1750 Point Tau List – Need Assistance

[Carrelio]

Hello everyone,

Since the release of the new Tau codex I have been working hard to find a list that I will be as comfortable playing as I was with my 4th codex edition list.  I've tried out all the units, in all sorts of different combinations (often letting my opponent throw together a list for me), I've watched tons of games, and read all there is to read, and I've played against a range of different opponents.  Despite all this effort, the flow of my army still isn't the same level it was using the 4th edition codex, and so I will keep working.  The current 'list' I will be presenting here is my latest work in progress.  It is a primarily Take All Comers slow moving mechanized army, supported by minimal high survivability, high accuracy markerlights.  I have no doubt that there are still bugs that need to be smoothed out (a process which will happen with more playing, but can be sped up by your comments), and some gaps that need filling (I just don't know what to take with those last few points).

Below I will post my list accompanied by comments on a unit per unit basis, as well as a tactical and overview summary at the end.  To everyone who will be helping, I thank you in advance for any questions, comments, concerns, pointers, hints, tips, etc. I also must clarify that if I seem abrasive or resistant to a suggested change, it is entirely not my intention to do so, I take all suggestions very seriously and factor them in to my decision making process in writing an army list, I do however want the best list I can possibly build, and will thus always endeavour to get more than a one line answer (I don't just want to take advice because someone tells me it works, I want to know for a fact, through well presented argument, that the opinion presented to me will be the right choice for me.).

HQ:
Shas'O – 177 points
-   2 missile pods
-   Target lock
-   Drone controller
-   Iridium armour
-   2 marker drones

Notes:  The commander has evolved out of my issue with survivable markerlights.  He will pair up with the fast attack markerdrone squad to provide them with BS5, while also using his iridium to tank hits for the team.  I had initially run him without the iridium but found the likelihood of having him taken out by marine embedded special weapons with double his toughness was a real problem, even with a 2+ LOS.

Elites:
Riptide – 225 points
-   Ion accelerator
-   Twin-linked fusion blaster
-   Stimulant injector
-   Early warning override
-   
Riptide – 225 points
-   Ion accelerator
-   Twin-linked fusion blaster
-   Stimulant injector
-   Early warning override

Notes: The riptides provide two important battlefield roles; drawing fire away from the rest of the battleline, and laying down anti-meq/teq firepower. While initially I only ran one Riptide, of all the new units the riptide has arguably performed the best (the ion cannon hammerhead has put out more damage, but the riptide has taken a way bigger punishment to take pressure off my other units).

Troops:
10 Fire warriors – 114 points
-   Pulse rifles
-   2 gun drones
Devilfish – 95 points
-   Disruption pod

10 Fire warriors – 114 points
-   Pulse rifles
-   2 gun drones
Devilfish – 95 points
-   Disruption pod

Notes: My fire warriors in the devilfish provide me with my primary scoring units.  Their primary goal is to live; after that everything else is secondary.  The devilfish moves flat out as necessary and provide mobile cover when the fire warriors eventually disembark to claim the objective at the end of the game.

10 kroot – 125 points
-   10 sniper ammunition
-   1 kroot hound
-   2 krootox riders

Notes: The kroot provide a harassment unit with the secondary purpose of scoring on objectives.  They have a range of deployment options making them a very flexible choice that allows me to take control of the deployment and movement phase a little more thoroughly than fire warriors alone could.  This team synthesizes very well with the sniper drones, benefiting from their markerlights and sharing similar target priorities. The hound provides the unit with I4, and acute sense, while the krootox give the unit some high strength shots to assist in taking down light tanks or instant-killing T3 swarms.

Fast attack:
4 Marker drones – 56 points
Notes: Coupled with the commander the 6 drones form the bulk of my army's markerlight support.  I originally ran a full team of drones along with the commander's 2, but found that due to the much better survivability thanks to jump-shoot-jump and the increased BS from the shas'O that I was actually scoring too many hits on a single unit given the number of models in actual need of the lights.  Trimming it down, I've been finding 6 to be about the right balance between number of hits, number of lights needed, and survivability of the squad.

Heavy Support:
Hammerhead – 145 points
-   Railgun
-   Submunition rounds
-   Smart missiles
-   Disruption pods
-   Blacksun filter

Hammerhead – 146 points
-   Railgun
-   Submunition rounds
-   Smart missiles
-   Disruption pods
-   Blacksun filter

Notes: The hammerheads provide what is essentially my only ranged AV13-14 offensive capability.  I have tested all the hammerhead variants (skyray included), and actually found the ion cannon to be the best all around... which is why it pains me to be taking the two railguns instead, but when push comes to shove, the riptides fit the same role as the ion cannon hammerhead, while nothing else in the army does what the railgun turret can do; long ranged S10 shots.  I've kept them cheap, and will rely on markerlights to boost them where necessary.

Sniper Drone Team – 84 points
-   3 firesight marksmen
-   3 sniper drones
Notes: While 10 BS5 markerlights all in a single basket was way too much, a single markerlight source with only 6 lights just isn't enough.  Given my issues with pathfinder teams never living to see turn 2, and lone markerdrone team's shooting reminding me more of savage orks than refined tau, I went with an option that appeased all my demands, sniper drones.  The firesight marksmen provide 3 BS5 markerlight shots and have stealth, as well as ablative wounds in the form of the (none too shabby) drones.  While the Shas'O team lights up the primary threat, the SDT lights can be used to get some support to the units working over the secondary threats.  Given how well the drones perform in their own role as snipers, I am considering a large team of them with the points I have left over.

Total: 1602 points
Notes: My main concern for a Tau army in 6th edition is the lack of anti AV13-14 immediately present in our codex, and it is a concern in this list as well (enough of one for me to drop the ionhead in exchange for another railhead).  As it stands, against heavy vehicles I've got the 2 hammerheads, and the riptides (meltas and smash attacks).  That's about half the amount my 4th edition codex list brought.

Reflecting further on the list, I worry that my riptides will be too great a linchpin for the army, at nearly a third of the points, they are my main source of... well anti-everything.  The blast takes on anything on foot, the regular shots take on tanks, and its giant feet take on heavy vehicles... what happens if it goes down?

Obviously this leaves me with a considerable gap to fill before I reach 1750 points (148 points)  which of course leads me to ask, where should I be putting these remaining points?  I have models coming out of my ears, so nothing is off the table, I just don't know where these points could be put to the best use.  If left to my own devices, I think increasing the size of the sniper drone team may be worthwhile, since they make quite a formidable unit.  Increasing the squad to 9 drones and 3 spotters puts me at 58 points remaining, room enough for a piranha (room for a piranha with melta if I leave a sniper drone at home)... but I just don't know if this is the move for me to make given how fragile AV11/10/10 and 2 hull points can be... perhaps I'd be better with a monat battlesuit?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

[Chicop76]

Let me start with I will just nit pick on what I see. Mainly in the direction you are going. However I might make suggestions on differant units. Howeve I like people to keep what they like over getting differant units.

1. HQ: personally I like the buff HQ over the Drone bs HQ. If I go 4 missiles I would like at least skyfire with him. You lack skyfire and 4 missiles, skyfire, slot would be nice. Maybe on a second commander that may have intercept as well. Instead of intercept I would get target lock and have him tag with your drones.

With your current HQ. I think FNP wouldn't be a bad ideal if you plan to take one for the team and a sheild generator. Obvious you would want a drone controller. The problem turns into you only have one slot, but he is durable enoughto last several rounds of shooting to keep your drones alive. I have taking advatage of bs 5, but I rather the durability over the 4 bs 5 hits. If you join the other character, or take him. I would go with the ignore cover and puretide chip.

Personally I rather you take a bodyguard with 6 marker drones. That way you can get more fire power and cheaper drones all rolled into one. Also you can have a bodyguard take your hits rather a commander. Adding the suits give you more options that's all.

2. Elites: I learned with a strength 9 ordance barrage shot at ap 2 they really don't have trouble penning any land vehicle except a landraider or monolith. In some cases you can just throw 3 smash atacks at it if you need it dead. Not to mention if you take the twin fusion gun.

With 2 riptides you can deal with armour 14. I dealt with Russ Spam far better than I expected.

3. Troops

I think your devilfish should take the ignore cover upgrade. Even though it's a skimmer you want options.

More troops wouldn't hurt

4. Fast

I am thinking the flyer. Honestly it's not bad and it gives you sky fire marker lights and drones with intectept and skfire on them that can detach. It can take pop shots on any unit that enters the game via reserve and still have other weapons it can use. For an added bonus you get seekers and skyfire marker lights. If I had the money I would get this

5. Heavy

Skyray:
A. Has 6 missles which any marker light bearer can put up to use
B. Have bs 4 marker lights
C. Has skyfire which you really lack

2 railheads??? I think one is enough. Personally I would drop the 2nd head for a skyray. Heck I'm thinking 3 skyrays would be awesome. Anyway a ion head gives you more options. With 2 railguns and 2 riptides I think you too focused on armor 14.

[BigToof]

I'm actually a bit worried that you have no anti-flyer to speak of.

Giving some sort of velocity tracker to either Riptide might help, as they can definitely do some damage if they get within shooting range of the planes.

I'm also a bit pensive on you having a lone Devilfish in your list, as it seems to scream "SHOOT ALL MISSILES AT ME" as everything else in your army is so sturdy (minus the pathfinders and kroot).

I've only seen the Krootox being really useful if taken with a LOT of markerlight support, as they just seem to fail otherwise, as they are only BS3, and firing the equivalent of an autocannon.  With their low Leadership, the Kroot really do run pretty easily, and if you put too many points into them, you will be disappointed with what they will do.

I'd advise lowering your Kroot investment and perhaps getting either Broadsides or Plasma Rifle Crisis Suits.

HYMP Broadsides with Skyfire will help a lot with your anti-air and Crisis Suits work really well with four AP2 shots at close range.

With a little markerlight support, those Suits can be erasing entire Space Marine squads (happened to me recently in one of my Batreps).

Hope this helps!

Best,
-BT

[Carrelio]

Thanks for the comments guys, allow me to discuss some of the points raised.

The HQ: He's literally only the way he is to act as a support character for the marker drones.  Honestly, I wouldn't even take a Shas'O if I wasn't taking marker drones who needed ballistic support, there are just better options out there for the points than an over inflated crisis suit (just look at Shadowsun, 135 points of amazing upgrade character).  That said, despite him just being a tag along for the drone team, I wanted him to at least do something on his own, and I tried to make that something as useful as possible, so he's geared up as though he were a monat anti-transport battlesuit. He's got solid range, and lots of high strength shots, and a BS of 5 to hit with them. That's the only reason he is the way he is.  I would like to give him more things, and branch out into more utility, but with only the 4 slots, I can't fit any other wargear without losing something else, and I wouldn't know what to drop.  2 missiles is a lot less threatening than 4 (exactly half as threatening in fact), without the target lock he's stuck shooting what the drone squad shoots (which will not always be the target of choice for missile pods... and usually wont be), and without the drone controller the whole thing is pointless and I might as well take a different warlord entirely (like my lady Shadowsun... mmm dat Shadowsun...)

Riptides: The riptide is a great anti-meq/teq and even transport monstrosity.  It's expensive, but it soaks up a lot of damage for the rest of the army, and if it hits one of its intended targets, that target is gone.  I wouldn't say it has an easy time against AV13+; if you recall the analysis I ran a few weeks back on Tau's options for anti-tank, the riptide is actually among the worst AV13+ options because the novacharge has such a high rate to backfire before you even roll to get hot, hit, penetrate, and damage.  Having them gallivant through an enemy's tanks using smash attacks is the better option, obviously, but it's less than ideal in my opinion.  All that said, yes, riptides are nice.

Flyers: I initially went into the new codex with a knee-jerk 'doom all the flyers' attitude.  And then the flyers just never came.  I spent tons of points at 20 points a model (and the bomber and the skyray), and a lot of armies got around it by simply not bringing anything that needed to worry about those anti-air units (so I would start games 100 points down).  Then, on the other end of the spectrum, I'd run into an army that just yelled "all the flyers!" and despite having sunk 60-120 points in velocity trackers into taking them down, they just saturated the board and my broadsides, deathrains, skyrays, and sunshark just couldn't keep up with real flyer spam (it was actually the daemons flying circus that caused me the most trouble).  In the end, I decided I could do without the anti-air because the only time I could actually down the flyers was when I could typically ignore them anyways.  I could swap out the early warning override on the riptides for velocity trackers... but it's making an already expensive and difficult to hide unit that much more expensive.  I could also take a deathrain with velocity tracker with my leftover points?

As for the Tau bomber.  I have never seen a unit perform so badly in all my days of 40k.  This is in part to some abysmal rolling... but the rolling was so bad that I decided it needs to take a break and let the dice recover before I run it again.  Up until this past list in fact, I have been running a sunshark instead of the second riptide.  I played about 12 games with it... and every single game, it would come on reliably on turn 2, unload everything (drop a bomb, fire the twin-linked missiles, fire the overcharged blasts on the drones, fire the markerlight, fire a seeker missile, use somebody else's markerlight to fire another seeker missile) and doing this time and time again... my best result was to glance a venom. Now I know the sunshark cannot be that bad... it isn't good... on paper its still hardly the best around (nearly 200 points for a squad of flying fire warriors and a couple missile drones?)... and it's certainly not winning any prizes as far as flyers go (hell turkey!)... but the issue with my particular sunshark is that for whatever reason it appears to be cursed.  So until it gets over its issues, I've just got to take a break from it (not the best reason... but reason enough to try something else for a bit). If the replacement riptide does just as badly it can slot back in there.

Devilfish: I've got one for each fire warrior squad (2), and 2 other vehicles, along with 2 monstrous creatures and a T5 warlord, I don't think the devilfish has to worry about being a missile magnet by standing out in the field.  So far, since the beginning of 5th edition until now, I've only had one time where I said "damn, I wish I brought sensor spines" (my devilfish crashed in my only way out of a choke point, trapping all my units in a small area with terminators closing in), 5 points isn't a bad investment, to make sure it never happens, but it's pretty situational and assumes I'm going to be forced to land in a lot of terrain; a problem which is further reduced by warlord traits like dust of a thousand worlds (amazing when you get it).

Troops: 3 is enough at 1750.  It would be too few without the devilfish, but with them (despite being a little more fragile than they were last month) I should typically have 2 troop choices left alive by turn 5-7 or else have been tabled; in either case the additional troop choices won't be much help.

Heavy support: The skyray.  This was another let down off of paper.  And this one wasn't even because of bad rolling.  It just isn't as good as the praise it's getting would suggest; it's literally exactly what it says on the tin and not a penny more.  I brought it to my first 4 games... and just left feeling underwhelmed every time.  It survived half the battles, but even when it survived, it was just 130 points of... meh... It can't move and shoot, so it basically becomes an AV13 fortification with 2 markerlights and 6 missiles (meaning my mechanized army leaves it behind when they drive away to avoid combat).  Half the time, flyers would come on and wreck it so that it wouldn't shoot them next turn (no interceptor), and the other half of the time it would do it's job and fire off those 6 seekers (usually as an alphastrike against armies without flyers)... and then just be very expensive pair of BS4 markerlights for the rest of the game.
The second hammerhead (an ionhead) outperformed it in a heartbeat.  However, I found it was overkill between it and the riptide basically going after the same targets.  With a second riptide joining the team, I had enough S7-8 AP2 to more than make up for the ionhead, so I switched it to a railhead to patch up the holes in my AV13+, while still providing me with the blast to take down GEQ.

Between the two hammerheads and the sniper drones, I don't have room in the heavy support slot for broadsides... and I'm not sure if the broadsides will pull their weight more than a hammerhead in this list due to immobility and 'short' range. They didn't wow me as much as the ionhead did for the games I have brought them (85 points a pop in anti-flyer mode is a lot for what they bring to the table; 4 immobile 36" twin-linked S7 shots...).

[Carrelio]

So taking advice from around the internet and compiling it, here's the new list.  It basically fills out that sniper drone team, and swaps out the EWO on the riptides for velocity trackers to give me some anti-air.  There's also been a lot of rumbling about the Shas'O... but I don't know how I'd actually change him while still letting him do his job.  Here's the new list:

HQ:
Shas'O – 177 points
-   2 missile pods
-   Target lock
-   Drone controller
-   Iridium armour
-   2 marker drones

Elites:
Riptide – 240 points
-   Ion accelerator
-   Twin-linked fusion blaster
-   Stimulant injector
-   Velocity tracker

Riptide – 240 points
-   Ion accelerator
-   Twin-linked fusion blaster
-   Stimulant injector
-   Velocity tracker

Troops:
10 Fire warriors – 114 points
-   Pulse rifles
-   2 gun drones
Devilfish – 95 points
-   Disruption pod

10 Fire warriors – 114 points
-   Pulse rifles
-   2 gun drones
Devilfish – 95 points
-   Disruption pod

10 kroot – 125 points
-   10 sniper ammunition
-   1 kroot hound
-   2 krootox riders

Fast attack:
4 Marker drones – 56 points

Heavy Support:
Hammerhead – 145 points
-   Railgun
-   Submunition rounds
-   Smart missiles
-   Disruption pods
-   Blacksun filter

Hammerhead – 146 points
-   Railgun
-   Submunition rounds
-   Smart missiles
-   Disruption pods
-   Blacksun filter

Sniper Drone Team – 174 points
-   3 firesight marksmen
-   9 sniper drones

[The Man They Call Jayne]

If you have the point, get one of those Railhead and introduce it to Commander Longstrike. If you need something armoured dead, he will do it. BS5 AND Tank Hunter, he will shred any armour you see, and should you need to use the Submunition, his BS will go along way towards negating Scatter. He can also Overwatch and provide supporting fire.

He is an essential cost in my list, although I do use an Ionhead over the rails as I rely on Fusion for my AT stuff.

[Carrelio]

I have two issues with longstrike.

The first is that he turns the hammerhead into quite an expensive beasty which takes away from the other stuff I can bring to the table.  He's certainly worth it on paper (haven't tried him in the field)... but he paints a big red X on the hammerhead you put him in, meaning he's in for quite the pummeling.  Still probably worth it if one has the points...

But my other issue is much more significant.  My local GW insists on the use of the longstrike model if you want to use longstrike in the store.  Having early on said "who in the hell would be poking their head out of their tank in the 40K universe?!" I glued all my hammerhead hatches shut... So now to use longstrike in the store I'd need to buy a whole new hammerhead... which just isn't going to happen... so... sorrow of sorrows, longstike isn't on the menu.

[The Man They Call Jayne]

Well should you ever get to that stage, Giving him a D-Pod and parking him in good cover, or even better, fighting at night, will give him a good enough save, and you should have the weapons availiable to remove any weapons that pose a major threat.

The only thing I am unsure about with the D-Pod is if it works against barrage weapons. If you are targetted or if they scatter on to you. Basilisks have done more damage to him that most things ever manage.

[knightperson]

Why would the d-pod NOT work against barrage? It no longer has a range requirement like the old one did, so there's no argument that the hole of the blast is less than 12" away from the tank. The disruption pod gives +1 to any cover save, so you would always have a 4+ jink if the vehicle moved. I guess a stationary one wouldn't get a save if the blast was lobbed over a wall that the vehicle was hiding behind.

[The Man They Call Jayne]

Because you don't get a save against barrage unless you are in area terrain.

[Carrelio]

The rule doesn't say you don't get saves, it simply states that cover as given based on the epicenter of the blast.  If you dropped a blast on a unit of fire warriors with a wall between them that hit warriors on both side of the wall, but had the center on only one side, then half would get no cover, and half would get the cover save from the wall (3+ or 4+).  The case for skimmers is different because it is their movement that generates the save, so even if the blast were to land directly on top of them in theory they would still get a cover save because they have been granted cover from the inside out.

[Chicop76]

The rule doesn't say you don't get saves, it simply states that cover as given based on the epicenter of the blast.  If you dropped a blast on a unit of fire warriors with a wall between them that hit warriors on both side of the wall, but had the center on only one side, then half would get no cover, and half would get the cover save from the wall (3+ or 4+).  The case for skimmers is different because it is their movement that generates the save, so even if the blast were to land directly on top of them in theory they would still get a cover save because they have been granted cover from the inside out.

That is correct

[The Man They Call Jayne]

It's the in theory bit that causes the issue. The Barrage rules say you cannot take cover from them unless in area terrain. Jink is a cover save granted from manuvering at high speed.

If you were targetted with the weapons, you could argue that you are hard to hit and so get a save, but if the weapon randomly happens to scatter or flip, you can't say that because you were hit by chance.

The rule is not clear either way like it used to be. The weapon was more than 12", ergo, coversave, now it just says you get a save of X, and Barrage denies it because you are not in Area Terrain.

[Carrelio]

Where are you seeing that you cannot take cover from barrage weapons? The rule states that cover is sorted from the center of the blast outwards, nothing more.  This means that in most cases where models are behind cover, you are ignoring it because you are actually hitting them from inside that cover, but it says nothing about ignoring cover saves if the unit does get cover from the attack.

[knightperson]

The only way cover saves against barrage weapons are different from cover saves against anything else is regarding cover saves that are based on line of sight. The line of sight is counted as originating from the center hole in the blast marker rather than from the model that fired the shot. Cover saves based on motion and being hard to hit (like Jink) still work, as do cover saves based on psychic powers (whoever that Blood Angel guy is), abilities (Nurgle cloud of flies or Eldar warlock Conceal), universal special rules (Stealth and Shrouding), or anything else that just grants a cover save. They only barrage or blast weapons that deny all cover saves are flame templates or those that have the Ignores Cover rule. The only examples I can think of outside of Apocalypse's Strength D are the Tau airbursting fragmentation projector and the Space Marines thunderfire cannon.