Second Sphere

Wargames => Warhammer 40k => Warhammer 40,000 Army Lists => Topic started by: Chris on January 21, 2014, 09:38:09 PM

Title: Tyranids 2000pts [New Codex]
Post by: Chris on January 21, 2014, 09:38:09 PM
Hey guys, so I got my Grubby mitts on the new bugs dex as I really fancied a new challenge and 'nids are simply so different to anything else in 40k, I thought I'd give them a try!
I've done a lil' bit of research into a few good combos, so this isn't just a wish list, but hopefully a fairly good list with a couple of ways to play it... I'll include a few notes as to why I chose each unit, C&C is most welcome!

HQ
- Swarm Lord: 285
Such an awesome model and the rules for him make him almost unmissable at 2000pt levels. His +1 to all reserve rolls will be very useful!

- Hive Tyrant: Wings, Indescribable Horror, Lash Whip and Bone Sword, : 230
So this fella is a huge points sink. The idea being I need something which can rapid respond to wraithknights and riptides being put on the board. I intend on walking him with the swarm, but he has the wings to enable him to get to where he is needed fast/ Poison (4+) is always welcome too!

Troops
- Termagant Brood x30 :120
- Termagant Brood x30 :120

What's a tyranid army without a small swarm eh? This could be a huge pain in the ass to anyone who has to stare down 30 fleshborer shots, or to find them simply sat on an objective!
-Tervigon - 195
- Tervigon - 195

And What Termagant horde would be complete without a few of these... Taking a brood of 30 means I get to put a Tervi' in as a troops choice... Sit them in the middle of each brood, they can churn out reinforcements, provide synapse and hopefully be casting Catalyst on their broods

Elites
- Venomthrope :45
- Venomthrope :45

I foresee these badboys becoming very popular. They are cheap and give shrouded. Plant them in the swarms to boost my survivability as we march across the board. They are also suprisingly proficient in CC thanks to poison again!

Heavy
- Trygon Prime: 230
Hopefully will be my first thing to come in from reserves (especially with the +1 from the Swarmlord), acts as frontline synapse, and give me the option to have my horde begin to arrive from his tunnel too (although that may be too slow)

- Mawloc :140
More out of intrigue, he sounds fun and its always useful to be able to break up gunlines by dropping a monsterous creature on them before disappearing and doing again! Can be a bit risky, but I think its worth the effort!

- Carnifex Brood x3, 3x Thresher Scythes Tail. :390
The punch behind the horde... I'm thinking of running these up a flank with the tyrant so making the opposition choose between 100+ minis which will hurt, or 4 minis which will REALLY hurt.

[Total: 1995]
And that's about it really... What are your thoughts?
Title: Re: Tyranids 2000pts [New Codex]
Post by: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on January 21, 2014, 11:28:59 PM
Poison on the Tyrant is useless. Most things you'll be up against you'd wound on a 2+, which is better than 4+ with a re-roll. (fairly sure that's how Poison works, though it has been a while :-\ ) I'd drop it and spend the points elsewhere.

Adrenal glands are similarly useless. The initiative boost from the Lash Whip should be more than enough, and +1S isn't that worthwhile because you get 2D6 + S against vehicles and wound most infantry on a 2+ anyway.

With the points freed up from those you can take either Old Advesary, making your Tyrant nastier in combat than both of the above combined would, or Hive Commander, allowing you to Outflank a Tervigon and start spawning Termagants on your opponent's doorstep, allowing the rest of your horde to move up with less fire coming at them.

Rest of the army looks fairly solid. Lacking in range, but that's how I like my Tyranid armies anyway. :P
Title: Re: Tyranids 2000pts [New Codex]
Post by: Chris on January 22, 2014, 12:14:21 AM
Thanks for the input.
You're right on with how the poison work, but I have it so that I'm able to hurt the big monsterous creatures (like riptides and wraithknights)... My understanding of it is, the highest I'd have to roll to wound something ever would be 4, so for the biggies i'm wounding on a 4, but for the smallers then it can be 2+... I may be wrong though...
Title: Re: Tyranids 2000pts [New Codex]
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on January 22, 2014, 12:31:01 AM
With poison you can  reroll to wound if your S is over their T can't you?
Title: Re: Tyranids 2000pts [New Codex]
Post by: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on January 22, 2014, 12:40:08 AM
Quote from: Chris on January 22, 2014, 12:14:21 AM
Thanks for the input.
You're right on with how the poison work, but I have it so that I'm able to hurt the big monsterous creatures (like riptides and wraithknights)... My understanding of it is, the highest I'd have to roll to wound something ever would be 4, so for the biggies i'm wounding on a 4, but for the smallers then it can be 2+... I may be wrong though...
The way I remember it is that you need a 4+ at all times but if you would need less (3+ or 2+) then you'd be able to reroll. So against Marines you'd need a 4+ rerollable, which is statistically worse than needing a 2+. As I said, most of what you'll come up against is T3 or 4, making the Poison detrimental against all but a few opponents.
Title: Re: Tyranids 2000pts [New Codex]
Post by: Brassclaw on January 22, 2014, 02:50:42 AM
I think your math on the Tyrant is a bit off, i have him priced at 255. Still I'm in agreement with Mkoll, Toxin Sacs and Adrenal glands are a bit of a waste buys, unless your buddies are wraithguard fiends. I run mine with 2 sets of Scything Talons, Wings and Old Adversaries, and hes come in at a pretty lean 215pts   
Title: Re: Tyranids 2000pts [New Codex]
Post by: Chris on January 23, 2014, 12:07:22 PM
Hmm... I'll check and perhaps re-work the Tyrant...
If I was wrong then perhaps I could get a Crone in there....
They just look fun with they're S8 Vector Strikes....
Title: Re: Tyranids 2000pts [New Codex]
Post by: Chris on January 23, 2014, 02:31:12 PM
Turns out you were correct! I also took out the Toxin and Adrenal on him, I toyed with the idea of getting a small unit of Gargoyles just to be annoying and fly around blinding people (just for poops and giggles really) But I decided otherwise...
Title: Re: Tyranids 2000pts [New Codex]
Post by: CoffeeGrunt on January 23, 2014, 03:14:54 PM
A heads up on Poison.

In CQC, Poison means you can always Wound on at least a 4+. If you could Wound on a better roll, due to your Strength being greater than the opponent's Toughness, you can, but you'll never be worse than 4+. You also re-roll Wounds on Poison if your Strength is greater than their Toughness.

Ranged Poison doesn't have this because all ranged Poison weapons are considered to be Strength 1.
Title: Re: Tyranids 2000pts [New Codex]
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on January 23, 2014, 03:45:07 PM
So you could get 3 or even 2+ re-rollable? Nice.
Title: Re: Tyranids 2000pts [New Codex]
Post by: CoffeeGrunt on January 23, 2014, 05:19:14 PM
Hence why you should never discount it on a high Strength unit, though people often do.
Title: Re: Tyranids 2000pts [New Codex]
Post by: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on January 23, 2014, 10:49:29 PM
Quote from: CoffeeGrunt on January 23, 2014, 03:14:54 PM
A heads up on Poison.

In CQC, Poison means you can always Wound on at least a 4+. If you could Wound on a better roll, due to your Strength being greater than the opponent's Toughness, you can, but you'll never be worse than 4+. You also re-roll Wounds on Poison if your Strength is greater than their Toughness.
Interesting. When did this change? I always thought 4+ poison meant you always wounded on 4+ but could reroll if you normally needed better. Is it a 6th ed change or something that was put in an errata I missed?
Title: Re: Tyranids 2000pts [New Codex]
Post by: The Man They Call Jayne on January 23, 2014, 11:28:52 PM
It's in 6th core rule book. I knew there had been a boost, just wasnt certain to what extent.
Title: Re: Tyranids 2000pts [New Codex]
Post by: Waaaghpower on January 26, 2014, 12:01:27 AM
You're incredibly lacking in Anti-Aircraft. Your Hive Tyrant is the only model who can reasonably hit flyers, with his Vector Strike, but D3+1 S6 hits on side armor aren't much. If you're facing a Helldrake, Storm Talon, or for that matter any 12-12-10 or 12-12-12 vehicle, you will barely be able to scratch it. 2 or 3 Helldrakes will end you where you stand, since they wound your entire army on 2-4, penetrate everyone's armor, ignore your cover saves, and you've got jack to hurt them. Even Dakkajets, the Ork answer to airplanes which are trademarked as easy to kill, won't be taken down by most of your army and can fly around completely unimpeded once your Hive Tyrant goes down.
I'd at least give him Devourers, with BS4 he's even better than last edition at hunting flyers, and really your only good codex choice.

As for the rest of your list... It'll do great against scissors, but fail pretty badly against paper. It looks like somewhere on the far extreme of the 'Completely win or completely lose' spectrum. You've realistically got 5 models on the board that, once they die, the game is over. (Your 5 Synapse models.)  If your enemy doesn't bring enough AP3 or High Strength/Poisoned weaponry, they'll immediately lose because they can't knock out your synapse monsters (Unless, of course, they brought Aircraft, since you've got no Anti Air). If you do face an enemy like that, though, (Say, spammed Lootas, a bunch of Long Fangs, the aforementioned Helldrakes,) you'll lose in a couple turns once your synapse is gone.
Personal Preference, the Swarmlord isn't all too good without a retinue, (He dies far too quickly without 3 Tyrant Guard,) and he's too expensive with... Drop for another Hive Tyrant with wings and devourers. (You really do need some Anti Air if you want a chance.)

If I were to edit it, I'd swap your HQ for two Flyrants with devourers, and spend the rest of your points on prayer to the God-Emperor. There's not much else your codex can do, that I can think of.
Keep the Venomthropes just within 6" of everyone, as well bubble wrapped as Possible. With your Gants in front and big gribblies behind them, everyone except for the body-shields have a 3+ cover save unless your opponent can take out the Venomthropes. Not bad.
Title: Re: Tyranids 2000pts [New Codex]
Post by: CoffeeGrunt on January 26, 2014, 12:58:17 AM
Quotebut D3+1 S6 hits on side armor aren't much.

Strength 7, so not too bad.
Title: Re: Tyranids 2000pts [New Codex]
Post by: Waaaghpower on January 26, 2014, 03:28:25 AM
Quote from: CoffeeGrunt on January 26, 2014, 12:58:17 AM
Quotebut D3+1 S6 hits on side armor aren't much.

Strength 7, so not too bad.
Since when is a Hive Tyrant S7?
Title: Re: Tyranids 2000pts [New Codex]
Post by: CoffeeGrunt on January 26, 2014, 11:52:28 AM
Vector Strikes are S7, AP3, Ignores Cover.
Title: Re: Tyranids 2000pts [New Codex]
Post by: Waaaghpower on January 26, 2014, 01:57:49 PM
Quote from: CoffeeGrunt on January 26, 2014, 11:52:28 AM
Vector Strikes are S7, AP3, Ignores Cover.
Vector Strikes hit at the users unmodified Strength. The exception is Helldrakes, who have a special rule since they can't normally Vector Strike.
Title: Re: Tyranids 2000pts [New Codex]
Post by: CoffeeGrunt on January 26, 2014, 07:07:12 PM
The Crone has an S8 Vector Strike, though. I'll read into it next time I'm down my local...
Title: Re: Tyranids 2000pts [New Codex]
Post by: Chris on January 27, 2014, 02:02:20 PM
Yup, Crone is S8 Vector strike. But that is due to a special rule...

Ok, So I will look into dropping the Swarm Lord and a 'fex(for now at least) and maybe get a Crone or two.. That should make up for some of that whilst still maintaining the anti- armour. Only issue would then be the Synapse. I'd need to keep my tyrant airborne and some how keep the birdies within his range... That could be a challenge!

I have heard in a lot of places, 'nids are very much a 'table your opponent or lose quick' army... Sounds fun as opposed to the constant attrition of SM on SM...

As for Anti-flyer, I'm not overly bothered by that.. The group I tend to play with don't use them too much, it tends to be the big shiny ground toys...

As for the discussion on venom, do you reckon it's worth putting it back on the tyrant?
Title: Re: Tyranids 2000pts [New Codex]
Post by: CoffeeGrunt on January 27, 2014, 03:21:12 PM
Getting re-rolls against most targets in melee seems pretty great, IMO.

Our local Nid player is loving the new 'Dex. He's very much a swarm of fangs and teeth player, so the game is about cutting them down before they close in, which isn't easy!
Title: Re: Tyranids 2000pts [New Codex]
Post by: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on January 27, 2014, 06:17:10 PM
To be honest, I'd seriously consider keeping the Swarmlord. His Warlord Trait + Dominion (Primaris psychic power) means he can regularly have a Synapse range of 24". if you're dropping a Carnifex I'd get Tyrant Guard for Swarmlord. i know you do have quite a bit of synapse already, but the sheer range of this guy, plus his other rules like +1 to reserves and having an invulnerable save in combat is very useful.

If you want to get a Crone involved I'd drop the Mawloc instead or maybe a Tervigon. The Mawloc's deep strike ability is nice, but in terms of combat capability it is fairly limited unfortunately, only WS3 as I recall.
Title: Re: Tyranids 2000pts [New Codex]
Post by: Chris on January 27, 2014, 10:39:32 PM
Hmm... I can see what you mean about the Mawlok, Although to be honest, I don't really want him locked in combat.
The idea with him is to deepstrike, wipe out a considerably amount of a squad (using both template blasts if needed) then burrow again... Chances are I'll get to do that twice, I'll need to play test him at somepoint, but if nothing else, the threat of him should stop an opponant castling up on an objective...
Title: Re: Tyranids 2000pts [New Codex]
Post by: CoffeeGrunt on January 27, 2014, 10:57:37 PM
Only thing I'd say about buffing the Swarmlord's Synapse like that, is that it makes him a big target that will disassemble your army when he dies.
Title: Re: Tyranids 2000pts [New Codex]
Post by: Scout Sergeant Mkoll on January 27, 2014, 11:23:49 PM
Quote from: CoffeeGrunt on January 27, 2014, 10:57:37 PM
Only thing I'd say about buffing the Swarmlord's Synapse like that, is that it makes him a big target that will disassemble your army when he dies.
It does, which is why I suggested the Tyrant Guard, and also keeping the rest of the Synapse so that there's a considerable backup web too.

Quote from: Chris on January 27, 2014, 10:39:32 PM
Hmm... I can see what you mean about the Mawlok, Although to be honest, I don't really want him locked in combat.
The idea with him is to deepstrike, wipe out a considerably amount of a squad (using both template blasts if needed) then burrow again... Chances are I'll get to do that twice, I'll need to play test him at somepoint, but if nothing else, the threat of him should stop an opponant castling up on an objective...
The castling prevention is handy, but you can't Deep Strike and then burrow in the same turn, so your opponent could potentially sacrifice a unit to keep the Mawloc in combat, preventing you from repeating the trick. However, as you say, playtesting first is a good idea as we're working solely on theory at the minute.
Title: Re: Tyranids 2000pts [New Codex]
Post by: Chris on February 06, 2014, 12:35:44 PM
So I posted this over on 40konline Tyrannid thread, they seem to reckon changing the Trygon Prime for another Mawloc. They're really rating this fella!

I'm gunna download Vassal and do some playtests as its looking like I won't be buying anything new until at least summer....