mind. That waist joint just screamS "I'M THE WEAK SPOT, FOCUS ATTENTION HERE!!!" One idea that comes to mind is a scale up Tau army. Sort of inquisitor Scale. Use suitably converted XV8s to represent Fire Warriors, and the Riptide to represent XV8s :P That would give Converters something to chew on.

On the subject of the "Collections." GW seems to havelearnt its lesson from the Flyers release. The Recon Team is cheaper than buying seperately, though the Kroot Merc collection just about matches seperate pricing.

Its sttrange to see a Tyranid collection amongst the Tau stuff, but by the name, I'd assume its supposed to represent the main threat to the Tau Empire, as per new fluff given in the codex.

This is just my thoughts on all this.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: InsaneTD on March 30, 2013, 01:33:05 pm
The prices listed here, are the same or in a couple cases, cheaper. :shocked:

All named characters and the commander model are fine cast. The WD just about confirms they are as is, no way to pose them without conversion.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Dra'Tuisisch-Novae on March 30, 2013, 03:44:46 pm
Quote
The Pathfinders are just a collosal "Fuck You" to any person (Like myself) who used the Fire Warriors box to covert their own Pathfinders. It isn't need.

The Fire Warriors box is two editions old, and they haven't gotten an update. The plastic Pathfinders aren't an intentional affront to people who converted their own, it's an opportunity to a) refresh something that GW seems to be trying to kill off (high-volume metal models) and b) refresh the boggo Fire Warriors indirectly by giving tons of conversion options.

Quote
Oh, would you look at that, one PF is holding an infantry size Ion weapon. So much for Tau not utilizing "Heavy Weapons" on organic troops  :facepalm001:

That notion has been dead since Rail Rifles came out... an edition or an edition and a half ago? Besides, Pathfinders aren't line troops, they're specialists who rely on stealth and ambush and can't always rely on Battlesuit support. The Tau are supposed to be one of the few races that adapt and innovate - adjusting tactics in the face of realizing "holy shit, this galaxy is full of giant monsters and power-armoured super soldiers who can shrug off our infantry weapons" only makes sense ;).
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: SILK on March 30, 2013, 11:44:10 pm
Quote
Longstrike looks like hes trying to be a DJ

Once seen, can't be unseen....

Quote
Darkstrider looks lie the legs are to wrong way round. Thats just my opinion on the pose. They look unstable, and likely to fall over if they fired their Carbine.

They're perfectly fine. Suppose it's just the angle of the pictures.

Quote
I'm concerned the new Comander kit is not very posable. All the pictures show the same leg pose, and the arms seem to have the hands molded on.

Never stopped people from converting crisis suits, so why should it stop you with a resin kit?

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Farsight looks ok, but Anybody with the old pieces could have pulled off the same pose. Again, he seems to be pre-made to have a single pose. Not very customisable

You seem to have contradicted yourself a little bit here ;) New stuff to work with is always something that I am happy to have, just takes a little more effort than just getting it out of the box fully poseable. But I suppose that's what we get for being non-marine players.
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Cadre Fireblade looks like hes about to throw his Bonding Knife down in disgust. And anyone else notice that the Bonding knife, looks more like a combat knife, rather than a Ceremonial Blade?

"Im fed up of these mutha huffin Orks in ma mutha huffin lines!"

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The Pathfinders are just a collosal "Fuck You" to any person (Like myself) who used the Fire Warriors box to covert their own Pathfinders. It isn't need. The Drones could have been their own little box, along with the PF special Weapons. Oh, would you look at that, one PF is holding an infantry size Ion weapon. So much for Tau not utilizing "Heavy Weapons" on organic troops

I call bullshit on that level of paranoia. Reason as to why people converted their own pathfinder teams = because there were no plastic pathfinders available and the metal ones were stupid expensive. So when we get shiney new plastics....

As for heavy weapons not being available for standard troops? They were present in chapter approved a long time before the current Tau codex in the form of rail rifles as others have pointed out. Also, as Novae pointed out, another infantry boxed set for the Tau is most welcome. Especially when you consider that we only had one, for around a decade, to do all of the converting work with.


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Looks like they have simply combined the Hammerhead and Sky Ray into one kit. Anyone who can do math would have seen this coming from years ago, and its surprising they've waited until now. Oh wait, it isn't a surprise, the price is probably £10 more just for being the same as before.

Warhammer 40,000 is expensive. We get it already. I'm just happy that I'm sat on three of them already, so I don't need any more.

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Broadside looks cool. I admit, I never tried to convert my Broadsides to this design myself, mostly because I never bought the actuall Broadside Kit (I convert my own Railguns, god dammit).

Good. Nice to see that the eventual release of the tau codex has created something good for you.

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Now we're getting to something which is shocking. The XV8 Crisis Team, is actually cheaper then buying three battlesuits individually. Holy Shit GW, maybe ther is hope for you yet!! But one kit among many is not going to save your ass.

Still better than nothing. I'll take a £5 saving any day.


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The Riptide isn't my cup of tea. From a design point of view, it just doesn't really "work" in my mind. That waist joint just screams "I'M THE WEAK SPOT, FOCUS ATTENTION HERE!!!"

It's a fuckhuge robot of destruction with a mahussive chaingun from Doom. Whats not to love?

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On the subject of the "Collections." GW seems to havelearnt its lesson from the Flyers release. The Recon Team is cheaper than buying seperately, though the Kroot Merc collection just about matches seperate pricing.

Good.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Osiris on March 31, 2013, 01:06:15 am
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440160a&prodId=prod1990132a

dafuq is that. 85 USD for that model...it better be plated gold or silver for that amount of money. :/ i remember when Stormravens came out and were about 65 USD. GW is murdering my wallet...

Looks like a great new release though, will be interesting to see how many people pick Tau up now.

*i also find that the new bundles seem (seem to be the operative word) cheaper than purchasing each set individually, but it leads to the question of, are these only temporary releases?
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Carrelio on March 31, 2013, 01:48:57 am
The release bundles work out to be dollar for dollar identical to buying stuff independently, at least for the Canadians (with our $100 riptides).
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: salamut2202 on March 31, 2013, 04:59:32 am
I don't like the Cadre Fireblade, it looks out of place. He looks, eh, well dressed? Or maybe, he's an ethereal who's been given some combat gear? It looks something not for a tau battle field. It would be sorta like if a soldier was wearing an Army Service Uniform of formal attire showing rank and medals rather than combat gear. Like, if there's a ceremony of military tattoo the Shas'el instead of being in his combat gear (for example, an XV8) would wear that. I know it has to look distinguished because this is a potential warlorf but it seems to erks a little too far away from the practical, pragmatic nature of the efficient Tau'va war machine.

I have determined that I do not like the latest  XV88. It looks so awkward. I mean the Default XV8 chassis is far from great but this looks so bad in so many ways. The railguns seemed perfectly at home on the shoulders - it gave an idea that they were cumbersome and it made sense that things either side of the head would be useful aiming the extremely cumbersome gun of doom. Even when you take the anti air aspect into consideration, it still seems much easier to visualize on the shoulders than that. Them holding it like a rifle is hilarious, it looks absolutely unaimable. Both of its arms are almost straight in front of it, it doesn't leave much room for moving it around which is the only advantage I could see as holding it all gun style like that. I'm also not a fan of the bits hanging off the back but I that doesn't erk me too much.

The riptide is everything I was expecting from it. The XV104 is my close second favourite behind the XV9.

I sorta like the flyer now. It looks like it's less fast and ore maneuverable than the delta wing inspired barracuda (yeah, I'm not an aeronautics engineer) that can stick to apart battlefield a lot more and be more involved in supporting ground engagements (Not a military strategist either :P ).

All the new characters are looking cool and the plastic pathfinders and new drones also look cool.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on March 31, 2013, 10:27:06 am
Aiming an 88 railgun doesn't need much in the way on manuverability though. Where the slug is going to go would show on the suits HUD, and at long range you would only need slight adjustments to stay on target.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: InsaneTD on March 31, 2013, 01:31:20 pm
Indeed, there is no other way to aim them. Aren't fire warriors supposed to have the same system in their armour?
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on March 31, 2013, 02:01:39 pm
Something similar I would assume. Some kind of Iron Man style thing.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: Dra'Tuisisch-Novae on March 31, 2013, 03:27:46 pm
Aiming an 88 railgun doesn't need much in the way on manuverability though. Where the slug is going to go would show on the suits HUD, and at long range you would only need slight adjustments to stay on target.
Indeed, there is no other way to aim them. Aren't fire warriors supposed to have the same system in their armour?


Bingo. I believe Fire Warriors use normal "down the sights" aiming, given how they always seem to be sighting weapons normally when they fire, but Battlesuits have optics linked directly to the pilot's HUD. Space Marine bolters and pretty much all Eldar weapons are supposed to work the same way, so it's not unusual in-universe.

Also, remember that the Battlesuit's head is just an optics and sensor unit, and that the pilot sits in the chest - so even if the optic links failed completely he or she could probably open an access port and have an easier time sighing down the barrel than the model suggests ;). Personally, I always liked to think of the horizontal slit on a Crisis's centre torso as a viewport for in case the suit had a total sensor/optics failure.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: knightperson on March 31, 2013, 11:34:18 pm
Ya know, I never thought of that, but considering that the pilot is generally assumed to be curled up in the torso that mail slot as a view port makes perfect sense!

I'm neutral on a lot of the new models. The skyshark is pretty expensive, and I don't see the point of making it rather than the barracuda (especially since I already own a 'cuda, dammit), but it is a fairly attractive model. I'd like to say I'm not going to buy one, but I'd probably be lieing.

I'm not digging the new broadsides. As an occasional conversion the heavy bolter pose was kinda cool, but I don't like the idea as the new standard. If the railgun, or heavy rail rifle as it apparently is now going to be, is so integral to the design of the suit, why does it look like the suit just found it lieing on the ground and picked it up??? I think the weapons belong in the arms or on the shoulders like the rest of the battlesuits, but I already have 8 of the silly things so I'm not likely to need more anytime soon.

Anybody else think the devilfish in the Pathfinder Recon Team looks a little different? Maybe it's the angle or the paint scheme, but it seems sleeker somehow than I remember.

Darkstrider actually looks pretty cool, and if I continue using pathfinders I might get one to represent a squad leader even if I don't like the rules for the character.

Not thrilled with Longstrike. In the pose of him in the tank hatch he looks like an old man yelling "Get off my lawn, you dagnab kids."  And didn't I see that cowled armor in Mass Effect?

And finally, are those kroot hounds STILL not plastic? We have fairly desperately needed plastic kroot hounds all through 5th edition, and the kroot merc package doesn't say anything about their material.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: InsaneTD on April 01, 2013, 01:08:02 am
Didn't hounds go finecast with everything else? Plastic would nice.

 I'm pretty sure the WD listed the flyer kit as cheaper then the sky/head kit.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: SILK on April 03, 2013, 10:01:10 am
http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/tau-codex-qna.html?showComment=1364932646454

Apparently someone got hold of the spanish version early, this link includes what has been translated from blurry photos.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on April 03, 2013, 10:07:02 am
The first comment with the address to From The Fang has some good stuff aswell, a little of a unit break down. Cheaper Crisis suits and Firewarriors, who get Photons for free now.

I am seeing Tau now as the go to AA army.
Title: Re: February Tau Rumours
Post by: The Allfather on April 03, 2013, 12:54:55 pm
El Cataclismo!!

I'm calling the Riptide that from now on.