http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=cat440134a&categoryId=1000018§ion=&pIndex=1&aId=3400019&start=2&multiPageMode=true
EDIT:
We seem to have a major buff to night fight. blacksunfilter gives Night version which seems to fully ignored night fight and if I am reading the rules correctly only 1 member of a team needs nightversion and the whole team gets it. yah x3 Broadside squads all shooting via the team leaders blacksunfilter.
Not sure I understand bonding Knife rule.
Wow my biggest complaint has been fixed. Stealth Units with stealth generators now have the Stealth rule. On top of shrouded as well. But more useless wargear. Target locks no longer do anything?
Hmmm, its a start.
What is shrouded though? Actually having stealth now is nice.
Couple interesting things there. The one that really caught my eye was the bit about markerlights in overwatch and not being able to use the counter to fire a missile. That suggests we can use them to boost BS or do other things in overwatch. Makes Network markers worth their weight in gold if that's the case.
Target locks are gone, apparantly. Anyone know why?
Also:
QuoteQ. If a unit with advanced stabilisation systems also has marker drones, can the drones remain stationary to fire their markerlights while the battlesuits move using the advanced stabilisation systems? (p25)
A. Yes
I haven't seen anything about this in the rumours pages, does this mean they're basing whether a model has moved or not on the individual model instead of te unit now?
Quote from: Tybalt Defet on June 30, 2012, 12:05:11 PM
Couple interesting things there. The one that really caught my eye was the bit about markerlights in overwatch and not being able to use the counter to fire a missile. That suggests we can use them to boost BS or do other things in overwatch. Makes Network markers worth their weight in gold if that's the case.
Not too sure myself. Networked drones are 30points a drone and the markerlight itself has to hit on BS 1. I am more curious about do target Arrays work for snap fire.
Am I reading it wrong or does the Tau FAQ contradict itself. One bit says you get cover saves against Smart missiles if you touch the object. Another bit says you only get cover saves that are not based on line of sight.
EDIT: It seems drones have been nerfed and they no longer have Stealth when used in Stealth teams?
Quote from: Mabbz on June 30, 2012, 02:34:05 PM
Target locks are gone, apparantly. Anyone know why?
Maybe they're bringing back Long Fang Devastators and wanted to give us an extra good screwing just in case.
I like this format though. Straight to the point with concrete modifications. ;D
Quote from: Pottsey on June 30, 2012, 03:37:29 PM
EDIT: It seems drones have been nerfed and they no longer have Stealth when used in Stealth teams?
I didn't see that in the FAQ, what gave you that idea?
Quote from: Tybalt Defet on June 30, 2012, 11:08:47 PM
Quote from: Pottsey on June 30, 2012, 03:37:29 PM
EDIT: It seems drones have been nerfed and they no longer have Stealth when used in Stealth teams?
I didn't see that in the FAQ, what gave you that idea?
The FAQ says replace the stealth generator text entry with
Stealth gets transfered to the unit joined by a model with stealth, like how the commisar with stealth pants gives a gaurd mob a cover save.
Quote from: Mabbz on June 30, 2012, 02:34:05 PM
Target locks are gone, apparantly. Anyone know why?
No, and to be honest it's pissing me off! Can somebody point out a way that this is not a blatant slap in the face to the Tau? Like the fact that Relentless already grants the split-fire ability, or that Jetpack does? Why take such a fundamental ability of the Tau battlesuits away from them? This makes no sense to me at all. Even if nobody else in the game can split fire with wargear, it's a shooting ability, and the Tau are (supposed to be) the shootingist army out there, so they should have a trick or two that nobody else can do.
Quote
Also:
QuoteQ. If a unit with advanced stabilisation systems also has marker drones, can the drones remain stationary to fire their markerlights while the battlesuits move using the advanced stabilisation systems? (p25)
A. Yes
I haven't seen anything about this in the rumours pages, does this mean they're basing whether a model has moved or not on the individual model instead of te unit now?
I believe so. Cover saves are also based on individual model now, rather than by squad.
Did they increase unit coherence to go with it?
Quote from: Carrelio on July 01, 2012, 02:06:27 AM
Stealth gets transfered to the unit joined by a model with stealth, like how the commisar with stealth pants gives a gaurd mob a cover save.
Wow that
Quote from: Pottsey on July 01, 2012, 07:37:38 AM
Quote from: Carrelio on July 01, 2012, 02:06:27 AM
Stealth gets transfered to the unit joined by a model with stealth, like how the commisar with stealth pants gives a gaurd mob a cover save.
Wow that
FAQ replaces that discription Zambia. Replaces the whole thing actually.
Quote from: Tybalt Defet on July 01, 2012, 11:27:19 AM
FAQ replaces that discription Zambia. Replaces the whole thing actually.
I stand corrected then :P
It seems to me GW may have just looked at it referring to the target priority thing and decided this was a good way to ruin the split-fire trick as well. I'd like to think this was incompetence rather than malice, but it's just a bad sign. Sixth should probably have been a third-esque redo, but instead we have a whole range of nerfs, buffs, new rules and confusion to work through.
And given that we still had lingering confusion over some things from FOURTH edition I'm not too confident that a fix will come, or if it does I wager the fix will make no friggin' sense like the Plasma Siphon.
To be honest, I rarely if ever used Target locks on anything but my armour anyway. I still want to read the rules but I think I'm gonna really start picking the game back ip.
I will miss target locks a lot... I had 2 for every broadside squad and 1 for every deathrain squad... now I don't... other issues I have with this change are that sniper drones now have to fire at the same unit as the marker did (though they don't have to use that marker light token...), same issue with pathfinder rail rifle teams (though I never took these anyways). Stealth suits with fusion blasters are a little less effective because we can no longer target a vehicle with the blaster while shooting up a nearby squad with the rest of the team (and not wasting shots!).
One thing I have been considering is taking an eldar farseer as an ally, since the divination powers work great with Tau.
Also... new rules to outflanking could have our IC battlesuits teaming up with stealth suits for the outflank if we rolled up for it on the warlord table. Which is kind of coo... not something to be relied upon... but cool.
Edit: Did anyone else notice that Farsight now has one of the strongest power weapons in the game... since it wasn't FAQed it still just straight up ignores armour. Take that marines!
I'm going to try and offer a silver lining to these changes (and copy/paste this to other races aswell)
Target Locks were 5pts a piece. Taking Carrelio's description of a list (assuming three units of BS, and 3 DR units) thats 30pts now loose for other things in the army. We may find that certain lists work better, as other options are either better fit, or are no-longer useless.
Thats the silver lining, now heres something to think about (the salty sugar in the silver spoon).
We curently don't know what a 6th Ed codex is going to contain, norhow it would be written, nor which race it'll even be for when the first comes out.
Quote from: Carrelio on July 01, 2012, 02:43:15 PM
Edit: Did anyone else notice that Farsight now has one of the strongest power weapons in the game... since it wasn't FAQed it still just straight up ignores armour. Take that marines!
I noticed that the moment I saw some of the rules that 6th came out with.
5 S5 I10 attacks on the charge, which are equivelant to Monstrous Creature Attacks? Yep, sounds like Tau :P
It's a "Power Weapon" with a name. Does that not automatically count as being AP3 with 2d6 against Vehicles?
It's not a power weapon, no where in the entry or FAQ does it say the words power weapon, it just says it ignores armour and rolls 2D6+5 against vehicles
But why is Farsight striking at I10 Narric?
Ah right. Awesome. Not sure if it was just the wording but some part of me always thought that because of the mix of 4th ed codex and 5th ed rules that it would hit at Strength + 2d6 + 5. I know it doesnt, but the way its written 2d6+5 seems like the modifier to the Strenght.
Quote from: Carrelio on July 01, 2012, 08:36:36 PM
It's not a power weapon, no where in the entry or FAQ does it say the words power weapon, it just says it ignores armour and rolls 2D6+5 against vehicles
But why is Farsight striking at I10 Narric?
Here be thread of Discussion - http://secondsphere.org/index.php/topic,148240.0.html
Sorry man, but outside of vespid, all our suits and drones are unit type: Infantry (Jetpack), which does not have the hammer of wrath special rule allowing us to make a single I10 attack the turn we assault, but instead allows us to J-S-J.
Are we not Jump Infantry (Jetpack)?
Not under the new errata.
I'm going to quote that info from the Errata, for refrence purposes for this thread. If a Mod wishes me to take it down, I will.
Nah, you're good. It's pertinent to the conversation, and is in a readily accessible document. - MT.Quote from: Tau Empire FAQ and Errata for 6th ed V1.0
Commander, Unit Type
Change Unit Type to Infantry (Jetpack, Character)
Crisis Bodyguard Team & Crisis Battlesuit Team, Unit Type
Change Unit Type to Infantry (Jetpack)
Crisis Battlesuit Team, Unit Type
Change Team Leader/Shas'ui Unit Type to Infantry (Jetpack, Character)
Stealth Team, Unit Type
Change Unit Type to Infantry (Jetpack)
Change Team Leader/Shas'ui Unit Type to Infantry (Jetpack, Character)
Gun Drone Squadron, Unit Type
Change Unit Type to Infantry (Jetpack)
Farsight and Shadowsun same as Commander
Hopefully that clears things up, and informs people not otherwise in the know.
Darn, well thats kinda sucky then.
Having a flip through th Errata and FAQ I'm noticing they've cut chunks of fluff away from the Wargear Entries. Case and point, Bonding Knives were nearly 12 lines of paragraph, now condensed into an easily understandable 3.
Something like that makes me think there may be a lot of Background re-writing going on in Ye Olde Nottingham City. Aun'va guide us :facepalm001:
However, that despite the reduction in fluffiness, it means that Tau's uber-newscience-xeno-tech, now feels more approachable. I'm going to go ahead and say Tau would have been a lot easier for me to understand all those years ago, if the wargear entries were this clear (garaunteed, I still would be the pants gamer I am today).
An interesting point is that under the new rules, Decoy Launchers are worth their points now, as vehicle damage is now on a single chart, and its entry no longer specifies a "Glancing hit" as it did before.
Interestingly, with the change of Target Locks no longer having affect, and combining it with the new Vehicle damage rules. a full unit of Pathfinders, with three Rail Rifles, may be a good choice. three glancing hits could reduce the target vehicles HP, whilst the ML hits increase chances that the next volley of fire against it will take it down.
This makes me think that Tau will work supremely well with co-ordinated Tactics, possibly more so then other armies due to our high Shootiness.
Seeker Missiles seem unaffected if the Vehicle is Shaken/Stunned.
A note on Vehicles Gun Drones and Victory Points:
They DO give VP to the opponent if they detached from the vehicle, before being destroyed.
They DON'T grant VP with they are still attached to the vehicle.
This makes sense, as after detaching, they are two seperate units, whereas before, they are singulare. So don't detach you drones, unless you have to. :P
Thats just my thoughts whilst reading through the Update in front of me on paper. I printed it off you easier ref.
With the new warlord chart puting such emphasis on the HQ spot... should we be considering Shas'O over Shas'el in the future?
Since our HQ options are underpowered relative to the craziness of other HQ's out there, I would look seriously at the Strategic chart. I've played one game of 6th so far (albeit with Chaos Daemons rather than Tau), and the strategic option worked well for me. It heped that our table happened to have ruins available when I rolled Move Through Cover (ruins) and Stealth (ruins), but I think most abilities that help the entire army rather than one unit are good choices. Daemons and Tau might have relatively little in common, but I say the parallel applies in this case because I was using mini-HQ heralds, making my warlord no better than most Tau warlord choices.
Does changing the unit type of Tau jumpy battlesuits from Jump Infantry (Jetpack) to Infantry (Jetpack) mean that the Space Wolves' psychic power killing anyone that fails initiative test works on them now? At Initiative 2? :facepalm001:
Quote from: Watchdog on July 02, 2012, 11:48:23 AM
Does changing the unit type of Tau jumpy battlesuits from Jump Infantry (Jetpack) to Infantry (Jetpack) mean that the Space Wolves' psychic power killing anyone that fails initiative test works on them now? At Initiative 2? :facepalm001:
I'd say yes. Infantry (whatever) is Infantry. JOTWW affects Infantry as a valid target.
From the look of it though that should be all jump infantry now, since they're now an explicit subset of Infantry (and if not why not GW). Which was how Jetbikes were affected because they were a subset of bikes not their own special type of unit. Which was stupid.
I do note that the Space Marine FAQs seem lacking in reclassing jump packs as Infantry (jump) even while Swoopy Normans in the Eldar codex are. But I'm not seeing the Warp Spiders mentioned. Is that in the rulebook, perhaps, or do certain units benefit from GW once again cack-handing an update?
I just found out IC without infiltrate cannot join squads with infiltrate and Characters have precision strike I think it was called, a mini sniper rule. All IC, battlesuits team leaders, Vespid leaders and Shapers among others have on a roll of 6 you can choose which member of the target squad to hit. Say good bye to FNP priests.
Hit and run looks like it
Quote from: Farseer Del on July 02, 2012, 12:46:25 PM
I do note that the Space Marine FAQs seem lacking in reclassing jump packs as Infantry (jump) even while Swoopy Normans in the Eldar codex are. But I'm not seeing the Warp Spiders mentioned. Is that in the rulebook, perhaps, or do certain units benefit from GW once again cack-handing an update?
I'll refer you to the Chaos Space Marine FAQ & Errata, which states that models with Wings or Jump Packs become Jump Infantry, not Infantry (Jump)
I think this is a case where they mean the same thing, but as I do not have the Rulebook in front of me, it may not be the case.
A lot fo people are talking about decoy launchers being buffed... I'm not seeing it. If anything I think they are more situational and still just as dangerous for us to use. At best it negates an immobilized result... middle ground you spent the points and go all game and never use it (if no immobilized hits are rolled), worse end of the spectrum you force a reroll but still end up immobilized (or wrecked if moving flat out)... and worst case, you just upgraded that immobilized result to a wrecked or explode result (and remember... you paid for that to happen). I'm just not seeing it.
As for Precision Strike... it will definitely be a boon, for Tau, especially for HQ battlesuit teams and elites with TL weapons (who have 2 chances to roll 6 to hit), however, characters also get look out sir, which means we likely wont be aiming for characters... much more likely we'll be sniping special weapons (like melta, plasma, or missiles) embedded in a squad.
More nice things about characters... Since our drones are unit type same as controller, any drones on a team leader or better will get character special rule, which means in a challenge we can accept with a shield drone and laugh while space marines overkill 1 poor drone and the rest of our squad fights normally. Actually a great way to bog down power weapons!
Quote from: Carrelio on July 02, 2012, 09:40:34 PM
More nice things about characters... Since our drones are unit type same as controller, any drones on a team leader or better will get character special rule, which means in a challenge we can accept with a shield drone and laugh while space marines overkill 1 poor drone and the rest of our squad fights normally. Actually a great way to bog down power weapons!
Or aggressively challenge people with it. That actually is pretty awesome, and depending on what you are fighting there is even a decent chance the shield drone could win.
So more fun facts about drones. I'm pretty sure we've reached a point where every unit, big or small should have drones of some kind. Why? For sweeping advance, we test by the highest initiative in our unit. Drones are I4. Gun drones on fire warrior squads, shield drones on battlesuits. Now we've actually got a decent chance of getting away to rally again.
I'm gonna pose a quick question to the people whom alrady have the rulebook.
Are Acute Senses and Night Vision the same rule? And if so, it is the rule that negates the affects of Night Fighting for a model of unit containing a model with the rule?
Acute Senses is now to do with Outflanking and determining which side you come in from.
I want to know how you shoot at XV25s. Is is as normal now, or do you shoot at them as if it were night time?
Stealth Field Generators only onfer the Stealth and Shrouded USRs. Meaning the enemy shoots as normal.
They'd only follow Night figting rules, if Night Fighting was in affect table-wide.
Of course, I don't have the rulebook infront of me, so Shrouded may have other effects I don't know.
You know what's crazy? Stealth Suits have both Stealth and Shroud. Page 42 states that Stealth and Shroud are cumulative... which, since Stealth gives a 6+ cover save out in the open... and Shroud boosts cover saves by 2, means our stealth suits out in the open have a 4+ cover save. Standing behind some trees makes our cover saves 2+.
Yep. Stealth teams are now pretty damn awesome. If the Night Fight rules come in to effect they become largely untouchable until you are within 12".
Quote from: The Man They Call Jayne on July 11, 2012, 12:24:05 AM
Yep. Stealth teams are now pretty damn awesome. If the Night Fight rules come in to effect they become largely untouchable until you are within 12".
They gain no benefit unless beyond 36". Shrouded and Stealth will not stack with itself, methinks...
Quote from: Unusual Suspect on July 11, 2012, 01:45:33 AMThey gain no benefit unless beyond 36". Shrouded and Stealth will not stack with itself, methinks...
Sorry, US, it DOES stack. Look it up on page 41 of the rule book... here is the exact quote:
"Cover save bonuses from the Shrouded and Stealth special rule are cumulative (to a maximum of a 2+ cover save)"
Quote from: KCKitsune on July 11, 2012, 02:59:13 AM
Quote from: Unusual Suspect on July 11, 2012, 01:45:33 AMThey gain no benefit unless beyond 36". Shrouded and Stealth will not stack with itself, methinks...
Sorry, US, it DOES stack. Look it up on page 41 of the rule book... here is the exact quote:
"Cover save bonuses from the Shrouded and Stealth special rule are cumulative (to a maximum of a 2+ cover save)"
Show me where it says you can gain the Shrouded and Stealth special rules twice, and I'll concede. Until it says it can be done, I'm going to assume it cannot.
US, in the Tau FAQ & Errata, Stealthfield generators were re-written to simply confer the Stealth and Shroud USR.
I may not have the rulebook in front of me yet, but I trust the chaps who do, so Stealth Suits have a 4+ Cover Saver MINIMUM anywhere on the board.
Quote from: Narric on July 11, 2012, 06:42:13 AM
US, in the Tau FAQ & Errata, Stealthfield generators were re-written to simply confer the Stealth and Shroud USR.
I may not have the rulebook in front of me yet, but I trust the chaps who do, so Stealth Suits have a 4+ Cover Saver MINIMUM anywhere on the board.
I think I perhaps was misinterpreted, and misinterpreted in turn.
To clarify.
1. Shroud and Stealth stack. This is not in contention at all. Says so clearly in the core rulebook.
2. Stealth does not benefit from an additional application of Stealth, and Shrouding does not benefit from an additional application of Shrouding. I'm assuming this is not in contention.
3. Night Fight's conferred bonus defenses, when within 36" but beyond 12", gain either Stealth or Shrouding, while a stealth suit already has both Stealth and Shrouding from their Stealth Field Generator.
4. Thus, a Stealth Squad does not benefit from Night Fighting unless they are more than 36" away.
My earlier comment about "not stacking with itself" was, upon reflection, an apparently unclear version of statement 2. If my response didn't make sense, I apologize and hope the context clears things up. Sorry for the confusion.