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Topics - Waaaghpower

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General 40k and Expansions / Chapter Approved - Thoughts and Commentary
« on: December 02, 2017, 08:02:01 PM »
Having seen all the leaks, I'm gonna just share some thoughts on them here. Mostly about the factions that I play. (But I play a ton of factions, so...)

I'm quite happy with the Sisters of Battle updates. The changes to Celestine are fair, making Gemeni more valuable while keeping Celestine from being an auto-include.
Our Warlord Trait is positively awful (Re-rolls on Leadership is not worth using up a Warlord Trait,) but our Relic is pretty badass - In fact, if we're talking 'Original weapon vs Relic version' it's arguably the best relic weapon in the game, possibly tied with the Teeth of Terra/Blade of the Hydra. Making a Power Sword into a better version of a Relic Blade is great, especially since it gives us our only beatstick HQ outside of Celestine. (For 49pts, a Canonness is now going to be very threatening in Close Combat. I can't think of many CC characters who are gonna be tougher for that cost.)
Oh, and both of our strategems are fantastic - Extra Acts of Faith are beastly, and gives more reason to take cheap characters, since they can give buffs upon death. More importantly, Sisters of Battle now have access to some genuine, fairly good psychic denial that they were previously lacking in.

Space Wolves aren't quite as good in terms of new abilities, but our points cuts are fantastic, bringing everything into line with generic Marines, making TWolves and Wulfen viable (and even good!) again, and making many of our characters cheaper. (Except Arjac, who inexplicably got a 5pt bump for some reason?!)
Our relic weapon is better than nothing, and can make for a fairly good infantry-killer. It's better than the Burning Blade, at least. Our Warlord Trait is badass, which is also really great. The 'True Grit' strategem is a little lackluster, but better than nothing, and the outflank strategem is actually pretty fantastic.

Deathwatch are... Okay. The Warlord Trait is fine, but not amazing. The anti-vehicle Strategem is nice, if you have a Watch Master who likes getting into close combat with vehicles for some reason, but it's too specific and conditional for my taste. The Relic letting units teleport is really great, and the bonus hits on 6s strategem is garbage.

Imperial Knights are kind of a weird one. Everything available is basically just a flat upgrade, kind of a "What's that? You wanted to take Imperial Knights as your main faction? Uh... Okay!"
The Warlord Trait just gives a bonus attack, the relic Sword just gives +1 to Wound against S7 (Okay, it's two higher strength, but semantics aside the effect is the same,) and the Strategem gives +1 to invulns. It's nice for players who want to make a really beefy Knight to lead their army.

I'm very disappointed with Orks. Every other faction I play either got some kind of valuable tool that they previously didn't have access to, very noticeable damage increases, or new mobility options to allow for interesting play.
Orks get some decent price cuts on a few weapons and a couple units, but it's nowhere near the kind of overhaul we really need. (Power Klaws being cheaper is nice, a few other random things are nice, but... Well, making a Shokk Attack Gun 20pts cheaper doesn't make it good, and that's the theme of the whole update.)
Our Relic is better than nothing, but paradoxically makes the Big Choppa worse in at least one regard - Changing a flat 2 damage to d3 damage is a handicap that will make the Warboss using it worse.  It's probably still a better weapon thanks to the better AP (AP-2 as opposed to -1,) and the chance for Mortal Wounds on a 6+ to wound, but honestly it's a huge disappointment.
Our Warlord Trait is worse. +1 Strength is absolute garbage. On a Big Choppa Warboss, it only helps against S8, on a Power Klaw Warboss, it only helps against T7, and on anyone else it doesn't matter in the slightest, because you don't want your Weirdboys or Big Meks to get into Close Combat.
Our Strategems? One is extremely situational, the other is complete crap. Bonus attacks on 6+ to hit in shooting is crap, because we don't get enough shots with enough accuracy for that to matter, and unlike a lot of other factions, we don't even have any way to get +1 To Hit to help with that.
Mob Up is better, combining squads, but it requires pretty specific circumstances and is generally kind of crummy.

All in all, the Imperial updates are great, the Xenos one... Not so much.

So, I'm going to start by acknowledging that, while I'm generally not a fan of 8th edition in a whole bunch of ways, some of that is just personal taste. I was a big fan of the way that 7th edition worked, and losing a lot of elements that were problematic but fun (Like blast templates) seems like a big step in the wrong direction to me.
For many players, those kinds of changes aren't going to be a problem, though. That's just me, not being catered to, because GW has decided that their target audience is elsewhere. I can't really fault them for that, even if it's personally frustrating.


As of yesterday, I got my hands on the Forge World indexes, and they're an absolute... Well, I would like to use a lot of creative vulgarity to describe how bad they are, but it'd all a bunch of squiggles, asterisks, and ampersands. It's bad. It's REALLY bad. Broken rules, bad typos, unplayable models, special rules that have no function, huge imbalance between itself and the GW books, missing wargear choices. On top of this, there are units missing - Mega dreads come to mind, but there are several others. The book reads like a first draft. The Imperial Armor: Astartes book is the only one I got for myself, but I've seen friends' copies of the other three, and they're all just as bad.
(As an aside, the books also feel cheap - The cover art is recycled and uses white Arial text for its title, and unlike the GW indexes, they couldn't even spring for a splash page or a page of flavor text here or there to break up the endless pages of rules - The Astartes book is half the length of any of the GW indexes, too, so it's not like they were just out of room.)

There are some broken GW rules as well, though nothing so egregious as this. Still, I'm going to mention them here - Missing wargear options, weird imbalances in point cost for some things, various nerfs and buffs that seem unfair in various directions, and lots of various army comp choices and tactical options that are missing. (Oh, and as a minor point, the Chaos Vindicator is identical in stats to a regular Vindicator, but has a Power Level of 11 instead of 8. For some reason.)

And whenever I bring this up to apologists, the response I almost invariably get is that "They'll fix it later", either in an FAQ, or in a Chapter Approved, or when Codices come out, or when they do an update. And I'm getting *sick* of hearing that.

Games Workshop is asking money for their products right now, which means that they think that their products are in a state that is worthy of being sold. I understand that they cannot possibly do the amount of playtesting necessary to perfectly balance a game of this scale on their own, which is why I'm not upset about certain questionable balance decisions, but that's no excuse for some of the simply obvious mistakes that have been made in many, many cases. I, a random customer with no background in game design, should not be able to look at a book and see obvious, major imbalances in the effectiveness of some units (Cough*Acts of Faith*Cough). I should especially not be able to look at a rule and immediately see that it doesn't function when there are at least theoretically supposed to be teams of people who are paid to do this for a living. (I can't say for sure, though, because FW stopped accrediting writers.)

Not to mention that GW's fixes of late haven't... really... Been very good. Every broken thing about 7th edition hasn't been rebalanced, it's had a baseball bat taken to its kneecaps so that it'll never walk again. It gives the sense that GW is less concerned with balance and more concerned with showing off that they are trying to fix things. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe they'll stop doing this, but right now I'm under the impression that when it comes time to Start Fixing Things, they'll give a nominal effort to correcting all of the literally broken rules, then take anything that was still overpowered and triple its point cost so that it'll never see the light of a competitive game again.

Games Workshop should fix their products *before* shipping out print copies of books, not after, and I'm honestly surprised that this seems like a radical opinion to some people.

A couple things.
Firstly, Storm Bolters are now far, far better at short-range. Combi-Bolters are better at long range and short. Twin-linked Boltguns are better at all ranges as well.
Secondly, you can now fire ALL of your weapons in the shooting phase, regardless of how many shots you have - No Pistol/Regular Gun combos, but if you have multiple regular guns, all is fair game.
Thirdly, Flamers now cost more for most armies, and have an average number of hits on par with before, but a far greater reliance on luck, and have a much lower cap on hits. (With good positioning taken into account, you're dropping from 6+ hits reliably to 3.5 unreliably.) Also they don't ignore cover anymore.

So, basically, Boltguns are now the best weapon, point-for-point, that most imperials have for killing Infantry en-masse.
Basic Tactical Marines and such are about the same, but things like Sisters of Battle squads, (Who are already 3ppm cheaper,) can now get a whopping 16 Bolter shots for only 57 points, by spamming out Storm Bolters. A Command Squa- Sorry, that is a squad of Company Veterans on bikes can also take Storm Bolters, getting 8 shots each for only 38ppm. That's 40 shots for only 190 points, which is equivalent to what you'd get from 260 points of new marines.
(By the way: Regular Space Marine Bikers are only 5ppm cheaper than Company Veteran bikers, but lose out on access to this cheese since they only get Bolt Pistols, not Boltguns. I do not expect to see regular SM bikers very often.)

So... I'm salty. I don't like this edition. I'm going to try and start with the things that I think are good, but... That's not going to take very long.

So! Armor save modifiers and really high wound values. Both seem like really, really good ideas to me. It allows tanks and vehicles to take a consistent, reliable amount of damage, instead of having to cross your fingers and hope you come out the other side of a shooting phase unscathed. Instead of an all-or-nothing scenario, where even the heaviest of tanks could only take four hits, there is now a lot more room for things to be relied on. I know that my Battlewagon can't be one-shotted by a Meltagun, and so I can feel safer rolling it forward and relying on it to take shots that I need it to take.
Armor save modifiers are also pretty good. They allow light armor to be used once in a while (My Ork Boyz and their T-shirt armor are finally going to get to see some use, since AP5 and AP6 weapons no longer exist,) and make it so that heavy armor can be weakened without being completely taken away. Power Swords now actually fill an important role, instead of being a niche weapon that was wedged between the much more versatile Power Maul and the far stronger Power Axe.

Movement values are another good way to distinguish units that are otherwise similar. Letting one unit be an inch or two faster is a better way to distinguish them than giving out Fleet or other similar buffs. The unit is faster, so let it actually be just straight-up faster.

The changes to cover are also a net positive, in my opinion. It's no longer mandatory for lighter units to hug cover at all times, since the benefit for say, Orks, has been significantly lowered, and is more consistent - You can't have a shrouded unit of Guardsmen taking 2+ saves anymore. However, there's actually a reason to stick Power Armor in cover now.

There's a couple little things I like, too. Running being part of the movement phase is nice. Twin-linked being replaced with straight-up more shots removes some complications, and allows other things that give bonuses to hit to be more useful on more weapons. A few other tweaks seem nice. Command Points seem neat.

All these changes would be great, but they come at what in my mind is a massive, massive cost: By my estimation, about half of the game is just flat-out gone.
This might be a slight exaggeration, but it really doesn't feel like it. The design team at GW seems to have followed the philosophy of 'If it's broken, just remove it wholesale if we can and leave something pointless in its place if we can't.' Vehicles were too fragile, so they removed armor values entirely - And with it, they removed specialized anti-tank weaponry, the dichotomy of different weapon types needed for a TAC list, the strategy of flanking enemy armies to get better shots on tanks, the careful placement you had to make when planning how to fire, and of course the vehicle damage table. Meltaguns are actually bad at killing tanks now, since they wound most heavy tanks on 4s, making them unreliable at best compared to Lascannons or other S9 weaponry.
You can't bring large psychic armies anymore. All powers except Smite are limited to one use per turn, so bringing more than 3 Psykers (Since only 3 powers exist per army) is heavily discouraged.

Blast Templates and scatter dice were sometimes unclear and caused arguments, so they were stripped out and replaced with randomized rolling. Worse, flamer templates - Which didn't have any of those problems - Got stripped out too and are also now just a random, completely unreliable roll. Armies which used to rely on blasts to compensate for a low Ballistic Skill, like Orks and Guardsmen, have had some of their best weapons turned into absolute crapshoots. Even accurate armies like Space Marines now have to rely entirely on luck to get the damage they need - Firing a Vindicator into a large squad can now cause anywhere between 1 and 36 wounds, even if the hit, wound, and save dice all go perfectly. Templates are now just as good against lone soldiers as they are against massive hordes - Where there used to be strategy and careful placement and using ramming or other tricks to set up your opponent for tons of hits and massive damage, you now get random dice.

A bunch of cool weapons have been stripped from the game. The Shokk Attack Gun still exists, but is a shell of its former self that does practically nothing since it never hits, and lacks any of the charm of its old version. (The random chart is gone.) You can't take Artificer Armor for space marines or Power Armor for Inquisitors, you don't have a choice but to get 'eavy armor on Warbosses, most special issue wargear (Auspexes, Attack Squigs, and everything in between) is gone. What special gear still exists has been toned down to be nowhere near as cool or interesting as it used to be - For example, Psycollum used to be available to all Ordo Hereticus Inquisitors, and gave the inquisitor and their unit BS10 when firing against Psykers. It's now only available to Greyfax, and gives her and only her (No unit) the ability to target enemy Psykers even if they aren't the closest unit. That's it.
I could probably compile several posts just listing what gear options have been removed or rendered invalid, but that would take a really long time and I don't feel like investing that much effort, so I'm not going to.

Most vehicle squadrons are gone, for no real reason that I can discern.

Formations are gone. I'm not sad about the removal of some of the more broken formations (Free razorback spam wasn't fun for anyone involved,) but formations as a concept were a lot of fun and some of the better ones made the game far more interesting as a result.

Characters attaching to squads is gone. This is apparently a bid to get rid of Deathstars, but... Death stars were fun. Not the really cheesy ones, sure - Screamerstar was just frustrating - But having a Thunderwolf Lord and his trusted Rune Priest advisor riding in with a pack of wolves was a fun thing to do, and now it's not really an option in the same way. The replacement feels half baked and designed to discourage players from actually bringing characters.

Drop pods still exist, but now inexplicably cost more than 100 points, which makes running a real Drop Pod assault list effectively impossible. (Not to mention that you can no longer transport Terminators or Dreadnoughts inside the pods, for some reason.)

Wolf Guard Terminators are now literally the same as regular Terminators, except that their captian has 1 less Leadership and they don't get a Teleport homer. So they're the same cost with less benefits.

These are just the armies I play, and this is just a small sample of the things that have been either removed or just been broken to the point of unusability. It's also not getting into the fact that 8th edition is clearly launching in an unfinished beta - Things like Chapter Tactics and Ork Clans are clearly supposed to be here, but just don't exist yet, making some chapters play at an explicit disadvantage for no reason whatsoever. (Why am I playing Iron Hands again, when all it does is lock me out of Special Character access with zero benefits?) A lot of armies feel like they really, really need to have all their toys back - Unique detachments, relics, chapter/clan/hive fleet/whatever benefits, unique Warlord Traits - And they just don't. If Games Workshop didn't have time to finish their game, they shouldn't have released it, they should have pushed back a couple more months so that they could release a polished, complete experience that wasn't missing giant chunks of gameplay with tons of stripped out content.

This isn't a balance issue, but the indexes are hot garbage to read and build lists from, just by the way. The units are listed in one section of the book, the optional gear they can take is listed in another nearby section, and then their points cost is in the back of the book and the points cost for their gear is on ANOTHER page in the back of the book. And everything is done in weird integers now. It took me 45 minutes to assemble one list, using a prearranged collection of models - I wasn't building anything with comp, I was literally just adding up points. And it took me 3/4ths of an hour.

I'm glad that Games Workshop are trying to balance their game, but the way they did it - By homogenizing and stripping down to barebones - Seems like the worst possible way to do it. (Also, if I wanted to play Age of Sigmar, I would go play Age of Sigmar. I don't like how the two rulesets seem really, really similar, as though GW isn't capable of running two different types of games and thinks that if they only sell two reskinned versions of the same game they'll be more popular.)

Two last things - 'Wait for the codices' and 'Just play narrative' are not real answers. I've heard both of them, mostly from the manager at my LGS.
Waiting for the codices doesn't work, because the thing I mention above - GW shouldn't release their games in an unfinished state and expect players to pay for the indexes. I don't want to play a broken, unfinished game for however long it takes them to make new codices for all the armies that everyone plays at my LGS.
'Just play narrative' doesn't work, because that relies on players to self-police for balance and effectively house-rule their games into being fun.

So... Those are my opinions. What are yours?

Enemies of the Imperium / 8th Edition TelepOrks
« on: June 09, 2017, 06:13:50 AM »
I played my first game of 8th tonight and already found something that seems so powerful as to be broken, except it can't be broken because it was built into the core of the game as an obvious feature.

A Weirdboy costs 62pts. One power that they can automatically know is Da Jump. Da Jump allows you to select a nearby unit of Orks, teleport it anywhere on the board that is at least 9" from an enemy unit, and set them down.
That unit can charge. You only need to end up within 1" of an enemy unit for the charge to be succesful. Orks can re-roll charges. You need to get an 8, with a re-roll.

Da Jump requires a 7+ on 2d6 to be succesful. HOWEVER. For every 10 Orks within 10" of the Weirdboy, you get a +1 on that roll. With a single horde of Ork Boyz (Which will be nearby anyways, since you're teleporting them,) you need a 4+ to manifest successfully. With two nearby hordes, you need a 1+.

This combo costs 242 points. For that, you can reliably assault with 30 Ork Boyz against any enemy at any spot on the board. This can be done with as many units as you want, points allowing.

Cheese is dead. Long live the cheese.

Forces and Allies of the Imperium / Space Marine Anti-Air Thoughts
« on: April 06, 2017, 11:13:29 PM »
(I'm trying to have discussions here, but it's not that easy when nobody responds...)

I tried out Hunters and Stalkers for the first time yesterday! It was a game against a CSM player - I had an Iron Hands Rhino Rush with a Command Squad on Bikes, the Hunter/Stalker formation, and Chapter Master Smashfather. He had a Death Guard Rhino Rush with a bike squad, the three-Helldrake formation, and a lord on a bike. Mirror match! (I also had a Librarius Conclave and he had Havocs, but that's not a mirror match.  :-\ )

Anyways, it was a close game - I may post a battle report later, because it was pretty cool how it went. I'm not going to regale you with tales here, though, because that's not what this post is for!
This post is for my thoughts on the anti-air.

And overall? Stalkers are pretty great, Hunters are... Less so.

I had something like 320 points of anti-air, three Stalkers and one Hunter, and he brought 510 points of pure Helldrake. Thanks to the insane volume of fire that my Hunters could put out with Interceptor shots, (9 ignores-cover shots per target,) I was able to incapacitate a Helldrake on turn two (I got a hull point on each, and a Weapon Destroyed result on one,) I put two Hull Points on his third Helldrake when it came in turn three, and finished off the weakened one with the working gun when it came in from ongoing reserves on turn four. Ignoring Cover (the bonus for having three) wasn't as big of a deal as it might have been, since he had that 5+ invuln, but it did get me a Hull Point that I wouldn't have gotten otherwise, and being able to fire at multiple targets with a single unit was invaluable for dealing with target saturation, and when there was only a single target, being able to buff up their damage was similarly invaluable. Having these guys didn't just kill fliers for me, it was able to neutralize potential sources of damage before those sources got to hurt me, so they boosted both my offensive AND defensive capabilities.

Unfortunately, in order to bring those Stalkers are part of a Medusa Strike Force, I had to bring in an Anti-Air Defense Force, which meant bringing a Hunter as well.
The Hunter DID actually get me a kill, which was neat. (On the bottom of turn four, I hit the other Helldrake that had a working gun, got past his invuln, and took out his last Hull Point.) It was the only time it got me anywhere, though - Even with Armorbane, a single BS4 shot that doesn't ignore cover is just too unreliable to cause significant damage, and the formation bonus (+1 BS for the Stalkers if they fire at something that the Hunter hit,) is completely useless - Against any decently sized air force, the Stalkers are going to be firing Interceptor every turn, or at least the first couple of turns, which are the most important ones. The Hunter cannot fire Interceptor, so it's not going to be firing with the Stalkers. This effectively nullifies any formation bonus until you get to turn 4 or 5, by which point most fliers *should* be dead.

So, the Stalkers I'm very impressed with, at least if you know you're going to be facing fliers, or at least skimmers. Bringing three for 240 points (You ARE buying Storm Bolters for all of them to soak up Weapon Destroyed results, right?) provides enough AA for just about any potential threat. The Hunters... Well, their model looks nice, and they're not the worst tax you could pay, right?

(If you expect to face FMCs and not Fliers, by the way, the Hunters are a little better - Punching through armor saves is nice, and they actually get to use their formation bonus. Plus, if you take them in a Medusa Strike Force like I did, you can bring two, use PotMS to fire them at two different targets, and then have the Stalkers fire with BS5 at both targets. It's just not good against actual Fliers, which is ironic considering it has Armorbane.)

Forces and Allies of the Imperium / New Triumvurate Tactica?
« on: April 02, 2017, 09:37:20 PM »
I'm looking for ideas here on how to use the new Triumvurate models. The old triumvurate all had fairly obvious roles (Celestine was a tank for fast units, Greyfax was a Hereticus inqusitor with some extra tricks, Cawl was a tank buffer for Imperials,) but I'm struggling to figure out a clear role for the new guys.

Cypher hasn't really changed, but his role is still confused. He provides a defensive buff against shooting, but that's really the only clear benefit I can see, and it's absolutely not worth 190 points. His shooting output isn't significantly better than two Space Marines (one of whom is armed with a Plasma Gun,) and his durability - Even with Eternal Warrior - Is not very good. He can't fight against competent enemies in H2H, since he only gets 2-3 AP2 attacks, even if those attacks are at a very high Initiative.
Worse, his 'Fallen' are simply terrible - 20ppm for a squad of veterans with slightly different weapon choices, and you have to take them in a formation to just get ATSKNF. When you can get Deathwatch Veterans for only 2ppm more, and they get re-rolls on 1s and a bunch of special issue ammo and better wargear choices, it's a no-brainer choice.

Voldus is a bit better, though he's also expensive. Rolling on Librarius powers seems like the ideal here, since with Might of Heroes he can get a buncha high-initiative S10 AP2 attacks, and T6 to help deal with his lack of Eternal Warrior. However, he's not quite good enough as a close combat beatstick for his cost without getting MoH, and if you just need a ML3 psyker and don't care about his CC prowess, then you're better off just taking Tigurius, or just a ML3 Grey Knights Librarian. He's tough and and strong, but he is still just a footslogger, and cost-prohibitive. (Though you can take him in an Inquisitorial Representative detachment to get his Warlord Trait if you want, since he can join any detachment.)

Lastly... Girlyman. He's big, expensive, and... Not exactly slow, since he has move through cover and +1" to his run and charge, but he's not fast either. The best I can see for him is to just use him as an objective denial bubble - He can't chase anyone down, but he can certainly scare units off. (Nobody is going to want to get into a fight with him, after all, and he's tough enough to tank a pretty significant amount of fire.) However, he's awfully expensive, and while he buffs up your army some, he's not going to be as cost effective if you're not playing Ultramarines.

Thoughts? Ideas? Opinions?

Forces and Allies of the Imperium / Are Custodes viable now?
« on: March 29, 2017, 05:47:46 AM »
With the new release of Custodes and Sisters of Silence rules, there's a lot of new things that can be tried. Sisters of Silence, a unit that was viable but a bit lackluster due to lack of transport options, became vastly more useful with the ability to take Rhinos, and a large increase to the radius of their ability. (Being locked into a single weapon type is a disappointment, but one that I can live with, especially since the sword variety is now 1ppm cheaper.)

Custodes, though... They got better, but differently. It's the same statlines and the same gear, but they now have a built in 5++, and their Deep Strike is far, far more reliable - Only scattering d6", and re-rolling bad results if they do still suffer a mishap. Their Land Raider is vastly better than a regular Raider as well, getting a 5++, BS5, and freakin' Venerable to all-but guarantee it won't explode and help considerably with being glanced to death, for a mere 25 point increase.

The question is... Are they worth it yet? They're definitely going to put most Terminators out of business, but the niche that they fill  (extremely durable melee units with mid-strength AP2 at volume) just doesn't seem like a particularly valuable one. They can shake down just about anyone for their lunch money except the toughest invuln-based Deathstars, but those invuln-based Deathstars were just about the only viable close combat units to begin with, and at 50ppm with a mandatory 10pt captain upgrade (plus the cost of any Storm Shields or whatever else you take) these guys are going to be taking up a huge chunk of your army.

So what are your thoughts? Are they worth the cost?

Online Roleplaying / Dark Heresy Roleplay Thread
« on: March 20, 2017, 07:41:06 PM »
The ragtag band of escapees panted for a moment, catching their breath after the furious melee. Both prison guards who hadn't fled were dead and broken on the ground, but it was not a sign that they were safe - Only that more guards would be there soon. The little break room only showed further evidence of the melee - Dents in the wall where cheap dryrock had been crushed, spent shotgun shells on the floor, broken door behind them where they'd fled from the massacre downstairs.

Time was running short. Our intrepid heroes didn't know how long they had, but they knew that they would have to move quickly or find themselves thrown back in the cells they'd only just escaped from.

Foosteps came from behind and they all turned to watch, cautious for any further attackers. Instead of any enemy, however, they saw a humanoid form - But one concealed by robes and twisted by metal machinations. Only Tarkus recognized Scythia Harlocke, who had been held up finishing her character sheet and only then was able to join the other acolytes.

Online Roleplaying / Dark Heresy OOC/Discussion Thread
« on: March 20, 2017, 07:32:40 PM »
This group is currently FULL. Actually, it was always full - Some local roleplaying friends of mine are migrating to a forum since our schedules are getting hard to sync up, and we needed a good forum, and I like this one. If a slot opens up I'll let you know.

I'll fill in more details here in a moment. For now, character names! (I'll add wounds and other details later!)

Arlo Amos - Cade
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Lazarus Wolfe - Morgan
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Scythia Harlocke - Alex
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Salk Icharus - Jake
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Tarkus Stone - Austin
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Wilhelm "Dakka Bones" - Connor
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Once you guys have an account, post in this thread so I know who you are.

Forces and Allies of the Imperium / New Cadian Relics
« on: January 21, 2017, 11:16:32 AM »
Well, if nobody else is going to revive this forum, I guess it'll have to be me.

So... Discussion!

What do you guys think of the new Cadian relics? Any ideas on how to exploit them? The fact that they can be given to any army makes it pretty interesting, especially since it can lead to some armies that otherwise lack certain 'types' of relics or wargear having those options now available.

A few thoughts right off the bat? Well, Inquisitors now have a way to get an invuln, and a good one at that - Lacking any kind of invuln outside of Terminator armor kind of sucked, but now we can get a reliable 4++, that also helps block out Skyhammers or Raptor Talons.
Interestingly, if you take three Imperial Knights, then you can buy that 4++ for the Knight instead, making its Ion Shield redundant.

Access to a 3++ for units who can't take Storm Shields is also gonna be interesting. Taking a Cataphractii Captain with the '+1 Invunl' relic is going to be pretty interesting, because it leaves both of his hands open, is slightly cheaper than a Storm Shield, and is just all around a neat trick. (3++, re-rolling 1s. Nice.) Or, you can get a Canonness with a 3++, or a Priest, both of which are criminal wastes of a good relic and perfectly useful points that could have been spent somewhere else. Of course, it has one weakness compared to a Storm Shield - No using Sanctuary to buff it to a 2++.
(This can also be given to a Knight, giving him a 6++ bubble and a 3++ Ion Shield, which could be neat, if probably not quite as good as the 4++ on all facings.)

The various cheap weapons are all good, but none of them really 'Pop'. The no-saves-allowed Bolt Pistol isn't bad, but it's still only S4. The poisoned large blast grenade is funny and worth the points, but you need a spare HQ to bring it on.

The relic that grants Skyfire, Monster Hunter, or Tank Hunter to a squad could be potentially abuseable if attached to a Centstar, but so can a lot of things. Still, a Centstar with skyfire is scary. (You could already do this with Command Tanks, but those are hard to buy (Both in an army and IRL) and cost 400 points.)

The Autopurger is hilariously good at clearing hordes, especially if you take it on an Inquisitor with Rad Grenades - Bye bye, T2 Guardsmen.

Lastly, Eternal Warrior on anyone who can take Relics, for only 35pts! I can bring an EW Thunder Wolf Lord again! (And, coincidence: It costs exactly the same as Saga of the Bear used to! Neato!)

Hi there!
I recently came into a big lot of Warhammer stuff, and it was simply too good a deal for me to pass up. Since I can’t justify keeping all of it when my ‘Painting projects’ shelf is getting overcrowded already, though, I decided I would try and resell some of it to help recoup a bit of the cost.

I’m posting this on DakkaDakka too, and it’s first-come-first-serve. Pictures available on request for now, I haven’t gotten around to documenting all of them yet but will eventually try and get them all uploaded.

Here’s what’s available. I’m willing to negotiate on price, and I’ll go for the cheapest shipping I can find unless you want it rushed. (I’m located in KCMO, so if you are close and want to just meet up, that’s an option.) I’d also be very willing to trade for certain items, though I’m mostly for Forge World stuff, super-heavies, and older, metal models. (I play Orks, Sisters, and various Marine chapters, so if you want to trade lemme know.)

(If the numbering is weird, it’s because I took an inventory and have it all listed on a spreadsheet I printed out, but some of the items were already swapped with friends or I just decided to keep them.)
(Also, some of these are partly based or have some paint on them. If they’re completely unpainted I specify, if I say they’re ‘Painted’ I mean that they’re well painted with good detail.)

Imperial Guard:
1. Hellhound (Fully magnetized, unpainted) - 30$
2. Hellhound (Fully magnetized, unpainted) - 30$
3. Hellhound (Fully magnetized, unpainted) - 30$
5. Leman Russ (Chassis assembled, remainder on sprue, unpainted) - 30$ SOLD
6. Leman Russ (Chassis assembled, remainder on sprue, unpainted) - 30$ SOLD
7. Leman Russ (Chassis assembled, remainder on sprue, unpainted) - 30$ SOLD

Space Marine:
11. Drop Pod (Fully assembled, no sticky doors, no chairs) - 30$
25. Vindicator (Fully assembled, siege shield detached) - 30$
26. Vindicator (Fully assembled, siege shield detached) - 30$
31. Furiosa Dreadnought (Assembled, painted, claws) - 24$ SOLD
32. Furiosa Dreadnought (Assembled, painted, claws) - 24$
33. Furiosa Librarian Dreadnought (Assembled, painted, force weapon) - 24$ SOLD
34. Furiosa Librarian Dreadnought (Assembled, painted, force weapon) - 24$
41. Sanguinary Guard (Partly assembled) - 18$
42. Sanguinary Guard (Partly assembled) - 18$
47. The Sanguinor (Painted) - 15$ SOLD
49. Lemartes (Painted) - 15$ SOLD
50. Coteaz (Painted) - 15$
52. Mephiston (Painted) -15$ SOLD
53. Corbulo - 12$
57. Dante - (Painted) - 15$
58. Terminator Chaplain (Painted) - 15$
66. Death Company (5x, Jump packs, painted, one Inferno Pistol) - 20$
69. Scouts (5x, Pistol/CCW) - 15$
70. Scouts (5x, Pistol/CCW) - 15$
71. Scouts (5x, Pistol/CCW) - 15$
73. Death Company (Painted) - 20$
75. Stormraven (Fully assembled, no hurricane bolter, all other options included) - 55$ SOLD
76. Stormraven (Fully assembled, no hurricane bolter, all other options included) - 55$ SOLD
77. Stormraven (Fully assembled, no hurricane bolter or Plasma Cannon, all other options included) - 55$ SOLD
78. Stormraven (Fully assembled, no hurricane bolter or Heavy Bolter, all other options included)
81. Rhino - 15$ SOLD
82. Rhino - 15$
89. Land Raider Crusader (Fully assembled, doors stuck) SOLD
90. Land Raider Crusader (Fully assembled, doors stuck) SOLD
92. Assault Marines (5x, Jump Packs, Inferno Pistol, Power Fist) - 15$
93. Assault Marines (5x, Jump Packs, Inferno Pistol, Power Fist) - 15$
94. Assault Marines (5x, Jump Packs, Inferno Pistol, Power Sword) - 15$
95. Assault Marines (5x, Jump Packs, Inferno Pistol, Power Sword) - 15$
99. Assault Marines (5x, Jump Packs, Inferno Pistol, Power Fist) - 15$
105. Terminators (5x, TH/SS) - 25$
106. Terminators (5x, TH/SS) - 25$
107. Terminators (5x, TH/SS) - 25$
108. Terminators (5x, TH/SS) - 25$
109. Terminators (5x, Captain, Chainfist) - 25$
110. Terminators (5x, Captain, Chainfist) - 25$
111. Terminators (5x, Captain, Chainfist) - 25$
112. Terminators (5x, Captain, Chainfist) - 25$
113. Terminators (5x, Captain, Chainfist) - 25$
114. Terminators (5x, Lightning Claws) - 25$
115. Terminators (5x, Lightning Claws) - 25$
116. Terminators (5x, Lightning Claws) - 25$

(Apoligies in advance for spelling butchery.)
I'm trying to figure out the best way to use Cataphracti Terminators.
There's a few ideas that have come to mind. LC Termies have historically been outshone by TH/SS when in an Assault Terminator squad, but with a 4+ Invuln for the same cost as regular LC Termies and Assault Grenades for 10 points, they could find themselves functioning as a more viable alternative.
Similarly, while lacking Concussive, regular Cataphracti Termies also have greater durability than regular Termies, and at 35ppm could function as a totally viable alternative for Melee.

S&P means no overwatch, which is unfortunate, but manageable.

As for a Terminator Captain, there's great news and bad news.
For some inexplicable reason, he can't be made into a Chapter Master, which sucks. I'd love to use him as a real Beatstick, but his options make him into a mid-level fighter at best.

On the other hand, S&P affects his entire unit. While this has potential downsides, it can also be used to grant Relentless to heavy weapons. Want to put Grav or Melta Devestators in a Drop Pod? Go right ahead! They can deliver their payload up close and personal.
Plus, he rerolls invulns of 1, which is *Awesome*. Throw a Storm Shield on him, you've got an intensely durable character for around 100 points.

Fluff and Stories / Two Titanically Short Stories
« on: March 04, 2016, 11:31:46 PM »
So, for reasons, which you might know about, (If you're curious, check out the Forge World website,) I wrote a couple of short stories related to Titans. Very short stories. Well, a very short story and a poem.


The Errant's Bane
My brothers, sit, and gather round,
I tell a story of great fame,
A tale old and true, profound,
The legend of the Errant's  Bane.

'Twas dark, the dreary  moonlit night,
Whence the foul daemons came,
The devestation of land and light,
'Till came the mighty Errant's Bane

They came with all their foul strength,
Clutching, grabbing victory's name,
Crushing kingdom's  breadth and length,
'Till came the furious Errant's Bane

The Astra Militarum fought,
Their will breaking despite their strain,
Their struggles seemed to be for naught,
'Till came the  righteous Errant's Bane

And when it seemed that all was lost,
Cities broke, men left in pain,
The bloody tithe to great a cost,
Then came our savior, Errant's Bane

IT came with endless rage and ire,
Killing, breaking, raising cain,
Cannons roared with mur'drous fire,
That walking fortress, Errant's Bane

And as IT fought, a holy glow,
Did fill the night, the titan's mane,
IT banished demons to and fro,
Majestic fury, Errant's Bane,

And so, my sons, the fight was won,
Forever may the Emperor reign,
And so we live, our duties done,
Saved by our blessed Errant's Bane

Virtue's Contempt
"Sir, the traitors approach," a scout commander said, his light armor almost totally silent, contrasting with the whirring suits of power armor all around them.

Lord Magos Magnarof turned his head barely to the scout and gave the tiniest nod of his head, though his eyes never left the hangar in front of them. The 'Sir' was an honorific, the scout - As a  proud member of the Space Marines - was unbeholden to any Mechanicus influence, but Magnarof still appreciated the sign of respect.

"This is fine," Magnarof replied, his tinny voice betraying no emotion, for he had felt no emotion in many centuries. "The doors are almost opened."

It had been a vicious campaign to this recovery, but one of pride and honor for the Imperium - or so Magnarof was told. He had experienced no such emotions, as he hadn't not for the many lifetimes since he joined the Adeptus Mechanicus, only a cold knowledge that they were mere inches away from a crushing defeat.

They had intercepted the warning nigh a year before: Abbadon's forces were mobilizing. Something ancient had been discovered, something that needed to be preserved before it could be stolen by traitors and corrupted.

And so, they had fought. It was a race of blood and fire and death to get to this lost planet, Y'selian, a tiny blot hidden in the depths of the galaxy. It was only by the Emperor's mercy that they had they arrived first, mere hours before the traitor forces. They needed a miracle behind those hangar doors, for they would soon be surrounded by foes who would show no mercy.

Another marine ran up, his heavy armor leaving deep footprints in the dirt. "We've broken the locks," he said. "Waiting to open the hangar on your signal."

Magnarof looked up at the massive hangar doors, paused, and nodded. "Open them," he said. "Let us witness what will be our salvation and reward."

The space marine nodded, speaking into his vox caster. On cue, the hangar doors began to open, creaking slightly as the rusty cogs began to pull the heavy doors apart.

Wind blew into the hangar for the first time in millenia, rustling a banner hanging from old rafters, declaring a name proudly: Virtue's Contempt.

Magnarof looked beneath the banner to see what they had come for, and upon laying eyes on the titan, for the first time in his perfect memory, he felt awe.

General 40k and Expansions / Formation Rules VS Mission Rules?
« on: February 29, 2016, 10:48:32 PM »
I'm going to try out the Wulfen campaign with a friend of mine!
But, there's a slight problem. Namely, some of the mission rules conflict with certain mandatory formation rules that I might want to take.

To be more specific:
In the mission, "As Above, So Below," the game is played on two separate boards, each a 24x72" segment. (The turns are played simultaneously.) The Space Wolf player is required to deploy all of his vehicles on one board, and all of his infantry on the other board. (The fluff explanation being that the one board is above ground, where the atmosphere is toxic, and the other board is below ground, where most Marine vehicles wouldn't fit.)

The only list requirements are that the Space Wolf player ONLY bring models with the Space Wolf faction.

However, this creates a problem: Several formations found within the supplement book, Champions of Fenris, require certain models to begin the game deployed inside vehicles. (Namely, a couple Terminator formations.) There are three possible interpretations I see:

One, Mission trumps Formation, the models have to be deployed outside of their transport.
Two, Formation trumps Mission, the models have to be deployed inside of their transport.
Three, a Paradox is formed, the formations simply can't be taken.


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