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Help against Nids? (As Orks.)

Started by Waaaghpower, March 12, 2013, 09:11:34 PM

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Waaaghpower

So, I've been having trouble against a particularly good Tyranid player as of late, and wanted some advice on taking him out.
First question: How the heck do you consistently kill a Hive Tyrant? He usually takes one with wings or an armored carapace, but either way I've found it nearly impossible to kill it. He always takes Biomancy for psychic powers, and depending on what he gets will usually either be weakening my nearby units, Iron Arming himself, or just shooting me to bits at close range. Regardless of Psychic powers, though, I can't seem to hurt him easily. If he takes Wings, then my good shooting units can't ever seem to land a hit because of the BS1. Even then, most guns wound on 5s and 6s and even my Lootas only wound on 3s. If he takes Armored Carapace, then shooting STILL doesn't work because I don't have anything that can penetrate his armor and massed fire doesn't work because (Once again) his high toughness making most fire almost worthless.
So, just assault him, right?... Not so much. I can't get boy hordes to do much against him because of, once again, high toughness and good armor. (That is, assuming he isn't swooping and I can even charge him.) Nobz and Biker Nobz are too expensive to charge with, especially since he can use Smash and cause instant death... And I strike at initiative one because of Lash Whips. So use a Biker Warboss, right? Except his Bonesaber causes instant death too frequently and I still don't have a guaranteed kill. The only thing I've thought of is to use Ghazkull Thraka, because he can survive anything for a couple turns and is immune to instant death, but I don't like having to take the same unique character every single game against him just to stand a chance. Help?

The next question is how to deal with Tervigons. Once again, he always tries to get Enfeeble or Iron Arm as psychic powers, which makes them much harder targets. Even without that, I can hardly get into base to base with him after turn one to assault because he always ends up spawning too many gaunts to get close. I've managed to kill him occasionally by putting a Warboss in with a unit of Burna Boys and then toasting the gaunts in between me and the Tervigon, then charging the Tervigon. Once again, though, this is unreliable and can't be used consistently. (And if he uses Smash my Warboss still suffers instant death.)

Help?
Super Mario 3D World is The. Best. Thing.

Naser Al-Istikhara Cyrus

You could start by taking a warphead to try and counter/negate some of his psychic tests more effectively than an army without a psyker could. Warpheads also have access to high AP attacks, the occasional zzap could prove handy.

What points is this? Because at the lower points, Hive Tyrants with wings or armour take up an awful lot of an army with regards to points. If there isnt much else you could kill everything else he has - focussing on the troops.

What I think is happening is that he takes an army that gives you the impression that assault-heavy ork tactics are required for victory. To be honest, I'd take a shooty-heavy army and pour shots at him. Taking 4+ troop choices is not difficult with orks, and if you spread them out accross the map his hive tyrant wont be able to eat all of them. I also find shoota boys quite effective against the weaker tyranids too (dont forget those 5 point upgrades to big shootas either!). If it's a higher points game, get 5 troops and just make sure they aren't bunched up so the tyrant doesn't have the turns to charge into all of them.

Tankbustas aren't bad against nids because there are no vehicles to distract them - they can always shoot at what you want. If they are in a protective wagon, they can keep a relatively safe distance. I'd consider a similar thing with lootas - perhaps even in a battlewagon if the points are high enough. Tyranids really struggle to penetrate heavy armour at ranged without a certain few units in the army - but I also find that armies that have a Tervigon and a tooled Hive Tyrant do not have the spare points to get said units without really lacking in other troop areas.

If you really want to focus fire down a Hive Tyrant, i'd consider rokkit buggies or rokkit koptas (rerolling to hit makes them better vs the flyers) or some zzap gun heavy weapon teams. It's fairly cheap to invest in these points wise (especially the zzaps) and for under 200 points you can have a considerable amount of anti-tyrantness. Personally I'd go with the koptas and buggies, target the tervigon and the rest of his troops, and then know i wont lose an objective's based game. (If it's a special mission where fast attack units can claim, focus on whatever flimsy fast attack he brought to. Knowing he has a Tyrant and a Tervigon, I'd guess he might have a unit of gargoyles at best.)

And most importantly, I'd build up a large horde of shoota boys. I find in this edition shootas are far more effective than sluggas against a larger amount of opposition types. Assaulting is extra dangerous these days and sometimes being able to sit back without getting hurt is extremely useful.

Hope this is helpful :)

Cyrus
Quote from: Narric on August 15, 2011, 12:09:07 AM
You make it sound like it could be wearing a top-hat and monocle, but for the sole reason it'd have been painted by Gareth that it would still look terrifying........I have to say I agree. XD
Quote from: Greg Mun

Waaaghpower

That helps a lot, actually. I didn't realize this until just a moment ago when I was reading the rulebook, but you don't actually have to cause grounding. So I could potentially just fure four or five units of shootas to ground his tyrant, then fire my stronger stuff.

It's so far been relatively small games, but we are in an escalation league so we are both going to have more points every time.
Super Mario 3D World is The. Best. Thing.

Chicop76

Quote from: Waaaghpower on March 12, 2013, 11:37:49 PM
That helps a lot, actually. I didn't realize this until just a moment ago when I was reading the rulebook, but you don't actually have to cause grounding. So I could potentially just fure four or five units of shootas to ground his tyrant, then fire my stronger stuff.

It's so far been relatively small games, but we are in an escalation league so we are both going to have more points every time.

I agree with Cyrus. For some reason my first post didn't post. Anyway I would go for the Tervigons and gaunts. The Trygon isn't really a combat monster. Biomancy on the Tervigons is rather ncie.


Arguleon-veq

Id still fancy Nob Bikers to do the job. They shoot him out of the sky and if hes smashing you he isnt getting many attacks, it should only kill 1 Nob Biker and then you rip him to shreds with powerfists. As your Nob Bikes are no longer characters [decline with the painboy/warboss] you can get all your attacks on him. If the bikes dont ground him with their shooting still make sure they are in a position to charge and just put some rubbish fire into him, dont waste good stuff like lootas, put the odd big shoota or some shoota boys at him, your going to get 6's and he will roll a 1 or 2 eventually.

For Orks though I really like Grots on a Quadgun. They can strip a few wounds off him anyway even if he doesnt get grounded.
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Chicop76

Quote from: Arguleon-veq on March 16, 2013, 01:47:20 AM
Id still fancy Nob Bikers to do the job. They shoot him out of the sky and if hes smashing you he isnt getting many attacks, it should only kill 1 Nob Biker and then you rip him to shreds with powerfists. As your Nob Bikes are no longer characters [decline with the painboy/warboss] you can get all your attacks on him. If the bikes dont ground him with their shooting still make sure they are in a position to charge and just put some rubbish fire into him, dont waste good stuff like lootas, put the odd big shoota or some shoota boys at him, your going to get 6's and he will roll a 1 or 2 eventually.

For Orks though I really like Grots on a Quadgun. They can strip a few wounds off him anyway even if he doesnt get grounded.

The problem is that you havs to get through a ton of gaunts to get to the tyrant. Orc Bikers aganst preferred enemy, poisoned gaunts do rather poorly. Even regular orcs can get beat up by that unit.

Flame orcs can easily cut through the gaunts allowing the bikes to charge and kill the tyrant. The problem can be is to ground the tyrant. Grounding a tyrant is easier said than done.


Arguleon-veq

There shouldnt be any gaunts around a flying Tyrant as it should be flying around vector striking. Plus its not too hard to ground it, it should take 3 units shooting at it, something orks usually have plenty of. Its tough for elite armies with only a few units but Orks with their masses of boys and shots should be able to bring it down.

X-Wing Tournaments;
1st - 38
11th - 33