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1850 You will win Tau List.

Started by Chicop76, August 27, 2013, 03:49:19 PM

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Chicop76

I think this is the list I was always meant to write. This list deals with flyers, big ugly monsters, heavy armour, swarms you name it it dies.

I may at a latter date drop my pathfinders for another bomber, or get a transport and add more troops. For now I love denying those pesy cover saves, I always hated models with +2 cover saves.

I think this list is as solid as it gets.

HQ
Ethereal
Commander: Warlord, Purtide Chip, CC node, Multi

Elites:
Riptide: Fusion, Early Warning
Riptide: Fusion, Early Warning

Troops
9 Fire Warriors
10 Fire Warriors
10 Fire Warriors
12 Sniper Kroot
12 Sniper Kroot

Fast
6 pathfinders
6 pathfinders
Sunshark

Heavy
6 sniper drones, 1 spotter
3 Broadsides, 6 missile drones: 3 x target
Hammerhead: Longshot railgun w/ submunition

After taking a break and looking at the book I figure I'll drop the skyray. Reason being the skyray didn't do what I really wanted it to do.

That being said I decided to add more range to my army. Necrons should no longer be a problem hopefully. I think this list will be able to tackle most things out there. If a wraithknight pops up it will have to deal with 42 sniper shots that's probably will be at bs 5.

I will give longshot another chance. The reason being is I still need a good ranged anti tank weapon in my army. I can get good strength 9 weapons, but they are unreliable.

I will stick with target lock rail sides since they.
1. Kill other broadsides rather easy.
2. Insantkill t4 models
3. Have a much longer range, and more helpful killing riptides.
4. With the missile drones they put out a lot of fire power and I can shoot at 4 differant targets.


knightperson

Interesting. Our tastes are almost completely opposite! OK HQ's are similar, as that's good solid gear on the commander, and the ethereal is very useful if you have lots of pulse fire (which you do). But beyond that, I just don't like your choices. I don't mean that as a criticism, necessarily, just that it's not the stuff I like.

The riptides are very effective, and I admit I'm only avoiding them as a matter of principle: I don't like flavour of the month.

I tried the sniper kroot once or twice and they didn't work well for me at all. The range is too short for a heavy weapon, and the battle lines move too fast.

I don't like pathfinders any more. Not when for a similar cost you can have a squad of marker drones escorted by a commander with drone controller.

Next, I was going to say how much better the bomber is than that stupid fighter you chose, then I realized you are running the bomber. I approve of this! By itself the bomber is mediocre, but those drones with up to 4 twin-linked, S7, intercepting, skyfiring shots are almost worth the bomber's cost by themselves!

The heavies are where we differ the most I think. I have run the sniper drones a couple of times, and they're pretty nice. The problem I always ran into is that the drones are so much more mobile than the spotter, and he ends up holding them back.

I prefer putting Longstrike in the ionhead because 3 markerlights gives him -6 on the scatter, ignores cover, and a reroll on the Gets Hot. I tried railgun once or twice, and while it's one of our better choices for heavy vehicles, that overcharged blast from the ion cannon is just too nice!

I just don't dig the broadsides any more. They were my tank killers, and now they don't do that very well. They are a good source of heavy infantry / light vehicle fire, but I miss Slow and Purposeful.

And I still kinda like the skyray. Seeker missiles are nice to have around, it's a good source of Skyfire, and with the right wargear it can fire markerlights in overwatch, although I admit that interpretation is mathematically ambiguous.
Cured of what I'm suffering from, but suffering from the cure.

Chicop76

Quote from: knightperson on August 27, 2013, 06:42:52 PM
Interesting. Our tastes are almost completely opposite! OK HQ's are similar, as that's good solid gear on the commander, and the ethereal is very useful if you have lots of pulse fire (which you do). But beyond that, I just don't like your choices. I don't mean that as a criticism, necessarily, just that it's not the stuff I like.

The riptides are very effective, and I admit I'm only avoiding them as a matter of principle: I don't like flavour of the month.

I tried the sniper kroot once or twice and they didn't work well for me at all. The range is too short for a heavy weapon, and the battle lines move too fast.

I don't like pathfinders any more. Not when for a similar cost you can have a squad of marker drones escorted by a commander with drone controller.

Next, I was going to say how much better the bomber is than that stupid fighter you chose, then I realized you are running the bomber. I approve of this! By itself the bomber is mediocre, but those drones with up to 4 twin-linked, S7, intercepting, skyfiring shots are almost worth the bomber's cost by themselves!

The heavies are where we differ the most I think. I have run the sniper drones a couple of times, and they're pretty nice. The problem I always ran into is that the drones are so much more mobile than the spotter, and he ends up holding them back.

I prefer putting Longstrike in the ionhead because 3 markerlights gives him -6 on the scatter, ignores cover, and a reroll on the Gets Hot. I tried railgun once or twice, and while it's one of our better choices for heavy vehicles, that overcharged blast from the ion cannon is just too nice!

I just don't dig the broadsides any more. They were my tank killers, and now they don't do that very well. They are a good source of heavy infantry / light vehicle fire, but I miss Slow and Purposeful.

And I still kinda like the skyray. Seeker missiles are nice to have around, it's a good source of Skyfire, and with the right wargear it can fire markerlights in overwatch, although I admit that interpretation is mathematically ambiguous.

Oh My Gosh(omg)! Feedback. Look I'm dancing. Anyway this list is what through many playtesting is what I am looking at so far.

Let's go down and hit all the issues one by one.

1. Sniper Kroot: honestly the kroot has worked well, but I can see me saving 30 points here which the sniper rounds simply havn't been used as much as I would had like them to be used. If you are within rapid fire or triple fire range it is almost always better to use the standard shots. Also I learned vs t3 armies the standard shot is better, so why do I still use them.

Than you have games where you face nidzilla, wraithpocalipse, Daemonzilla. Than on those days I see the sniper rounds shine. Even vs tau with a riptide on the board I found myself not using the sniper rounds.

Otherwards the sniper rounds are for the off chance I have to deal with T10 models, etc. Which means 1 out of 10 games I would probably use them. Believe me I wanted to drop them, but I still see the need to use them.

Also the fact they can infiltrate typically cures the range issue.

2. Riptides: all I got to say is this unit is the bane of heavy armour 13 and higher armires. It's funny that they can drop a strength 9 template that hits side armor and can roll two dice and you pick the highest, oh and the range is anywhere on the board. Have a unit hiding behind a building this guy can eraze them and they get no cover save.

I did go with skyfire on this unit, but it deals with tanks, terminators, blobs, etc. Soooo well I never bother shooting at flyers with them. They are Tau's most versitile unit. Heck they can deep strike and melta tanks as well, the look on the other players face was awesome.

I can go on and on. Fusion Smash destroys any tank that gets close. It's great ranged and close support.

They give Tau the ability to push in the enemies lanes which Tau lacks. They are better than any crisis suit team and in ways better than broadsides.

Another point is they are a great target which takes enemy's shooting away from your other units. I have learned though stay away from melta bomb heavy units.

3. I see the marker drone squad in action and not really impressed. The commander is hitching a ride with the unit. I use mine with my sides. I have to say the commander with my sides have done great work and it's very noticable.

My issue with marker/ commander drones is they can only fire at one target for starters. Another issues is the drones cost 3 points more than a pathfinder whic is why you take the 2 drones with the commander to reduce the cost. The unit with commander hits around 200 points, sometimes a lot more, way more than my 12 pathfinders which are divided into two squads. If the squad had split fire than it would be much better. The issue is and the reason I reduced my pathfinders is that you can really over marker light a squad. All you really need is 3 or 4 marker lights on a squad. Which is why I am running 2 squads of 6 which will provide lights for 2 differant units and on average 3 lights on both squads.

Remember I am using my commander with my sides which I found do not need marker support due to twin linked, and it ignores cover. Now the missiles do benefit from marker support since re rolling on 5s is still rather bad.

Doing the math a commander with 5 drones which are bs 5 and that's it is going to hit you for 218 points, which in turn is 3 squads of 6 pathfnders with one left over. Which means I get 5 lights on one target compared to 3 lights on 3 differant targets.

You can argue that I am also taking a commander and should compare drone to pathfinder only, but keep in mind my commander is negating the need for marker lights on my broadsides anyway and that one unit can engage 4 differant units. So if I was to add in my commander I have to figure out the points that I don't need since the unit is twin linked and negates cover which are his up grades with the extra boost of tank and monster hunter.

To even use marker drones in this list I would have to drop the etheral, which I see that as crazy due to 3 fire warrior squads and a sniper squad.

In the end of the day I would probably drop the snipers with the lost of the etheral. By the end of the day my army isn't really more accurate since I am pouring a good chunk of my points into making the unit more accurate.

I have thought about using other models besides a commander, but the issue is the commander is the only IC with a drone controller worth taking. Bs 3 drones are not really much better.

Yes the drones are mobile and I agree you have options. However facing it a few times with my other Tau list I find it a liability. In fact I wiped out his list leaving them for last since they really wasn't worth killing, too annoying to deal with actually.

The differance is my sides become a huge target with my commander attach to them, boy do those guys get shot at. At the same time it's durable enough to take the hits and dish out some pain.

The great part about the pathfinder with the broadsides is I only need the extra bs at tmes rather than the denial of cover.

3. I havn't ran the bomber yet, but it's to replace the dropped skyray. I think the inclusion of anti_flyer, anti- light tank, and anti-infantry is not a bad ideal. It will add 4 large templates to my army and add more interceptor fire power to my army.

I had a thought of taking 2 drones on my Ethereal and than attaching these two drones to the unit. In the end I though it was a bad ideal, but I think detaching them as soon as the bomber comes on th field is a great ideal. I will test out the bomber a few times and see if it is worth while. It does replace my skyray a bit and adds more to my army than take away from it.

4. Skyray: I liked the skyray, but I wanted more anti armour 13, I hate crons. To deal with the armour 13 I would have to drop something. I want to keep the sniper drones since more sniper shots are not a bd ideal. Also the sniper drones have good range which my army was lacking. The decision to drop the ray and add the head was a hard one.

The main reason I did so was because of this reason. Only the Skyray can fire it's seeker missles. If anyone can fire the missiles it would still be in my army. The problem with this is if I say use my marker lights to shoot at a flyer and use my pathfinders to further paint a flyer I wouldn't b bale to use my missles. What also became an issue was tanks can no longer split fire.

After awhile the skyray was becoming rather annoying to use. The problem now was I had to use my marker lights to fire my missiles at a flying target, if used with the bomber it might be more effective. I think the issue I have with it was I thought my pathfinders can use the seeker missiles or anyone that wanted to use a token to fire missiles, since this isn't the case it pretty much killed me taking it any longer.

5. Hammerhead: well th reason I taking this is to add more long range firing and to deal with 13 armour spam. I used a regular tank and it wasn't good enough. With re rolling I should have a better chance of getting a pen than before sine I only have one shot. The problem I was having was my opponets started to stay out of the 36" range Tau death zone. This way a good portion of my army can hit you 72" away. For example Eldar have issues since they can't sit back and shoot pass 36" away. Also throw in all the sniper glancing shots I can glance death their vehicles as well. It forces the Eldar to play more aggressive rather than sitting back and shooting, an eldar player learned not to do that with a similar Tau list.

I really don't like taking this unit to be honest. I just see it as an evil which I have to put up with. I have thought about the ion gun which would be awesome, but I have two riptides which pretty much does what the ion gun goes.

The railgun gives me options vs armour 13-14. It allows me to possibly take out a landraider without puting my riptides in danger. Riptide smashing a radier and a bunch of thunderhammer terminators pop out.


The Man They Call Jayne

"It's funny that they can drop a strength 9 template that hits side armor and can roll two dice and you pick the highest, oh and the range is anywhere on the board."

Why does it hit side armour? It is Ordnance, but it isn't Barrage. Only Barrage gets the "hits side armour" bonus.
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Arguleon-veq

Yeah its not a barrage weapon. Riptides are still great though, still the hardest MC to kill in the game with decent damage output.

On the whole drones vs pathfinders issue, I think pathfinders are way better. The cost of the commander makes the drones so expensive and all they do is markerlight. At least with pathfinders you actually have the option to put some damage out with them and they score in the scouring.
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Chicop76

Quote from: The Man They Call Jayne on August 27, 2013, 10:51:06 PM
"It's funny that they can drop a strength 9 template that hits side armor and can roll two dice and you pick the highest, oh and the range is anywhere on the board."

Why does it hit side armour? It is Ordnance, but it isn't Barrage. Only Barrage gets the "hits side armour" bonus.

My bad. I thought it was barage too. I just reread and saw that it wasn't. Still strength 9 rolling two dice is pretty good.

@ Arguleon: I have outflank and won games by doing so. I don't field them in scouring since they can be easy points. I have outflanked with them 3 times and forced a unit off an objective while they took it.

That in mind I have debated on using railguns on an outflanking pathfinder unit. I still thinking of running a huge outflanking army with devilfish as drop offs.

I did noticed a piece of gear that allows for outfanking from any edge which means you have to be 6" away from it. Which means you can outflank from the enemies rear.