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The Return of Tzeentch!

Started by Chicop76, June 04, 2013, 03:11:09 AM

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Chicop76

I been looking over my options and strongly thinking of going back to heavy Tzeentch. One issue I am having is these two possible builds.

A I like my hearlds, if I go this route I can pump out a lot of shots per squad. I am looking at 11 man horrors: 3d6 shots and a master 3 herald for a total of 7d6 shots. I am thinking about 25 strength 6 shots on average with this set up. Also I am upgrading a herald to have the benefit of possibly getting 2 shooting attacks from the lesser gifts. Have to see if I can shoot the attacks or have to do the 3d6. Hopefully I can do both. Also might get 2 lesser for my herald for the same reason. It will give me other shooting options

As my other hq I am thinking lord of change for diviation and maybe a third tzeentch hearld for deviation as well.

I am thinking of running two squads like this. With other stuff in the works.

B. I run two greater daemons. Which if I do I will just run slaanesh as troops. Also this means I will run a prince. This build I am thinking Fateweaver and a Lord of Change with a prince as a heavy and two skull cannons. I will say insert the rest.

A. Gives me lots of options. Here I can choose to have a decent amount of gifts and dish out a ton of shooting.

B. Is differant where I am taking a prince and a loc to hopefully get riftbringer and for the grimore of true names. If I don't get bringer I may get the glyph depending on objectives and maybe the super combat sword. Although can't complain about getting more wounds or rage and rampage.

I ran a list similar to b and it done really well. I had acess to all power types from the main book and Tzeentch. Oh I missed out on telekenesis. Anyway my tzeentch prince will max out on biomancy unless he lucks out and get iron arm and endurance which at tha point he will do diviation or telepathy. It all depends on fateweaver and what my loc have.

B is easy 950 points and with two skull cannons roughly 1200 points. That will leave me 650 points on troops. I am thinking of 3 10 man daemonette squads, maybe 2 15 man. And 20 hounds.

With B you will have 20 hounds and three flying creatures in your face at game start. The daemonettes can catch up in turn two. With my two skull cannons as support.

List A will have 1 MC 4 heralds 2 11 man horror squads, 20 man damonette squad. Grinder, 2 skullcannon and some hounds.


Waaaghpower

Yes, please. Give my models all amazing FNP.
Against high toughness squads, this list will not do well. Orks or Marines will pass toughness tests fairly often and get feel no pain that you don't want them to have.
Super Mario 3D World is The. Best. Thing.

Chicop76

Quote from: Waaaghpower on June 07, 2013, 12:48:58 PM
Yes, please. Give my models all amazing FNP.
Against high toughness squads, this list will not do well. Orks or Marines will pass toughness tests fairly often and get feel no pain that you don't want them to have.

I played against those list and blasted the squads away before. I just give an example of what my older unit use to do.

2 heralds of tzeentch and 20 horrors usually have diviation from fate or prince. That's 12d6 shots. For a max of 60 shots. 25 shots would hit on average, honestly it is more, but I reduce to be generous. 42 out put is average with 34 hitting. I think I will go with 34. All the hit wound on 2s. That means 29 dead orcks or 10 dead space marines, or 5 dead terminators.

The only time I ever gave fnp like candy was when I just took 11 man horror squads and that was it. The extra herald shooting at strength 6 makes a huge differance. Either I am blowing away squads are severly lowering the squads numbers. +6 fnp is almost like you don't have FNP and the next volly will wipe that unit.

What people misunderstand is you do not just get feel no pain. You have to sit and wait unti the shooting phase is over. If for example I was running squads of 1 herald and 16 horrors that' 7d6 shots per squad at strength 6 with re rolling to hit. I can take 4 squads of that. Throw in flamers as well for fun.

If palying against orcs I can asily wipe whole units of the board with ease. Against marines they will be making a lot of saves.

After shooting is done and who isn't dead will have a toughness check. Orcks and Marines have to roll 4 or lower or they take more wounds, killingoff the squad usually, or they finally get feel no pain.

It's only an issue if a unit has Feel No Pain already on it. Against those units I have to pour a lot of shooting at them first to make sure I wipe them out. Also I have beam attacks that deny saves, worked well killing terminators with feel no pain.


The major problem I have with using Tzeentch is two problems.
1. Low rate of fire is actually helpful against some units. That's why 16 and master 3 herald is good for 8d6 shots. + 1 feel no pain is not a big deal, you just have to kill off the squad next volly

2. Deny the witch rolls. Even a 6+ is hurtful which meansi am losing out on 4d6 attacks. Greyknights are a pain due to +5 deny. Even so I don't target units with psychic power unless I have too with + 4 deny or better.

Trust me when I say it's a lot of shooting. If max out with horror and hearld in 4 squads that's 32d6 strength 6 shots. That's a max of 192 strength 6 ap 2 shots you have to survive through. It's roughly costing me 1000 points for that output. That is minus 850 other points I can throw at you.