How to gear out CSM troops (opinions wanted)

[Fhanados]

Hi all,

If you've seen my project log you'll know what this question is about: how to gear up my Chaos Space Marines. But these are no ordinary marines, these are my "Veterans". This unit will represent the most elite of my Power Armoured soldiers, traitors that have served the Word Bearers legion since the Heresy. So I want these guys to be special.

So far this what I have:
10x CSM, Bolter, Polt Pistol, CCW, Veterans of the Long War.

Now I want them to be separate from my standard marines, which are armed with Meltas and I don't want them to be Chosen since I already have a unit of them bedecked with plasma (Fallen Angels to go with Cypher).

I'm thinking a lightning claw for the champion. Same points as a power sword, but I get the rerolls. Not too fussed about losing an attack, since I usually flunk my wound rolls. Also thinking about giving him a gift of chaos and MAYBE a plasma pistol for extra punch at range. Expensive I know, but I want these guys to stand out.

I want an icon, since it would be thematically suitable for a Word Bearers army but after taking VotlW an icon of vengeance seems useless or wasteful, which leads us to the argument of marks (and icons associated with them).

Slaanesh - Extra I is good in assault, especially with VotLW I want to be targeting other MEQs. This means I'll be hitting first, and have the upper hand against loyalist scum. The icon of Slaanesh is arguably the best: who can argue with FnP?

Khorne - +2A on the charge is not too scabby, and would be really nice with the LC champion. The icon, not so good as Slaanesh. Extra S is not bad, and again helps with taking down MEQs, but it's only useful in CC whereas Slaanesh is useful all the time.

Nurgle - +1T is probably the best all round mark. It makes it harder for standard infantry weapons to take you down, and harder to smush in assault. It's also a bit on the pricey side, but still a good choice. The icon's not bad either; +2 to cover is nice and provides better protection than Mark of Tzeentch.

Tzeentch - What the hell is this? Why make it 6++ instead of 5++? Was it really that good before (no!). Anyway an invuln is always nice, but 6++ is pretty bad. I'd take it if it were cheaper, or if I knew I was facing a lot of low AP weapons. The icon is pretty bad too, and way overcosted.

So what do you guys think? What should I kit out my "Veterans" with for their anti-MEQ role?

[The Man They Call Jayne]

Kit wise you seem to be in the right track with a Claw and Plasma Pistol. As for the Icon, I would go with Nurgle. I used to take Tzeentch, but as you say, it has been wonderfully borked. T5 can make a big difference as you become 16% harder to wound against anything S6 or lower. At S7 it's 2s regardless.

If this is a veteran unit then the extra toughness could represent cybernetics, deamonic gifts or any other thing that would make them tougher if you don't really want them to be infected.

[Fhanados]

As an "undivided" army any marks I'd use would be "counts as" stuff. 10,000 years of exposure to the warp can change a man in subtle ways. Technically, there's no requirement to model a mark, since it could be an unseen mutation or augmentation beneath the armour so chopping and changing doesn't bother me. I'm also thinking of going with a more banner-like icon than what the kit comes with. These will be the best of the best, and I don't want them to have something stock standard.

I'm tossing up special weapons now. Plasma seems the obvious choice, but I'd still like the option to charge. Flamers are fun, but I always manage to screw up model positioning so they either die horribly before shooting, or are in a position they can't shoot at all. I've got more Meltas in my army that I really need, so that's out. I like the idea of a Heavy Bolter (thematically), but they're not very practical given the unit's role.

[The Man They Call Jayne]

To me at least, plasma covers the most bases for a weapon. It can hit light vehicles, heavy infantry, MCs, anything you need to just remove.

[Fhanados]

I think plasma might be the best bet too. I've always loved plasma weapons (thus the almost 300pt chosen unit with 5 plasma guns and a plasma pistol champ!) so I've got no problem throwing in more! The only reason I even have Melta was the abundance of mech lists in 5th.

Still not too sure about the mark/icon. It's a toss up between Nurgle and Slaanesh, with Nurgle edging out on top.

Anyway here's the unit so far:

5x Chaos Space Marines (4+Champ)

• Pistols, Boltguns, Close Combat Weapons
• +5 Chaos Space Marines
• +2 Plasma Guns
• Veterans of the Long War
• Champion: Lightning Claw, Plasma Pistol, Gift of Chaos.

[The Man They Call Jayne]

Seems like a good set up to me. You can throw out 5 plasma at 12" and you have good CC punch.

Whats gift of chaos? I think I am confusing it with gift of mutation. Havnt read my dex in a while.

[DEF Knight]

If you're going for gifts I'd be far more inclined to suggest Slaanesh over Nurgle. 1T might be 16% higher survivability, but FnP is 33% higher survivability, and works, I'd argue, more often than your +1T would, additionally that +1I is going to be very helpful anti-MEQ (if youre worried about the icons survivability you can put it on the champ so he can use Look Out Sir's to keep it safer)

[Fhanados]

Thanks for all the replies!

At the moment I'm leaning towards Slaanesh to give me the edge against MEQ in assault, and for the FnP. Hitting first will give my champ more of a chance to shred up characters in assault, and FnP is definitely a nice buff no matter how you look at it.

Also I might be getting gift of chaos/mutation mixed up. I'm going from memory and don't have my codex at work.

[DEF Knight]

sounds like a good setup to me! I don't remember the name of it off the top of my head either, but I know what you're talking about- the free roll on the chaos gifts table before the game starts.

The other nice thing about going the Slaanesh route is, I think at least, it fits a bit better with your Word Bearers theme. Each squad member is at initiative 5 because of their long millennia of fighting honing their reflexes and fighting skills, while they have FnP because their standard bearer/champ/apostle whips them into such a fervour that they can fight through even wounds grievous enough to lay low an Astartes. That way when the bearer dies losing FnP makes sense!

[Chicop76]

I say go with mark of slannesh. Simply due to 2 basic attacks with I 5. The khorne is not that good anymore since d-grenades seem to be every where, only one army out of 4 of the new books can't make a whole army have d-grenades, not to mention same army is the least played out of the 4 as well.

I say go plasma since you have a ton of melta.

[Fhanados]

I'm pretty much sold on the Slaanesh idea. It will be a while before these fellows are up and ready to go but I have a clear idea in my mind of what I want out of them. Thanks all for your input and advice!

[Chicop76]

I'm pretty much sold on the Slaanesh idea. It will be a while before these fellows are up and ready to go but I have a clear idea in my mind of what I want out of them. Thanks all for your input and advice!

I also forgot to mentopn by going Slaanesh you can get feel no pain.

[Fhanados]

The FNP banner is one of the reasons I decided on Slaanesh. Durability is something I like