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Author Topic: Space Marines First Impressions  (Read 12696 times)

Offline The Man They Call Jayne

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Re: Space Marines First Impressions
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2013, 10:19:25 pm »
I would like it if I could get an support system for my broadsides that would allow me to deal with AV 14 tanks.  If they would make something like this:

Enhanced Capacitors (20pt):  A broadside equipped with enhanced capacitors changes the profile of heavy rail rifles to Heavy 1, Lance.

I don't get why they couldn't just keep the S10 Railguns as an option.
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Offline KCKitsune

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Re: Space Marines First Impressions
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2013, 03:05:04 pm »
Most likely they wanted to get rid of the insta-gibbing of Daemon Princes and other Toughness 5 units.  Think about the new Centurions... with a Str 10 railgun they would be expensive targets.
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Offline Rarity Declis

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Re: Space Marines First Impressions
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2013, 11:57:52 am »
I think it's more "Why take a Hammerhead?" which is weaker with Hull Points when you can take 3, Str 10 Broadsides in a single slot instead. Now, the Hammerhead is king again... In the sense that people always take the Ion Cannon or don't take them at all.
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Offline KCKitsune

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Re: Space Marines First Impressions
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2013, 03:23:56 pm »
I think it's more "Why take a Hammerhead?" which is weaker with Hull Points when you can take 3, Str 10 Broadsides in a single slot instead. Now, the Hammerhead is king again... In the sense that people always take the Ion Cannon or don't take them at all.

A hammerhead with all the bells and whistles costs about 16 firewarriors.  Three broadsides with the fixings costs about 24 firewarriors,  Also before 6th edition nerfing Tau vehicles, they were slow as hell.  With the new rules on tanks our hammerheads are just as immobile.
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Offline salamut2202

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Re: Space Marines First Impressions
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2013, 05:20:02 pm »
I think it's more "Why take a Hammerhead?" which is weaker with Hull Points when you can take 3, Str 10 Broadsides in a single slot instead. Now, the Hammerhead is king again... In the sense that people always take the Ion Cannon or don't take them at all.

A hammerhead with all the bells and whistles costs about 16 firewarriors.  Three broadsides with the fixings costs about 24 firewarriors,  Also before 6th edition nerfing Tau vehicles, they were slow as hell.  With the new rules on tanks our hammerheads are just as immobile.
That speed thing can be said about both though. Do you know that upgrade in the 6th edition codex which allows a battle suit to become slow and purposeful? me neither.

Offline Chris

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Re: Space Marines First Impressions
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2013, 07:52:46 pm »
Ahhem.... Space Marines.... *Cough* *Splutter*

Offline KCKitsune

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Re: Space Marines First Impressions
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2013, 11:08:25 pm »
That speed thing can be said about both though. Do you know that upgrade in the 6th edition codex which allows a battle suit to become slow and purposeful? me neither.
True enough, but it is still disappointing about how nerfed our tanks became in the new codex.  I mean, why get rid of that?
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Offline Rarity Declis

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Re: Space Marines First Impressions
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2013, 02:20:09 pm »
Ahhem.... Space Marines.... *Cough* *Splutter*

Right, yes, those....

I can't believe that they cost the same, but once more, the Space Marine book is bigger than the Tau one! They could have easily stuffed the Farsight stuff in there!

Also, I was going to buy Telion and Chronus... but not now. I know they've given a lot of love to other Chapters and that's fine, but all the Ultramarines still have the most characters! Also, Black Templars can use Whirlwinds now? Sigh.

Also, can a successor Chapter from the Imperial Fists use Kantor? Because he says Crimson Fists in his rules thing, and there's the little Crimson Fist thing so he's not quite Imperial Fist because otherwise they'd just give him that symbol.

Also, the Whirlwind is cheaper, but it's still not amazing. Do they just dislike it over there? *Cough, squadrons*

Can a Tactical Squad take a Heavy Flamer? I can see no reason why not.

Despite this, it's a very good book.
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Offline The Man They Call Jayne

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Re: Space Marines First Impressions
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2013, 04:02:36 pm »
Space Marine codex is £5 more than the Tau/Eldar ones. Don't know about anywhere else though.
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Offline Rarity Declis

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Re: Space Marines First Impressions
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2013, 06:00:40 pm »
Space Marine codex is £5 more than the Tau/Eldar ones. Don't know about anywhere else though.

Woops, colour me embarrassed.
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Offline Charistoph

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Re: Space Marines First Impressions
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2013, 06:16:25 pm »
I can't believe that they cost the same, but once more, the Space Marine book is bigger than the Tau one! They could have easily stuffed the Farsight stuff in there!
Well, they did add another codex to it and Space Marines IS their biggest seller.

Also, I was going to buy Telion and Chronus... but not now. I know they've given a lot of love to other Chapters and that's fine, but all the Ultramarines still have the most characters! Also, Black Templars can use Whirlwinds now? Sigh.
And Black Templars used to have Whirlwinds in Codex: Armageddon.  Not that I think they're that great, personally.

But I totally agree on the Telion and Chronos concept.  The worst part is that they really are not well configured for Ultramarine Tactics, Telion would be AWESOME as Raven Guard, and Chronos incredible in a Iron Hands Detachment.

Also, can a successor Chapter from the Imperial Fists use Kantor? Because he says Crimson Fists in his rules thing, and there's the little Crimson Fist thing so he's not quite Imperial Fist because otherwise they'd just give him that symbol.
The only restriction is the Tactics associated with the Character.  You can have Lysander and Kantor in the same Detachment since they both use Imperial Fists Tactics, but not Kantor and Helbrecht.  The symbol next to the name is more for cute fluffy things.  But you will only have access to one of their Warlord extended Rules, though.

Can a Tactical Squad take a Heavy Flamer? I can see no reason why not.
Other than rules, no reason.  Only Sternguard can take the Heavy Flamer from the Special Weapons group.
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Offline Matt1785

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Re: Space Marines First Impressions
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2013, 09:44:16 pm »
Well, Sternguard and Legion of the Damned can take Heavy Flamers... what I think he meant was, why not Tacticals?  The answer is beyond me, would have been cool, and maybe made people want to take tacticals for... something.  They still strike me as the most boring part of the book... don't even know why they bothered re-doing the set since they're just as boring as they've always been.

My overall satisfaction with the book was 'meh'.  Not that great, not that bad, but I still think they'll be outdone by Tau.

Yeah, Dev Centurions are good, but the models are absolute garbage, and stupid looking.  Also not sold on the idea of them to be honest, Tau can get new units, they're advancing themselves, taking new steps in technology... Imperium tech is dying off, but we always find new tech somehow...

Overall the book should perform fair, but not spectacular.

Offline Chicop76

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Re: Space Marines First Impressions
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2013, 10:42:09 pm »
I am still reading the Marine dex, and hopefully I will be able to get Eldar vs Marine codex battle pretty soon. Anyway I have mixed thoughts about the book. Besides Tau this army have a really strong anti air base. Besides having to deal with flying MCs i can see Necron Flyer list having a real hard time dealing with a tank shooting, 4 strength 7 twin linked shots and a little flyer unloading lascannon death, not to mention skyfire rocket launchers.

I can say I will be leaving my flyers at home unless they are armour 12 which can shrug off some strngth 7 shots.

I think the Chapter Tactics is what is going to give some armies trouble. My personal worries so far is:
UltraMarines
WhiteScars
Salmanders
RavenGuard

The other army tactics is good, but I think these 4 really benefit almost every unit as a whole. Not to mention throwining in Specials which only multiply the tactics even more.

For example if people decided to play RavenGuard they can litterly field a huge bulk of Marines mid field. Bikes and Assault Marines can easily assault on turn 1, if the marine player goes second. if anything going first allows you to get those multi-melta shots off, flamer weapons, and be within grav weapon range. Since a troop confer scout to transports that means scouting rhinos, which means rapid firing marines possibly on turn one.

Overall i wasn't fearing Grav guns until I noticed they are concussive. Which mean I1 Bloodthirster that goes the same time as a squad of terminators with powerfist and thunder hammers. Not only that, but grav weapons on a bike squad can spell 6 grav shots that have a threat range of 36", through in pre game scout that can be upped to 48" threat range on turn one, meaning that a ravenguard army can eat your Riptides if they go first, especially if they get prescience love via Tigarius or Dark Angel libby.

Possible combinations of Centurions with Azrael for +4 invulnerable saves comes to mind as well.

I think it is a better codex. Also i think it is a more unpredictable codex as well. The ally combinations and possibilities makes the army hard to prepare for. However at the end of the day you are still facing marines. i think they will be much better, but a marine is a marine.

I also wanted to address the Centurians. I think overall they are broadside type models, or Oblits. For spacemarines I can't really picture them as a solid assault unit. For range I think they are very expensive, but durable. I see them as a range option more than an assault option.

Looking at grav weapons and how dirt cheap bikes are I will say the two obviously go well together. i wouldn't be surprised to see grav bikes as the norm. Other than that I can see grav pistols used with thunderhammers for assaulty units as a good norm as well. I doubt the grav cannon will get much use as time goes on.

On thought is to look what unit can field more than 2 grav weapons. the possibility of endurance can easily enhance the output of grav weapons. Meaning that instead of 8 shots out of a drop pod you using 12 shots due to endurance.

I think players will have to be aware of the marine chapter tactics in the future. Other than than a marine is a marine.

 

Offline KCKitsune

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Re: Space Marines First Impressions
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2013, 04:21:24 pm »
The Centurions are broadsides, but better.  They have a lascannon and missile launcher for the same cost as a broadside with a shield generator.  Sure you have a better AP weapon, the lascannon is stronger.  A SMS is good for little gibblies, but the rocket launcher is another nice vehicle killer.  The Centurion is also slow and purposeful. 
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Offline Chicop76

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Re: Space Marines First Impressions
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2013, 03:17:12 pm »
The Centurions are broadsides, but better.  They have a lascannon and missile launcher for the same cost as a broadside with a shield generator.  Sure you have a better AP weapon, the lascannon is stronger.  A SMS is good for little gibblies, but the rocket launcher is another nice vehicle killer.  The Centurion is also slow and purposeful.

I still haven't really looked at their load out yet. However thinking about it it would be rather hard to get rid of them. I just see them better taken as allies over being in a space marine type army.

Thinking about it more my Tau commander that gives deny cover and tank hunter would be rather good with those guys. Oh almost forgot about twin linked. I might drop my sides and take some marine allies with my Tau.